883 réponses à ce sujet

[Neizd]

Well...a lot of text that says nothing. We will see in april what they actually DO rather what they would SAY.

[Fulgrim88]

blah64 wrote...

count_4 wrote...

So we're pretty much f*cked. As is the indoc theory. Great.

The amount of hope bleeding out of me after I read this PR garbage could drown a small litter of kittens right about now.

Don't wanna sound like a smartass, but if you really got your hopes up for the indoc theory, you were in for some disappointment right from the start.

To deliberately troll us with something like that would have been...unwise. And therefore highly unlikely.

Anyway, don't loose hope. We've been acknowledged by the highest places possible (the only higher place would be the CEO of EA but we all know he's far too busy killing kittens and eating babies), so now that we've got their attention, we must show them what's wrong. Point them in the right direction.

Now it's true that Ray makes it seem like they've overlooked much of our points and reduced it all to "they want the current ending + more explanation", but I think we should keep in mind that he isn't actually involved in the development of ME3. Might be just an oversight.
The important point is that he posted at all. That's basically acknowledging that it's a huge problem, and they can't / don't want to risk dropping the ball a second time.

So let's keep your voices heard, point out the various flaws - and make it happen

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 21 mars 2012 - 09:49 .

[Super_Angurius]

I used to tell my friends every so often "You get a computer that can handle it, or an XBox 360, get the Mass Effect games. Their great, you can play the charecter in varity of ways, deep universe, it's great. You won't regret it." Now I have to add in "But when Martin Sheens charecter is done with, just turn off the game and imagine whatever you want. It'll be better than the ending."

The ending counts. If something has a bad ending it will affect how the rest is remembered. A man might be a saint every other day of his life, but he goes on an ax murder spree, all anyones ever going to be able to remember him for is the ax murders. It's all "We all thought he was such a nice man. Then killed all those poor people."

A good ending leaves people talking in a good way. Star Wars left everyone saying "Man that movie was great! It was so awesome when Han came back and they blew up the Death Star."
Empire left them saying "Holy $#%# Vader is Luke's father? Is Han Dead? When are they making the third one?" Jedi left us saying "Wow Vader saved his son, everythings great. Blew up the death star again. Coulda stood less Ewoks, but otherwise good." Sadly ME3's ending gives me the Phantom Menace reaction. "God Jar Jar sucked. He sucked so very much. Rest was okay, but man, no Jar Jar, it'd 6000 times better."

Yep Starchild is the Jar Jar of Mass Effect

[LuckyMan-]

I'm carefully optimistic about this. I'd like new ending options, but to me this sounds like we'll get some plotholes explained and text cards at the end to summarize what happened to our squadmates etc.
Funny thing is... I would have been okay with this if it had been like that from the start. It would have been sad, but at least it would have made sense and I would've known what happened to my friends. As it stands now, thinking about the fate of my Shepard (and the rest of the galaxy), mixed with the fact there's no way to change it, just make me feel sad. Not really the feeling I'm going for when playing games, unless they even it out with some sense of victory, achievement or closure.

I kind of hate to say this, but I truly hope they'll charge money for that DLC. At least that way they could put more resources into making it, which might include new endings and such. If they release it for free I'm guessing it would be just those text cards and explanations. At this point, I'd just want my generic happy ending option.

[Neophoenix 78]

Seems like The Creators were unaware that after this many years the emotions spent on the creation would cause the creation to undertake a life of its own and rebel against what The Creators decreed.

How did that end up in my game? Rocky at first then an alliance where both parties saw each others as allies. The created giving supplies to The Creators to continue to rebuild their work. What happened after the big battle?

I HAVE NO FREAKING CLUE BECAUSE COME CREATOR FELL ASLEEP AT HIS JOB WHILE THIS CREATION WAS GIVING THAT GROUP 60 CREDITS MINIMUM EVERY 2 YEARS.

Modifié par Neophoenix 78, 21 mars 2012 - 10:36 .

[Arokel]

The problem with this post by Dr. Ray is that there is a massive freaking BUT at the end.

[GOODKyle]

Never before as a fan of a series have I been slapped this hard. (I'm sure some know that I support the indoc theory but this has nothing to do with this thread. Plus, it just seems like he side stepped that issue anyway like so many others.) The first thing he basically says is that ME3 is the best work Bioware created. I'd agree but the ending has so many plot holes and inconsitencies that I honestly have to say it may not be the best. I'm still shocked Bioware hasn't addressed or can't see these mistakes for themselves.

Next he says he won't use critics' review scores to defend Bioware and than he blatently does a couple paragraphs later. Yea, good job keeping your word. Just letting you know, "most folks" doesn't equal the gaming websites. "Most folks" should address the 75,000+ people who factually found faults with the ending. Not only does this scream that publicity is more important than the THOSANDS of loyal fans who ACTUALLY found dozens of plotholes in the endings, but I know a few things about being an "official" reviewer.

