883 réponses à ce sujet

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

My reaction to Dr. Ray's statement:

"That's the thing about getting old, Shepard. The platitudes get just as old." - Garrus

"Something feels... wrong." - Grunt

We haven't won anything yet. Nowhere did I see the words "new ending", or "we made a mistake". Hold the line, people. They're standing their ground. We have to stand ours.

[KeldorKatarn]

ichik wrote...

I’m honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback.

Priceless wording.

I don't know about anyone else, but if anyone I work with can't take constructive feedback, they get fired?
That doesn't take courage or strength, it takes simple professionalism?

You're honored to work with people who can actually take some critisism? THAT's the best you can say about them? Honestly? REALLY?

[RShara]

Sargerus wrote...

Blue Liara wrote...

Murkman4683 wrote...

April is not that far away people, seriously less than two weeks, patience is a virtue.

Telling us there is an announcement in April so we calm down is EXACTLY what they want. They want the issue out of the spotlight and out of the news.  As soon as we let off the pressure they begin to get the upperhand. Do not relent. Keep going on the forums, keep posting, keep demanding a change.

HOLD THE LINE!!! 

[Dragoonlordz]

DreamTension wrote...

yahtzo wrote...

It seems to me the best way to keep the "artistic integrity" intact is just to use the Indoctrination theory. That way, they don't actually have to change a thing, just add to it.

Yep.  Win win win

They will be adding to it, in the form of adding new content being DLC. That DCL will expand on questions people have regarding the ending and how it pans out in the long run. There will be no change to the core game and as DLC it will be optional if people wish to buy it (yes buy not free). They however will not rewrite their story but instead add to it in order for others to gain closure. There will be no new ending. Look to Dragon Age 2 for examples of how they deal with large negative feedback by creating new content that helps fans resolve issues with their (Biowares) story and the part the customer/fans played in shaping it to their own via choices then apply some common sense and realise the same will happen here. Most people who played that DLC for DA2 loved it and were very happy with the results the same will happen here.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 mars 2012 - 05:23 .

[blacqout]

As someone that was able to appreciate the ending of Mass Effect 3, it gladdens my heart to hear that he wishes to keep the game's artistic integrity in tact. It is important to not dumb yourself down for the masses.

He is wrong about ME3 being the company's best work though - that honour befalls Dragon Age II.

[Chank-bw]

I believe this is more misdirection. I will believe it when I see actual commitment. Hold the line.

[VigilancePress]

My takeaway from this blog post was (I'm paraphrasing my interpretations here, not quoting):


We hear you're angry, but we have feelings too. Please stop making personal attacks on our people.
- This is fine, though I won't stop calling out the quotes your people made which turned out to be incredibly misleading on the nature of gameplay elements, such as the number of endings or the fact that you cannot get the "Good" ending without playing multiplayer.

We are looking at ways to make you happy without destroying the artistic integrity of the existing product.
-I understand your concern. You want to make something that is additive and not "remove" material from the existing scenario. The problem is your existing scenario is so offensively bad from a storytelling perspective, it does not make me ever want to play the game again. Removing huge sections of the ending and replacing them with something *valid* is the only way I can personally see ever wanting to play this game, or any game in the series, again. It's going to be a long, hard road for you to win me back on this one. I understand your position, and I don't envy it.

Please be patient until April, when we will be able to make an announcement of some kind.
-Okay, I will be patient. But I won't be silent, and I won't be spending money on BioWare or EA products or DLC or anything else. My boycott will remain until you can give me news that makes me want to resume being a customer again.

As a footnote, I really think the Bioware people need to stop pointing to game reviews to try and justify their position. Game Review scores do nothing to mollify me or the other Retake Mass Effect folks. We see them as part of the campaign of misinformation that led us to make the mistake of trusting in BioWare's product. I have *serious* fundamental issues with these reviews because even if the story were completely awesome, I couldn't give Mass Effect better than an 80/100 score for gameplay. The game has the best combat of the series, but completely marginalizes everything that made the first game so much fun- the exploration, vehicles, being able to drop in and out of a vehicle in the same combat- or that the second game trimmed back on but still included (as DLC)- A vehicle that you could explore well-designed areas specifically designed for that vehicle. Also, none of the minigames (lockpicking or computer hacking) carried over, meaning that the combat has nothing to break it up except dialogue wheels.

Forcing "Horde Mode" multiplayer on us just to give them another avenue for charging us money did not improve the game, it merely gives them another way to charge us money. especially since I cannot finish the game with the best ending without playing it.

This game is fundamentally inferior in many ways to the previous installments, not superior. That I have to constantly pay more and more and get less and less content makes me very unsatisfied as a customer.

Cheers!

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

No epilogue, or "after the ending" content will be good enough. They have to change the ending or add new ones. Make it longer, happier, more detailed, and less nonsensical. For goodness sake, remove the "star child".

