388 réponses à ce sujet

[Renew81]

Xenite wrote...

Angry Joe made a new video that pointed to this...



Some of the stuff I caught, but much of it I didn't. I have to say after watching this their can be no doubt that this was indoctrination and as the old man at the end says "one more story" is to come.

Everyone should see this, it clearly shows over a dozen small giveaways that this was the plan all along.

Damn you Bioware for getting us all upset! 

it doesnt show anything other then the hope for a ending that never happend in wich case me 3
doesnt have a ending at all in wich case the wildly different endings comment was all bs.

its brought forward a whole ending debacle , people have returned there copy of the game
some are outraged , some are simply dissapointed , some are happy , all in all though
i think it has done more harm then good and i dont see any logical businiss in it either
ofc iam not in the gaming industry so i might be wrong, i hope iam wrong , i hopw bioware
will prove us wrong and a real conclussion will come that gives answers and closure
i wont be a happy camper but from bioware ile take it swallow it and be happy if that would be the case.

the indoctrination theory might explain things inside the game , but it doesnt exaplain anything
outside of the game.

Also theory's , speculations and assumptions is not a ending and it should not have come that far
to begin with , should have gotten a satisfying ending already.

The end.

Maybe ? 

[tjmax]

Vlad1113 wrote...

tjmax wrote...

Xenite wrote...

Angry Joe made a new video that pointed to this...



Some of the stuff I caught, but much of it I didn't. I have to say after watching this their can be no doubt that this was indoctrination and as the old man at the end says "one more story" is to come.

Everyone should see this, it clearly shows over a dozen small giveaways that this was the plan all along.

Damn you Bioware for getting us all upset! 

AngryJoes video is speculation still and if it turns out that way then Bioware sold us an unfinished game. Buying installments in order to finish the series is pretty unethical. Would be like billing and  selling Harry Potters deadly hollows 1 as the final movie and then piecing the second movie into installment add ons.

Personally just a thought but Im pretty sure they did split Deathly Hallows into 2 when they could have done it on 1 didnt they?

You missed the point, They where two complete works, and there was no secrete they where making them that way. 
What i am saying is if they said part one was the FINAL movie. then sold you 30 min installments of 2 as supliments to it.

[sedrikhcain]

S1at3 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

S1at3 wrote...

But in the red you kill EDI.  She was hot.

VERY salient point S1, when I picked the red ribbon, losing EDI was a major downer. Can't see much win going on there if it means the galaxy moves on without, er, that.

You could never hurt Joker.  Your profile picture speaks volumes.

You would think, but I chose the destroy ending first playthrough -- my canon Shepard -- knowing it meant EDI bit the dust. Sure didn't feel like winning.

I'm reminded of a great line from the classic film "Heathers", which I'll not repeat here in the interest of decorum.

[S1at3]

The Indoctrination theory is true. Jessica Merizan said so. I just can't prove it.

[Mcfly616]

Yeah they tanked DA2(different team by the way)...I find it very hard to believe that the team that gave us ME1 and ME2, as well as 99% of ME3, just happened to tank out and fumble it away on the goal line.....no, given their reputation its far more likely in my mind that its a twist....

[CavScout]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

Just so I'm clear on this, those of you who support the indoctrination theory believe, essentially, that the Reapers won this "war" before ME3 ever even really started and everything that happens along the way of any significance never really occurred at all and existed only inside Shepard's head? Or does the hallucination begin only at the end, as a way to excuse it all away and just declare that Shepard died at the beam and, ultimately, the only thing he/she could save us all from was the horror of witnessing the final defeat of organics at the hands of the Reapers?

No.. the indoctrination theory does not state that Shepard got indoctrinated... but that he is fighting indoctrination.

Choosing Blue= You GOT indoctrinated, so fail


Choosing Green= You GOT indoctrinated, so fail


Choosing Red= You broke free from indoctrination, you won.

This is where the whole indoctrination theory fails spectacularly. If you fail to to build enough EMS before the final battle, the ONLY option you have is destroy. Why would the Reapers ONLY give you one option and the option would be to destroy them and beat indoctrination? Why does being less prepared mean 100% chance and breaking free from indoctrination? You win more easily by failing to prepare?

