Greetings, I’ve recently started hitting the gym again and am trying to come up with a weekly work-out routine that combines cardio and weight lifting. I have a few questions.
Question one: I decided that on Monday I’d work my chest, back, and abs. Today I did a 15-12-10 set of shoulder press, inclined press, and chess press. I was told these exercises were for the chest muscles, but I didn’t feel anything. They just made my arms and shoulders tired. Likewise, with the row machines and the hand weights I used for my back exercises.
Is this normal? How do I know how much weight or exercise to use when I don’t feel as though I’m using my chest or back muscles at all? Is it just because my arms are wimpy compared to my core?
Question two: I do 30 minutes of cardio then my weight lifting. I do it until I’m wore out and usually would have trouble lifting five pounds afterwards. However, two hours later, I’m fine. No aches or pains. I’ve heard you should feel a work-out for some time after you’re finished. Is it fine that I recover so quickly, or does it suggest there’s something off with my routine?
Weight lifting questions
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Maria Caliban
, nov. 03 2009 03:48
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#2
Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 05:16
Tiskenburdle
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Shoulder press is mostly for your shoulder/deltoids. The incline press works your upper pectorals/chest, Bench press hits most area's of your pectorals relatively evenly and the decline press works the lower pectorals.. Fly's work the outer pectorals more.
As for weight, you shouldn't really pay attention to that.. Lift according to intensity, no one knows how you feel something better than you do. I can tell you that your final set should be a 9 intensity on a level 1-10 but I can't tell you how much weight that would be. With three sets, the first should be a moderate warmup... 6-7 intensity The second you should feel, 8 intensity.. The final set should be difficult a 9 intensity. At no point should you push yourself beyond a pain threshold though.. Lactic acid is okay, sharp or deep pain is not.
In my opinion you are also doing too many reps. High reps are fine for endurance training of a particular motion, but if your goal is to tone or shape your physique, lower reps of higher weight are generally superior. Don't worry you won't turn into a hulking beast overnight.. I promise. With 3 sets I would suggest 12-8-4.
I would also recommend you do less cardio before your weight training.. You'll want to warm up, maybe 5-10 minutes.. But you don't want to use up all of your glycogen stores before you begin lifting or you'll be unable to lift as heavy, and your weight training will be more difficult.
Recovery time varies depending upon genetics, age, current health, and the intensity of your workout. But generally you shouldn't feel wobbly or tired a couple hours after your workout.. I take it as a good sign if I'm sore the next day.. But that tends to be harder to accomplish as you workout more. Your body adapts, and in order to keep progressing you may need to eventually change things up... Different exercises working similar muscles... More reps/less weight, Less reps/more weight.. Or do more plyometric/isometric exercises instead of weight bearing etc...
If your goal is performance/optimum health I recommend incorporating some plyometric exercises into your routine. Look up Burpees/Kettlebells or a program such as Crossfit. Also yoga is not only a great stretching program, but can be seriously strenuous as well.
As for weight, you shouldn't really pay attention to that.. Lift according to intensity, no one knows how you feel something better than you do. I can tell you that your final set should be a 9 intensity on a level 1-10 but I can't tell you how much weight that would be. With three sets, the first should be a moderate warmup... 6-7 intensity The second you should feel, 8 intensity.. The final set should be difficult a 9 intensity. At no point should you push yourself beyond a pain threshold though.. Lactic acid is okay, sharp or deep pain is not.
In my opinion you are also doing too many reps. High reps are fine for endurance training of a particular motion, but if your goal is to tone or shape your physique, lower reps of higher weight are generally superior. Don't worry you won't turn into a hulking beast overnight.. I promise. With 3 sets I would suggest 12-8-4.
I would also recommend you do less cardio before your weight training.. You'll want to warm up, maybe 5-10 minutes.. But you don't want to use up all of your glycogen stores before you begin lifting or you'll be unable to lift as heavy, and your weight training will be more difficult.
