388 réponses à ce sujet

[MadRabbit999]

CavScout wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

With low EMS the only option is to destroy the Reapers. So the Reapers indoctrinate Shep to kill them off...

Since they have tryed shooting at  you for the past 3 years and failed... maybe it is time to stop trying shooting Shepard, but instead destroying his mind?

If Indoctrination is true. .then Shepard is NOT in the Citadel, he is just fighting a mental battle... and wins it...  The destruction of th ereapers it is only the consequences of the Crucibel reaching its destination and working on its own, without any need to activate panels on the Citadel.

What? Why would the worse you do per-assault make it easier to "win" using the Indoc theory? Why does preparing better, gathering the galaxy's inhabitants to confront the Reapers make it harder to pick the "win" ending? Do the reapers feel sorry for you if you suck and just let you win?

This can be up to game mechanics: You did not bother playing the game, then we do not bother showing you more endings since you are just rushing through...

Having more options unlocked, means, that even if you picked the red one.. which is the one you coudl get anyways.. still changes its outcome, to give you again 3 choices instead of only 2 new ones...

Once more, Sheaprd only survives when you get the best EMS.

[Pathero]

CavScout wrote...

Turbotanden wrote...

S1at3 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

This is where the whole indoctrination theory fails spectacularly. If you fail to to build enough EMS before the final battle, the ONLY option you have is destroy. Why would the Reapers ONLY give you one option and the option would be to destroy them and beat indoctrination? Why does being less prepared mean 100% chance and breaking free from indoctrination? You win more easily by failing to prepare?

Your point isn't valid because it goes against the indoctrination theory.  Or at least that's what it will boil down to.

It is quite obvious that with low enough EMS there is no need for an indoctrinated Shepard. And that is why the boy says "Why are you here?" instead of "Wake up" and why you don't wake up in the end. You died, sorry.

With low EMS the only option is to destroy the Reapers. So the Reapers indoctrinate Shep to kill them off...

With low EMS Shep dies on the planet anyway.

[Erethrian]

Pathero wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Turbotanden wrote...

S1at3 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

This is where the whole indoctrination theory fails spectacularly. If you fail to to build enough EMS before the final battle, the ONLY option you have is destroy. Why would the Reapers ONLY give you one option and the option would be to destroy them and beat indoctrination? Why does being less prepared mean 100% chance and breaking free from indoctrination? You win more easily by failing to prepare?

Your point isn't valid because it goes against the indoctrination theory.  Or at least that's what it will boil down to.

It is quite obvious that with low enough EMS there is no need for an indoctrinated Shepard. And that is why the boy says "Why are you here?" instead of "Wake up" and why you don't wake up in the end. You died, sorry.

With low EMS the only option is to destroy the Reapers. So the Reapers indoctrinate Shep to kill them off...

With low EMS Shep dies on the planet anyway.

Indeed, his/her mind could've win, but not "him/her"

[Turbotanden]

CavScout wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

With low EMS the only option is to destroy the Reapers. So the Reapers indoctrinate Shep to kill them off...

Since they have tryed shooting at  you for the past 3 years and failed... maybe it is time to stop trying shooting Shepard, but instead destroying his mind?

If Indoctrination is true. .then Shepard is NOT in the Citadel, he is just fighting a mental battle... and wins it...  The destruction of th ereapers it is only the consequences of the Crucibel reaching its destination and working on its own, without any need to activate panels on the Citadel.

What? Why would the worse you do per-assault make it easier to "win" using the Indoc theory? Why does preparing better, gathering the galaxy's inhabitants to confront the Reapers make it harder to pick the "win" ending? Do the reapers feel sorry for you if you suck and just let you win?

No, they have no need for you so your only option is to die. With too low EMS your "destroy" option only destroys yourself, with high enough EMS it destroys the Reapers hold on your mind.

[Asari23]

Yes, it's true that with low ems the only option is destroy, why would the reapers just go through that whole thing just to to let shep destroy them?

