388 réponses à ce sujet

[Stigweird85]

However I can't stand the cliched "It was all a dream" twist.

If Bioware run with this then they need to be careful how far back they go, if it turns out all of Mass Effect 3 was an illusion from the Reaper artifact on arrival then I call BS

[Erethrian]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

If the indoctrination theory is true, it means that Bioware intentionally sold people the final game of a trilogy without the ending, and are planning to sell people said ending at a cost later on.

It's mind boggling how many people are OK with that and more so want this to be the case.

Yea, unfortunately it's a double edged sword.....

Unless said DLC is free.

It's mind boggling how people spend £40-£60 for a game, but refuse to pay £5 for a DLC....

It's not about price, it's about being told you're buying a complete product, paying for said product then recieving an incomplete product and being expected to pay more.

MMOS are sold as "Complete" yet.. they add content equal or double the origina lgame content years down the line.

ME3 IS "complete"... say what you want.. it is good, it is poor.. it is bad.. whatever. .but it IS complete.

Revealing more of the endings does not make the game "complete" because yuo could still compelte it before.

It is really up to the definition of the word "Complete"...

I believe in the IT and I also support this. The game is "complete", and for the indoctrinated ones, Shepard dies, so why to bother?  If they eventually release a "post-ending" DLC and if it's not free, I'd gladly buy it.

Anyway, if the IT is not true, then they better fix these endings... ^^'

Modifié par Erethrian, 21 mars 2012 - 12:20 .

[Transgirlgamer]

shinobi602 wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

I don't believe indoctrination theory anymore (I used to) because I don't elieve Bioware would give a part way through decision where only one choice lets you play on.

Why not? One of the outcomes of ME2 is you die and can't continue. Obviously those are not meant as canon ME2 endings, so....

But if indoctrination theory, or my theory are correct, this isn't the end of the game.  It's only most of the way through.  It would be like a choice Shepard made in the inactive reaper ship in ME2 killed him/her and the only way to move on is to reload before that choice and replay.  Dying in combat and restarting that section is different.  Effectively dying in an exposition section, which is what being indoctrinated would work out to, just doesn't compare.

[kleindropper]

I always thought the kid scenes at the beginning were a little off and this seals Indoctrination Theory for me.

[Erethrian]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

I don't believe indoctrination theory anymore (I used to) because I don't elieve Bioware would give a part way through decision where only one choice lets you play on.

Why not? One of the outcomes of ME2 is you die and can't continue. Obviously those are not meant as canon ME2 endings, so....

But if indoctrination theory, or my theory are correct, this isn't the end of the game.  It's only most of the way through.  It would be like a choice Shepard made in the inactive reaper ship in ME2 killed him/her and the only way to move on is to reload before that choice and replay.  Dying in combat and restarting that section is different.  Effectively dying in an exposition section, which is what being indoctrinated would work out to, just doesn't compare.

In any case, they're letting you replay the last mission, right? 

[BigNastE]

Brilliant. I've been down with the indoctrination theory from day one, so glad some one put a vid like this together.

[Warden130]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Wow, a video by an idiot that is absolutely fraught with errors? Very convincing.

Elaborate.

What he really meant to say was:

"I am right you are wrong, my opinion is more important, I do not beleive that people should disagree from me or question my beliefs"

Thats what I thought too, but I was still curious to see if he could back up his statement.

[Elyiia]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

If the indoctrination theory is true, it means that Bioware intentionally sold people the final game of a trilogy without the ending, and are planning to sell people said ending at a cost later on.

It's mind boggling how many people are OK with that and more so want this to be the case.

Yea, unfortunately it's a double edged sword.....

Unless said DLC is free.

It's mind boggling how people spend £40-£60 for a game, but refuse to pay £5 for a DLC....

It's not about price, it's about being told you're buying a complete product, paying for said product then recieving an incomplete product and being expected to pay more.

MMOS are sold as "Complete" yet.. they add content equal or double the origina lgame content years down the line.

ME3 IS "complete"... say what you want.. it is good, it is poor.. it is bad.. whatever. .but it IS complete.

Revealing more of the endings does not make the game "complete" because yuo could still compelte it before.

It is really up to the definition of the word "Complete"...

MMOs are a different beast entirely, you know upon purchase that they will be adding content which is usually the reason for the subscription fee.