Recovery time varies depending upon genetics, age, current health, and the intensity of your workout. But generally you shouldn't feel wobbly or tired a couple hours after your workout.. I take it as a good sign if I'm sore the next day.. But that tends to be harder to accomplish as you workout more. Your body adapts, and in order to keep progressing you may need to eventually change things up... Different exercises working similar muscles... More reps/less weight, Less reps/more weight.. Or do more plyometric/isometric exercises instead of weight bearing etc...
If your goal is performance/optimum health I recommend incorporating some plyometric exercises into your routine. Look up Burpees/Kettlebells or a program such as Crossfit. Also yoga is not only a great stretching program, but can be seriously strenuous as well.
#3
Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 05:25
Korgaah
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first off.. with the reps.. if you arent using proper form you wont reap much of a benefit.. at the end of any rep, you need to Hold and Squeeze the target muscles... plus if you are doing for strength.. you should do low reps with heavier weight. For getting cut or chiseled.. you do High reps and low to moderate weight..
Hope that helps
Hope that helps
#4
Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 05:25
Korgaah
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first off.. with the reps.. if you arent using proper form you wont reap much of a benefit.. at the end of any rep, you need to Hold and Squeeze the target muscles... plus if you are doing for strength.. you should do low reps with heavier weight. For getting cut or chiseled.. you do High reps and low to moderate weight..
Hope that helps
Hope that helps
#5
Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 05:31
Torrius
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#1: Generally speaking it's your weakest link that wears out first, but if you keep at it, your arms and shoulders will compensate and get stronger. With that being said, by shoulder press do you mean military press? Like straight above the head? Because that is a shoulder exercise that does help isolate some parts of the chest, but that exercise is supposed to get the shoulders burning and that is normal.
The other thing I would say about all exercises is to make sure you focus on isolation. Technique is far more important than weight. If you are using too much weight and burning out the wrong muscles, your might not be isolating your chest correctly. Start with lighter weight, make sure your form is very good, and at the peak of the exercise you should be trying to "flex" the muscle your working on. For example, on a bench press when your at full extension you need to focus on flexing your chest and holding it briefly, to be sure that you are isolating the muscle your attempting to exercise. One technique with dumbell curls for example is to life them from a palms down position to a palms up position to really concentrate on the bicep at the top of the curl. Once you can control technique even to the point to the point of failure, than begin to increase the weight in small but consistent measures.
#2: I'm not sure which part of your workout you are asking about here? If you recover quickly from cardio that is fine... some people can even get what I would call a "runner's high" afterwards for lack of a better term. People with great cardiovascular system can have amazing powers of recovery. But if your never sore from non-cardio weight workouts you might want to consider either going through your reps quicker and with less rest, or increasing weight. As I'm sure you're aware, muscle is built up by "tearing down" the muscle and healing. Working out in effect "injures" your muscle slightly, but your body's recuperative powers heal your muscle better than it was before.
Interestingly as you workout over time, your body "creates" new muscle cells. Once you build muscle you never really lose it... if you stop working out the new cells you've created become a bit "deflated", waiting to be re-awakened with physical activity. Unfortunately, fat is the same way. Fat cells don't go away through diet, but they "deflate" for lack of a better term. So people who were once muscular will find it easier to become muscular again, and people who put on a few extra pounds will find it packs on more quickly if they give up on thier diet.
The point is, work towards being a little sore but don't hurt yourself, and you will make gains that will stay with you a lifetime.
The other thing I would say about all exercises is to make sure you focus on isolation. Technique is far more important than weight. If you are using too much weight and burning out the wrong muscles, your might not be isolating your chest correctly. Start with lighter weight, make sure your form is very good, and at the peak of the exercise you should be trying to "flex" the muscle your working on. For example, on a bench press when your at full extension you need to focus on flexing your chest and holding it briefly, to be sure that you are isolating the muscle your attempting to exercise. One technique with dumbell curls for example is to life them from a palms down position to a palms up position to really concentrate on the bicep at the top of the curl. Once you can control technique even to the point to the point of failure, than begin to increase the weight in small but consistent measures.
