388 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Asari23 wrote...

Yes, it's true that with low ems the only option is destroy, why would the reapers just go through that whole thing just to to let shep destroy them?

Well, don't forget with low ems also, the earth and the galaxy gets disenigrated, so that renders that argument moot.

1. They still need an agent to get to the curcilbe info. They don'tneed to trick Shepard when theycan just take his/her body.
2. Based on the theaory...the part where the earth is destoryed is not real.

[BalooTheBear]

Just been watching Angry Joe's video about the indoctrination theory.

In it he quotes from the codex saying that people may hear humming/ noises at first.

Now this may have already been addressed but quite a few times James asks if anyone else can hear that hum or is it just him.

Could indoctrination be happening to the crew too?

[Aiyie]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

HAHAHAHA! It's all over guys. No more conspiracies. Now you can come and join the rest of us normal folk in pointing out the logical fallacies and inconsistencies of the ending.

as much as i hate to support the folks who still think indoc was intended all along (it would be a helluva mind-**** that would absolutely redeem Bioware if true... and it could be, after all, our only perspective is Shepard's and it doesn't have the same impact on us, the players, if we already know Shepard is indoctrinated, or in the process of being indoctrinated).

but that said...

id rather go with headcanon and enjoy what i can out of the game than wallow in self-pity and anger like the rest of you "normal folks" seem to be so obsessed with.

heh, its as if everyone who is opposed to indoc theory holds the mindset that "if i can't be happy, then nobody can be happy."

screw that noise.  live and let live people... if its true, its true, if its not, so what?

[CavScout]

TheMerchantMan wrote...
Not gameplay mechanic but a story mechanic. The idea is that the lower the your EMS, the less the Reapers need to bother with trying to stop you. At the lowest level, they don't need you anymore, after you've resisted the Illusive man, they just let you walk meekly into the night.

As your forces get stronger the Reapers try harder to convince you to give yourself up to them.

It's not perfectly logical. But it's better logic than the vanilla ending. I mean is there any real explanation for why Destruction is only available to you if you have a lower EMS? The Crucible is complete either way, it doesn't appear to take any damage regardless of your score.

The destroy option kills the reapers no matter the EMS. What the higher EMS does is change the impact on friendlies the destroy option inflicts. With low EMS, you basically are wrecking Earth and everyone on it. With moderate EMS you wreck buildings but the troops survive and with high EMS only the reapers get wrecked. All options are bad for the reapers. The is zero point in the reapers indoctrinating you just so you could destroy them.

[beccathelion]

Merizan is such a tease, but, this is sort interesting when you look at it laid out this way: www.reddit.com/tb/qx3mg

[CavScout]

TheMerchantMan wrote...

Asari23 wrote...

Yes, it's true that with low ems the only option is destroy, why would the reapers just go through that whole thing just to to let shep destroy them?

Well, don't forget with low ems also, the earth and the galaxy gets disenigrated, so that renders that argument moot.

Shepard doesn't destroy the Reapers no matter which ending he chooses. Remember the crux of the Indoctrination Theory is that the fight isn't over. You don't destroy anything, indeed according to this theory, the crucible isn't even in the system yet. You have to wake up and finish the job.

That's just a built in "you can never disprove this theory because we'll say everything is fake" excuse.

[Erethrian]

BalooTheBear wrote...

Just been watching Angry Joe's video about the indoctrination theory.

In it he quotes from the codex saying that people may hear humming/ noises at first.

Now this may have already been addressed but quite a few times James asks if anyone else can hear that hum or is it just him.

Could indoctrination be happening to the crew too?

It's a possibility since EDI's body was built with reaper tech.

CavScout wrote...

TheMerchantMan wrote...

Asari23 wrote...

Yes,
it's true that with low ems the only option is destroy, why would the
reapers just go through that whole thing just to to let shep destroy
them?

Well, don't forget with low ems also, the earth and the galaxy gets disenigrated, so that renders that argument moot.

Shepard
doesn't destroy the Reapers no matter which ending he chooses. Remember
the crux of the Indoctrination Theory is that the fight isn't
over. You don't destroy anything, indeed according to this theory, the
crucible isn't even in the system yet. You have to wake up and finish
the job.

That's just a built in "you can never disprove this theory because we'll say everything is fake" excuse.

Yeah, well, no one can say that the theory is or is not true, for now. We'll have to wait until April to say that.

Modifié par Erethrian, 21 mars 2012 - 04:22 .

[Paragon Auducan]

beccathelion wrote...

