Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...
http://www.nydailyne...ksEnabled=false
Building on their research, Exec Producer
Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content
initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity
for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on
this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between
the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan
feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to
continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest
assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will,
continue.
Denethar wrote...
New Generation wrote...
blacqout wrote...
As someone that was able to appreciate the ending of Mass Effect 3, it gladdens my heart to hear that he wishes to keep the game's artistic integrity in tact. It is important to not dumb yourself down for the masses.
He is wrong about ME3 being the company's best work though - that honour befalls Dragon Age II.
Bwahahahahahah ROFL LLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLO. You serious:blink:????????
I'm all for people being allowed their own opinion, but I honestly hope you're joking.
That would be a goddamn rainbow in my books.beccathelion wrote...
1490 wrote...
iamthedave3 wrote...
beccathelion wrote...
Wait. I am very confused: www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/mass-effect-3-ending-changed-video-gamer-backlash-bioware-announces-article-1.1048196
Pretty sure they're misreading what he said.
Probably, though I think that misinterpreation may even be a benefit to the Retake movement, as other news agencies will pick up on that and follow it. Not following through with it would risk the next headline: "Bioware goes back on promise to change game."
God, wouldn't that be a silver lining shooting across the RBG sky?
Kilshrek wrote...
I don't know.
I would really love to agree with Dr Muzyka here, but at the same time, I'm bitterly dissatisfied by what appears to be the conclusion to my 5 year journey.
Dear Dr Muzyka, you may or may not ever read this, but I will put this opinion of mine on these forums in the hope that someone on the team may see it, and if they see fit, to forward it to you, it is as much a reply to your reply, as it is to the team themselves.
I'll list the very basic points that have so disappointed me, and hopefully someone will see some sense in this :
Introducing a new character at the death. I don't know if there's a trope for this, but Harbinger was touted for the whole of ME 2 to be the main antagonist. In ME 3 there never was one, merely the Reapers, and to a degree, Cerberus. Switching antagonists at the end, from TIM, to the sudden appearance of God Child, who gives Shepard 3 choices they can't refuse, where is the choice? What does this do to reflect all that I've done, all that I've sacrificed? To have all my efforts ignored, such as performing all the C-Sec tasks, only to find out that the Citadel gets captured by the Reapers anyway, to listening stupidly to a damn AI proselytise about concepts which I had not 10 hours ago disproved in a big way, well tell me that isn't a slap in the face from the story. It's telling me, no, player, you're stupid, listen to me, I know what's what. My choices are, self sacrifice to control the Reapers, who were meant to be more like Geth, individual, with no leader; merge everything into organic-synthetic hybrids; or genocide of the Geth, whom I had just given a new lease on life.
If that's how the story ends then it reflected none of my choices, it took into account nothing I had done before, and most importantly, it railroads me into 3 choices I equally abhor. It is unacceptable, please, Dr Muzyka, realise this.
Even disregarding all the dev promises that were made along the way, it is not possible to not realise that Mass Effect was always about choice. What choices you made always came back to haunt or help you, and I believe the finest example of this was with Conrad Verner and Jenna on the Citadel. If you helped these two individuals, who had nothing to do with each other in ME 1, they would return to help you in ME 3, in a single event. That was a very nice nod to what we'd done before. Sadly, the final minutes of the game simply do not live up to this at all, to have everything stripped away, and then have three choices that have nothing to do with the game prior to this, I find it mind boggling that they should have ever made it into the final game.
