883 réponses à ce sujet

[Amagoi]

snajones wrote...

That "apology" was almost as big of a slap in the face as the ending was.

BioWare will only listen to "nice" feedback? They are "artists"? Gaming magazine reviews are awesome, so the fans are obviously delusional?

Do they understand the concept of Capitalism? They are really working hard to alienate me as a fan.

They seem to get mixed up the fact that customers pay THEM for the game, while reviewers don't give them a cent, and this whole debacle is really making a large portion of game reviewers lose credibility.

This whole article seems to be mostly just more PR nothing-speak. The fact one of the bigwigs issued a statement is nice for us, but I'm worried about this content he mentioned. Maybe it's just me, but it sounds more like "We're not changing the ending, but have some dlc that explains why it's TOTALLY COOL!"

No, it's not. We hate it. We don't want more context for it, we want to completely bypass it, we don't want it AT ALL. If you can't figure that out, then prepare for April to be the start of a very bad trend in profits for Bioware as your fans walk out.

[KotorEffect3]

VettoRyouzou wrote...

I kinda stopped caring when he said "Critics have given us a good review!"

Critics =/= Fans.

Way to pick out one little line and put it complete out of context.  Why does that seem a common occurence on the bsn?

[Apollo-XL5]

Thanks, now let's have Shepard beat indoctrination, kick harbinger's ass and blow the reapers to kingdom come.

[Fulgrim88]

geckosentme wrote...

Point taken.  Like I said, I'm no longer holding the line as it were...just resolved to play the game up to the point I believe is the natural ending (Shepard & Anderson's convo) and then call it a Reaper victory and move on.  Same thing with anything you don't like in ME -- don't like how every conversation with Jacob turns flirty for femshep?  Don't talk with the guy.  End of story.

Obviously, any ending is going to leave some unsatisfied and there were so many great moments throughout this last game and the whole series that I don't think the ending can ruin it.

In the words of Jacob Taylor:

"It's all Bull****, Shepard but I guess Bioware did a good enough job, not even they could screw up what they created."

Fair enough. You should still send them that letter though.

[KotorEffect3]

snajones wrote...

That "apology" was almost as big of a slap in the face as the ending was.

BioWare will only listen to "nice" feedback? They are "artists"? Gaming magazine reviews are awesome, so the fans are obviously delusional?

Do they understand the concept of Capitalism? They are really working hard to alienate me as a fan.

Apparently you didn't read the whole thing or just decided to misinterpret and take what he said and put out of context.

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 21 mars 2012 - 08:31 .

[BalooTheBear]

I think the only thing I'm worried about (or the main thing anyway) is that what he is hinting to in April with be things like the Omega DLC which we will be able to play.... and get back to the ending.

But I am more hopeful today then I was yesterday and I am glad that a statement has come out. (I think it was always going to come off pretty PR-esque).

[ApplesauceBandit]

Are you serious!? they actually defended that dog crap pile of an ending.. They must have been seriously stoned.

"Duddddddeeeee, we should like totally have like rainbow explosions...that would be soooo rad." *giggle*

[Porfirmir]

RukiaKuchki wrote...
That deserves a lot of respect because there are people at Bioware whose (artistic) pride has been seriously hurt, and the first reaction by a lot of artists to this type of criticism is to ignore it.

I'm no professional artist, but I have dabbled in graphic arts and consider myself an artist after a fashion.  To create art is to invite critique; simply listening to "constructive criticism" and ignoring everything else will not help you improve as an artist.

The most recent Forbes article in response to Dr. Muzyka's statement makes an eloquent argument against the "this is art" defense.  Just because it is art doesn't mean its merits are unassailable. 

[Almostfaceman]

I personally think this is a huge step forward for the Retake position and we should all continue to provide them our feedback and decry the trolls. That's pretty much it, they're listening and they're going to address the issue.

[geckosentme]

Fulgrim88 wrote...

geckosentme wrote...

Point taken.  Like I said, I'm no longer holding the line as it were...just resolved to play the game up to the point I believe is the natural ending (Shepard & Anderson's convo) and then call it a Reaper victory and move on.  Same thing with anything you don't like in ME -- don't like how every conversation with Jacob turns flirty for femshep?  Don't talk with the guy.  End of story.

Obviously, any ending is going to leave some unsatisfied and there were so many great moments throughout this last game and the whole series that I don't think the ending can ruin it.

In the words of Jacob Taylor:

"It's all Bull****, Shepard but I guess Bioware did a good enough job, not even they could screw up what they created."

Fair enough. You should still send them that letter though.

Will do.

[MartinPenwald]

Come on, Bioware, this isn't that hard, is it? We didn't get the very different endings we were promised, and what we got is, quite frankly, very lacking.