Merizan is such a tease, but, this is sort interesting when you look at it laid out this way: www.reddit.com/tb/qx3mg

This pretty much proves there is SOMETHING not right. I don't care if you don't believe the theory but it also proves it's not finished.

[Erethrian]

Yeah, too many strange things. I'll believe in the Indoctrination theory until Bioware says something about it on April. ^^

[AJ2324]

Sold on the IT. Waaaay to much stuff on it from that new Youtube video.

[Lasiewicz]

I swear it's gonna be ME4...

[twystedspyder]

Aaleel wrote...

If the indoctrination theory is true, it means that Bioware intentionally sold people the final game of a trilogy without the ending, and are planning to sell people said ending at a cost later on.

It's mind boggling how many people are OK with that and more so want this to be the case.

Ok. Delayed response on my part, but this is an example of the sort of thinking that kind of bothers me. No personal issue with Aaleel's comment, just an example that got me thinking.

Why are we suddenly upset with the idea of post ending game content that we have to pay for? Weren't we all eating up the Half Life 2 episodes years ago? Didn't we buy Overlord, Shadow Broker and Arrival and enjoy them? It's not unprecedented at all. We don't want to pay for more game? We're mad because the experience isn't over yet? Sequels are stupid?

I mean, I get it. No one wants to feel like they've purchased an unfinished product. But Bioware clearly at least wanted ME3 to "seem" finished. I clocked in over 30 hours of game time, which is much more than Gears 3 and they both cost $60 and have similar gameplay.

I'd actually be more upset with an apology and a patch. It will seem like a hollow victory at best and most likely Mass Effect will be forever remembered as a disappointment anyway.

Not saying Indoc Theory with post-ending DLC is even close to proven or even likely, but it does give me hope for the future of the franchise. A hope that any placating ending patch really won't be able to provide.

[MadRabbit999]

CavScout wrote...

TheMerchantMan wrote...
Not gameplay mechanic but a story mechanic. The idea is that the lower the your EMS, the less the Reapers need to bother with trying to stop you. At the lowest level, they don't need you anymore, after you've resisted the Illusive man, they just let you walk meekly into the night.

As your forces get stronger the Reapers try harder to convince you to give yourself up to them.

It's not perfectly logical. But it's better logic than the vanilla ending. I mean is there any real explanation for why Destruction is only available to you if you have a lower EMS? The Crucible is complete either way, it doesn't appear to take any damage regardless of your score.

The destroy option kills the reapers no matter the EMS. What the higher EMS does is change the impact on friendlies the destroy option inflicts. With low EMS, you basically are wrecking Earth and everyone on it. With moderate EMS you wreck buildings but the troops survive and with high EMS only the reapers get wrecked. All options are bad for the reapers. The is zero point in the reapers indoctrinating you just so you could destroy them.

Again... they have NOT indoctrinated you until yuo make the "wrong" choices (Going by the IT), they are trying to do so.... the three options would be symbolical inner-battle of Shepard,  not a refelction of truth.... get it now?

And for the last time: I AM NOT SUPPORTING IT OR TRYING TO BASH IT, I am looking for answers.

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 21 mars 2012 - 04:37 .

[Turbotanden]

@JessicaMerizan watch angryjoes vid. cites you as one the reasons he believes in the indoc theory.
@TopDpMC I've always made it clear that these are my personal opinions. People should play the game, review evidence & decide themselves

What evidence is there to be find other than Indoctrination or extremely sloppy writing and production?

[Erethrian]

Turbotanden wrote...

@JessicaMerizan watch angryjoes vid. cites you as one the reasons he believes in the indoc theory.
@TopDpMC I've always made it clear that these are my personal opinions. People should play the game, review evidence & decide themselves

What evidence is there to be find other than Indoctrination or extremely sloppy writing and production?

Maybe it's not indoctrination, maybe it's just a dream...

Nah, I prefer indoctrination.

[Zeroscape]

Paragon Auducan wrote...

beccathelion wrote...

Merizan is such a tease, but, this is sort interesting when you look at it laid out this way: www.reddit.com/tb/qx3mg

This pretty much proves there is SOMETHING not right. I don't care if you don't believe the theory but it also proves it's not finished.

I don't know... at this point I just think she's directing people to come up with their own answers to what happened. There are post-ME3 plans, no doubt, but the endings we have right now are 'as is'. Indoc theory is just a way for us to live in denial.

The ending really is that bad.

[TheMerchantMan]

CavScout wrote...

TheMerchantMan wrote...

Asari23 wrote...