[sedrikhcain]

dc01 wrote...

 let's be real here for a split-second: Bioware is tremendiously good at writing stories, that's why we are all here in the first place, it makes no logical sense for their story to breakdown now. i believe the indoctrination theory and further i think Bioware clearly pre-planned this evangelion twist at the end.

I LOVE this. The ending is SO bad the the minds of many in the community simply cannot accept it. There MUST be something more. Seriously, this is awesome. Some psych major is going to get an award-winning paper out of this!

[S1at3]

CavScout wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

Just so I'm clear on this, those of you who support the indoctrination theory believe, essentially, that the Reapers won this "war" before ME3 ever even really started and everything that happens along the way of any significance never really occurred at all and existed only inside Shepard's head? Or does the hallucination begin only at the end, as a way to excuse it all away and just declare that Shepard died at the beam and, ultimately, the only thing he/she could save us all from was the horror of witnessing the final defeat of organics at the hands of the Reapers?

No.. the indoctrination theory does not state that Shepard got indoctrinated... but that he is fighting indoctrination.

Choosing Blue= You GOT indoctrinated, so fail


Choosing Green= You GOT indoctrinated, so fail


Choosing Red= You broke free from indoctrination, you won.

This is where the whole indoctrination theory fails spectacularly. If you fail to to build enough EMS before the final battle, the ONLY option you have is destroy. Why would the Reapers ONLY give you one option and the option would be to destroy them and beat indoctrination? Why does being less prepared mean 100% chance and breaking free from indoctrination? You win more easily by failing to prepare?

Your point isn't valid because it goes against the indoctrination theory.  Or at least that's what it will boil down to.

[Paragon Auducan]

Why would Bioware NOT give the default option as the only one capable of using in a DLC.

You can die in 2 BUT that's obviously not 'canon' or 3 doesn't even exist.

Modifié par Paragon Auducan, 21 mars 2012 - 02:19 .

[Myskal1981]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Yeah they tanked DA2(different team by the way)...I find it very hard to believe that the team that gave us ME1 and ME2, as well as 99% of ME3, just happened to tank out and fumble it away on the goal line.....no, given their reputation its far more likely in my mind that its a twist....

I respectfully disagree, because I cannot believe that they would risk losing money for a twist and a prank. They are a company after all.

[MadRabbit999]

sedrikhcain wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

Just so I'm clear on this, those of you who support the indoctrination theory believe, essentially, that the Reapers won this "war" before ME3 ever even really started and everything that happens along the way of any significance never really occurred at all and existed only inside Shepard's head? Or does the hallucination begin only at the end, as a way to excuse it all away and just declare that Shepard died at the beam and, ultimately, the only thing he/she could save us all from was the horror of witnessing the final defeat of organics at the hands of the Reapers?

No.. the indoctrination theory does not state that Shepard got indoctrinated... but that he is fighting indoctrination.

Choosing Blue= You GOT indoctrinated, so fail


Choosing Green= You GOT indoctrinated, so fail


Choosing Red= You broke free from indoctrination, you won.

OK, so the idea is that all the choices he has to make are real but the "AI" speaking to him is granting him false information? The citadel, the crucible, all of it, but the catalyst is just an indoctrination-related hallucination?

If that's the case, then why do we see, for example, Joker as a "synthesized" organic after the green ending? Is the idea that we see the real fate of the Normandy in the "winning" ending" but Shepard's hallucinations in all the others?

Yes that is what people who beleive in indoc are saying..

I think peoplespeculate that what you see after, it is only a mean to make shepard believe that he is still in control of the situation.

When you dream, you see things happening even when you are not there,  as if you were watching a movie...

I am jsut palying Devil's Advocate here.

[realguile]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

realguile wrote...

Sorry guys. I'm not super sad about the ending or anything but could someone please explain the indoctrination ending/theory to me in simple terms and why it makes sense? I hated the ME3 ending but I'll still live. lol I'm not holding the line or anything I'm just curious about why people are thinking the things they are.