Just release some additional endings (note the word "additional") and you'll make a lot of people very happy (and willing to pay for future ME content).

[KotorEffect3]

ApplesauceBandit wrote...

Are you serious!? they actually defended that dog crap pile of an ending.. They must have been seriously stoned.

"Duddddddeeeee, we should like totally have like rainbow explosions...that would be soooo rad." *giggle*

*facepalm*  he didn't defend it anywhere just because he has his employees backs (thus making him a good employer) doesn't mean he said "the ending was great"

[Almostfaceman]

ApplesauceBandit wrote...

Are you serious!? they actually defended that dog crap pile of an ending.. They must have been seriously stoned.

"Duddddddeeeee, we should like totally have like rainbow explosions...that would be soooo rad." *giggle*

Have you ever heard of "saving face"? This is exactly what he's doing while at the same time, he's doing what we're asking him to do. He has to give some props to his team and at the same time he's giving props to his customers. At the heart of the situation, he's saying they're going to do something about that ending, and that's what we've been asking for this whole time. So, let's give them ideas instead of lambasting them and see what they do with them.

[Claym0re]

KotorEffect3 wrote...
*facepalm*  he didn't defend it anywhere just because he has his employees backs (thus making him a good employer) doesn't mean he said "the ending was great"

Sorry but he just did all the BS usually politicians do. Talking about nothing.

Since I can see how these things turn ut in politics, now i have my guess how this whole thing will turn out in the end.

[Stalker]

What' the fuss about? Hasn't he confirmed with this that an ending-change is in progress? It's very vague...

[KotorEffect3]

Claym0re wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
*facepalm*  he didn't defend it anywhere just because he has his employees backs (thus making him a good employer) doesn't mean he said "the ending was great"

Sorry but he just did all the BS usually politicians do. Talking about nothing.

Since I can see how these things turn ut in politics, now i have my guess how this whole thing will turn out in the end.

So you think he should just publicly trash his own employees? 

[sevtron]

I personally have no problems consider Mass Effect, and in broader terms, video games in general, to be art. There are breath-taking examples of artistic video games that have come before, and will come again. But what is being dismissed, I feel, is the fact that this is commercial art. This is not art for the sake of art, this is not for the sake of the storytelling entirely. (And certainly, this concept of ME3 as their vision alone is contrary, in my opinion, to the create-your-own-story throwback style space opera, that is ME as a whole... It is a series about individual player choice, more than it is about us being presented a linear narrative.)

This is about a financial arrangement between Bioware, and their fanbase (the consumers, us). We were promised a product with certain specifications (read: All of the statements pertaining to the ending, and choice, by the ME3 team members). They failed to meet these specifications, and in fact, created the very specific opposites of what we were informed of, for the ending. They told us that we would not receive (A), but that the product would be (, but then gave us (A) despite it. 

That is just one small portion of why many people are upset. I find the most vocally pro-Bioware (which has become synonumous with anti-Retake Mass Effect, for some reason) to be disingenuous with their opinions, at best. And outright deceptive/liars at worst. Their complaints about RME shift as fast as they can be refuted. Let us just all be honest with ourselves for a second, can we? Why are people so venomously anti-RME? Why are people finding it necessary to defend the game by trying to impose opinion-dominance here?

[Claym0re]

KotorEffect3 wrote...
So you think he should just publicly trash his own employees? 

First: Admitting a mistake is not trashing the employees. They made a wonderful job, except for one thing. People do mistakes happens. Personally i admire admitting a mistake.

Second: They should have made their intentions clear. They do the opposite.

[Almostfaceman]

Mr Massakka wrote...

What' the fuss about? Hasn't he confirmed with this that an ending-change is in progress? It's very vague...

It's not vague, they're directly addressing the ending. He says "Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received."

Folks - WE are their research, let's give them plenty to look at so our feedback matters. Insults and derision are maybe cathartic emotionally to some of you, but in the end it's not something that Bioware can do something about. What they CAN do something about are specific things that you ask for. So ASK. GIVE THEM IDEAS. There's, like, three threads at the top of this forum to do so, I suggest we use them.

[EvilChani]

MartinPenwald wrote...

Come on, Bioware, this isn't that hard, is it? We didn't get the very different endings we were promised, and what we got is, quite frankly, very lacking.

Just release some additional endings (note the word "additional") and you'll make a lot of people very happy (and willing to pay for future ME content).

Where did you get, out of what he said, that there will be different endings? He flat out said that he didn't want to change the "vision" the "artists" had and understands that they must "clarifly" so anyone who didn't find it to be brilliant will "understand", which means we're stuck with the steaming pile of **** we have now. They'll probably release some ****ty slide show explaining their brilliance to us, as though we are mentally deficient six-year olds. Hooray....