#2: I'm not sure which part of your workout you are asking about here? If you recover quickly from cardio that is fine... some people can even get what I would call a "runner's high" afterwards for lack of a better term. People with great cardiovascular system can have amazing powers of recovery. But if your never sore from non-cardio weight workouts you might want to consider either going through your reps quicker and with less rest, or increasing weight. As I'm sure you're aware, muscle is built up by "tearing down" the muscle and healing. Working out in effect "injures" your muscle slightly, but your body's recuperative powers heal your muscle better than it was before.
Interestingly as you workout over time, your body "creates" new muscle cells. Once you build muscle you never really lose it... if you stop working out the new cells you've created become a bit "deflated", waiting to be re-awakened with physical activity. Unfortunately, fat is the same way. Fat cells don't go away through diet, but they "deflate" for lack of a better term. So people who were once muscular will find it easier to become muscular again, and people who put on a few extra pounds will find it packs on more quickly if they give up on thier diet.
The point is, work towards being a little sore but don't hurt yourself, and you will make gains that will stay with you a lifetime.
#6
Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 05:57
boglin
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Question 2:
The short answer is that you should always do weightlifting before cardio (though it's good to warm up 5min before weights to prevent injury). It's possible that this might have something to do with your quick recovery time. If you do cardio first, then you can't push yourself as hard in your weights. By the time you hit the weights, you've already used up your quick-release energy stores
The long answer is that your body uses your energy stores in the order: creatine phosphate, then glycogen, then fat, then protein. The first two can be released more quickly for burst energy and is appropriate for high-intensity training. Fat is released slowly and is appropriate for low/moderate training, and protein is generally only used during prolonged starvation. When you "hit a wall" in exercise, what this usually means is that you've used up your glycogen, and your body has switched to fat metabolism. Typically, this metabolic switch takes place at around 30-40 minutes after you've started cardio training.
What this means for your exercise is if you're doing your cardio first, then by the time you're done, you're not going to have the proper burst energy you need for weights. This ****s up your attempts to build/tone muscle because you won't be able to lift as much. And, in terms of how many calories you're burning, it's less efficient too. Better to save the fat metabolism stage for lower intensity cardio workouts.
disclaimer: I'm not a professional, but I am a bio-nerd and was friends with an ex-bodybuilder for a while and picked up a few tips from talking to him.
The short answer is that you should always do weightlifting before cardio (though it's good to warm up 5min before weights to prevent injury). It's possible that this might have something to do with your quick recovery time. If you do cardio first, then you can't push yourself as hard in your weights. By the time you hit the weights, you've already used up your quick-release energy stores
The long answer is that your body uses your energy stores in the order: creatine phosphate, then glycogen, then fat, then protein. The first two can be released more quickly for burst energy and is appropriate for high-intensity training. Fat is released slowly and is appropriate for low/moderate training, and protein is generally only used during prolonged starvation. When you "hit a wall" in exercise, what this usually means is that you've used up your glycogen, and your body has switched to fat metabolism. Typically, this metabolic switch takes place at around 30-40 minutes after you've started cardio training.
What this means for your exercise is if you're doing your cardio first, then by the time you're done, you're not going to have the proper burst energy you need for weights. This ****s up your attempts to build/tone muscle because you won't be able to lift as much. And, in terms of how many calories you're burning, it's less efficient too. Better to save the fat metabolism stage for lower intensity cardio workouts.
disclaimer: I'm not a professional, but I am a bio-nerd and was friends with an ex-bodybuilder for a while and picked up a few tips from talking to him.
#7
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Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 06:00
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You know, as much weight lifting as I've done and as many partners as I've had, I know next to nothing about what differences there might be for a woman compared to a man. I'll answer as best I can. First of all, the shoulder presses target the anterior and medial heads of your shoulders and also your triceps. The other exercises do hit the chest. It's not unusual at all that you wouldn't feel it the day/night of the workout. If you don't feel anything tomorrow, I'd say your intensity was too low. If you have trouble soaping your back in the shower tomorrow, then you probably did it right.