Well, don't forget with low ems also, the earth and the galaxy gets disenigrated, so that renders that argument moot.

[CavScout]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

What? Why would the worse you do per-assault make it easier to "win" using the Indoc theory? Why does preparing better, gathering the galaxy's inhabitants to confront the Reapers make it harder to pick the "win" ending? Do the reapers feel sorry for you if you suck and just let you win?

This can be up to game mechanics: You did not bother playing the game, then we do not bother showing you more endings since you are just rushing through...

Having more options unlocked, means, that even if you picked the red one.. which is the one you coudl get anyways.. still changes its outcome, to give you again 3 choices instead of only 2 new ones...

Once more, Sheaprd only survives when you get the best EMS.

LOL, what? Anything that doesn't jive with indoctrination theory is going to waved off as "game play mechanics"? Are you serious?

The destroy option is supposed to be the "WIN" option according to the indoctrination theory yet this is the only option if you basically fail at the game by not gathering enough forces to fight the reaper.

[Aiyie]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

garf wrote...

I don't 'buy' indoc theory. but...

It's fun to play with. Anyone notice in the end. ... just as anderson dies. Shepherd notices she has a wound in the exact same place that she shot anderson while under TIM's controll?

They did...  but to me that's the wound caused by the Turian Husk just before you got in the beam.

im sure its overanalyzing, but realistically the physics wouldn't support that being the case... from the way Shep gets knocked back that wound would have been in her shoulder or arm... not abdomen.

but yea... i doubt that actually means anything.  not many games out there with completely accurate physics models, and ME was never known for that.

[CavScout]

Pathero wrote...

With low EMS Shep dies on the planet anyway.

And the Reapers are still destroyed.

[CavScout]

Turbotanden wrote...

CavScout wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

With low EMS the only option is to destroy the Reapers. So the Reapers indoctrinate Shep to kill them off...

Since they have tryed shooting at  you for the past 3 years and failed... maybe it is time to stop trying shooting Shepard, but instead destroying his mind?

If Indoctrination is true. .then Shepard is NOT in the Citadel, he is just fighting a mental battle... and wins it...  The destruction of th ereapers it is only the consequences of the Crucibel reaching its destination and working on its own, without any need to activate panels on the Citadel.

What? Why would the worse you do per-assault make it easier to "win" using the Indoc theory? Why does preparing better, gathering the galaxy's inhabitants to confront the Reapers make it harder to pick the "win" ending? Do the reapers feel sorry for you if you suck and just let you win?

No, they have no need for you so your only option is to die. With too low EMS your "destroy" option only destroys yourself, with high enough EMS it destroys the Reapers hold on your mind.

The reapers are destroyed in the low EMS option too....

[Erethrian]

CavScout wrote...

Pathero wrote...

With low EMS Shep dies on the planet anyway.

And the Reapers are still destroyed.

Nope, it's all in his mind, what he imagines. So his mind wins, he dies, the reapers win.

[DraCZeQQ]

Indoc. theory is just theory and there is no EVIDENCE! (stop using that word) ... its just random data put in context that fit the theory that doesnt make it evidence ...

[MadRabbit999]

CavScout wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

What? Why would the worse you do per-assault make it easier to "win" using the Indoc theory? Why does preparing better, gathering the galaxy's inhabitants to confront the Reapers make it harder to pick the "win" ending? Do the reapers feel sorry for you if you suck and just let you win?

This can be up to game mechanics: You did not bother playing the game, then we do not bother showing you more endings since you are just rushing through...

Having more options unlocked, means, that even if you picked the red one.. which is the one you coudl get anyways.. still changes its outcome, to give you again 3 choices instead of only 2 new ones...

Once more, Sheaprd only survives when you get the best EMS.

LOL, what? Anything that doesn't jive with indoctrination theory is going to waved off as "game play mechanics"? Are you serious?

The destroy option is supposed to be the "WIN" option according to the indoctrination theory yet this is the only option if you basically fail at the game by not gathering enough forces to fight the reaper.

