883 réponses à ce sujet

[Grifman1]

KeldorKatarn wrote...

Grifman1 wrote...

cdancidhe wrote...

I hate how they keep saying a minority. From the friends I have and all the facebook/tweets/forums I read, 98% dislike the ending. Get your facts together Bioware!!!!!

Do a word search, nowhere does he us the word "minority".  Who needs to get their facts together?

 the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players  

some, and futher limiting it by MOST loyal players. See here. MOST loyal, not our loyal players, or some of our loyal players, it is some of our MOST loyal players. That is limiting it THREE times. Some, most, loyal. Read as "Yeah well the fanboys are going nuts, but everybody else loves us"

Is it limiting?  Yes, because obviously people are not in 100% percent agreement on the ending so he couldn't say everyone.  And he couldn't say majority because every player of the game hasn't been asked, nor has there been a statistically valid poll of players taken.  However, using the terms "some" or "most loyal" does not mean "minority" unless the English language has changed.  "Some" and "most loyal" are accurate terms given what Bioware actually knows.  Neither term indicates a definite quality.  So if you think this means "minority, then you are reading your own beliefs into what he said.

[DungeonHoek]

Well, I've been taking this blog to friends of mine, getting their opinion on what Ray Muzyka has said.

And my one friend who has a background in law and military intel broke it down like this.

"He's basically saying this

He's kinda stepping between the player and his people, and saying that's enough. We need to accept that the feedback we're recieving indicates we didn't do everything right. But he also highlights that they did get ALOT right with the game."

Which I should add the fanbase HAS been saying themselves.<--Me

"He goes on to state that they will address the ending, and the CONSTRUCTIVE feedback they're getting.

But. they will NOT accept the negative feedback even if its based on truths. IE: The inane ravings that have been seen in some cases. Personal attacks; etc"

"I'm thinking this is their way of saying. "Yes, we will work on it. But no, we won't be bullied"

Now, this comes from a man I trust very deeply. And whome I know is also a fan of Mass Effect, and it's overall strengths. That being the story telling and allowing you to shape your own story, etc. He confirm's what I thought, as my other friends are of similar opinion.

I think at this point, all that is needed is to wait and watch.

[alberta]

I'll merely repost.

megabug7 wrote...

kunzite wrote...

alberta wrote...

Hold up people - I follow politics very closely and I do know from politics when one of the very top officials makes a statement in the form of a strong hint that the pressure has reached the very top of the food chain - then we can all rest assured the ending saga has also reached the top of the BW food chain as well. There is very active discussions going on behind the scenes about the ending problem - and as in politics the top usually acknowledges their problem in the form of hints. Mild blaming is the usual course of action as BW themselves did in this statement.

What is extremely important - is to acknowledge they have a problem which the BW statement clearly acknowledged - now BW is in active talks how to resolve the problem given their written end, and then how to move beyond that point and continue the Sheppard saga with another game to bring full closure to this series. If you read what they're planning from their hints this is where BW is now concentrating their thinking. It's very clearly demonstrated for the rest of his statements they see a full game yet to be delivered.

I was going to make a similar point. This is not just some intern fluffer posting a response. This is the Bioware Co-Founder. The General Manager. While many people are busy getting upset by what was not said, look at some of the stuff that was said. They are investigating options. They are developing more content, including full games. the ME universe is not gone, not destroyed. Thus....there must be things they are planning.

They didnt expect our reaction, nor the intensity of that reaction, and for the GM/Co-Founder to appeal to us, rather than Casey or Chris or any of the other names normally assocaited with ME....this is a big deal. We are at the top, and we most certainly have their attention.

That in itself is giving me reason to hold the line a bit longer. To trust, at least until April, to see what they will come up with. I wont buy any DLC or products between now and then, but I reserve the right to do so if I like what I hear come April.

Let's not get upset, folks. It's a step in the right direction.

Well said

[KeldorKatarn]

I’m honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback.

You know what takes courage and strength? You really want to know?

Stepping in front of a camera like you guys could so often before this desaster, and admitting your mistake.

Not hiding in every second sentence behind critics.

Having an open DIRECT dialogue with your fans.

Logging on to the forums PERSONALLY and discussing solutions with us.

THAT takes courage and strength.