[Stalker]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

What' the fuss about? Hasn't he confirmed with this that an ending-change is in progress? It's very vague...

It's not vague, they're directly addressing the ending. He says "Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received."

Folks - WE are their research, let's give them plenty to look at so our feedback matters. Insults and derision are maybe cathartic emotionally to some of you, but in the end it's not something that Bioware can do something about. What they CAN do something about are specific things that you ask for. So ASK. GIVE THEM IDEAS. There's, like, three threads at the top of this forum to do so, I suggest we use them.

That's exactly what I was reading out of it, too.
I'm just very surprised that there is such a huge discussion going on in this thread... I mean, we finally get the ending-change we all wanted, what's the problem here?

[JaylaClark]

@Almostfaceman and @Mr MAssakka Clarity is one of my three c's. Closure and Catharsis... well Clarity can lead to Closure.

I guess it's a start.

[Foolsfolly]

geckosentme wrote...

Hi Dr. Muzyka,

First,
you are absolutely right. Mass Effect 3, and the series as a whole, is
a triumph. The accolades from reviewers and critics are well-deserved
laurels for this series and team.

That said, the fundamental
problem with the current ending as I see it, is not a lack of choice, or
that "player choice" didn't figure more prominently into the end...I
see all of ME3 as "the end" and my previous choices over ME1 & 2 did
figure prominently in the events of the "ending"...

..the
problem is that through out the ME series, renegade or paragon, Shepard
has always fought for certain principles: significantly the value of
diversity & the right of self-determination, and against strict
utilitarianism.

This stands in stark contrast to the arguments of
the Reapers who value "order" and see the diversity and right of
self-determination that organics value as "chaos" that must be brought
to "order" through extermination and "ascension" to some type of
corporate "group entity."

Throughout the course of the 3 games,
Shepard and her/his companions have repudiated these Reaper arguments
both morally & by force of arms.

In the final sequence with
the current ending the Star Child forces upon the player three decision,
all of which violate one or more of the basic principles which have
come to represent the subtext of the game. Choose "control" and Shepard
concedes to the utilitarian arguments of the Illusive Man, choose
"synthesis" and Shepard betrays her/his commitment to
self-determination--as Shepard becomes the decider that all other
species will be merged with synthetics her/his self and obliviates some
level of diversity in the process as well. Choose "destroy" and Shepard
again is forced to reject the value of diversity, wiping out both good
and bad synthetics.

These are false choices and feel completely
contrived. The reapers are malevolent and evil entities; no compromise
with their values can be brooked. It matters less to me whether Shepard
lives or dies, succeeds or fails in stopping the Reapers, but I do
think that it's important that the character not be reduced to such an
artificial choice that repudiates everything the character has
previously stood and fought for for over 90+ hours of game play.

One
ending is fine--Shepard dies next to Anderson, the Reapers win. It was
an impossible fight, but lost with honor. As it stands now Shepard
neither wins nor maintains his or her honor or convictions--and that
feels very hollow and artificial.

I apologize for the lack of brevity but hope you made it to the end.

tldr;
the current StarChild ending and the artificial & contrived
choices (and even more contrived consequences) offered violate the basic
message of the ME series and the character of Shepard her/himself.

That
said, I loved the ME series and this final game. It is truly a wonder.
I have merely chosen for future playthrus to turn of my console after
the final touching scene between Shepard and Anderson that validates the
characters and the message of the game rather than precede onward to
the Star Child sequence.

I just wish I didn't have to do that.

Warmest Regards & Thanks for many hours of wonderful game play,

Steve T.

Great job, man. Great job.

[CasbynessPC]

It didn't really say much. Pretty standard fare. I think someone should send him the Youtube link to that Starchild music video and see if he still thinks the ending has artistic integrity.

I just don't understand. Why force the technological dark age on the ME universe when you could make so much more money out of it with spin offs...

I guess it's wait for April time. Most likely 6th April at PAX, if Bioware don't want to be pelted with tomatoes...

Modifié par CasbynessPC, 21 mars 2012 - 08:49 .

[Almostfaceman]

JaylaClark wrote...

@Almostfaceman and @Mr MAssakka Clarity is one of my three c's. Closure and Catharsis... well Clarity can lead to Closure.

I guess it's a start.

I agree it's a start, and that's movement in OUR direction instead of the opposite. He could have very easily said "We're not changing the endings." That has not happened.

"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received."

I've underlined the key phrases in what he's said. We are not being ignored. I'll repeat, WE are their research folks. Let's keep the ball moving in our direction by giving them our honest feedback about what kind of changes we want.