Alright, Bioware this may be a bit long. I've worked for two different gaming websites (one was "popular") full time and I know all about the reviewing process. I know there are good, honest sites that maintain integrity in their work. However, even the most trusthworthy of sites feel the pressure in one of three ways. Writers see that a game is getting glowing reviews across the board and that greatly influences the way the review score initially comes out. The writer doesn't want to feel like he is doing a bad job or have people critizing him for not being a good contributing game journalist. The second (and I hope this isn't true) but publishers give certain sites their games early but at a price. This site has to give the game a certain score or higher which is usually a 9. Finally, the third is simply being called out on just one "bad" part on a review for such a high-profile game.

Besides those faults, it does genuinely feel like Bioware is trying to make things right. I only hope they realize all the mistakes the endings have (unless the indoc theory is true) because you need to fix the problem before you can move on.

[Super-Model]

http://www.nydailyne...ksEnabled=false

[Mighty_BOB_cnc]

Leem_0001 wrote...

I did start another thread about this but a moderator (quite rightly) asked us to use this thread to discuss the topic. I will respect that as lots of different threads can get out of hand and, if Bioware are listening, then it's easier if everything is in one place.

I want to draw attention to the very end of the statement:

'If you are a Mass Effect fan and have input for the team – we respect your opinion and want to hear it. We’re committed to address your constructive feedback as best we can. In return, I’d ask that you help us do that by supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted. I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole. Trust that we are doing our damndest, as always, to address your feedback. As artists, we care about our fans deeply and we appreciate your support.
Thank you for your feedback – we are listening.'


Specifically the bit about - 'In return, I’d ask that you help us do that by supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted. I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole.'

Would you tell your friends about it?

There's another thread called 'do you trust BioWare' and another titled 'Would you tell your friends to buy ME3' (I'm paraphrasing both titles) and the answer is no, and no I would tell them to avoid it at least until we definitively know what is going on with the whole ending 'fiasco' without any vaugeries or veiled statements.  The fact that they're going to address it somehow restores some of my trust, but I'll simply have to reserve judgement and see what happens.

[clumsyninja]

I might get my happy ending will lots of little blue babies afterall!

[razorblade456]

"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."

I might be reading too much into this, but this sounds a lot like ME3 didn't have a real ending because this isn't really the last ME game. It has Assassin Creed or Halo written all over it. Yeah, it's the last game with a number, but hey "Mass Effect: Revelations" will be the actual last game...then there is of course the spin off games where you play Joe/Jane Do-Good-er that is trying to save their planet while Commander Shepard saves the known universe. If not, there will be lots and lots of DLC as they continue to try to milk this franchise, which don't get me wrong, completely understand because it's amazing, but all good stories have an ending. Bioware use the video game media as no other game developer has, and as bittersweet as it is, ME needs to be put to bed so that they may write the new epic story that I'll be salivating all over.

[darthrevaninlight]

"Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story"
I disagree with this.
The ending, the conclusive, most telling part of a game, the goal that is supposed to give you incentive, something to look forward to, completely eradicated the concept of choice in Mass Effect.

[Lozark]

For the first time my question is not "Are they listening?" but "Are they understanding?"

[DerpMcDerp]

Why would I suggest my friends buy ME3? They are better off ending their mass effect experiences with ME2, I wish I had. No - I tell my friends not to buy it, and those that already have to stop at Marauder Shields. Most have actually listened, because - you know - they trus me, more so than they do BW at this point.

[Edrick1976]

Quietness wrote...

"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."

is the really important paragraph.

Kinda hard for me not to take this as," where not changing the ending, we might try and explane things differently, we will do what ever the hell we want, we will only look at things that we agree with aka opinions we like, AND we will charge you for it"

[Edrick1976]

Lozark wrote...

For the first time my question is not "Are they listening?" but "Are they understanding?"

I believe they do understand however they just dont..... you know I should proably keep my opinions to my self till PAX in a few weeks and see what they have to say.

[bahamutomega]

two words to describe BioWare: scared spitless

we've gone from the executive producer of the game to one of the founders of BioWare. his response was one of the worst PR statements i've ever read. not only does he accuse his most loyal players of not understanding the "artistic integrity" of the ending, effectively insulting our intelligence, he has admitted that this problem is much larger than they expected.

don't admit we're right and then insult our intelligence.

HOLD THE LINE

[Lukegardiner]

Thank you ray. 

Fingers crossed.

[Scoob]

We are not done here people. Bioware did not listen, they choose to ignore our perfectly logical arguments and brush it off as "deconstructive". They think all we want is closure and will NOT change the endings, which this movement IS about, all they will do is add to it. It is like putting a half rotten cherry on a piece of poo.

https://twitter.com/...517553602629633

Hold the damn line!