Sending some errand boy to post a written up PR release that got proofread 100 times and says absolutely nothing, hiding behind critics, calling us a minority and not even daring to ever adress us directly, constantly falling back on the "we have the house right so if you critisize us too much we'll get rid of you" crap. That doesn't take courage, that's the easy way out.



And since a lot of people keep asking why some people here including me are STILL pissed. I can explain that in very simple words:

Imagine you are part of Shepard's squad. Something went terribly wrong. To a degree that Garrus feels personally hurt and Liara started crying over it.

Now what would Shepard do?

• Would he send everyone a nice email, full of phrases, closing with "I'm listening"?
• Would he maybe step in front of them, personally, up close telling them that he screwed up bad but that he will bust his ass to make up for it because he goddamn knows how much these people have done for him and that he never wants to lose them?

Answer that and you know why I am pissed, ok?

Modifié par KeldorKatarn, 21 mars 2012 - 05:44 .

[WarBaby2]

Actually, he is not defending the team... he is defending Walters and Hudson... I cannot fathom why.

[CreepingGeth]

blacqout wrote...
As someone that was able to appreciate the ending of Mass Effect 3, it gladdens my heart to hear that he wishes to keep the game's artistic integrity in tact. It is important to not dumb yourself down for the masses.

hahahaha

Modifié par CreepingGeth, 21 mars 2012 - 05:31 .

[VigilancePress]

Vromrig wrote...

Feelings of writers, developers, irrelevant. Sadness to be expected. Should not attempt to be used as shield to deflect criticism.

Unacceptable ending. Fans highlight it.  Feeling upset does not change fact.

Bahahahaha! 

Best response I've read.

Nicely put.

[Grasich]

katamuro wrote...

People i urge you to stay as calm as possible. After all one of BioWare's founders cant actually say "sorry we screwed up" and the starchild thing would have been acceptable if he was simply an AI or VI of the crucible or hidden on citadel but not some reaper controller.
So people take out of this article what you need that is they agree that there is a problem but they will not make announcements until April probably not until PAX.

They can most certainly admit to screwing up. Not yet, I understand that, but this isn't something that they "can't" do. See Broken Steel. A quote from Todd: "We made a mistake."

[blacqout]

New Generation wrote...

blacqout wrote...

As someone that was able to appreciate the ending of Mass Effect 3, it gladdens my heart to hear that he wishes to keep the game's artistic integrity in tact. It is important to not dumb yourself down for the masses.

He is wrong about ME3 being the company's best work though - that honour befalls Dragon Age II.

Bwahahahahahah ROFL LLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLO. You serious:blink:????????

I do not joke, Serah.

I'm not sure if it's because of my soaring intellect or the fact that i have a lot of other things going on in my life more worthy of nitpicking, but i enjoyed the ending of Mass Effect 3 and saw it as a fitting conclusion to the series.

Dragon Age II is still the better game though.

[brusher225]

MwRDKY wrote...

brusher225 wrote...

The most important thing about that letter to me is his defending the ending. That means they expected that to be the true ending. There was never a REAL ending in the works. That was supposed to be it.

This is not good. I can understand his defending it but it makes our chances of getting to finish the war with the Reapers not good.

True, and is there any more heavier fed involvement we can bring down on Bioware?

I wouldn't personally go there. But I can certainly understand the anger. This makes me not want to play any DLC, free or not, unless we know we're going to get to finish the battle. I don't mean that to be a threat in any way. I'm speaking honestly. I simply  won't have any desire to play any DLC while knowing it might all be for nothing.  

Isn't what we all really want is to finish what we all worked so hard to prepair for? Talk about closure. I beleive that's the only kind of real closure that would appease my feelings about this. But after reading that letter, my hopes aren't very high. 

[Meanfrey]

They charge us 49$ calling their cat "a puppy", and when we say it's fraud, they call it "art integrity".

Well played, Bioware.

[Ermacomat]

Yep people...for me this is it...for me this sounds like this ending was the plan all along...
Them admitting this shows to me that its time to let go of Bioware.
I dont want to get "hurt" another time in my expectations by waiting for an end to a trilogy I used to love only to see them shatter it into tiny pieces in the end. I dont even understand how someone thought this would be a good idea but yeah...artistic integrity it is....

