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BioWare Co-Founder Ray Muzyka to Mass Effect players


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#251
Guest_jojimbo_*

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Thanks Ray, and thanks to the Mass Effect team.

This is a "meet me half way" and hopefully concerns and issues are to be addressed with
more content incoming to deal with issues,plotholes and bring new content and even "new games??
so this is not the end of the mass effect universe.

You guys at Bioware are unprecedented in your humility, and I really do think you care,
but touting the 75 acclaimed critis for the score means absolutely nothing to me, these
"critics" so called, probably never even played the first game, but...

The co-founder of Bioware coming forward to allieviate our concerns has to be respected
profoundly, thanks fot that Ray, and because of that act of humility and promises of a resolution,
I shall now go and change my Amazon and Metacritic scores I gave "in the heat of the moment"
as a passionate kneejerk, and give the game hopefully the score it deserved.

I shall be watching though, don't botch it up.

Love Live Shep!!!

EDIT: metacritic score changed from 3 to 9
amazon score changed from 1 star to 5.

dont let us down guys, and i encourage fans to go fix their kneejerk reaction scores,
the game deserves better than 3.7 - 4.9 this critical time takes two to tango.

Modifié par jojimbo, 21 mars 2012 - 04:21 .


#252
ek5000

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"Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole."

I think it's a good response 'as a whole'. Really didn't like it that he mentions that critics love the game.

Never, ever trust anything an "entertainment critic" says - there is a reason why you hardly ever see music critics these days.

Modifié par ek5000, 21 mars 2012 - 04:10 .


#253
thebigbad1013

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I'd also like to point out that this doesn't actually rule out the indoctrination theory. If their plan all along was to reveal something at PAX, and they truly were surprised by the strong reaction from the fans, then it certainly makes sense for Muzyka to post something like this, encouraging people to play the game and recommend it to others if they like most of it: damage control until the big reveal.

Not saying it's necessarily true, just saying it doesn't rule it out.

#254
AnsinJung

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thebatmanreborn wrote...

alberta wrote...


I don't get it - why are you blaming this fan for expressing his/her opinion either way. This fan did NOT cause the ending problem - BW did. Now BW is again blaming ALL fans for not liking the ending. Otherwise why use the "artistic" shield? Or the Reviewers shield? Especially the reviewers shield we know for a FACT only one in 10 even finished the game.


If you know this for a fact, prove it.  I've written game reviews for magazines and newspapers and the rule of thimb was that you finished the game before writting your review.  Where is the evidence to support your claim?

Be rational folks.  A good portion of the fanbase likes the ending.  A good portion of the fanbase that didn't like the ending support artistic rights, like me.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this matter.  


I imagine a lot of reviewers don't invest themselves as heavily into single games or game series, as they have a lot of different games to play.  In turn the endings don't bother them as much if they suck.  On the other hand, there are reviewers who do care about Mass Effect specifically, and feel the pain more than their peers.

#255
Srefanius

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I think some people missunderstand "destructive criticism". Its not adressed to all the people who responded with their explained opinion why they don't like the ending. This adresses the people on twitter ect who attacked bioware on a very low level. There were also some posts on these forums that were written in bad emotion. Something like this won't help, I agree on Rays opinion at this point.

#256
FaultenXIII

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shoshbear wrote...

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Let us stay the civil majority that caused such change. We have won a small battle here friends let's not lose sight of what we're really after and lose the war.

Hold the Line.


^^^THIS^^^

Nicely said, I'm glad that other people aren't jumping the gun and seeing everything Bioware says during this discourse as evil and souless. Lets calm down for a moment and try to act like the adults we claim to be.

#257
Kosiji

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I think all we're going to get is an explanation on the ending.

#258
trembli0s

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I don't quite understand where everyone's reading all these meanings into his statement.

I don't like the ending. He's in between a rock and a hard place, his development team and the core base of the fans. He clearly understands there's been a big backlash against the endings. He also understands that the VAST majority of us think 95% of the game is pretty close to as flawless as we've ever seen in video games.

As long as we have clarification and closure in a DLC pack I'm absolutely fine with it.

#259
LMShepard

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So Ray trusts the opinion of 75 critics who mostly get their games for free vs 50000+ loyal paying customers? Sure it's a form of art, but the product is not created just for their personal and private enjoyment. The fact that this product is then distributed to the masses and profits are also a priority...then the art argument begins to blur. The game costs $60 or $80 which costs much more than a movie ticket or a book and consider that most fans have bought all 3 games along with countless DLC, comics, books, etc...and we're talking about hundreds of dollars spent following this 'art'. Fans and owners of the product at large have as much invested in the franchise as the creators...so when we express our dissatisfaction with the product...it had better damn well mean more than the opinions of a few so-called critics who think they are all about the industry.

