374 réponses à ce sujet

[alx119]

Foreste wrote...

Saint Op wrote...

Xenoaroe wrote...

phototed wrote...

Xenoaroe wrote...

Guys, this really is the best you could have hoped for. Muzyka's response was sincere, and it sounds like they are hitting the ground running if they are going to give us info in April.

Mass Effect 3 was an amazing game 99% of the way through. Only the very end was a let down. Have faith in the guys that made the wonderful experience that constituted that 99%.

I was severely disappointed in the ending. I hated the Star Child Reaper King.

But, I believe in Bioware.

Same here!  

I'm glad you agree. I think optimism is the appropriate response. Bioware's responsivness is something to be appreciated, even if you don't 100% agree with them.

Truley If you disect and bash every word that anybody extends to you they will indeed write you off as a group of people that are just angry and unpleasable.
Civil discourse is a key...a lot of whats said in this thread will make them rethink attempting to do anything because nothing will be good enough short of beheading Mac and parading him through the streets...

You said that very well, and I agree.

Although that I very much agree, people is well in their rights to feel legitimately angry about this statement. As it defends something that has caused from a very displeasant feeling to even physical and psycological -pain- to many around here. Their defending of their "art" is insulting and rude, on account that they are basically saying "The critics said..." before even mentioning the fans feedback mattered. 

I get that they can't just outright say "Hey, yes, we ****ed up the endings and we're fixing them". But they can't also hide in a shield of critics that are just doing their job and pretend that we're ok with it. And it's even worse when he acts like if it was a genuiune surprise. Please.  

[ScriptDiver]

"This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and NEW FULL GAMES, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."

Nobody else latched on to that? had to read that twice to make sure I read what I read. Mass Effect 4?

Maybe number 3 wasn't the end. Maybe we're not looking at a DLC ending, like say the indoctrination theory. Maybe the plan all along was to continue Shepards journey, and the "perfect ending" where the commander wakes up is a hint of a future game?

Still doesn't take away the badly written ending though, how I wish it would.

Modifié par ScriptDiver, 21 mars 2012 - 03:58 .

[C Trayne]

Honestly I'm tired of them using game critic reviews as proof its a good game... No one is denying the fact the game BEFORE the final hour is phenomenal. Its the fact that a simple game reviewer isn't going to have the connection to the game or the series as a whole that we as long time fans have. The fact that they ended some of the stories in the game so suddenly and vageuly hurts us far more than it does for a reviewer who hasn't played the previous installments (IDK if thats true just guessing).

Therefore, I think that the word of the hundreds of thousands of angry fans who are more involved with the series is louder than that of a couple game critics. I know that this is kind of what ray was saying I just don't like hearing how it got amazing reviews from game informer or ign or whatever when they can't really compare.

[RULost119]

I honestly think everyone should calm down. At least we have some kind of timeline. Give them a chance to show what they are going to do. Until they reveal it, continue to Hold The Line. Don't let up pressure, just do it in a more constructive way. Actually voice "This is what I want different." Let's see if they are actually listening. Then, when the time comes, if it still isn't what we hoped for, we can always let it go at that time. Right now is not time to dissect every single word he said and put it under a microscope. Remember, he does still have to answer to EA and still does have to keep the loyalty of the people he works with. He couldn't exactly come out and say "Yeah, I thought it sucked too."

The TL;DR version: Be happy we got a timeline, let's see what they do with it, continue to hold the line.

[812memphis]

i still can't believe that ANYONE at BioWare really thought that this was a good and satisfying ending LOL

[Coolfaec]

What a vague statement.

Almost as controversial as the ending...

[alx119]

Eain wrote...

I'm seriously confused at his answer to be honest. Everything he says indicates that the team never saw this coming at all, and that they genuinely believe the ending was good.

I just don't get it. You cannot believe this ending is good, because it's not. It's a plot invalidating, plothole spawning, choice nullifying sequence of foolishness that contributes absolutely nothing to the franchise.