Marauder Shields was right after all. May he rest in peace together with whats left of the Mass Effect Universe I used to love. I'll watch Bioware burn from afar.

End of the line...fare well people!

[Grifman1]

WarBaby2 wrote...

Actually, he is not defending the team... he is defending Walters and Hudson... I cannot fathom why.

Maybe because they are good employees whose careers shouldn't be trashed because of one mistake?!?  You think?  Like many have said, they loved the game until the last 10 minutes.  Should these guys be tossed under the bus for that by their boss?  I'd hope that if I ever made a mistake, my boss would acknowledge it but also have my back.

[Feomatar]

I'm also kind of worried that they just put an epilogue in the game but not changing the actual ending with the space magic. In my opinion they should adapt the whole indoctrination thing and build a new ending around it. But I'm afraid that won't happen. The important thing for us right now it to be patient and civilized. Let's hope that BioWare will come to the conclusion that by making a decent new ending all parties will be satisfied, them included.

Until then: Hold the line!

[Roninraver]

Vromrig wrote...

lolwot wrote...

I'm not even remotely interested in an expanded version of the current ending, and I don't think I'm alone in that. Unless this is a total rewrite of the ending, then I think this would be a wasted effort.

Expanded or inclusive version of current ending would be poor move.  Reinforces anger.  Like watching car crash of loved one.  Told would feel better if saw new footage.  Realize same gorey details from different camera angle.  Does not help closure.  Loved one still dead.

This post, right here?  This post by Vromrig made me choke up a little, reminded me of Mordin.

The laughs I had in ME2 as he sang "Scientist Salarian."  The tears I held back as he released the genophage cure on Tuchanka, right before his death.


Those scenes and many others throughout the Mass Effect series have elicited real emotional response from me.  That is an incredible feat, considering that to most the medium of video games is still just child's play.

The ending to ME3 elicited no emotion from me.  Not even anger.
It was just... there.  A cold, sterile thing that I have picked over and analyzed since early this month.
The plot holes, uncharacteristic behaviors, logical inconsistencies,  Deus Ex, Space Magic, etc... I've thought about the ending a lot, but never once have I had any feelings about it.

That should trigger a warning klaxon, Bioware.


This ending is devoid of feeling, because it is so divorced from everything we know to be true about the Mass Effect universe up until the last 10 minutes of the final installment.

The weight of choice is discarded, the motivations and actions of beloved characters are clearly counter to everything we know about them, the laws of physics in the Mass Effect universe established by YOU are even ignored.

Please, I beg you Bioware.  Do not attemt to further "clarify" or bring "closure" to this ending.  It is not worth saving.
Lance this festering boil before you lose the limb.

Give us NEW endings (plural, with an 's') that reflect real and meaningful player choice and are consistent with the Mass Effect lore, the physics of the Mass Effect galaxy and the characters that live within it.

[Tygur]

Wasn't there a huge discussion about Mass Effect series being created by fans? That means its OUR artistic integrity as well, and many of us didn't have the current end as our artistic vision.

[BearcatPrideEZF]

More bull****.

[jspiess]

Grasich wrote...

katamuro wrote...

People i urge you to stay as calm as possible. After all one of BioWare's founders cant actually say "sorry we screwed up" and the starchild thing would have been acceptable if he was simply an AI or VI of the crucible or hidden on citadel but not some reaper controller.
So people take out of this article what you need that is they agree that there is a problem but they will not make announcements until April probably not until PAX.

They can most certainly admit to screwing up. Not yet, I understand that, but this isn't something that they "can't" do. See Broken Steel. A quote from Todd: "We made a mistake."

Exactly, T Howard had the stones to do so, why can't he?