It sounds interesting but I don't think bioware is at Kojima level trolling their fans with their IPs. lol

If this is legitimatized, I imagine would we begin the DLC immediately following the blast from Harbinger. Someone, perhaps the squad, could find Shepard buried within the rumble. We then discover everything that happened thereafter in ME3 was indoctrination. The only hiccup would be for players who chose Control or Synthesis because this would make those both a "Shepard loses" option.

i c....


other than the ending I loved the game so if this helps get more stuff to play then I guess it's alright.....

[Neophoenix 78]

Drake-Shepard wrote...

Neophoenix 78 wrote...

Paragon Auducan wrote...

realguile wrote...

Sorry guys. I'm not super sad about the ending or anything but could someone please explain the indoctrination ending/theory to me in simple terms and why it makes sense? I hated the ME3 ending but I'll still live. lol I'm not holding the line or anything I'm just curious about why people are thinking the things they are.

It sounds interesting but I don't think bioware is at Kojima level trolling their fans with their IPs. lol

Revan
Sovereign is Reaper
Master is evil

etc

They are RENOWNED for this kind of thing.

Mass Effect 1 Soverign is Reaper.
Mass Effect 2 Collectors are Prothean.
Mass Effect 3 Possible Idoctrination.
Dragon Age 1 Loghain is a traitor.
Dragon Age 2 Anders goes Supernova.
KOTOR     You are Revan.
KOTOR2  Foget but I remember there was something about that game too. Heard there was a lot of story cut that would have made it a complete story. Sound familiar? Could be wrong on this one though.
Only difference in ME3 you cannot do anything about it with the disc you bought on launch date without DLC.

ME1 You blow up Soverign. Either save council or human fleets.
ME2 You blow up Colletor Base. Well this just is stupid either way TIM gets Proto Reaper.
ME3 You look at faceless armor move and fight amongst yourselves.
DA1 You can choose to forgive Loghain and lose Alistair
DA2. You side with Anders and kill Templars or you Kill Anders and side with Templar.
KOTOR. You Become Revan and take power back from Malak or you kill Malak and your redemntion begins.

Everything but ME3 has closure. They have done the 'Its A Twist" in most of their games. But that twist ends up being something important and you have closure and you see your effect. In ME3 you get... well an uproar and the fans fighting it out while everyone else is silent. All the while people are getting refunds on Amazon. Like I said previously. Backfire either way.

woww...
..but this won't convince the non-believers... they will just state it was rushed and they are all smarter then BW writers ..yada yada yada

Well to be honest KOTOR 2 was rushed. And that game was subpar when compared with KOTOR. I played through KOTOR a couple of times. With KOTOR 2 it felt like something was gone. But in all my other examples they at least finish what they were doing in that game.

ME1 Save council or not.  Udina or Anderson.  ME3  Alliance Fleets worth more or less. Destiny Ascension yes or no. Udina will always be the representitive.  You find out in ME your end game in ME1 is virtually worthless. Rachni Queen also in this branch.

ME2 Destroy Collector Base or Not.  ME 3 TIM gets Proto Reaper either way. Besides getting cameos and war support very little effect on ME 3

ME3 you see all of your choices are either for War Support or they are manipulated in such a way for their game. Liara will always be Broker. Shep will always survive the "suicide" mission in ME2.

At least in the ME games you think you really have an impact on what will happen. And you do not. All of the other twists in previous games work on the thought that how you handled these situations were to make drastic changes. But you find out in 3 this is not the case. 3 has no real closure as with all of the other games. It is sad the beginning and the middle of a trilogy offers more answers than the ending.  I do not mind twists. But twists to have twists and to not change anything is horrible. If you like that.. go see the Villiage. I am sure you will like that twist.

As for Dragon Age after you get the twist you see how things occur after it. DA you lose a Warden but keep another. That is up to you. That effects DA2.

DA2 you can either kill Anders and go after Mages or save Anders and go for Templars. It does not end when Anders turns on you.

ME3 makes a twist and ends it before the effect of the twist is shown. It is not really a this way or that way. It is either unfinished and will anger people. Notice Amazon giving refunds. or it is finished and it fails horribly on its twist because they do not fully show how everything effects the people you interacted with via your decisions. Shows 3 crash lands with limited difference and 1 where a faceless body twitches. All of their other twist titles and really that is a vast majority of Bioware titles at least have closure on the disc with their twists.

