388 réponses à ce sujet

[S1at3]

stillnotking wrote...

S1at3 wrote...

Shep never woke up at the beginning of ME2. He's still lying in a Cerberus facility. Prove otherwise.

You're all wrong. Shepard is a brain in a vat, and all three games are just scientists running tests on him. Also, the scientists don't know they are living in the Matrix, which was built by Reapers. But -- here's the awesomely written twist ending -- the Reapers are actually sea monkeys living in a bowl in some kid's room.

Prove me wrong! Ha, you can't, can you? Because it all makes sense. All the clues are there if you just look!

Stay tuned for my four-part series on the numerology of Mass Effect. I'll clearly demonstrate how the writers embedded all kinds of secrets about the Great Pyramid.

Oh man you're like Nicolage Cage all badass and mystery solving.  Ben Franklin is responsible for this.

[Capeo]

Transgirlgamer wrote...

The screen shot saying you've defeated the reaper threat doesn't invalidate any theory. It doesn't say how you deafeted the reaper threat and something could be put between the 'ending' and that screen and it still be the truth unless you end up with the reapers destroying all life above a certain level of development. I'm not saying that this definatly will happen, just that that one screen shot doesn't invalidate any theory. By the same token, the video of armor moving amongst debris doesn't support any particular theory. It could be that somehow Sheppard survived the destruction of the Citadel in the ending and was transported back down along with some rubble from the citadel as it came apart.

Bull.  It absolutely invalidates IT.  As does the script, Final Hours, and every BW employee comment including all of Jessica's last night.  If one ending was the "real" ending it wouldn't have the same title screen and epilogue as the rest.  Jessica wouldn't be defending the ending and claiming the vast majority of people love it if there was something waiting in the wings.

[Cucobr]

Capeo wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Oh look it's this thread again. Good god people, which part of "there are no facts supporting the theory" do you not get? "No doubt about indoctrination now..." my ass. If there is no "real ending" DLC, the Indoctrination theory is meaningless because ending the game on a dream sequence without actually fighting (defeating) the reapers, defeats the whole purpose of the game. The only way the Indoctrination theory makes sense (even if you get past the fact that it's got plenty of plot holes of it's own) is if a free patch "completes" the game... but do you really think that's going to happen?

I wonder how many times I'll have to link this until people start getting the picture:

Ok.

Explain then this Picture.



have a nice day.

Explain what?  It's from the script.  Destroy always had an ending where Shep lived.  It's the only ending where he can because NEWSFLASH: the other two endings consume his body.  And it's in blue light because the implication is he made it back to the beam.  Stupid?  Yes.  But so is the rest of the teleporting people ending.

So his fall from the orbit to the ground.

Or he was teleported to the ground.

Good try, but no.

[TheImmortalBeaver]

stillnotking wrote...

Cucobr wrote...
Explain then this Picture.

Simple. BioWare anticipated that fans would be upset if there was no ending where Shepard survived, so they added this clip to throw them a bone. It only appears in the "destroy" ending because we clearly see Shepard dissolving in the other two endings. Not that it makes sense in the "destroy" ending either, because Shepard somehow ended up back on Earth, but that's just laziness. Same reason they never explain how/why the Normandy made a mass effect jump after the battle, or how it would be possible to crash land on a planet after having your ship's engines and fuselage wiped out in deep space. The explanation is that they just weren't trying very hard at this point.

I'll admit, that was my immediate thought as well. Everything in the ending, with slight tweaks or just plain more run-time, could've been explained. There could've been a way to teleport back to Earth from the Citadel. Shepard's squad could've been picked up by the Normandy, which could've been retreating due to damage sustained (explaining why it was already in FTL). None of this is explained in-game, which is my only real qualm with the endings. I like open-ended endings, but I don't like endings that just seem to skip parts.

Given that these new endings were made after the previous ones were leaked, I imagine that BioWare did not have much time to make new ones, and this is why the end up being so full of holes. At this point, though, that's as much a conspiracy theory as believing that Shepard was indoctrinated the entire time. Ironically, both could turn out to be true. I guess we'll know for certain when BioWare gives us that expected DLC.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Kanner wrote...

So, why would I be interested in replacing the worst possible ending to the game with an ever so slightly less awful ending?

I don't remotely care that the ending is consistant with the ending that I already hate. That just makes me hate it almost as much.

Well aren't you positive. Who knows what the ending might actually be if the Indoctrination Theory is accurate. We can only speculation.

blacqout wrote...

Someone inform him that when the Rachni queen on Noveria was talking about "fear" she wasn't talking about indoctrination - just the fact that Rachni children are frightened when seperated from their parents because they have no on to sing to them.

His video is fraught with similar errors.

No, she speculates but openly admits to not knowing what happened. Indoctrination is later confirmed in ME2, therefore we can make the connection she was indeed explaining indoctrination but at the time of meeting Shepard did not realize what it was.

sedrikhcain wrote...