I always advocate lifting to failure. That means, you push the weight on every set until you can't push it anymore. If you are targeting 12 reps for that set, you need to find the weight where your muscles give out at 12 reps. It takes some time to find out where you're at and then it will constantly fluctuate depending on a million factors ranging from rest to nutrition on that particular day to strength gains you may have made since the last time you worked that muscle. Precision isn't THAT big a deal. Play it by ear and go to failure on every set. This does require a spotter though. I understand that many women don't like to lift this way because they are afraid of getting bulky. I also understand that women don't produce enough testosterone on their own to really get bulky. And if you did start to see yourself getting bigger than you like, it's nothing to back off of the strength training and go with lighter weights and higher reps and just tighten down what you do have.
As far as cardio goes, I've always felt that 45 minutes was the baseline for really accomplishing anything. It takes approximately 30 minutes for your body to burn through all of the glycogen (readily available fuel) stored in your muscles, blood, and live. The last fifteen minutes then is when you really tap into stored fat. Personally, when I do cardio, I go for an hour.
I never lift within a four hour period of doing cardio. I rarely lift even on the same day as cardio. That glycogen that your body uses as a fuel source for cardio is the same fuel source that it uses to push weight. It takes your body a good meal and several hours to get back to a reasonable strength and probably a good night's sleep to get back to full strength. If you aren't lifting at full strength, you are really just spinning your wheels in terms of the progress you'll make in strength.
Finally, you should feel fine two hours after doing cardio. If you don't, you may have pushed yourself too hard, your nutrution may suck, you may not be getting enough sleep, you may be working yourself too hard over a period of time, or you may have an underlying health condition. Cardio is a slow burn. The amount of time it takes for your breathing, heart rate, and body temperature to return to normal after having done an intense cardio workout is a good indicator of overall cardio fitness. I can run for 60 minutes sprinting for the last five, feel like I'm going to die when I climb off of the treadmill and five minutes later, I feel like I could run a few more miles. That's how you want to feel.
I always advocate lifting to failure. That means, you push the weight on every set until you can't push it anymore. If you are targeting 12 reps for that set, you need to find the weight where your muscles give out at 12 reps. It takes some time to find out where you're at and then it will constantly fluctuate depending on a million factors ranging from rest to nutrition on that particular day to strength gains you may have made since the last time you worked that muscle. Precision isn't THAT big a deal. Play it by ear and go to failure on every set. This does require a spotter though. I understand that many women don't like to lift this way because they are afraid of getting bulky. I also understand that women don't produce enough testosterone on their own to really get bulky. And if you did start to see yourself getting bigger than you like, it's nothing to back off of the strength training and go with lighter weights and higher reps and just tighten down what you do have.
As far as cardio goes, I've always felt that 45 minutes was the baseline for really accomplishing anything. It takes approximately 30 minutes for your body to burn through all of the glycogen (readily available fuel) stored in your muscles, blood, and live. The last fifteen minutes then is when you really tap into stored fat. Personally, when I do cardio, I go for an hour.
I never lift within a four hour period of doing cardio. I rarely lift even on the same day as cardio. That glycogen that your body uses as a fuel source for cardio is the same fuel source that it uses to push weight. It takes your body a good meal and several hours to get back to a reasonable strength and probably a good night's sleep to get back to full strength. If you aren't lifting at full strength, you are really just spinning your wheels in terms of the progress you'll make in strength.
Finally, you should feel fine two hours after doing cardio. If you don't, you may have pushed yourself too hard, your nutrution may suck, you may not be getting enough sleep, you may be working yourself too hard over a period of time, or you may have an underlying health condition. Cardio is a slow burn. The amount of time it takes for your breathing, heart rate, and body temperature to return to normal after having done an intense cardio workout is a good indicator of overall cardio fitness. I can run for 60 minutes sprinting for the last five, feel like I'm going to die when I climb off of the treadmill and five minutes later, I feel like I could run a few more miles. That's how you want to feel.