Yes, it's true that with low ems the only option is destroy, why would the reapers just go through that whole thing just to to let shep destroy them?

Well, don't forget with low ems also, the earth and the galaxy gets disenigrated, so that renders that argument moot.

Shepard doesn't destroy the Reapers no matter which ending he chooses. Remember the crux of the Indoctrination Theory is that the fight isn't over. You don't destroy anything, indeed according to this theory, the crucible isn't even in the system yet. You have to wake up and finish the job.

That's just a built in "you can never disprove this theory because we'll say everything is fake" excuse.

No it's the crux of the Indoctrination Theory. It requires that the entire ending after being hit by a beam is an attempt by the Reapers to take control of Shepard's mind.

The notion is not that Shepard is already indoctrinated, but that the Reapers are indoctrinating him, he is resisting. The final scene is essentially an exploration of Shepard's own mind, the Reapers are actively invading his subconcious.

This is why we have the destroy option, because Shepard is fabricating this world and the Reapers are just actively invading it.

[Erethrian]

Zeroscape wrote...

Paragon Auducan wrote...

beccathelion wrote...

Merizan is such a tease, but, this is sort interesting when you look at it laid out this way: www.reddit.com/tb/qx3mg

This pretty much proves there is SOMETHING not right. I don't care if you don't believe the theory but it also proves it's not finished.

I don't know... at this point I just think she's directing people to come up with their own answers to what happened. There are post-ME3 plans, no doubt, but the endings we have right now are 'as is'. Indoc theory is just a way for us to live in denial.

The ending really is that bad.

Well, I think they just never expected this from us. They never expected all this rage. So they've needed all this PR camage control. We'll know the truth at PAX, so waiting, for now. And I still believe in the theory.

[Jaze55]

TheMerchantMan wrote...

CavScout wrote...

TheMerchantMan wrote...

Asari23 wrote...

Yes, it's true that with low ems the only option is destroy, why would the reapers just go through that whole thing just to to let shep destroy them?

Well, don't forget with low ems also, the earth and the galaxy gets disenigrated, so that renders that argument moot.

Shepard doesn't destroy the Reapers no matter which ending he chooses. Remember the crux of the Indoctrination Theory is that the fight isn't over. You don't destroy anything, indeed according to this theory, the crucible isn't even in the system yet. You have to wake up and finish the job.

That's just a built in "you can never disprove this theory because we'll say everything is fake" excuse.

No it's the crux of the Indoctrination Theory. It requires that the entire ending after being hit by a beam is an attempt by the Reapers to take control of Shepard's mind.

The notion is not that Shepard is already indoctrinated, but that the Reapers are indoctrinating him, he is resisting. The final scene is essentially an exploration of Shepard's own mind, the Reapers are actively invading his subconcious.

This is why we have the destroy option, because Shepard is fabricating this world and the Reapers are just actively invading it.

How many times do you have to be told? Look you people clearly do not know about the games lore.

You can not be half, a quarter, .0000001% or 99% indoctrinated. You can NOT block it.

No one EVER in the history of the ME world has broken it EXCEPT Shiala and that was ONLY because of the Thorium and her being liked to the rest of the colonies mind. GOOGLE SHIALA and researh.

In the books NO ONE HAS BEATED indoctrination.

You are doomed once you get indoctrinated. And if Shepard got indoctrinated THAT FAST to where he hallucinates that entire scene he 100% is brain dead.

It's been told in the games that that is how indoc works.

If you let Shepard beat it - SPACE MAGIC and we are right back at square one.

You people do NOT know the lore of the game, you are half ass fans.


I know this doesn't change your mind but it's so clear you people are nothing but fair weather fans. 

[MadRabbit999]

There is one thing I just noticed.. not sure if it has been pointed out... Joker lands on a planet with two giant moons in the sky (Well, one small and one big).

The stargazer (Scene with the old man and kid) scene also has both the same moons in it... was it placed there to tell us that the planed where the Normandy crashlanded became populated thanks to them? AKA Adam and Eve type of thing?

[Erethrian]

MassEffected555 wrote...

TheMerchantMan wrote...

CavScout wrote...

TheMerchantMan wrote...

Asari23 wrote...

Yes, it's true that with low ems the only option is destroy, why would the reapers just go through that whole thing just to to let shep destroy them?

Well, don't forget with low ems also, the earth and the galaxy gets disenigrated, so that renders that argument moot.

Shepard doesn't destroy the Reapers no matter which ending he chooses. Remember the crux of the Indoctrination Theory is that the fight isn't over. You don't destroy anything, indeed according to this theory, the crucible isn't even in the system yet. You have to wake up and finish the job.

