883 réponses à ce sujet

[KONG33]

The difference between the fans and the critics-The critics didn't finish OR pay for the game. The fans did.

[BunnyisCthulhu]

Long rambling is long...

I do appreciate Dr. Muzyka taking the time to respond and I want to give my thanks to him for taking the time to do so. I also agree with him in that the team should be proud of most of the game, although it had its flaws (the ME2 romances being sidelined, Tali's face, among other things) Mass Effect 3 was an enjoyable game... It even converted me to Multiplayer, and I sincerely wish I could express my thanks to all who worked on it over the years and that I could spread the word of just how great this series is, even encourage them to purchase the games.

However, this is where I have to disagree.

I cannot in good conscience do any of these things when I know this ending lies in wait for us. I believe it does the franchise and it's creators no justice and I can only express genuine surprise if *all* of the writers and team were proud of that ending.
The player is effectively robbed of their ability to truely choose and is presented  with something that simply comes across as 'a', 'b' and 'c' and throws the previously established lore out of the window. The 'a', 'b' and 'c' feeling is reinforced by the near identical cutscenes we are presented with after our choices. We are then presented with an additional cutscene that is completely out of our control and an epilogue that does nothing to address the additional issues we have worked so hard towards ending one way or the other.
We were promised a wide variety of endings and closure, are the PR definitions of these words truely that different from ours?
The very fact that these things were promised and not delivered is greatly disconcerting to myself as a long term fan. It brings into question my future with the company, if BioWare believes this is an acceptable way to end a franchise, do i really want to grow invested in it? Do I really want to spend my money there? 
No.
Why spend money on DLC when I know it will mean nothing in the end? Why buy a prequel when I know this will happen? Why replay the game I greatly enjoy when I know I cannot complete it in the end because I find the ending so illogical?
Dr Muzyka brought up that this is a work of art, and I agree but I must also point out that artwork is considered a failure when it cannot portray its meaning without an in depth explanation.

Something else I find disconcerting is that a few of those critics that he would have gladly pointed towards have since acknowledged that there might well be an issue with the ending, or have at least considered our reactions important enough to write articles about.
Why were't these ammendments acknowledged?
Why hasn't the media which has joined us in pointing out the flaws with the ending been acknowledged? 
It isn't just us fans who have raised concerns and if 50,000 is considered a minority, then all I can say is that I'm impressed that BioWare is doing so well that you can consider it to be a minority.

The very last thing I want to do is see this do any lasting damage to the company.  I loved the games for being unique in companion interactions, in depth story and beautiful artwork. I want to continue supporting the teams and I certainly want to see more done with the Mass Effect franchise but not when we are given an ending like this. I do not want to encourage the belief that this type of ending is acceptable in *any* game.

Therefore, I cannot feel any reassurance in this response. I cannot sum up any optimism in this any longer.

I can only hope that April brings better news and a good compromise between BioWare and the fans. 

[Kurokenshi]

Arppis wrote...

People should remember it has been week, not a month. Even when it might feel like one for some.

No it's been 2 weeks since launch.

[Topsider]

The current endings lack exposition, coming out of the blue somewhat. Think of them as summaries of a larger story. DLC can fill in the blanks. Sure, it should've been in the game itself but all 3 ending variations can provide wildly different DLC if they do it justice.
- control- synthesis- destroy
The aftermaths should not be remotely similar. Destroy seems to be the bleakest, but how would survivors react to being part synthetic, or Shepard as the Reaper God? That's got to feel like a defeat.

[NICKjnp]

@Grasich
And that quote is why I trust Bethesda. I know their games aren't perfect but they do listen to their fans and try to make it a better experience when fans have an issue.

[Neophoenix 78]

I would have loved to have seen the ramifications of Rannoch after I unified them. Years from now being able to see them without suits thanks to the Geth. Would have loved to see how the genophage ended up. Did the Krogran rebel again, or were they instead in a Renaissance?

Nope Here are some colors and we stand by those colors as art. People loved our games. Critics love our games. People loved our ending so much that one charity profited from our mistake. We will compound this mistake but not admitting our mistake. Not promise free DLC to fix something we messed up. People will still be angry now because we did not admit fault. We blame you for not getting our art. We say you are the minority but we will throw you a bone and look in it a couple weeks from now.