Moving on to the art argument, I fully respect that games are art, but they are also art made on the feedback from the customer, us, and to say that the artist has full control over their art is a nice sentiment, but one I disagree with. We have worked with Bioware over the last 5 years to create the fine story that Mass Effect has now, we too have a small stake in the story, and should we not have a small say in how it ends? It is the most disappointing end to a game I have ever experienced, simply because I have never played a game over 5 years. 5 years Dr Muzyka, and hundreds of hours poured into the game that Bioware started, but we the players helped to create. The team may have their vision, but I respectfully say that vision was too narrow. It simply focused too closely on what Mr Hudson declares as "bittersweet", but if I were asked to provide examples of bittersweet endings, I would never consider ME 3's ending to be among such things. I would point to a famous literary example for a bittersweet ending, The Lord Of The Rings :
In the books, after Sauron is vanquished and Middle Earth is rescued from the threat of darkness, the land lay in ruin, worthy souls and loved ones were lost, but we knew that there was victory. Much that was destroyed could be rebuilt, lives that were lost could be celebrated. The four hobbits return to the Shire, where they find that Saruman had enslaved their people and destroyed their homes with industry, but the four friends had learned much on their travels, and defeated Saruman. The Shire was nearly destroyed however, but Samwise had gifts from Galadriel that could heal those wounds. Frodo's wound would never heal however, and he finally departed to the West with Gandalf and Bilbo. Thus the Fellowship was truly broken, but not before their purpose was done. And note that none of the main characters, beyond Boromir, really died.
The movies were not too different in the bittersweet ending, except that scenes were cut and straight lines were made between two points which may have taken longer to get to, Frodo still leaves with Gandalf and Bilbo, and the parting does well to capture the bittersweet moment. Dear friends must be forever parted, because some wounds will never truly heal.
I only felt absolute despair as Shepard was forced to make 3 choices that made no sense to the character, and despair as it felt that all my work was undone at the whim of a child like entity. To add to the insult was the scene with the Normandy escaping the explosion of the Catalyst, to what purpose? Why did the people I bring down to Earth abandon me in my time of need? Would my squad really abandon me in the final push to the beam? I cannot understand why they were not with me at the end. It makes no sense Dr Muzyka, and I wish you could see it from my perspective. If someone on the team would care to answer that question, and provide me with an answer as to why this was the case I could do my best to see it the way they see it.
I have said as much as I can without addressing the pre-release promises, which should be another issue altogether.
Regards,
Kilshrek
A very disappointed Mass Effect fan
Fulgrim88 wrote...
That would be a goddamn rainbow in my books.beccathelion wrote...
1490 wrote...
iamthedave3 wrote...
beccathelion wrote...
Wait. I am very confused: www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/mass-effect-3-ending-changed-video-gamer-backlash-bioware-announces-article-1.1048196
Pretty sure they're misreading what he said.
Probably, though I think that misinterpreation may even be a benefit to the Retake movement, as other news agencies will pick up on that and follow it. Not following through with it would risk the next headline: "Bioware goes back on promise to change game."
God, wouldn't that be a silver lining shooting across the RBG sky?
Here's hoping more will pick up on that
Guest_Dark DJ_*
Deltaboy37-1 wrote...
I will reply to an earlier challenge to my point of view.
For the record I totall disagree with your BSN's response to this. The childish entitled brat accusations appear to be right with every new thread that's created.
Again to me you all are entirely contradicting this whole "hold the line" movement. You held the line and your making progress. I'll put what you all look like in an example. Imagine we're in a war. We're holding the line... They take shot at us saying we're childish. We hold the line... They then open up some thread for us to give feedback and that's like them giving up some ground on the battlefield. We then say we're holding the line while also chanting "your not giving up ground, your trying to fool us!! Derp!!" then they respond via twitter, Facebook and so on...
Once again we claim they are trying to pull PR stunts while that battleground line is looking more and more in our favor... *sigh*
Then Ray gives this... And here we go... "it's bullsh**" "don't fall for it!!!, Holdz teh lyyyyneee!!!"
Ray just basically said that they are at the negotiation table to negotiate a truce with us, and the lot of you are far too blind to even see that.
I just dropped my "hold the line" flags, you guys are childish and entitled, I will not be associated with that.
Instead I appeal to the real fans of this game and franchise to hold out to April and like true soldiers wait to see if Bioware keeps their word and honor what they say. That's the adult thing to do. Sometimes I forget we share this space with babies too.
Modifié par Dark DJ, 21 mars 2012 - 06:53 .
Doesn't sound like much of a choice, to me.1490 wrote...