That's just a built in "you can never disprove this theory because we'll say everything is fake" excuse.

No it's the crux of the Indoctrination Theory. It requires that the entire ending after being hit by a beam is an attempt by the Reapers to take control of Shepard's mind.

The notion is not that Shepard is already indoctrinated, but that the Reapers are indoctrinating him, he is resisting. The final scene is essentially an exploration of Shepard's own mind, the Reapers are actively invading his subconcious.

This is why we have the destroy option, because Shepard is fabricating this world and the Reapers are just actively invading it.

How many times do you have to be told? Look you people clearly do not know about the games lore.

You can not be half, a quarter, .0000001% or 99% indoctrinated. You can NOT block it.

No one EVER in the history of the ME world has broken it EXCEPT Shiala and that was ONLY because of the Thorium and her being liked to the rest of the colonies mind. GOOGLE SHIALA and researh.

In the books NO ONE HAS BEATED indoctrination.

You are doomed once you get indoctrinated. And if Shepard got indoctrinated THAT FAST to where he hallucinates that entire scene he 100% is brain dead.

It's been told in the games that that is how indoc works.

If you let Shepard beat it - SPACE MAGIC and we are right back at square one.

You people do NOT know the lore of the game, you are half ass fans.


I know this doesn't change your mind but it's so clear you people are nothing but fair weather fans. 

Well, we don't know how this wll continue. What if in the end, after he wakes up, he's still resisting? What if he has to sacrify himself to destroy the reapers? What if once the reapers are destroyed, the indoctrination doesn't work any more? We will see, right?

[MadRabbit999]

MassEffected555 wrote...

TheMerchantMan wrote...

CavScout wrote...

TheMerchantMan wrote...

Asari23 wrote...

Yes, it's true that with low ems the only option is destroy, why would the reapers just go through that whole thing just to to let shep destroy them?

Well, don't forget with low ems also, the earth and the galaxy gets disenigrated, so that renders that argument moot.

Shepard doesn't destroy the Reapers no matter which ending he chooses. Remember the crux of the Indoctrination Theory is that the fight isn't over. You don't destroy anything, indeed according to this theory, the crucible isn't even in the system yet. You have to wake up and finish the job.

That's just a built in "you can never disprove this theory because we'll say everything is fake" excuse.

No it's the crux of the Indoctrination Theory. It requires that the entire ending after being hit by a beam is an attempt by the Reapers to take control of Shepard's mind.

The notion is not that Shepard is already indoctrinated, but that the Reapers are indoctrinating him, he is resisting. The final scene is essentially an exploration of Shepard's own mind, the Reapers are actively invading his subconcious.

This is why we have the destroy option, because Shepard is fabricating this world and the Reapers are just actively invading it.

How many times do you have to be told? Look you people clearly do not know about the games lore.

You can not be half, a quarter, .0000001% or 99% indoctrinated. You can NOT block it.

No one EVER in the history of the ME world has broken it EXCEPT Shiala and that was ONLY because of the Thorium and her being liked to the rest of the colonies mind. GOOGLE SHIALA and researh.

In the books NO ONE HAS BEATED indoctrination.

You are doomed once you get indoctrinated. And if Shepard got indoctrinated THAT FAST to where he hallucinates that entire scene he 100% is brain dead.

It's been told in the games that that is how indoc works.

If you let Shepard beat it - SPACE MAGIC and we are right back at square one.

You people do NOT know the lore of the game, you are half ass fans.


I know this doesn't change your mind but it's so clear you people are nothing but fair weather fans. 

Nobody was ever resurrected either...

Oh wait... Jesus was first... THEN Shepard did 21XX years later

[Erethrian]

Hahaha, Shepard, the new Jesus. lol

[Turbotanden]

MassEffected555
Shepard is fighting against being indoctrinated. If anyone in the galaxy would be able to do that it would be Shepard. It's not space magic.

Removing reaper infection from the geth data servers is a similar thing, but the geth could never create as "real" a world as the Reapers.

Damn, I want a DLC where if I choose synthesis/control I later on get to fight off the indoctrination through my implants in a scenario similar to the one on Rannoch.

[Turbotanden]

Erethrian wrote...

Hahaha, Shepard, the new Jesus. lol

From John 10:
"I am the good shepherd. I know my own, and I'm known by my own [...] I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep, which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd. [...] because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down by myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again."

Modifié par Turbotanden, 21 mars 2012 - 05:14 .