So take it as bocthed writing. Or botched PR department. But something went horrible wrong for this to be happening. But then again any attention is good attention right? What better way to indocrtrinate people to pay for DLC

Modifié par Neophoenix 78, 21 mars 2012 - 02:30 .

[S1at3]

OH MAN, IF YOU WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE CREDITS, YOU'RE ALIVE AND BACK ON THE NORMANDY!

[milkymcmilkerson]

The more I think about it, the more I have to agree with the TC. I mean, compared to the rest of the series, the ending was too loose and sloppy to be written by the same team that wrote the rest of the Mass Effect trilogy. If ME3 was a mess as a whole, then I'd be less inclined to think the logistical problems at the end were by design, but the game is so spot on when it comes to narrative that I can't help but think that the mistakes and plot holes at the end (the relays not wiping out the galaxy when they explode, the whole weirdness about the Normandy and how everyone even got on board the ship) had to have been intentional.

[MadRabbit999]

CavScout wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

Just so I'm clear on this, those of you who support the indoctrination theory believe, essentially, that the Reapers won this "war" before ME3 ever even really started and everything that happens along the way of any significance never really occurred at all and existed only inside Shepard's head? Or does the hallucination begin only at the end, as a way to excuse it all away and just declare that Shepard died at the beam and, ultimately, the only thing he/she could save us all from was the horror of witnessing the final defeat of organics at the hands of the Reapers?

No.. the indoctrination theory does not state that Shepard got indoctrinated... but that he is fighting indoctrination.

Choosing Blue= You GOT indoctrinated, so fail


Choosing Green= You GOT indoctrinated, so fail


Choosing Red= You broke free from indoctrination, you won.

This is where the whole indoctrination theory fails spectacularly. If you fail to to build enough EMS before the final battle, the ONLY option you have is destroy. Why would the Reapers ONLY give you one option and the option would be to destroy them and beat indoctrination? Why does being less prepared mean 100% chance and breaking free from indoctrination? You win more easily by failing to prepare?

Then why only when your EMS is ful lyuo see Shepard live?

PErhaps it was done to give you more of a challenge if you bothered completing the whoel game, while if you done it half assed is not liek you would have cared of choosing that either.

There is no proof to either indoc or non-indoc, so please do not state things that have no foundations.

I am not staing indoc to be true.. but only as a possibility, as much as the designers sucked pretty bad as the other possibility.

[Purple People Eater]

There is more than enough evidence to completely support the indoctrination theory. Its more than just the end game. The very first scene of ME3 is the beginning of it. The truly ridiculous thing is that a lot of people think Bioware just accidentally backed into this situation. As if indoctrination wasn't their intention all along, but now that it appears to be whats happening they're just going to run with it because thats what everyone believes.. Im at about 99% in my opinion on the subject, and im even more sure that all will be explained in the near future through DLC.

Its indoctrination. Everything points to it, and the proof is in the pudding throughout the entire game, not to mention the explanations in the codex. If it turns out not to be indoctrination, then...yeah, bad call on the ending, but I refuse to believe Bioware just piecemealed an ending onto what is perhaps their most popular franchise ever. There's a plan here, we just have to wait for it to come to fruition.

[Paragon Auducan]

MIND BLOWN

Bioware said the best ending is possible without Multiplayer.....that's because it's the default one and the only one you are able to use to continue Shepard's story and fight the Reapers.

[Aiyie]

RLesueur wrote...

Yup, pretty soon we'll have re-take Omega DLC.

And then we'll all be sorry we doubted Indoctrination Theory.

just a quick thought here.

i can't speak for others, but im pretty sure indoc was never intentional.  that said, its very possible bioware will adopt it and use it as a convenient plot device that already exists in order to give us a new ending, without having to get rid of what they already spent the time and money making.

if im right, and indoc was never intentional, i wouldn't be the least bit surprised if omega dlc did get released first.

they obviously had a post-relase marketing plan, which probably included omega dlc.  that dlc was probably being worked on long before release day.  in a nuthshell, they're already working on omega, and didn't anticipate the vitriol about the ending.  they'll finish with omega, then devote the resources that were dedicated to omega to a new ending.

if they're smart, since they're going to probably ask us to pay for ending dlc, since its not free to make, they'll bundle it with the omega dlc, release it a little later than originally intended, and and have it included with the ending dlc package.