We will act surprised when you claim our ending that was stated to not have only 3 direct endings has in fact... 3 direct endings. We will not address this but say we are looking into it. Why? Because our wallets are being hit. Amazon is taking back our game. We are losing money and respect.

I will make an appearance and fix this all by talking down to people. Sorry but no real admission of guilt will only compound this issue. Address the elephant in the room. Do not just try to brush it aside. That is what makes customers angry. Yes fans are customers too. The same ones that probably own ME1, ME2, ME3, DA:O, DA2, KOTOR, KOTOR2.

We are customers and we have complaints. If i go to a restaurant and I was promised a Med Rare steak and I get a Well Done steak I better get compensated instead of being told well I will look into this issue in the kitchen but the cook felt that the steak would be better this way. I know you were told this way but no really trust us its better this way. Wonder why DA2 only had 2 DLC? Wonder how much money that cost in the end?

We are reading his blog for a reason people. Constant pressure. Be honest. Be civil. But do not back down in the slightest. We have them paying attention at this point. Do not loose the momentum. And for the sake of not just ME3 but possibly all gaming in the future.. HOLD THE LINE AND HAVE SOLIDARITY

[robertm2]

i can deal with what he said. trying to add closure for the people who didnt like the ending( i personally loved it) without changing anything about it and thus preventing the destruction artists rights for video game creators. too bad half of the people on this thread still want to complain. ive invested hundreds of hours and multiple playthroughs in all of the games but i still see no reason to feel that bioware did me wrong by creating an ending they thought would be good. i loved it some didnt but that doesnt mean they should have to spend time making dlc for those people when that time could be spent doing something cooler for dlc.

[Arppis]

Haus of Dye wrote...

"Our first instinct is to defend our work and point to the high ratings offered by critics – but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility..."

"...However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s."

Isn't that contradicting?

Taking both accounts to consideration, nope.

[DeepChild]

Regardless of whether or not the indoctrination theory is canon (which is the only thing that I've seen that makes any sense out of the endings), this at least gives me hope that there will be significant changes made.

I just want them to make this right. This game, this series, represents the greatest gaming experience of my life (over the original Deus Ex, Final Fantasy VI, Metroid). I'm hoping, begging, for a conclusion worthy of such a masterpiece.

[TODD9999]

I'm not celebrating. Bioware does not have my trust that its new content will be satisfactory; it did have my trust for the ending, but failed dramatically on that score. I will continue to tell people I thought the ending was godawful, inappropriate, and damages the entire franchise. I will continue to not buy DLC, to not plan to buy Bioware games, to think carefully before buying an EA game.

However, I do appreciate that a blog was posted, and I am hopeful that the new content will be satisfactory. So, I have begun allowing myself to think about additional playthroughs.

So, thanks to Dr. Muzyka for making that response. I will be watching, and when this new content is released, I will reevaluate how I feel about the game, the franchise, Bioware, and EA and see if there has been improvement.

[Silrian]

Can somebody make a poll on who agrees art has democratic aspects? Because I for one think that Bioware shouldn't change a single byte because people don't 'like' the ending. If the ending as it is now is what the writers imagined it to be all along than that's how it is.

I just think the fans deserve clarity on whether Shepard is still alive after the best destroy ending and if so how that's possible.

[Grasich]

NICKjnp wrote...

@Grasich
And that quote is why I trust Bethesda. I know their games aren't perfect but they do listen to their fans and try to make it a better experience when fans have an issue.

Exactly. It's one of the big reasons I have no fear about preordering from them. If they mess up royally, I can be sure they'll do something about it.

With Bioware now... who knows, we'll just have to see I guess.

Hold the line.

[KeldorKatarn]

seek37 wrote...
I'm just in disbelief that he seems to refer to the critics as a shield to fan criticism. It feels almost insulting... many of us have poured 5 years into this game and for him to hold critics who have played maybe a day or 2 in higher regard seems downright undermining.

This!
Saying it again:
Imagine you are part of Shepard's squad. Something went terribly wrong. To a degree that Garrus feels personally hurt and Liara started crying over it.
Now what would Shepard do?