The problem with ME3 is that with the IT, there is no ending. At all. It's like a reading a book but the final few pages which conclude everything in the story, which you are told are in there, aren't and you're expected to pay for it or make up the ending yourself.

[Turbotanden]

Erethrian wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

If the indoctrination theory is true, it means that Bioware intentionally sold people the final game of a trilogy without the ending, and are planning to sell people said ending at a cost later on.

It's mind boggling how many people are OK with that and more so want this to be the case.

Yea, unfortunately it's a double edged sword.....

Unless said DLC is free.

It's mind boggling how people spend £40-£60 for a game, but refuse to pay £5 for a DLC....

It's not about price, it's about being told you're buying a complete product, paying for said product then recieving an incomplete product and being expected to pay more.

MMOS are sold as "Complete" yet.. they add content equal or double the origina lgame content years down the line.

ME3 IS "complete"... say what you want.. it is good, it is poor.. it is bad.. whatever. .but it IS complete.

Revealing more of the endings does not make the game "complete" because yuo could still compelte it before.

It is really up to the definition of the word "Complete"...

I believe in the IT and I also support this. The game is "complete", and for the indoctrinated ones, Shepard dies, so why to bother?  If they eventually release a "post-ending" DLC and if it's not free, I'd gladly buy it.

Anyway, if the IT is not true, then they better fix these endings... ^^'

Shepard waking up on earth is sort of the main reason the indoctrination idea started. And subscribing to the indoctrination idea does by no means say we are "fine" with it. I just woke up and now I want the rest of the ending.

Modifié par Turbotanden, 21 mars 2012 - 12:23 .

[DannieCraft]

I don't see how the indoctrination theory changes the fact that the trilogy that should have ended does not end...
Even if Shepard is indoctrinated, the fight is still carries on. The fleets are still attacking, hackett is in command, the Normandy is in orbit. We don't get to see any of it. All goes on in theories instead... 

[Mycrus Ironfist]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

one in my sig is better i think, its the one he uses as reference, also, this is very much a duplicate thread.

amazingly good video... but you need to explain the ending FMVs better.

[Topsider]

haha, people will believe anything these days. Congrats Bioware for selling us a game without the real ending. Just buy our DLC and you'll see the end we "intended". That's a fast track to losing even more customers. 

The indoc theory is BS, whether Bioware decides to go with it or not. It's a no-win scenario. By all means, expand the current endings in DLC, explain wtf happened, but don't just pretend they never happened. That ship has sailed.

[Erethrian]

Elyiia wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

If the indoctrination theory is true, it means that Bioware intentionally sold people the final game of a trilogy without the ending, and are planning to sell people said ending at a cost later on.

It's mind boggling how many people are OK with that and more so want this to be the case.

Yea, unfortunately it's a double edged sword.....

Unless said DLC is free.

It's mind boggling how people spend £40-£60 for a game, but refuse to pay £5 for a DLC....

It's not about price, it's about being told you're buying a complete product, paying for said product then recieving an incomplete product and being expected to pay more.

MMOS are sold as "Complete" yet.. they add content equal or double the origina lgame content years down the line.

ME3 IS "complete"... say what you want.. it is good, it is poor.. it is bad.. whatever. .but it IS complete.

Revealing more of the endings does not make the game "complete" because yuo could still compelte it before.

It is really up to the definition of the word "Complete"...

MMOs are a different beast entirely, you know upon purchase that they will be adding content which is usually the reason for the subscription fee.

The problem with ME3 is that with the IT, there is no ending. At all. It's like a reading a book but the final few pages which conclude everything in the story, which you are told are in there, aren't and you're expected to pay for it or make up the ending yourself.

In fact there're endings (cra**y ones if IT isn't true, but endings after all), and the "indoctrinated ones" got the most definitive ones, right? (again, only if IT is true). What we still need with IT is an epilogue, and a lot of games have DLCs with epilogues of some kind.

Modifié par Erethrian, 21 mars 2012 - 12:25 .

[MadRabbit999]

Erethrian wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Warden130 wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

If the indoctrination theory is true, it means that Bioware intentionally sold people the final game of a trilogy without the ending, and are planning to sell people said ending at a cost later on.

It's mind boggling how many people are OK with that and more so want this to be the case.

Yea, unfortunately it's a double edged sword.....