[Neophoenix 78]

Purple People Eater wrote...

There is more than enough evidence to completely support the indoctrination theory. Its more than just the end game. The very first scene of ME3 is the beginning of it. The truly ridiculous thing is that a lot of people think Bioware just accidentally backed into this situation. As if indoctrination wasn't their intention all along, but now that it appears to be whats happening they're just going to run with it because thats what everyone believes.. Im at about 99% in my opinion on the subject, and im even more sure that all will be explained in the near future through DLC.

Its indoctrination. Everything points to it, and the proof is in the pudding throughout the entire game, not to mention the explanations in the codex. If it turns out not to be indoctrination, then...yeah, bad call on the ending, but I refuse to believe Bioware just piecemealed an ending onto what is perhaps their most popular franchise ever. There's a plan here, we just have to wait for it to come to fruition.

Might be a plan but not a good one. It would be like getting to World 8 in Super Mario Brothers and beating Bowser. Except there was no Bowser but Toad saying, "I'm sorry but our Princess is in another DLC." Oh really well then I hope she can find a way out herself because I am through jumping through pipes for this garbage.

This is what I do not get. You refuse to believe bad writing but being manipulated from release date of ME3 is okay and we have to wait for the manipulation to be over? 

Modifié par Neophoenix 78, 21 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[S1at3]

TIM could be one of Shepard's other personalities.

[thegame30]

The indoctrination Theory could be the one but who knows at this point really? Now the Reaper indoctrination codex is clear uses Insidious means. In other words Insidious means to act in a evil way to carry out something with no intentions of the outcome being good. It could be a plan that you want to carry out, but you do it in a devilish way to get what you want.

[Turbotanden]

S1at3 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

Just so I'm clear on this, those of you who support the indoctrination theory believe, essentially, that the Reapers won this "war" before ME3 ever even really started and everything that happens along the way of any significance never really occurred at all and existed only inside Shepard's head? Or does the hallucination begin only at the end, as a way to excuse it all away and just declare that Shepard died at the beam and, ultimately, the only thing he/she could save us all from was the horror of witnessing the final defeat of organics at the hands of the Reapers?

No.. the indoctrination theory does not state that Shepard got indoctrinated... but that he is fighting indoctrination.

Choosing Blue= You GOT indoctrinated, so fail


Choosing Green= You GOT indoctrinated, so fail


Choosing Red= You broke free from indoctrination, you won.

This is where the whole indoctrination theory fails spectacularly. If you fail to to build enough EMS before the final battle, the ONLY option you have is destroy. Why would the Reapers ONLY give you one option and the option would be to destroy them and beat indoctrination? Why does being less prepared mean 100% chance and breaking free from indoctrination? You win more easily by failing to prepare?

Your point isn't valid because it goes against the indoctrination theory.  Or at least that's what it will boil down to.

It is quite obvious that with low enough EMS there is no need for an indoctrinated Shepard. And that is why the boy says "Why are you here?" instead of "Wake up" and why you don't wake up in the end. You died, sorry.

[realguile]

sedrikhcain wrote...

dc01 wrote...

 let's be real here for a split-second: Bioware is tremendiously good at writing stories, that's why we are all here in the first place, it makes no logical sense for their story to breakdown now. i believe the indoctrination theory and further i think Bioware clearly pre-planned this evangelion twist at the end.

I LOVE this. The ending is SO bad the the minds of many in the community simply cannot accept it. There MUST be something more. Seriously, this is awesome. Some psych major is going to get an award-winning paper out of this!

lol

After getting my answer I agree with you....

Reminds me how I kept plaing DA2 in the hope that I would unlock a new area to explore if I kept playing....in the end...well we all know how that ended right?

[Neophoenix 78]

dc01 wrote...

 let's be real here for a split-second: Bioware is tremendiously good at writing stories, that's why we are all here in the first place, it makes no logical sense for their story to breakdown now. i believe the indoctrination theory and further i think Bioware clearly pre-planned this evangelion twist at the end.

Actually I believe the previous writings were why we bought the game. The horrible ending is now why we are all here in the first place

Modifié par Neophoenix 78, 21 mars 2012 - 02:52 .