• Would he send everyone a nice email, full of phrases, closing with "I'm listening"? Maybe even stating that "The press loves what I did"?
• Would he maybe step in front of them, personally, up close telling them that he screwed up bad but that he will bust his ass to make up for it because he goddamn knows how much these people have done for him and that he never wants to lose them?

And that guy dares talking about courage and strength...

Modifié par KeldorKatarn, 21 mars 2012 - 05:58 .

[Faded-Myth]

While I obviously have my own emotional opinions about some of the things he discusses that I don't necessarily agree with, this is about as close an apology as we're going to get. In the end, I'm grateful that Ray Muzyka responded. It's clear more than ever that this whole debacle hasn't gone unnoticed. If Muzyka is replying to the community, then it's as far up the chain as it's going to go.

There are a lot of things I like about this article, ultimately. For one, it proves that BioWare does, in ways that are going to be accepted in various emotions depending whom you ask, care about its fans. I've never really considered Mass Effect's ending to be a sign that BioWare's opinion of its core fans was negligible. Was it a mistake? YES. They couldn't have botched the ending harder if they tried. But I get the feeling that the developers honestly thought they were on to a good thing. Clearly, they missed the mark, and I would have liked a more open admission. But while the occasional promise of being heard was irritating, in itself it was proof we weren't being ignored. They did a really frustrating way of showing it. I get the impression though that it's been just as frustrating and difficult for them as it has been to us.

Is this the big admission of failure and promise of a whole new ending that would appease the majority of people who played this game that I would have liked? No. Is it acknowledgment that it's more than some small minority of loyal fans who are simply feeling uptight and entitled about getting their way? No. But I think if Ray Muzyka has been brought in to talk about things, it's clearly an important issue to them. BioWare isn't some bully standing behind a bigger one. They're a business doing what they can to address a passionate fanbase while protecting their image. If I was a developer, I'd probably be a little more open about my mistakes, but from BioWare I think this is pretty close.

Either way, April should be very interesting.

[Rockpopple]

If they end up explaining the ending so that it makes sense, that'd be good enough for me.

[Grasich]

KeldorKatarn wrote...

seek37 wrote...
I'm just in disbelief that he seems to refer to the critics as a shield to fan criticism. It feels almost insulting... many of us have poured 5 years into this game and for him to hold critics who have played maybe a day or 2 in higher regard seems downright undermining.

This!
Saying it again:
Imagine you are part of Shepard's squad. Something went terribly wrong. To a degree that Garrus feels personally hurt and Liara started crying over it.
Now what would Shepard do?

• Would he send everyone a nice email, full of phrases, closing with "I'm listening"? Maybe even stating that "The press loves what I did"?
• Would he maybe step in front of them, personally, up close telling them that he screwed up bad but that he will bust his ass to make up for it because he goddamn knows how much these people have done for him and that he never wants to lose them?

And that guy dares talking about courage and strength...

This really made me want a bumper sticker or something with "WWCSD" - "What Would Commander Shepard Do?"

[beserker7]

NekOoNinja wrote...

Still dismissing the fact that most players don't like the finale, and blame it to "the most ardent fans".

Dear Bioware,
prior to ME 3's release, I added about 30 people form BSN to my XBL friendslist who were going to play the game. Additionally, ten others I met in different game, so lets make this 40 people.

NONE of them liked the ending. And some of them aren't even passionate fans! These who aren't just said "WTF is this sh*t" (literally) and went on playing something else out of disappointment.

Those who are indeed ardent fans of the franchise, were playing the more lighthearted multiplayer to make the bad taste go away, discussing it all over voice chat. And they were all echoing the same darn thing, every darn point.

The most painful thing: There's one of the probably greatest Mass Effect fans ever among them. Prior he was all excited, bought tons of merchandise, he was SO happy about ME3. Then the bomb dropped, he hasn't been the same ever since. His disappointment is undescribable.

So much for minority.

Please Bioware moderators, just send this one guys post to the doctors,Hudson, Walters, Gamble and the entire company. This is what honestly is happening. It is an honest majority of people who played and beat the game that find the lack of any choice, closure, meaning in the endings aweful and not in line with the other 2 games they loved.

The more serious the fan, the more serious the dissapointment. I think you should replay ME1 AND ME2. Think maybe you should stick to those ending formulas. Someone who played hundreds of hours of Shepard story might want to be the hero and live and see an epilogue of his choices. Some might want to blow it all up, which was the only real option we had, still want to see epilogue with squamates, planets, races war assets represented in final battle at least.