At about 4:30 in, the video from the OP's link says Shepard starts to hallucinate images of a boy after encountering the human Reaper, and/or object Rho. Not true, the hallucinations came only after he saw the boy killed by a Reaper.

No, what he says is the boy can be seen running into the building just before the Reaper causes it to explode. Watch the scene clearly and look toward the building. You see the boy run inside. Even if he was real at one point, there is absolutely no way he could have survived the explosion.

[S1at3]

Cucobr wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Oh look it's this thread again. Good god people, which part of "there are no facts supporting the theory" do you not get? "No doubt about indoctrination now..." my ass. If there is no "real ending" DLC, the Indoctrination theory is meaningless because ending the game on a dream sequence without actually fighting (defeating) the reapers, defeats the whole purpose of the game. The only way the Indoctrination theory makes sense (even if you get past the fact that it's got plenty of plot holes of it's own) is if a free patch "completes" the game... but do you really think that's going to happen?

I wonder how many times I'll have to link this until people start getting the picture:

Ok.

Explain then this Picture.



have a nice day.

Explain what?  It's from the script.  Destroy always had an ending where Shep lived.  It's the only ending where he can because NEWSFLASH: the other two endings consume his body.  And it's in blue light because the implication is he made it back to the beam.  Stupid?  Yes.  But so is the rest of the teleporting people ending.

So his fall from the orbit to the ground.

Or he was teleported to the ground.

Good try, but no.

I fall from orbit all the time. 

[realguile]

Sorry guys. I'm not super sad about the ending or anything but could someone please explain the indoctrination ending/theory to me in simple terms and why it makes sense? I hated the ME3 ending but I'll still live. lol I'm not holding the line or anything I'm just curious about why people are thinking the things they are.

It sounds interesting but I don't think bioware is at Kojima level trolling their fans with their IPs. lol

[sedrikhcain]

stillnotking wrote...

You're all wrong. Shepard is a brain in a vat, and all three games are just scientists running tests on him. Also, the scientists don't know they are living in the Matrix, which was built by Reapers. But -- here's the awesomely written twist ending -- the Reapers are actually sea monkeys living in a bowl in some kid's room.

Prove me wrong! Ha, you can't, can you? Because it all makes sense. All the clues are there if you just look!

Stay tuned for my four-part series on the numerology of Mass Effect. I'll clearly demonstrate how the writers embedded all kinds of secrets about the Great Pyramid.

You sir, have won the internet. Well played.

[dreman9999]

blacqout wrote...

Someone inform him that when the Rachni queen on Noveria was talking about "fear" she wasn't talking about indoctrination - just the fact that Rachni children are frightened when seperated from their parents because they have no on to sing to them.

His video is fraught with similar errors.

But the converstion she has was about why the rachni went to war.

[MadRabbit999]

Can I also ask.... that image about the armour shows a blue light... I have seen this only a few times online...  but my ending was dark with no light of any kind... how come?

[Paragon Auducan]

realguile wrote...

Sorry guys. I'm not super sad about the ending or anything but could someone please explain the indoctrination ending/theory to me in simple terms and why it makes sense? I hated the ME3 ending but I'll still live. lol I'm not holding the line or anything I'm just curious about why people are thinking the things they are.

It sounds interesting but I don't think bioware is at Kojima level trolling their fans with their IPs. lol

Revan
Sovereign is Reaper
Master is evil

etc

They are RENOWNED for this kind of thing.

[S1at3]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Can I also ask.... that image about the armour shows a blue light... I have seen this only a few times online...  but my ending was dark with no light of any kind... how come?

Because the boogeyman indoctrinated your game save.

[MadRabbit999]

S1at3 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Can I also ask.... that image about the armour shows a blue light... I have seen this only a few times online...  but my ending was dark with no light of any kind... how come?

Because the boogeyman indoctrinated your game save.

lol I still blame Rick Ashley

seriously.. is this just me or everybody else?

[dc01]

 let's be real here for a split-second: Bioware is tremendiously good at writing stories, that's why we are all here in the first place, it makes no logical sense for their story to breakdown now. i believe the indoctrination theory and further i think Bioware clearly pre-planned this evangelion twist at the end.

[Selman 88]

Too much about the indoctrination theory adds up for it to be coincidence. Clearly BioWare didn't have time to complete their ideal ending so they chose to create an elaborate cliff hanger. Their hand was forced. The lack of sympathy and faith in BioWare disgusts me.

[Myskal1981]

Paragon Auducan wrote...

realguile wrote...

Sorry guys. I'm not super sad about the ending or anything but could someone please explain the indoctrination ending/theory to me in simple terms and why it makes sense? I hated the ME3 ending but I'll still live. lol I'm not holding the line or anything I'm just curious about why people are thinking the things they are.

It sounds interesting but I don't think bioware is at Kojima level trolling their fans with their IPs. lol

Revan
Sovereign is Reaper
Master is evil

etc

They are RENOWNED for this kind of thing.

Yes, but they do that WITHIN a game.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Capeo wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...