How can they genuinely believe that a game with around 75% autodialogue and so many gaps in its story is the best game they've produced to date? In gameplay terms, yes, I'll agree that it is. The game plays exceptionally well and multiplayer is fun. But as far as story goes this is arguablly the LEAST impressive RPG they've ever made. It's just very, very sloppily written. I don't get how they don't see that.

Far greater still are the implications of this fiasco on professional reviewing. How can I take the ratings ME3 got serious as an argument when the ending is so mindnumbingly bad that anyone capable of rudimentary logic should be able to pick up on its flaws? All of these people giving the game perfect scores did so before finishing it, and did so with a fat cheque in their wallet. Why do these official responses continually expect us to fall for that?

Doesn't seem they care much about the story. 

[The Lightspeaker]

I think the most important thing to come out of this is that he's made a statement at all. That is a HUGE step forward and a cause for optimism.

Theres a couple of things still concerning me. Especially the "clarify" word used but no mention of actual change to add choices. Although he specifically recognises the player ownership of the story, something I blogged on a couple of days ago.

And the constant talk about artistry, whilst understandable from a PR point of view, is a little bothersome because art only has value because it is given value by its audience.

However I certainly think it looks like we're slowly getting somewhere. Keep holding the line.

[Kyrick]

Melancholic wrote...

This does leave me confused considering Michael Gamble's tweet that says people would react differently (to the ending) if they knew what was coming, Jessica Merizan's "Hang in there!" (in regards to hating the ending) and a whole bunch of other tweets that are beacons of hope. Gamble's tweet was in the first couple of days, long before the scope of this fan anger became clear. I also can't imagine it having been about anything other than the endings, considering it's virtually the only thing people are vocally upset about.

I'll end your confusion for you. 

GAMBLE TOLD A BALD-FACED LIE!  He had nothing to say about the ending at all.  The only thing that tweet pertains to is likely importing Shepard's choices to multiplayer, or some other game after Mass Effect 3.  Just one of the many lies they've all told in various interviews and public statements about the game and the endings, so just one more shouldn't be too entirely shocking.

[Ainyan42]

Personally, I see it as nothing more than the same PR spin we have been seeing - accusing us of being the 'vocal minority' when every indication is that we are not as 'minor' as we seem. In fact, if they /really/ wanted to clear up the debate as to whether we're the 'some' or 'most', all they have to do is patch in a poll that opens when you start the game, as long as a NewGamePlus file is present in the save folder, asking how you felt about the endings. That way everyone who patches and plays would be given an equal opportunity to have their say. It wouldn't be 100% perfect, but it would be the clearest indicator as to the general ratio of like vs. dislike vs. indifference.

But, as usual, it feels like the company doesn't care as long as the 'official reviewers' (many of whom specifically state in their reviews that they didn't finish the game before reviewing - and many of whom are, indeed, known corporate shills) are out there boosting sales.

No, all I'm seeing is that they plan to provide 'closure' in the form of an epilogue, and perhaps 'explain' some of the plotholes (hah, I'd like to see them explain some of them in any way that makes sense and fits the story and the characters). I can only hope that they don't use this as some subtle dig at us that makes the endings even more unpalatable than before.

[FemmeShep]

"Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they finished playing through it."

Here is the problem right here. They seriously believe that ending was great and reflected our choices. Jesus ****.

Modifié par FemmeShep, 21 mars 2012 - 04:01 .

[crimzontearz]

tell your friends if it was good as whole





no, just like a meal that ends with a chocolate covered turd for dessert THAT YOU CANNOT DECLINE AND HAVE TO EAT is utterly ruined so ME 3 thanks to the ending is NOT good as a whole

[RedMike512]

I think if they really stopped and thought about it, they'd realize that the "artistic integrity" of the endings is meaningless. Just because you call something art it becomes inviolate? Not all art is worth saving, or even appreciating. If the ending was art, it was bad art and should be fixed.

He might also consider evaluating why the reviewers didn't point out the horrible ending. Is it perhaps, because they're afraid to say anything for fear of losing their advertising dollars?