[Vromrig]

Feelings of writers, developers, irrelevant. Sadness to be expected. Should not attempt to be used as shield to deflect criticism.

Unacceptable ending. Fans highlight it.  Feeling upset does not change fact.

Modifié par Vromrig, 21 mars 2012 - 05:24 .

[robbyiscool]

tsd16 wrote...

Best post of this thread.  

I find it disconcerting a co-founder of bioware writes this, and all people can seem to do is make fun of him and lash out.   He friggin reached out and ADMITTED many of the points made are valid.  

and all most people are doing in this thread is attacking them.   Its one thing offering valid criticism in a professional manner, but then theres the people in this thread.

But he didn't!  He didn't admit to anything!

He patted his team on the back for a job well done, saying that critics liked it.  He then addressed that we wanted closue, but didnt even alude to our dissatisfaction with the plot holes, or the lack of choices/effects of choices.

He basically said, "we like it, sorry you don't, we'll try to make it so you get some more clousure while maintaining some of the 'artistic integrity' of what we really liked."

[Tonymac]

From that response - I think they will stay in denial.

They would rather count their millions now, rather than put in the effort to ensure their future. Thats ok, their loss. There are plenty of decent companies out there that didn't become mega-corp giants. They have good writers, and they listen to their fans. Those will be the companies getting my cash.

[New Generation]

blacqout wrote...

As someone that was able to appreciate the ending of Mass Effect 3, it gladdens my heart to hear that he wishes to keep the game's artistic integrity in tact. It is important to not dumb yourself down for the masses.

He is wrong about ME3 being the company's best work though - that honour befalls Dragon Age II.

Bwahahahahahah ROFL LLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLO. You serious:blink:????????

[NICKjnp]

Honestly there is no confirmation of a fix. It was only stating that there will be DLC and that they will address fan concerns. They put the two words in the same article but didn't state what the DLC would be anddidn't state how they would address the ending. Continue to voice your concerns and don't back down until they confirm a fix to the ending via DLC (one that actually addresses our concerns). And most importantly is watch the double talk from Marketting. Unless they state that there is a DLC to fix the ending then keep up the pressure.

[Daedalus1773]

Faunwea wrote...

 For some reason this article leaves me worried and disappointed rather than relieved...

Yep.

[Arppis]

People should remember it has been week, not a month. Even when it might feel like one for some.

[Dragoonlordz]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

No epilogue, or "after the ending" content will be good enough. They have to change the ending or add new ones. Make it longer, happier, more detailed, and less nonsensical. For goodness sake, remove the "star child".

That was and is not going to happen for exact reason I stated here.

[ImmovableMover]

The overall message seems to be one of not understanding the criticism and trying to downplay the amount of people who actually have criticism. At this point I see very little but PR spin.

I can imagine that niether Bioware nor EA can't be eager to paint this as a mistake, if they admit to releasing a Story-driven game with a broken ending it will be a PR nightmare; People won't trust EA to release a competent, finished game. I mean regular people, not "gamers" or "Fans", but just your ordinary joe who plays the game but isn't invested in any way further than light entertainment.

HOWEVER if they stick to their guns and ride the "Its just their subjective opinion, the ending isn't bad it's just different, It was meant to polarize" train they can shrug off the legitimate criticism as...well... entitled nerd rage about minuscule details. It's far easier to spin "A minority of die-hard fans are loudly complaining about not getting everything they wanted" than "We ****ed up so badly that we have to do it again".

This, In my opinion, is the best explanation for why Bioware is pushing the "Artistic Integrity" angle, despite a lot of the criticism being levied at common-or-garden errors and plot holes. Not their "Vision", not their bleak ending, hell not even the plot, but things like turning The Reapers into little more than Galactic Roomba's after spending three games characterizing them as sentient machines that are so independent they describe themselves in the first game as "Each reaper is a Nation unto itself".

Like I said in another thread - Treat this like you treated the book, Bioware. Acknowledge that things went wrong, errors made it through the net and correct them; You don't have to re-write the plot, just like "Deception" didn't need to be completely re-written, you just have to correct the errors.

I think you would be surprised how respected you would be for being mature about acknowledging mistakes, rather than trying to "Spin" it.

[Lancane]

I don't believe anyone set out to hurt Bioware, we simply demanded better of them. Humans are passionate creatures, always have been and always will be.

If I was to make an analogy of this whole mess and honestly, I'd say it's akin to someone dangling a big juicy porterhouse steak in front of a hungry lion and right before you give it the steak you accidentally drop it in elephant dung, the lion is going to think about it for a mere second and realize that while you may have clothing on and might not be tasty as the porterhouse, at least your not covered in elephant ****!

In lamen terms, Bioware promised this product which failed to deliver though they thought we'd still be happy only to find out it was the exact opposite and now people hungrier for what they promised and look more at them then before.