#260
thebatmanreborn

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invulnerable23 wrote...


I'm sorry, but really? You are likening Mass Effect 3 to the great stories of old simply because you enjoyed it? Yes, I love Mass Effect. I loved the entire series, but the last 5 minutes are a different animal than the rest of the series. I hate that they lost touch with the world I loved so much that they created such a poor excuse for an ending.

Let's examine your ideas. As a philosophy student, let's look at the idea of Mass Effect as art.

If it's any type of art, it's commissioned art. It's being paid for and made to make a profit. If you release a series of novels and write the conclusion to the story that is utter nonsense, your fanbase has every right to ask you to change it, to petition the change, to demand the change. You, as the author, don't need to listen. You made it for the publisher and for yourselves, not the fans.

BUT Mass Effect 3 was made for the fans. It was made for it's target audience. Hence why all the females wear tight-fitting clothes and you can fall in love. Hence why you fight and shoot and dodge and do all the action movie staples... because that's what fans want. This is a PRODUCT made by a COMPANY, not some painting made for the sake of art.

I get it. You want video games to be on the same level of art as novels and movies, but video games are beta tested and reviewed, like movies are shown to test audiences, to see if the viewers will enjoy the product. Many games undergo changes multiple times, and if you want video games to be recognized as art you have one problem:

DLC and patches. They change the games and update them constantly. How can a "unchanging artform" be altered constantly and still remain the same as it once was? It can't. They've already changed the game with the addition of day-one DLC. Not
to mention the game is different for each person playing. So why would it be wrong for Bioware to change their ending for the fans instead of for proft? 

/Rant.


Any story is art.  There are lots of bad stories, but they are still art.  Storytelling is the foundation of all art and as long as the art tells a story, it is art.  Mass Effect tells a story, therefore, it is art.  It may not be a good story, in your opinion, but it is still art.  I agree with you about the ending, but I still defend their creative intergrity.  

The average novel takes about 1,000 hours to write over a six month span.  I then have to edit it, which takes about 3 or 4 drafts before it is ready to be included within a book proposal package.  A book proposal package consists of a marketing plan, a chapter by chapter synopsis, and a query letter.  I submit this to my agent.  He gets 15% of any contract I sign with a publisher.  So, the publisher gives me a $50k contract.  He gets 15% of that 50k.  Then the government gets 30% at the 50k.  I get $27,500.  I won't get royalities unless the book hits good sales-the golden number is 10,000 copies.  Even then the percentage never tops 15%.  

Oh, and publishers won't pay to market me.  I'm not Stephen King.  I have to pay for my own publistist or pay for my own marketing; all out of pocket.  Compare this with the reader who buys my book for $10 and spends a day reading it.  My present novel project will have taken 2 years of my life before it hits store shelves.  Bioware has spent 7 years, millions of dollars, and thousands of hours.  The gamer, like myself, spent 100 hours and a couple hundred bucks.  We are invested in the story, but we don't have creative ownership of the story.   

Now, I write for my readers, I do.  Every professional writer must write for the readers otherwise what they write will never sell.  And every author is bound to write a bad book or two.  It doesn't mean all of their work is suddenly rubish.  James Patterson, Stephen King, etc have all writtten some bad books, but the majority of their stuff is very good.  We learn from our mistakes and move on.  Always learning...man, as I writer I have tons to learn. 

DLC's and patches are great for the technical end of gaming.  The story is a different beast.  The story is where the real art is at.  My novel will go through edits rquested by the editor and then by my agent and then by my publisher.  But after it is released, the story stands on its own.  The same should be said of games.  Yes, there are bugs that need patching.  More dlc can be added to expand the story and explain things.  But don't alter it.  That would be opening a can of worms that you don't want opened.   

 P.S.  Philosophy sounds like an awesome major.  Do you intend on being a Philosophy Professor, out of curosity?  Seriously, I love psychology and philosophy.  Awesome stuff.  

 

Modifié par thebatmanreborn, 21 mars 2012 - 04:16 .


#261
Alamar2078

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I really don't think BW has "dug themselves into a whole" with the presented endings even if they are working on other projects in the same "universe".

If Bioware is stuck all they need to do is say the endings as presented are our artistic vision and we are developing more games given those endings. However we also listen to our fans so we are announcing our "What if" DLC [instead of The Truth]. As long as the What If DLC matched the pre-launch promises of BW and was high quality I think the fans would be OK playing a "what if" and just imagine it was "The Truth".