The other danger of this is that if this isn't what Bioware actually met, they only have two choices: change the ending of the game under pressure, or make another announcement saying "We didn't ACTUALLY mean to chang the ending..." which would anger fans further, hurt sales further, and put fuel in the fire of the Movement.
superwampa wrote...
Explain the ending vs change the ending? Such a play on words that shouldn't be overexplained or taken too seriously.
If the co-founder says he is gonna change the ending, literally, what will happen? Of course the fans are gonna rejoice, but then the detractors are gonna portray Bioware as criminals who are finally admitting that they are wrong and are now rectifying their transgression. So from a PR standpoint, of course you can't write that you are "changing" the ending to satisfy the crowd. Also, Bioware would be accused of pandering to the fans of course. Now don't get me wrong, I don't like the endings either.
Fulgrim88 wrote...
Doesn't sound like much of a choice, to me.1490 wrote...
The other danger of this is that if this isn't what Bioware actually met, they only have two choices: change the ending of the game under pressure, or make another announcement saying "We didn't ACTUALLY mean to chang the ending..." which would anger fans further, hurt sales further, and put fuel in the fire of the Movement.
And the only reasonable outcome would be one that both satisfies the consumers and puts an end to the pummeling that Bioware is receiving right now.
If they adress the endings in a way that shows they genuinely tried to adress our feedback (It doesn't have to be perfect just show that they listened), I'd be more than happy to remove my bad Amazon review and replace it with the solid 5/5 this game would have deserved.
Bioware is not our enemy. I blame capitalism and a certain publisher that it had to come to this in the first place.
1490 wrote...
Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...
http://www.nydailyne...ksEnabled=false
This was at the very top of google for a while when you typed in "Mass Effect 3." Even if Dr. Muzyka didn't mean to say they'd "change the ending," other publishers will pick up on this headline and spread it around. I think the more news agencies spread the word that they are "changing the ending" (regardless if it is true or not), the more Bioware will be pressured to actually do it, under media scrutiny.
I fully agree. And hope they realise that1490 wrote...
Lots of people want lots of different things,but bottom line, pretty much EVERYONE who didn't like the ending wants: more closure, more choices, and more evidence that what you did in the 3 games mattered. If they were really smart, they would give the fans what they want. They could turn a PR nightmare into a PR dream. It has gotten so much attention now, pretty much everyone is going to want to buy the DLC just to see what all the fuss is about. They earn a ton of money, fans are really happy and spread Bioware's good name. Win/win.
Kilshrek wrote...
I don't know.
I would really love to agree with Dr Muzyka here, but at the same time, I'm bitterly dissatisfied by what appears to be the conclusion to my 5 year journey.
Dear Dr Muzyka, you may or may not ever read this, but I will put this opinion of mine on these forums in the hope that someone on the team may see it, and if they see fit, to forward it to you, it is as much a reply to your reply, as it is to the team themselves.
I'll list the very basic points that have so disappointed me, and hopefully someone will see some sense in this :
Introducing a new character at the death. I don't know if there's a trope for this, but Harbinger was touted for the whole of ME 2 to be the main antagonist. In ME 3 there never was one, merely the Reapers, and to a degree, Cerberus. Switching antagonists at the end, from TIM, to the sudden appearance of God Child, who gives Shepard 3 choices they can't refuse, where is the choice? What does this do to reflect all that I've done, all that I've sacrificed? To have all my efforts ignored, such as performing all the C-Sec tasks, only to find out that the Citadel gets captured by the Reapers anyway, to listening stupidly to a damn AI proselytise about concepts which I had not 10 hours ago disproved in a big way, well tell me that isn't a slap in the face from the story. It's telling me, no, player, you're stupid, listen to me, I know what's what. My choices are, self sacrifice to control the Reapers, who were meant to be more like Geth, individual, with no leader; merge everything into organic-synthetic hybrids; or genocide of the Geth, whom I had just given a new lease on life.