Honestly, within a week people here made flow charts showing how all you choices in ME3 could show up in end with different choice, getting a hero live, neutral live, renegade live or die based on completion, just like in Mass Effect 2. I don't see why the ME2 ending formula was thrown out in favor of one ending, three colors and a crappy unexplained Normandy flee battle crash scene. Thats not Mass Effect or art. 

Thanks to founder Ray for responding and giving some hope.

P.S. To Ray & Greg founders of Bioware... For this whole situation to even happen and the ending to be released as it was, should be a HUGE wake up call that some key members of the staff invloved in the end game final approval/writing are not in touch with the majority of players and do not appear to be able to disern quality or lack of, concerning various elements in your games. 

Modifié par beserker7, 21 mars 2012 - 06:05 .

[Silrian]

DeepChild wrote...

Regardless of whether or not the indoctrination theory is canon (which is the only thing that I've seen that makes any sense out of the endings), this at least gives me hope that there will be significant changes made.

I just want them to make this right. This game, this series, represents the greatest gaming experience of my life (over the original Deus Ex, Final Fantasy VI, Metroid). I'm hoping, begging, for a conclusion worthy of such a masterpiece.

I for one second this.

[Aerevane]

KeldorKatarn wrote...

seek37 wrote...
I'm just in disbelief that he seems to refer to the critics as a shield to fan criticism. It feels almost insulting... many of us have poured 5 years into this game and for him to hold critics who have played maybe a day or 2 in higher regard seems downright undermining.

This!
Saying it again:
Imagine you are part of Shepard's squad. Something went terribly wrong. To a degree that Garrus feels personally hurt and Liara started crying over it.
Now what would Shepard do?

• Would he send everyone a nice email, full of phrases, closing with "I'm listening"? Maybe even stating that "The press loves what I did"?
• Would he maybe step in front of them, personally, up close telling them that he screwed up bad but that he will bust his ass to make up for it because he goddamn knows how much these people have done for him and that he never wants to lose them?

And that guy dares talking about courage and strength...

You don't need courage when you can find a new fanbase among the GoW public. Thank you for helping BioWare become such a large company, but you can now cry and die. That's in a nutsshell what Mazyka says.

[myrmecophilous]

What I got out of that was "look forward to many 10$ DLCs!" and "we're sticking with the endings" and "we're a AAA title so naturally we got 95+ scores from professional critics so **** off".

I'm done. Goodbye Mass Effect.

[Coder4Hire]

Man, that statement is pure PR genius!

But seriously, games aren't art. If they were, you would have addressed all the bugs before you released the game.

But hey, it’s better than nothing; Which is still what I'm expecting.

I'm just hoping they try to explain "star child" and how he destroys every theme in the series within 5 minutes. It's not space magic any more, it's ART!

[Jamie9]

myrmecophilous wrote...

What I got out of that was "look forward to many 10$ DLCs!" and "we're sticking with the endings" and "we're a AAA title so naturally we got 95+ scores from professional critics so **** off".

I'm done. Goodbye Mass Effect.

Seconded. I'm not buying anything from Bioware. If I see they release new endings for FREE, I MIGHT download them and play them, in which case my trust MIGHT be slightly repaired. But I sincerely doubt it.

[mattynutz]

I didn't hear "We made a huge mistake and you as the consumer matter to us, so we're going to fix that. We'll announce a launch for the new ending DLC at PAX East. We promise."

I didn't hear that at all.

[CL4PTP]

Yeah, this doesn't sound like the answer any of us wanted to hear.

While providing some clarity to an ending that had none would be nice, what we really need are the REAL endings that the series deserved, and I don't get anything from this message that implies we will be getting that.

[Zulmoka531]

For what it's worth, keep up the discussion. Don't just calm down with the promise of a revision. They ARE listening, and despite what's said, for a big wig to come out (with all due respect to him of course) is a very huge deal, means it's not just the complaining that they are listening to.

Word of mouth has spread, folks aren't buying the game en mass as they hoped. People aren't enjoying the game as much as they would have hoped. With constructive criticism from us and proper moves on their end, all that can be changed.

Hold the line.