That's the best compromise that I can think of at least. It's just too bad this DLC wasn't also a day 1 DLC :(

#262
Optimus J

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I'll return my game anyway today. If the news in April are satisfactory, I'll buy it again.

#263
Epiph1

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Apparently you want to appeal to me as a 'fan' of the series to use my allegedly powerful influence to talk the game up; yet my criticisms of the game are in a minority and therefore not that relevant or influential?

Urgh make up your minds Bioware.

#264
SirCroft

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Still have faith BioWare will do what is right.

#265
Andur4

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What I want to know is what is a "game content initiative" is. Are they talking patches, dlc? Also doesn't really fill me with much hope, makes it sound like their gonna try and justify their poorly-written ending. Still, at least we'll learn more next month.

#266
RevenantWolf

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I predict layoffs at Bioware in the near future

#267
Sargerus

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It appears that this long battle will reach its climax at PAX East...

Hold the Line, BSN!

#268
Kiara

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lol I know I am sounding desperate right now (avid indoctrination believer ), but I think they expected us to pick apart the ending, just underestimated the anger that would be unleashed by the fans.

#269
Mims

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And so begins operation, fill in the plot holes with DLC:

Tali: Hey everyone! I just fixed this thing that will let us use FTL even if, gosh, I don't know we crash on some deserted island planet somewhere. And just in case we do, I am also packing several dextro chickens and a whole year's worth of farming supplies just in case!
Shepard: Wow! But how is that teleporter coming along?
Tali: It's going great Shepard!
Shepard: /HIGH FIVE

#270
Roudy3006

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MadMackNT_os wrote...

That's an awful lot of text to say nothing.


Completely disagree...a lot was said with this statement.  Aside from the obvious paragraph everyone has noted which states they are working on addressing the lack of closure with the endings, I also wanted to point out these...

1. "The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback, and we’re planning to directly address it.....Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better."

              - My translation? They hear us (even if the word "some" makes us appear to be a small group), so keep it up.  Also, they probably realize that the quality of the ending, as well as their handling of the reaction up to this point, is subpar.

2. "Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary."

      - My translation?  Quit with the flaming.  I haven't been overly active in the movement to change the endings, but I also don't think they were particularly well crafted.  One thing I do know is that constructive criticism will go a lot further towards achieving "RetakeME3" movement than meaningless rage.  Not to mention all the flaming I've seen some people doing on these forums does nothing but promote the "entitled angry nerd rage from mom & dad's basement" stereotype.

Anyway, this is what I took away from it.  Thoughts?

PS - This is only the third time I've posted on these forums, so I apologize in advance if the formatting of my post is f'd up!

Modifié par Roudy3006, 21 mars 2012 - 04:17 .


#271
Sylvanfeather

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A very well written and worded response, certainly appreciated. It's a good message and I do feel badly that the people that worked so hard on the series are getting caught in the fracas. From my programming mind, what they did with the game nearly mind-boggling.

I really like the game, regardless as to how it ended. Kudos to those guys!

The only part of the message - the continued message - that plays on my nerves are the the lines about 'vocal minority' and 'well reviewed by critics'. Most of those critics don't have to pay for their copies and are in fact paid to play the game. Why is the scale of opinion always weighted in favour of the non-consumer base?

#272
Kosiji

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DLC = Bioware at PAX East explaining what the ending means to them. END OF DISCUSSION! :P

Modifié par Kosiji, 21 mars 2012 - 04:16 .


#273
ThePasserby

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His insistence on maintaining "artistic integrity" is worrying. To consider the tripe that is the ME3 ending to be artistic is downright ridiculous. For some reason, the writers are intent on making Shepard a tragic hero who achieves what is at best a pyrrhic victory before perishing.

I seriously doubt there will be any epic victory like in ME1.

Good bye, Bioware.

#274
Nelzeben

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Nothing he says is new in any way. They are listening - that's good, but we knew that already.

I'm not sure what to think about the constructive/destructive feedback thing. I didn't see too many destructive comments at all, so hopefully they don't just dismiss a lot of the feedback, because they deem it "destructive". Even a sarcastic statement can hold a lot of truth.

Yeah, it's nice to get another acknowledgement, but this didn't really convince me that they'll do anything about the ending.

#275
MattFini

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When Muzyka has to come out and make a statement that acknowledges the botched endings, you can bet they're worried.

But some of you aren't being realistic. If Muzyka admitted that the endings were terrible what do you guys think would happen? EVERY site would use that headline, it would spread like wildfire and ME3's sales would drop MORE.

This is not an option for them.

Instead, they acknowledged we're upset. And said that they're going to try and address that.

Hold the line guys, and try and see this as the good thing that it is.