Unless said DLC is free.

It's mind boggling how people spend £40-£60 for a game, but refuse to pay £5 for a DLC....

It's not about price, it's about being told you're buying a complete product, paying for said product then recieving an incomplete product and being expected to pay more.

MMOS are sold as "Complete" yet.. they add content equal or double the origina lgame content years down the line.

ME3 IS "complete"... say what you want.. it is good, it is poor.. it is bad.. whatever. .but it IS complete.

Revealing more of the endings does not make the game "complete" because yuo could still compelte it before.

It is really up to the definition of the word "Complete"...

I believe in the IT and I also support this. The game is "complete", and for the indoctrinated ones, Shepard dies, so why to bother?  If they eventually release a "post-ending" DLC and if it's not free, I'd gladly buy it.

Anyway, if the IT is not true, then they better fix these endings... ^^'

I do not know if to belive in the IT or not (In my life I never beleive in the IT department, they are usually lazy and cannot be arsed )... but jokes aside... wether or not IT is true, the ending should have a tiny bit more of clarification, seriously even if it is done liek that video of ME3 animal house (With a freeze frame and explenatory text) at least... we could wash off the bad taste of the current ending).

I cannot stress enoguh reminding people.. we do not want an "Happy ending" We want a bit more clarification on the fate of your companions at least.

[Warden130]

Topsider wrote...

haha, people will believe anything these days. Congrats Bioware for selling us a game without the real ending. Just buy our DLC and you'll see the end we "intended". That's a fast track to losing even more customers. 

The indoc theory is BS, whether Bioware decides to go with it or not. It's a no-win scenario. By all means, expand the current endings in DLC, explain wtf happened, but don't just pretend they never happened. That ship has sailed.

Just like I asked someone to do earlier. Care to Elaborate?

[Capeo]

Warden130 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Wow, a video by an idiot that is absolutely fraught with errors? Very convincing.

Elaborate.

Let's see.  The tress at the end can be seen when you're running before the beam (look to the left and right) and they look nothing like the setting in the dreams.  Uh, Shep only has dreams about the kid after he sees him get killled. None of the "parts of other ships" BS on the Citadel is anything that can't be seen on other parts of the Citadel.  Not to mention the original confrontation with TIM was supposed to be on a space station but they changed it late in the game and I wouldn't be shocked if the used the same assets.  I could go on, but it's useless and I'm not listening to that grating ass again.  It doesn't matter what I say anyway (like BW directly saying a couple times now that this is the endings they intended and the sheer idiocy of them sending an incomplete game to the press to review or how the game tells you beat the Reapers or the same epilogue no matter what or how the game matches the script exactly or how people have missed the whole point that Shep is fighting guilt not Indoctrination) because no matter what this cult is going to believe what it wants.

[Erethrian]

MadRabbit999 wrote...
...


I do not know if to belive in the IT or not (In my life I never beleive in the IT department, they are usually lazy and cannot be arsed )... but jokes aside... wether or not IT is true, the ending should have a tiny bit more of clarification, seriously even if it is done liek that video of ME3 animal house (With a freeze frame and explenatory text) at least... we could wash off the bad taste of the current ending).

I cannot stress enoguh reminding people.. we do not want an "Happy ending" We want a bit more clarification on the fate of your companions at least.

This is also true, the endings are too much open to interpretation. But well, if IT is true Bioware will say something and let us know what's next and why they made these endings.

[Transgirlgamer]

stillnotking wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

I can see no way at all that Bioware didn't see that gamers wouldn't like the ending. After all,why would someone become a game developer unless they were a gamer?

I think you're underestimating the disconnect that can exist between the author's perception of a text and the audience's perception of it. Great writers have made similar blunders many times (Doyle killing off Sherlock Holmes and being forced to retcon it; Dickens rewriting the end to Great Expectations). Especially under deadline crunch conditions, there's a really strong tendency to overlook flaws in your own work, or just dismiss them as "thought-provoking", as the BW writers apparently did. I doubt they really understood that what they saw as thought-provoking, fans would see as lazy, disappointing, or nonsensical.