[shadowchaser076]

I posted this on their ME2 Facebook page

In response to Co-Founder Ray Muzyka: I loved ME3, I think we all love ME3 up until the last 10 minutes. It just doesn't make sense for the entire franchise. You have so many plotholes you can drive through. Here are some of those plot holes:
1. Why isn't Shepard in his armor after the blast?
2. Where are my squadmates after the blast?
3. How Did Anderson get to the control panel before me since he was way behind me when the whole team got blasted?
4. Where does the TIM come from in that room? Throughout the walkway, there was no where to hide
5. Everyone aboard the Citadel was dead except the Keepers who were still working!
6. The three endings were pretty similar. Two of them in which the Reapers really win and one Shepard wins by refusing indoctrination.
7. Shepard is breathing in concrete rubble, there was no concrete on the Citadel. Unless it went burning crashing back to Earth. Doubtful Shepard would survive a second re-entry crash.
8. If the Mass Effect Relays were destroyed, shouldn't they go Supernova like the one did in The Arrival?
9. If the Mass Relays are destroyed, aren't all the races that came to help stranded in the SOL System?
10. Why was Normandy running away, not fighting Harbinger and why did it get sucked into a "black hole"?
11. If the Normandy lost power, did all the other ships lose power too?
12. Were the other ships sucked into a black hole too?
13. On the empty planet, Normandy opens its doors and there's a couple of squadmates that walk out, two of them that were with me on the ground in London, how did they get back on the Normandy?

The endings basically throughout whatever choices we made throughout the trilogy. Its has if they didn't even matter anymore. When ME2 was released. Casey Hudson said numerous times we would have at least 16 different endings, no one would have the same conclusion to their story. We all didn't receive that. We got the same 3 endings with different colors. We wanted endings that reflected our choices. That was the main point of the mass Effect series, our choices. We don't care if Shepard lives or dies. We want closure to our beloved characters, races, the galaxy, etc...We didn't get that and this is why we are upset.

Think about it, its as if the Lord of the Rings ended with Sam and Frodo on top of the rocks and fades to black. Its as if in Return of the Jedi, The Death Star explodes and thats the end of the movie, or if the Death Star explodes and wipes out the entire Rebellion fleet and destroys Endor as well with everyone on it. The Mass Effect 3 endings are much worse than that. The last 10 minutes ruins the entire franchise. It could possibly be one of the worst endings to any sci-fi genre.

I agree the ME franchise is a work of art, but its an unfinished piece of art. I'm an artist for a living and I know when something doesn't look right and needs to be fixed. All pieces of art can be fixed when it really needs to be. Mass Effect 3's ending needs to be fixed. Please give us what were promised since ME2.

Thank you.

[Asari23]

And when he said "constructive feedback" he really meant any thing that states us of making a mistake we will ignore.

[Brother Kosh]

I hate to say this guys but from that post of Ray Muzyka, it looks like they are listening to us but they aren't going to 'change' the ending.  He mentioned several times about the artistic choice made in making ME3 and while I don’t agree with the ending, I personally think it's a horrible scar on what has been a phenomenal series, I can agree that the writers who did make the current ending are not going to be happy that a mob of screaming fans (a mob it it's tens of thousands) are demanding a rewrite of their story.

Ray Muzyka mentioned that there is currently work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions that we have.  Unless we all missed a massive plot element regarding why Joker felt the need to leave, or how our squad mates suddenly acquired teleports their added content will have to either explain this or just remove it in favour for something that actually makes sense.

I know a lot of people want the indoctrination ending, I'm one of them.  I also know a lot of people don’t and are happy with the 'bitter sad' ending we got.  While I don't mind bitter sad and to steal someone else’s words, what we currently have is nothing but bitter with a side of death.  The things mentioned above about the Normandy and the crew simply make no sense, no matter how you spin it.

We will have to wait until April to see what they had lined up for us but right now, I really don't see them repairing the ending, simply slapping a band aid on it and telling is to walk it off.  I still hope though that they do make a DLC ending, I want to see what happened to everyone after the final battle, and I want to see Shepard pull though against all odds.

If people don’t want the extended ending, don’t download the changed ending DLC, simple.

[Sc2mashimaro]

That the newest attempt to let fans know what the team at Bioware is thinking and what direction they are moving in is met with unwarranted amounts of cynicism no longer surprises me. I know there are other reasonable people here, reading and not responding who want endgame content to be released, so on their behalf and my own: thank you, Ray Muzyka, for your thoughtful reply.