#8
Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 06:05
Kalgaleth
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Are you sure you're performing the exercises correctly? Small differences in posture and method can make a huge difference in whether your arms get tired, or 'worked out'.
#9
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Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 06:05
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I tried to post once. It was a very long, detailed, and deliberate post. It disappeared. I'm hoping it will reappear. If not, I just don't have the heart to write all that again. I'll try again tomorrow.
#10
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Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 06:17
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I see it reappeared. Awesome! Also, noticed that my first post needed an edit and these awesome boards won't let me do that so, where I said "live", I meant "liver".... AND... a bunch of other post appeared after I posted though those posts appeared before mine. No biggie. I just wanted to say that what I've said is not codified law. It's what I've observed to be effective and true in my own body and in the lifting partners I've had over the years. There is a LOT of ideas out there about fitness and just how the human body works. Fact is, there's just too many moving parts. We "discover" new things on what seems like a daily basis. The best you can do is take all the information you get, piece together the stuff that matches, and then learn how it applies to YOUR body. That's what we all do. Good luck.
#11
Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 06:41
Teejjr
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1) Yes all of those exercises focus on your chest muscles, but you still use your arms and shoulders just the same. That is perfectly normal. That being said, take your time lifting! You will get far better results from a slow and even workout than just pumping the weights off your chest 10 times. It can also help to change the amount of reps you do each week to slow your peak muscle gain.
2) Depends on your overall fitness level. 30 minutes of cardio is very good before a workout. As you progress you should actually feel energized AFTER your workout. Also perfectly normal. You sound like you are off to a good start, keep at it.
2) Depends on your overall fitness level. 30 minutes of cardio is very good before a workout. As you progress you should actually feel energized AFTER your workout. Also perfectly normal. You sound like you are off to a good start, keep at it.
#12
Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 06:44
kufsavar
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well, if you're a woman like i am, developing your upper body will be more difficult. I've never really liked doing presses with weights, so I usually do pushups, flexed arm hang, pullups, curls, plank (god that one hurts like hell) and that sort of thing. realistically, you can actually hit all muscle groups without a full gym.
what you might consider doing (i'm usually sore after about 2 sets of 12) is a pyramid scheme of reps. you start with 8, then 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 14, 13,,, and so on, working your way down. if you can't make it to 15 and can only make it to say 12, you start working your way down from there. that's what the stew smith does.
Also, keep in mind that shoulder, incline and chest are mostly just your pectoral and your trapezoid areas. You have to do more than just pressing to develop all the muscles.
as far as question 2 goes, i'm not a kinestheologist or anything, but i've heard when you work out your muscles recieve more blood and bloat. i've also heard your muscles develop small tears from lactic acid when you workout (that's when you're sore for 2-3 days). might be something as simple as finding other exercises that do more impact to make you feel like you're getting more impact.
Oh, and make sure you lift with your legs and not your back with everyday type things. and don't push too hard, I've been sitting around the past two months with a leg injury from running. Good for you working out!
what you might consider doing (i'm usually sore after about 2 sets of 12) is a pyramid scheme of reps. you start with 8, then 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 14, 13,,, and so on, working your way down. if you can't make it to 15 and can only make it to say 12, you start working your way down from there. that's what the stew smith does.
Also, keep in mind that shoulder, incline and chest are mostly just your pectoral and your trapezoid areas. You have to do more than just pressing to develop all the muscles.
as far as question 2 goes, i'm not a kinestheologist or anything, but i've heard when you work out your muscles recieve more blood and bloat. i've also heard your muscles develop small tears from lactic acid when you workout (that's when you're sore for 2-3 days). might be something as simple as finding other exercises that do more impact to make you feel like you're getting more impact.