This is, in fact, the main reason that editors exist: to provide a sort of "reader check" and veto writing that doesn't hold together. My guess would be that the editorial staff cut a lot of corners to meet deadlines. Really, it's their fault as much or more than the writers'.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you.  1st, these are professional writers not first timers which is where that disconnect is much more likely to happen.  2nd, this isn't one writer, working alone who then sends it off to be judged by an editor or two and a publisher before it goes to print, this is a team of writers who then send the writing to a team of animators, artists, programmers, voice actors and who k ows who else.  I very much doubt all of them were acting under the same disconnect.  Yes, there will have been someone in charge who may hav sole control over what ends up going out, but if enough people tell you something will not work the way you think, anyone would change their mind.

[dorktainian]

ok heres a guess....

he is indoctrinated...

At the end where Shep is in the Citadel you hear Hackett tell Shep the Crucible isnt working. Maybe it is working, but then Shep is then tricked into joining the Star Brat upstairs and into destroying the crucible.

oh I dont know..... Bet the folks at Bioware are laughing at us all.

Modifié par dorktainian, 21 mars 2012 - 12:31 .

[Ricvenart]

One which he recommends you watch is more mind blowing, not only linking it to the end or the game but the whole trilogy.

Still theres always room for the oily shadows of doubt.

But I do question the sheer number of "errors", how they could not have been seen.
And even more then that, the bits where more effort is put in then needed (ie. changing shepards eyes for 1 seconds in 2 of the endings, I buy that there should have been a bigger purpose then just because. They do it for a reason with From ashes to show the effect something has had on shepard, how he's changed from it)

Modifié par Ricvenart, 21 mars 2012 - 12:34 .

[Kroepoek]

Prawn-eating sandwich tribe.

[stillnotking]

Topsider wrote...

haha, people will believe anything these days. Congrats Bioware for selling us a game without the real ending. Just buy our DLC and you'll see the end we "intended". That's a fast track to losing even more customers. 

The indoc theory is BS, whether Bioware decides to go with it or not. It's a no-win scenario. By all means, expand the current endings in DLC, explain wtf happened, but don't just pretend they never happened. That ship has sailed.

Any ending that forces me to take seriously the trilogy's resolution by a magical eleventh-hour God-child will be totally unacceptable, no matter how well "explained".

I agree with you that the indoc theory is just wishful thinking, but if BW doesn't adopt it as their own, they better do a total rewrite on everything from the beam forward or I won't be buying the game again (already returned it).

[Elyiia]

A lot of the IT evidence can be shown as simple human behavior which would make sense at the time and Bioware cutting corners with animation etc which isn't uncommon for a studio with a deadline.

My thoughts are that if Bioware is to introduce different endings, they should include an IT one because it's fairly popular with a lot of effort done by the players.

[DrFrankenseuss]

Also, TIM's eyes were explained in the CE book. They're just implants. Also, the "orbs" that people keep talking about can be seen in pretty much anyone's eyes if they're near multiple light sources.

People suddenly appear in games all of the time. Villians generally have this amazing property in casual visual media. It's how mob appear in this game. They just spawn.

The little boy doesn't get help because it makes him appear extra vulnerable and if he just got picked up and whisked into the shuttle it wouldn't have had as much of an emotional impact as if he stood listlessly staring up at Shepherd.

The time between the boy running into the building and the reaper blast isn't instantaneous and he could have gotten to cover deep in the vents only to crawl back out when Shep and Anderson came back in. It not like the vent itself was trashed, so why would the boy? Most people didn't even see him unless if they were looking for it as far as I can tell.

It's a compelling idea when faced with a convoluted ending, but the implications are more insidious than I think could possibly be reasonable. The reason being that when Shep overcomes the indoctrination and wakes up it means there is absolutely no resolution to the story and Bioware planned this all so they could pop out a real DLC ending later.

If the game is actually complete and IT is true then that means Bioware doesn't even want to resolve what happens after said indoctrination takes place, doesn't want to explain what happens to TIM, the reapers etc which is pretty unbelievable. That would mean Bioware thinks that the culmination of the entire series was Shep overcoming indoctrination. Does that seem even remotely reasonable?

Of course the literal interpretation has Shep wakeing up in a pile of concrete rubble and all of the other completely insane things that happen in that final 20 minutes.

[BigNastE]

This is the ending. Shepard overcome Harbinger's last dictch attempt to indoctrinate him is the final boss. I guess everyone wanted your run of the mill ending with classic boss fight, run of the mill resolution, and unicorns farting rainbow trails.