If that's how the story ends then it reflected none of my choices, it took into account nothing I had done before, and most importantly, it railroads me into 3 choices I equally abhor. It is unacceptable, please, Dr Muzyka, realise this.
Even disregarding all the dev promises that were made along the way, it is not possible to not realise that Mass Effect was always about choice. What choices you made always came back to haunt or help you, and I believe the finest example of this was with Conrad Verner and Jenna on the Citadel. If you helped these two individuals, who had nothing to do with each other in ME 1, they would return to help you in ME 3, in a single event. That was a very nice nod to what we'd done before. Sadly, the final minutes of the game simply do not live up to this at all, to have everything stripped away, and then have three choices that have nothing to do with the game prior to this, I find it mind boggling that they should have ever made it into the final game.
Moving on to the art argument, I fully respect that games are art, but they are also art made on the feedback from the customer, us, and to say that the artist has full control over their art is a nice sentiment, but one I disagree with. We have worked with Bioware over the last 5 years to create the fine story that Mass Effect has now, we too have a small stake in the story, and should we not have a small say in how it ends? It is the most disappointing end to a game I have ever experienced, simply because I have never played a game over 5 years. 5 years Dr Muzyka, and hundreds of hours poured into the game that Bioware started, but we the players helped to create. The team may have their vision, but I respectfully say that vision was too narrow. It simply focused too closely on what Mr Hudson declares as "bittersweet", but if I were asked to provide examples of bittersweet endings, I would never consider ME 3's ending to be among such things. I would point to a famous literary example for a bittersweet ending, The Lord Of The Rings :
In the books, after Sauron is vanquished and Middle Earth is rescued from the threat of darkness, the land lay in ruin, worthy souls and loved ones were lost, but we knew that there was victory. Much that was destroyed could be rebuilt, lives that were lost could be celebrated. The four hobbits return to the Shire, where they find that Saruman had enslaved their people and destroyed their homes with industry, but the four friends had learned much on their travels, and defeated Saruman. The Shire was nearly destroyed however, but Samwise had gifts from Galadriel that could heal those wounds. Frodo's wound would never heal however, and he finally departed to the West with Gandalf and Bilbo. Thus the Fellowship was truly broken, but not before their purpose was done. And note that none of the main characters, beyond Boromir, really died.
The movies were not too different in the bittersweet ending, except that scenes were cut and straight lines were made between two points which may have taken longer to get to, Frodo still leaves with Gandalf and Bilbo, and the parting does well to capture the bittersweet moment. Dear friends must be forever parted, because some wounds will never truly heal.
I only felt absolute despair as Shepard was forced to make 3 choices that made no sense to the character, and despair as it felt that all my work was undone at the whim of a child like entity. To add to the insult was the scene with the Normandy escaping the explosion of the Catalyst, to what purpose? Why did the people I bring down to Earth abandon me in my time of need? Would my squad really abandon me in the final push to the beam? I cannot understand why they were not with me at the end. It makes no sense Dr Muzyka, and I wish you could see it from my perspective. If someone on the team would care to answer that question, and provide me with an answer as to why this was the case I could do my best to see it the way they see it.
I have said as much as I can without addressing the pre-release promises, which should be another issue altogether.
Regards,
Kilshrek
A very disappointed Mass Effect fan
A cynical view that ignores a lot of the definitive statements in the response.Chumasaurus wrote...
I'm seriously feeling like there is mass confusion over what Ray's blog post actually means. And here's what it really means: Nothing. He did not really confirm or deny anything, it's just more dismissive public relations nonsense meaning little in the way of us moving forward. In all honesty I don't think we will know for certain what's going to happen until PAX because Bioware/EA doesn't seem to actually want to talk to us like humans, they'd rather just hide behind the wall that is corporation and consumer roles.
:bandit:
It ain't over until the fat Garrus sings, and he hasnt sung yet.wesr wrote...
I didn't see anything about the ending changing just they're working on something. It's the same PR spin that they've been giving us. I love that he'd rather listen to all the paid yes men critics than us but i guess he saw the bottom line dropping and had no choice.
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