[theshuo]

Until there is a public statement concretely addressing concerns about the ending, and future plans, my feelings towards Bioware remain unchanged.
It's nice that they are listening. However, citing critic reviews does nothing; it convinces nobody who already dislikes the endings.

I don't know how they're going to fix this. I can't see them completely getting rid of the ending as it is now. Tacking on "closure" in the form of a few lame text boxes isn't going to cut it. The number of plot holes and inconsistencies really makes this difficult, unless they adopt the indoctrination theories.

Until more substantial annoucements are made, and more importantly, followed through with, I can't say my faith in Bioware is restored an iota. Sorry.

[Daedalus1773]

VigilancePress wrote...

My takeaway from this blog post was (I'm paraphrasing my interpretations here, not quoting):


We hear you're angry, but we have feelings too. Please stop making personal attacks on our people.
- This is fine, though I won't stop calling out the quotes your people made which turned out to be incredibly misleading on the nature of gameplay elements, such as the number of endings or the fact that you cannot get the "Good" ending without playing multiplayer.

We are looking at ways to make you happy without destroying the artistic integrity of the existing product.
-I understand your concern. You want to make something that is additive and not "remove" material from the existing scenario. The problem is your existing scenario is so offensively bad from a storytelling perspective, it does not make me ever want to play the game again. Removing huge sections of the ending and replacing them with something *valid* is the only way I can personally see ever wanting to play this game, or any game in the series, again. It's going to be a long, hard road for you to win me back on this one. I understand your position, and I don't envy it.

Please be patient until April, when we will be able to make an announcement of some kind.
-Okay, I will be patient. But I won't be silent, and I won't be spending money on BioWare or EA products or DLC or anything else. My boycott will remain until you can give me news that makes me want to resume being a customer again.

Well said.

[katamuro]

People i urge you to stay as calm as possible. After all one of BioWare's founders cant actually say "sorry we screwed up" and the starchild thing would have been acceptable if he was simply an AI or VI of the crucible or hidden on citadel but not some reaper controller.
So people take out of this article what you need that is they agree that there is a problem but they will not make announcements until April probably not until PAX.

[Everwarden]

majormajormmajor wrote...

"Ray Muzyka defends abortion of ending, dismisses opponents as small minority"

That, basically.

He points to the gaming 'journalists' who have EA ads plastered all over their websites like their opinion is something that would impress an angry fan. 

I can't believe he's trying to pull the 'artistic integrity' garbage. 

[adamdehass]

"Maintain Artist Integrity" aka "We like our ending"

We aint getting the ending options we want. They're, at most, going to address the plot holes and unanswered questions. Damn it.

[Untamed_skies]

sushismygen wrote...

I just can't beleieve that they are surprissed. The endings are completly detached from the rest of the game. It's like one person did the 98% of it and then got hit in the head by a brick so someone else had to finish it without bothering to check what happened in the game earlier on...All of us loved the game right up to the last 10 minutes or so. It's just this terrible ending...

Now for the critics...well they can't exactly say "Hey guys, the game is fantastic...except for the ending which completly sucks!" cuz no one would buy it. Endings is something that they can't revil, no matter if it's good or bad, it's something that has to be left unspoiled. So there you have it. The part of the game they are allowed to talk about was great so the review is great. Simple as that.
As for the artistic aspect of the ending...for the love of god...chosing color of the explotions is not art!
" So...guys...this ending doesn't fit at all...it doesn't make sense...it has nothing to do with player choices in previous games...what shall we do? Hey, let's call it art! Then we can always blame it on fans not getting it..."

Explaining the endings doesn't really help here. I just can't see how all the plot holes and this entire mess can be rationaly explained without altering the final events. And no, space magic doesn't cut it!

I do believe that they can still fix this or more like, I hope they still can fix this. After all they did pull off the rest of the game. It's just a shame that they didn't even see it turning out like this.

The art is in the symbology not in the colors that shoot from the Mass Relays. Notice how most of the people who like the endings fill in the gaps given and accept, understand and love the symbology the entire ending offers? They in fact don't want it touched at all because they view as beautiful and wonderfully thought out? I'm pretty sure they expected more of that and less of hurt fans. They were probably expecting hurt fans because they will never please everyone, but I expect they thought it'd be the opposite of what happened. Most would like the symbology and accept it and a few would scream murder.

As for explaining the ending, wouldn't that suggest filling in the plotholes and therefore making sense out of it? Nice thing about fiction it makes it a bit easier to explain the impossible.

[Asari23]

There's no way they can just fill up all of the plot holes with a few DLCs

The only way to fix this mess is to make a new ending, or make the indoc theory cannon, simple as.

Also trying to Protect the ending with the whole "you don't get it" argument is BULL****.

I get the symbology, I get what they where trying to say, and the ending still sucks.

Modifié par Asari23, 21 mars 2012 - 05:31 .