Oh, and make sure you lift with your legs and not your back with everyday type things. and don't push too hard, I've been sitting around the past two months with a leg injury from running. Good for you working out!
#13
Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 06:48
kufsavar
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also, as a side note, if you have extra money and like screaming "MOMMY!" in the middle of your workout you should consider buying the P90X video series. You'll love it so bad you'll hate it and probably want to kill the guy leading it.
#14
Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 06:52
ArcenRG
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Not much of a gym expert so I'll just tell you what I know.
Using a two-handed sword tends to work your back muscles best, especially when slaying dragons with it.
Shaking hands with dwarves is a good way to work your forearms, just don't try to lift them. They find that offensive, even though they're so cute and tiny.
Contrary to popular belief, casting magic does not strengthen your abs..that tense feeling you get just means you're running low on mana.
Also, in terms of your fast recovery, that might be a side effect of drinking darkspawn taint, I'm not too sure, I haven't tested it myself.
Using a two-handed sword tends to work your back muscles best, especially when slaying dragons with it.
Shaking hands with dwarves is a good way to work your forearms, just don't try to lift them. They find that offensive, even though they're so cute and tiny.
Contrary to popular belief, casting magic does not strengthen your abs..that tense feeling you get just means you're running low on mana.
Also, in terms of your fast recovery, that might be a side effect of drinking darkspawn taint, I'm not too sure, I haven't tested it myself.
#15
Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 08:24
MrGOH
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1. It does sound like the your arms can't keep up with your chest, as those exercises do require some arm strength.Do you use freeweights or the weight machines? If you're using freeweights, I suggest you switch to machines while your body gets used to lifting and to isolate the muscles that are stronger to give them a workout. I'm not sure what the best course of action would be if you onl have access to freeweights, though I'm sure you can find somebody who does.
2. Are you generally in shape? If so, you should recover quickly, and maybe even feel alittle better than before working out. If not, well, you should feel worn out for just a bit - if you're really out of oractices with weights, you might get that "spaghetti limb" feeling for up to a few hours after the workout though once you get back up to speed, you should start to recover more quickly from that as well.
A good strength workout should leave you just a tad sore the next day - that's your muscles building themselves back up stronger, better and faster from the tearing down you gave them by lifting the day before.
I'm with the others - do most of your cardio after lifting.One thing you might try is breaking up your weight circuits with some quick bursts of cardio to keep your heart rate up and the blood pumping. It's a bit more time consuming, and you really should invest in a heart rate monitor to get the most out such a routine (so you make sure you don't do what I like to and dink around too long lifting weights between cardio exercises letting my heart rate drop for too long). This is really a maintenance or weight loss workout routine - if you're looking for body sculpting or training for a specific sport, you'll need to do something different.
2. Are you generally in shape? If so, you should recover quickly, and maybe even feel alittle better than before working out. If not, well, you should feel worn out for just a bit - if you're really out of oractices with weights, you might get that "spaghetti limb" feeling for up to a few hours after the workout though once you get back up to speed, you should start to recover more quickly from that as well.
A good strength workout should leave you just a tad sore the next day - that's your muscles building themselves back up stronger, better and faster from the tearing down you gave them by lifting the day before.
I'm with the others - do most of your cardio after lifting.One thing you might try is breaking up your weight circuits with some quick bursts of cardio to keep your heart rate up and the blood pumping. It's a bit more time consuming, and you really should invest in a heart rate monitor to get the most out such a routine (so you make sure you don't do what I like to and dink around too long lifting weights between cardio exercises letting my heart rate drop for too long). This is really a maintenance or weight loss workout routine - if you're looking for body sculpting or training for a specific sport, you'll need to do something different.
Modifié par MrGOH, 03 novembre 2009 - 08:27 .
#16
Posté 03 novembre 2009 - 12:38
Jonp382
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I find parallel bar dips and cables are much better for developing the pectoral muscles. Not to mention more 'comfortable' to perform.(When done correctly)