[Miekkas]

Bioware could easily fix the ending by cutting out the final scenes right after Anderson dies which is where all of the controversy starts, add a cut scene of the Crucible killing the Reapers, and doing a Dragon Ago Origins ending style slide show. Shepard has blue children with Liara or dies depending of War Assets, Garrus is Primarch, etc etc....And I am willing to bet that most people would gladly accept this quick fix as an alternative to the current ending, they are so desperate for an ending that is not this one....myself included admittedly.

[Beldamon]

I think the best thing we can take away from this at the moment is that we have the attention of the (near) the very top of the food chain.

I've seen people on facebook imploring that BioWare not waste this chance. I would second that motion.

But...I also think we should notice that *we* have an opportunity to really get our message across. If we cross that line from being 'firm' to being 'rude', we run as much a risk as BioWare does of screwing up big time.

I don't care for the implication that 'closure' and 'clarification' will be enough. I think if those things had been with the released version of the game, the backlash would have been reduced to the normal 'complaining' noise that is normal in forums.

However I think the situation has grown beyond the point that the original mistake can be so easily rectified.

With all due respect (and acknowledgement that BioWare has delivered us an excellent installment in the Mass Effect series other than the ending) I can't make myself settle for less than a full spectrum of outcome ranging from an unabashedly happy ending for Shepard (as much as can be in a Galactic civilization laid waste by Reapers), to the Reapers winning.

And everything in between. Which would include current endings, likely, as there are people satisfied with those.

But I know I don't take people seriously when they insist on being insulting, and I don't expect to be taken seriously if I'm that way either.

[nametry629]

clumsyninja wrote...

I might get my happy ending will lots of little blue babies afterall!

I wouldn't bet on it.

"team are hard at work on a number of game
content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more
clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey"

All they are going to do is clarify the ending for those of us too dumb to understand 'art'.

[Element Zero]

I like what I read. For anyone that has led a team of hardworking people, working side by side with those people for years, it's very tough to watch them receive harsh criticism, even if it's justified. Compound that 10 fold for Dr. Muzyka, who is the Co-Founder of the company.

I think he did a great job of standing by his people, and letting them know he appreciates and admires all of their hard work. I'd think less of him if he didn't do that. I'd do the same in his position.

At the same time, he acknowledged that resisting the urge to defend their work, and to embrace constructive feedback, was their responsibility as artists and creators. That's a humble acknowledgement in a tough situation. Hearing from the CEO and co-founder of Bioware that we've been heard, and that Casey and the team are now at work to clean up the loose ends in this game's ending, is a relief. I'm eager to see what we get.

No, the ending will never be quite what I'd hoped, but the worst parts were the plot holes and lack of closure. They can't be expected to ignore the ending as is, pretending it doesn't exist. They do want to make it better, though, and are working to do so. We can't realistically ask for more. For the first time, I'm optimistic that we'll get something, at some point, to smooth the rough edges on this otherwise great game.

Modifié par tallrickruush, 22 mars 2012 - 12:01 .

[Lozark]

Edington wrote...

Lozark wrote...

For the first time my question is not "Are they listening?" but "Are they understanding?"

I believe they do understand however they just dont..... you know I should proably keep my opinions to my self till PAX in a few weeks and see what they have to say.

Ooh, are you going to PAX?

[djspectre]

I'm sure my post here will be hidden in obscurity, drowned out by the 34 pages preceding it and the 34 pages after it, but here goes anyway.

The issue here is that the founder of a company has several goals to meet. EA's goals, shareholders expectations, profitability, breadth of audience, and to defend his employees as all good managers should.

The problem is that achieving all those things often puts you at odds with the fans on principal alone. His position is as politically driven as any other management position and managers often don't have the option of letting empathy or sympathy cloud what the people he reports to consider logical decisions.

While he states that criticism has become destructive, there are tidbits of useful stuff in there too. The problem is that the most vocal people are often also just firing from the hip, lashing out angrily and complaining....complaining without offering any insight as to a solution.

Yes, there have been so many people with good, solid, respectful and constructive ideas and suggestions, coupled with compliments of the other games and the content of this one on many levels. But they've been drowned out, hidden, mocked and lost in multiple 100+ post threads.

I've mentioned my issues with the game, in great and specific detail, and ideas to improve them, in many of my posts on various threads. They get pushed aside, ignored or missed entirely because of the volatility of the players and their near-spam-like responses on these forums to any of a hundred similarly themed threads.

I appreciate him speaking, but until April (which is what he stated) we aren't going to have any new information and most of the upper managements statements from Casey and higher, aren't going to satiate anyone because it comes off as smoke and mirrors and political maneuvering hidden admid what sounds like a cookie cutter statement.

I understand why he wrote what he did, but honestly, I'd like a breath of fresh air at some point, where someone from EA or Bioware steps out and just does a real-life Renegade interrupt, bucks the corporate trend and just admits that the game wasn't polished enough, admits what was left uncompleted, they deeply apologize and are working to fix it.