The screen shot saying you've defeated the reaper threat doesn't invalidate any theory. It doesn't say how you deafeted the reaper threat and something could be put between the 'ending' and that screen and it still be the truth unless you end up with the reapers destroying all life above a certain level of development. I'm not saying that this definatly will happen, just that that one screen shot doesn't invalidate any theory. By the same token, the video of armor moving amongst debris doesn't support any particular theory. It could be that somehow Sheppard survived the destruction of the Citadel in the ending and was transported back down along with some rubble from the citadel as it came apart.

Bull.  It absolutely invalidates IT.  As does the script, Final Hours, and every BW employee comment including all of Jessica's last night.  If one ending was the "real" ending it wouldn't have the same title screen and epilogue as the rest.  Jessica wouldn't be defending the ending and claiming the vast majority of people love it if there was something waiting in the wings.

Of course she would. If the entire premise is to indoctrinate the fanbase, which is the theory behind this theory, then her admitting anything that could be construed into an acknowledgement of indoctrination, no matter how vague, would ruin the whole idea.

[sedrikhcain]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

At about 4:30 in, the video from the OP's link says Shepard starts to hallucinate images of a boy after encountering the human Reaper, and/or object Rho. Not true, the hallucinations came only after he saw the boy killed by a Reaper.

No, what he says is the boy can be seen running into the building just before the Reaper causes it to explode. Watch the scene clearly and look toward the building. You see the boy run inside. Even if he was real at one point, there is absolutely no way he could have survived the explosion.

Text on screen at exactly 4:28 of the video the OP linked to: Following Shepard's contact with the human Reaper and/or object Rho (Arrival) you begin to see hallucinations of a boy.

That's verbatim.

[S1at3]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

S1at3 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Can I also ask.... that image about the armour shows a blue light... I have seen this only a few times online...  but my ending was dark with no light of any kind... how come?

Because the boogeyman indoctrinated your game save.

lol I still blame Rick Ashley

seriously.. is this just me or everybody else?

Mine was weird.  I didn't get the armor shot but in the last live action vid where the Reapers got raped by the space child my colors were messed up.  Everything was a shade of blue with the exception of red lasers / bullets or whatever tehy were.

[Mcfly616]

What Paragon Auducan said

It amazes me that people forget that these are the very same people that pulled off one of the best twists ever in KotOR....

Kojima level? Kojima doesn't belong in the same sentences as Bioware.....SOOO overrated....MSG is so overrated....

[S1at3]

sedrikhcain wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

At about 4:30 in, the video from the OP's link says Shepard starts to hallucinate images of a boy after encountering the human Reaper, and/or object Rho. Not true, the hallucinations came only after he saw the boy killed by a Reaper.

No, what he says is the boy can be seen running into the building just before the Reaper causes it to explode. Watch the scene clearly and look toward the building. You see the boy run inside. Even if he was real at one point, there is absolutely no way he could have survived the explosion.

Text on screen at exactly 4:28 of the video the OP linked to: Following Shepard's contact with the human Reaper and/or object Rho (Arrival) you begin to see hallucinations of a boy.

That's verbatim.

A lot of evil beings trick their prey by showing them and offering them what they want most.  Shephard wanted a little boy?  That isn't good.

[Transgirlgamer]

How the hell did I get drawn into this again? I don't believe the indoctrination Theory. Assuming there is more to come after what we have, I have my own theory about how it happens. I only came onto this thread as I thought by the title that Bioware had actually said something yet here I am 6 hours later taking part in the argument. I still haven't even finished what we have. I've stopped before the Cerberus HQ mission to get my Galactic readiness up to 100%. i'll run the ending at the weekend.

Have fun debating this everyone. I really should be concentrating on my work. I may look in again when I get home but I doubt anyone will convince anyone else to change their mind.

[sedrikhcain]

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

Even if you believe that, Shepard still didn't have any such hallucinations until after seeing the boy in ME3. And, just to be a stickler about it, most of the images of the boy are Shepard's dreams, not hallucinations.

The first image we see in this game is that same kid playing with a model Alliance fighter; Shepard is watching him from the window. It could have been a hallucination the whole time. 

If we're not any more bound by probability than that, then I'm going with stillnotking's brain in a vat theory. It's no less coherent and is far more entertaining.

edited for typo.

Modifié par sedrikhcain, 21 mars 2012 - 02:02 .

[Kajan451]

Selman 88 wrote...

Too much about the indoctrination theory adds up for it to be coincidence. Clearly BioWare didn't have time to complete their ideal ending so they chose to create an elaborate cliff hanger. Their hand was forced. The lack of sympathy and faith in BioWare disgusts me.

I am not inclined to believe it was coincidence, i am however quite certain the game is incomplete and a rushjob. (Again)

[Mcfly616]

@Myskal1981:

So it's not possible for them to end the game at the plot twist and conclude it with dlc? Yeah its pretty much never been done before. At least in this way...but its not like Bioware has never been one to innovate, take risks and push the envelope.....