[Arppis]

Moariar wrote...

taikasieni90 wrote...

Hope lives on

Wrong.

Hope Rides Alone, mankind is doomed.


Glad to see Bioware is just dragging this out some more, making us wait longer to try and weaken people's resolve. If the announcement does turn out to just be more pay for DLC, I will just stop buying Bioware products. After DA2 and the fallout of ME3, I don't think I want to invest myself in anything this company makes ever again. When you make a product for a consumer, you accept their feedback; when enough of them have the same problem, you fix it. Your product may be 'art,' but you will not be the first artist to change your art at the behest of your patron. Otherwise, enjoy making 'art' in the street, with nothing but your integrity to eat, if you want to continue that allegory.

Not that it matters; Bioware and EA made plenty of money, and they're happy. Major Game "Journalists" recieved their review copies and gifts, and they're happy; no way will they shoot that review copy pooch. That just leaves a bunch of consumers who believed they were 'entitled' to the product promised and purchased, being berated by everyone about being whiners and worse, even by sites that once stood by gamers.

Well if anything, thank you, Bioware. I will no longer preorder a game, or buy a game on release day; I will wait for the real reviews to come out days or even weeks afterwards, from journalists who have nothing to lose by being honest. This will go double for your products. Thanks for the lesson.

It's been 1 week since release, I get that you are pretty frustrated, especialy after DA2 and this.

But give them more time to work on the sollution and hear majority of thoughts of the whole ME3 game.

I'm pretty neutral about this whole thing. But I don't think these guys who are "holding the line" are doing it for nothing and BioWare WILL notice it. I'll keep thumbs up these "Hold the line" people.

Modifié par Arppis, 21 mars 2012 - 04:01 .

[beccathelion]

ScriptDiver wrote...

"This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and NEW FULL GAMES, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."

Nobody else latched on to that? had to read that twice to make sure I read what I read. Mass Effect 4?

Maybe number 3 wasn't the end. Maybe we're not looking at a DLC ending, like say the indoctrination theory. Maybe the plan all along was to continue Shepards journey, and the "perfect ending" where the commander wakes up is a hint of a future game?

Still doesn't take away the badly written ending though, how I wish it would.

They've said before that the ME universe will continue on, but Shep's story was over and done. I've always thought they'd make another game, just with new characters and whatnot. I mean, I'd be surprised if ME4 was in the works and "tada, it's your 30 hour ending." It'd be kind of cool though.

[Myrmedus]

tobito113 wrote...

Brahlis wrote...

Am I the only one that reads that and thinks he's largely dismissive of everyone against the ending? He spends more time dancing around the issue and refuses to acknowledge any type of mistake on Bioware's part.

No youre not, the rest of the Hold the Line movement is acting just as stupid as you are

Are comments like this really helpful or constructive in any way? Why do you keep coming into these threads and inciting us? This is the second time I've seen this in 2 days now.

Besides, if you enjoyed the ending, why are you not replaying ME3 or doing some MP?

Modifié par Myrmedus, 21 mars 2012 - 04:02 .

[Mikeuicus]

Not to play Devil's Advocate, but his statement about artistic integrity could be: The team planned the indoctrination (or similar idea) ending from the get go. They knew this would cause backlash/publicity/anticipation for an ending dlc/expansion. The plan is to commit to the current endings until DLC/Expansion etc is announced (about a month or so after release. See Dragon Age: Awakenings, a 10-20 hour expansion that came out less than five months after DA:O).

My guess is Bioware ran out of time and money on the endings. They faced either a long delay (six months or so) or to cut the finale significantly and "finish the fight" as an expansion. The indoctrination plan came into effect. If this was the case, I think it's a brilliant, daring solution to a game design issue.

When I think about the indoctrination theory and an expansion full of suicide mission like war asset related decisions, I am pleased. When I think about the current endings being it for my Shep, and the universe, I am sad.