Because building up EMS makes sense that shepard survives? That you have more options to choose from at the end?

IT makes sense in ME2 that because you helped a friend he will not die later on?

ME choices are ENTIRELY based on games mechanics...

[Turbotanden]

CavScout wrote...

Pathero wrote...

With low EMS Shep dies on the planet anyway.

And the Reapers are still destroyed.

No they are not. Shepard sees what she wants to see, including her crew surviving on a tropical planet. The battle is actually still being fought.

[CavScout]

Erethrian wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Pathero wrote...

With low EMS Shep dies on the planet anyway.

And the Reapers are still destroyed.

Nope, it's all in his mind, what he imagines. So his mind wins, he dies, the reapers win.

LOL, what?

[CavScout]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

LOL, what? Anything that doesn't jive with indoctrination theory is going to waved off as "game play mechanics"? Are you serious?

The destroy option is supposed to be the "WIN" option according to the indoctrination theory yet this is the only option if you basically fail at the game by not gathering enough forces to fight the reaper.

Because building up EMS makes sense that shepard survives? That you have more options to choose from at the end?

IT makes sense in ME2 that because you helped a friend he will not die later on?

ME choices are ENTIRELY based on games mechanics...

No it doesn't make sense. According to indoctrination theory it's all in his head, so why does EMS even matter? Why do the reaper indoctrinate Shep and then make it easier for him to destroy them with the less work he does?

[Erethrian]

CavScout wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Pathero wrote...

With low EMS Shep dies on the planet anyway.

And the Reapers are still destroyed.

Nope, it's all in his mind, what he imagines. So his mind wins, he dies, the reapers win.

LOL, what?

The thing is that if the IT is true, nothing since you go to the beam of light ending inside the Citadel happens. It's all an attempt of indoctrination so it's an inner fight inside Shepard's mind. When you pick the destroy option Shepard imagines what happens and with very low EMS he dies.


EDIT: Also, low EMS means a small chance to defeat or confront the reapers, so they really don't care about you being indoctrinated or not. Also, if you kept the collectors' base in ME2, with very low EMS the only given option is to control them.

Modifié par Erethrian, 21 mars 2012 - 04:10 .

[CavScout]

Turbotanden wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Pathero wrote...

With low EMS Shep dies on the planet anyway.

And the Reapers are still destroyed.

No they are not. Shepard sees what she wants to see, including her crew surviving on a tropical planet. The battle is actually still being fought.

And you can show this how? Good god the indoctrination folks are essentially saying nothing in the game can disprove the indoctrination theory since it is all indoctrination... circular arguments galore!

[Aiyie]

JenMaxon wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

I just want to point out that 1st April is All Fools Day.

yea... Bioware made a mistake with the endings...

but no way in hell does a corporation allow someone to pull an April's Fools joke like this on an already disenfranchised client.

[CavScout]

Erethrian wrote...
The thing is that if the IT is true, nothing since you go to the beam of light ending inside the Citadel happens. It's all an attempt of indoctrination so it's an inner fight inside Shepard's mind. When you pick the destroy option Shepard imagines what happens and with very low EMS he dies.

That's just another way of saying Indoctrination can't be disproved with the game because the Indoctrinationists will just say it's all fake.

[MadRabbit999]

CavScout wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

LOL, what? Anything that doesn't jive with indoctrination theory is going to waved off as "game play mechanics"? Are you serious?

The destroy option is supposed to be the "WIN" option according to the indoctrination theory yet this is the only option if you basically fail at the game by not gathering enough forces to fight the reaper.

Because building up EMS makes sense that shepard survives? That you have more options to choose from at the end?

IT makes sense in ME2 that because you helped a friend he will not die later on?

ME choices are ENTIRELY based on games mechanics...

No it doesn't make sense. According to indoctrination theory it's all in his head, so why does EMS even matter? Why do the reaper indoctrinate Shep and then make it easier for him to destroy them with the less work he does?

Are you trolling now or  just contradicting yourself?