It is always hard to have any aspect of your creative work torn down by criticism and I think it speaks highly of you and your team that you are swallowing your pride and accepting that criticism. The more feedback I hear from you, the more confident I become that you will make a good-faith effort to address the problems we have with the endings. I think almost all of the "Retake Mass Effect" crowd would agree that, up until the ending, Mass Effect 3 *was* the most engaging, emotional, and powerful story-telling that Bioware has ever accomplished. I think we would agree that, sans the ending, Mass Effect 3 really was the best work you and your team have done. It is because of the excellence of that work that I am confident that in addressing the thematic and rhetorical inconsistencies of the ending the Mass Effect 3 team will be able to craft an ending worthy of the masterpiece that is the rest of the game.

To fellow BSNers, this is another obvious move towards Bioware accepting our perspective and even includes the promise that plans for content to address the ending are being drawn up AS WE SPEAK. This is good news and cannot be spun otherwise by any reasonable person. Keep on holding the line and know that our message is getting through. We will never get every single thing we want, but I honestly believe that Bioware intends to make a good-faith effort to resolve as many issues with the ending as they can. Be happy! This is good news! And, of course, keep on holding the line!

[UprightMan]

I find it disturbing and insulting to continue throwing the "professional critics' high rating" in my face. Couple that with their continuing defense of the given Ending (singular, instead of Ray's use of the plural Endings) adds another slap to the face. Say all you want about artistic integrity but it really does come down to high sales figures, which gives Bioware more money to continue producing new "artistic" games.

To say the 75 professional critics are directly responsible for ME3 success would be misleading as they as far as I know did not pay you for the experience and will not likely pay for any upcoming DLC. And an aside I don't think they paid for the previous 2 Mass Effect games and all their DLCs (unlike myself for example) But for argument sake lets just say every critic that praised ME3 as a Whole and Complete, flawed Ending and all game did fork out the $$.

So 75 critics @$60/game = $4500
whereas 50,000 "vocal minority" fans @60/game = $3,000,000 (more if you count CE and Day 1 DLC purchases, even more if you count all the Merch tie-in)

Those 50,000 that you, Bioware are now Officially acknowledging speak with their wallets and could account for $500,000 in lost sales per any DLC you wish to release in the near future. And this is not mentioning the silent majority those that do not visit these forums, those that may or may not be long-time ME fans who have also invested plenty of time and more importantly money in the ME trilogy also Hate or at the very least very very dissatisfied with ME3 ending and will also not purchase any ME3 DLC. This could end up like DA2 sales figures, with so much declining sales over the next 8-9 weeks that DA2 has no Ultimate Edition and a planned DLC expansion was recently cancelled.

I'm one of your fan that was absolutely disgusted with everything after the VentKidGod after putting much thoughts in your Ending, that the only way to find resolution was to take it completely out of my game (long live Marauder Shields!) Any DLC to explain your Ending or fill its numerous plot holes is Not Acceptable to me and more insulting as you are assuming I'm just too stupid to not understand your artistic vision for that Ending. I for one, would like plural Endings, as promised, whether it be happy or tragic, be it Paragon or Renegade or something in-between, but make them vastly different from each other, even include your own original if it makes sense to the overall narrative but give me a real Choice and the subsequent closure based on said Choice. And again I will be speaking with my wallet, if Bioware comes through with this.

The only positive I have is that the CEO and co-founder has made an Official statement, even if it is layered in PR-speak and that there is a timeframe of more information coming in April.

So until then...My Choices Matter to Hold the Line.

[Meruvian]

blacqout wrote...

New Generation wrote...

blacqout wrote...

As someone that was able to appreciate the ending of Mass Effect 3, it gladdens my heart to hear that he wishes to keep the game's artistic integrity in tact. It is important to not dumb yourself down for the masses.

He is wrong about ME3 being the company's best work though - that honour befalls Dragon Age II.

Bwahahahahahah ROFL LLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLO. You serious:blink:????????

I do not joke, Serah.

I'm not sure if it's because of my soaring intellect or the fact that i have a lot of other things going on in my life more worthy of nitpicking, but i enjoyed the ending of Mass Effect 3 and saw it as a fitting conclusion to the series.

Dragon Age II is still the better game though.

http://i1050.photobu...serious_pug.jpg 

Modifié par Meruvian, 21 mars 2012 - 05:39 .

[Daedalus1773]

A Forbes article, on Ray Muzyka's "apology":

http://www.forbes.co...ending-sort-of/

Modifié par Daedalus1773, 21 mars 2012 - 05:39 .