[Mezantine]

I kinda think this apology is mostly to get the core fan based settled so they'll be able to sell DLC to them to expand the multi-player. With people returning their games to amazon and origin maybe their projections for profits from it are becoming a lot smaller.

[wright1978]

nevar00 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

I think it is a great message from Ray Muzyka. If they patch in text/picture based epilogue and remove/explain the Normandy escape/crash, the ending will be much better.

We're still left with 3 different-colored endings that are not changed by our decisions (which are also rendered pointless) and a mass of plot holes, even discounting the whole Normandy scene.  Not to mention the Starkid is literally the definition of a deus ex machina...

Yeah i'm glad to see a response from them but i'm disappointed that he seemed to ignore the lack of diversity in the ending.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Dr. While the response is appreciated, the ending literally just doesn't make sense or jive with the rest of the series.

I mean really.

Synthetics to destroy organics so the dont build synthetics that would destroy organics.

and we can destroy edi, geth that are peaceful now(but "doesnt solve the problem in the long run")

Combine into one race (bye free will, but you are saved I guess) and shep dies

Control- TIM was right but not strong enough, really?, Cerb was correct although did it in gruesome morally corrupt ways?

How does any of this make sense, at all, or artistic?

[MissOuJ]

Sounds good. Nice to have a "higher-up's" comment on the issue. I know several developers/BW team members have already said the exact same things, but still: hearing the same from someone who's (at least to some extent) pulling the strings, so to speak, is always a plus.

And I have to say I sympathise with him (and the team) to an extent. Keeping the feedback civil seems to have been... an impossible challenge to some individuals, but I'm happy to see most of the feedback has been pretty constructive - after the initial flare-up at least. Haven't seen a lot of horribly offensive comments lately, but some of the stuff has been uncivil at best and ridiculously offensive at worst (I'm talking about on-line in general, not BSN).

I also find it kind of sad some fans seem to think the people who've worked on this game and obviously love the franchise don't actually care about the universe or the games at all. Whatever the ending was - a clever artistic statement or a monumental misstep - they realised it wasn't what the fans wanted or expected, and they're ready to address that in the future. Whether that's in the form of an expansion pack or DLC, I don't really care. Our opinion has been heard, and it's going to be addressed: that's enough for me.

I for one am eager to hear what they've got planned. ME3 is still, despite all this, an amazing game, and an amazing franchise, and I'm happy I've had the opportunity to enjoy the ride. Even if the final part of the ride was somewhat confusing and seemed to punch me in the gut with an angst-infested fist. Still awesome, mind you, just... warn a girl, next time. Please?

[alx119]

ScriptDiver wrote...

"This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and NEW FULL GAMES, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."

Nobody else latched on to that? had to read that twice to make sure I read what I read. Mass Effect 4?

Maybe number 3 wasn't the end. Maybe we're not looking at a DLC ending, like say the indoctrination theory. Maybe the plan all along was to continue Shepards journey, and the "perfect ending" where the commander wakes up is a hint of a future game?

Still doesn't take away the badly written ending though, how I wish it would.

With that ending it would only make sense that it was all a dream. Because with the destruction of the Relays you only destroy the whole universe, and what made it so fascinating. You loose the cultures, the planets, the galactic society. ****, in theory you even lose the mass effect and people is technologically downgraded. How can they continue with another game unless a. it was all a dream or b. they fix the ending? 
They can't! 

[RafaelBRms]

Well, lets see the critics buy all the DLC then.
.

[Morty Smith]

This debunks all theories. The ending is as intended.

... Ouch. Just ouch.

[Myrmedus]

Mezantine wrote...

I kinda think this apology is mostly to get the core fan based settled so they'll be able to sell DLC to them to expand the multi-player. With people returning their games to amazon and origin maybe their projections for profits from it are becoming a lot smaller.

Well that won't work on me for one.

I appreciate them coming out with something more substantial, and I'm not about to return my game, but I'm also not interested in non-ending DLC whatsoever until the ending debacle is indeed fixed, soft words or not. It's not even a "stand" on my part, I'm simply not interested, there's no purpose in it.