Why would game mechanics not matter if IT was true? Why d oyou think it would only makes sense if IT wasn't true?

[TheMerchantMan]

CavScout wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

What? Why would the worse you do per-assault make it easier to "win" using the Indoc theory? Why does preparing better, gathering the galaxy's inhabitants to confront the Reapers make it harder to pick the "win" ending? Do the reapers feel sorry for you if you suck and just let you win?

This can be up to game mechanics: You did not bother playing the game, then we do not bother showing you more endings since you are just rushing through...

Having more options unlocked, means, that even if you picked the red one.. which is the one you coudl get anyways.. still changes its outcome, to give you again 3 choices instead of only 2 new ones...

Once more, Sheaprd only survives when you get the best EMS.

LOL, what? Anything that doesn't jive with indoctrination theory is going to waved off as "game play mechanics"? Are you serious?

The destroy option is supposed to be the "WIN" option according to the indoctrination theory yet this is the only option if you basically fail at the game by not gathering enough forces to fight the reaper.

Not gameplay mechanic but a story mechanic. The idea is that the lower the your EMS, the less the Reapers need to bother with trying to stop you. At the lowest level, they don't need you anymore, after you've resisted the Illusive man, they just let you walk meekly into the night.

As your forces get stronger the Reapers try harder to convince you to give yourself up to them.

It's not perfectly logical. But it's better logic than the vanilla ending. I mean is there any real explanation for why Destruction is only available to you if you have a lower EMS? The Crucible is complete either way, it doesn't appear to take any damage regardless of your score.

[Erethrian]

Aiyie wrote...

JenMaxon wrote...

Erethrian wrote...

"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."

http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/

I just want to point out that 1st April is All Fools Day.

yea... Bioware made a mistake with the endings...

but no way in hell does a corporation allow someone to pull an April's Fools joke like this on an already disenfranchised client.

Yeah, well, even if they say something on April 1st I think the real ( and I hope IT and DLC ending) announcement will come on April 6th.

CavScout wrote...

Erethrian wrote...
The thing
is that if the IT is true, nothing since you go to the beam of light
ending inside the Citadel happens. It's all an attempt of indoctrination
so it's an inner fight inside Shepard's mind. When you pick the destroy
option Shepard imagines what happens and with very low EMS he dies.

That's
just another way of saying Indoctrination can't be disproved with the
game because the Indoctrinationists will just say it's all fake.

They stated that the final battle wouldn't be a "final boss" but one of the mind.

Modifié par Erethrian, 21 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[Erethrian]

Sry, double post -^

Modifié par Erethrian, 21 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[TheMerchantMan]

Asari23 wrote...

Yes, it's true that with low ems the only option is destroy, why would the reapers just go through that whole thing just to to let shep destroy them?

Well, don't forget with low ems also, the earth and the galaxy gets disenigrated, so that renders that argument moot.

Shepard doesn't destroy the Reapers no matter which ending he chooses. Remember the crux of the Indoctrination Theory is that the fight isn't over. You don't destroy anything, indeed according to this theory, the crucible isn't even in the system yet. You have to wake up and finish the job.

[CavScout]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

LOL, what? Anything that doesn't jive with indoctrination theory is going to waved off as "game play mechanics"? Are you serious?

The destroy option is supposed to be the "WIN" option according to the indoctrination theory yet this is the only option if you basically fail at the game by not gathering enough forces to fight the reaper.

Because building up EMS makes sense that shepard survives? That you have more options to choose from at the end?

IT makes sense in ME2 that because you helped a friend he will not die later on?

ME choices are ENTIRELY based on games mechanics...

No it doesn't make sense. According to indoctrination theory it's all in his head, so why does EMS even matter? Why do the reaper indoctrinate Shep and then make it easier for him to destroy them with the less work he does?

Are you trolling now or  just contradicting yourself?

Why would game mechanics not matter if IT was true? Why d oyou think it would only makes sense if IT wasn't true?

What are you talking about?