883 réponses à ce sujet

[clarkusdarkus]

Its such a sympathy cry for help, wait untill april basically means no more backlash please. how can critic reviews be taken serious when they have there own news reporters in the game? how was they gonna give you a bad score then? the game itself was flawed but because the ending was such a letdown thats overshadowed quite alot of what was wrong with the game in general. the mere fact i havent touched the game since the ending few days ago says it all as usually im straight away replaying the games......and i may be stubborn but i still cant get over the smack in the face that was purchase dlc at the end of the credits even tho it says we defeated the reapors.

[JulienJaden]

Mikeuicus wrote...

Saku39 wrote...

Quick question, Ray. Who was responsible for this fiasco, and when will they be fired? This abortion of an ending will cost you millions, and a brain dead chimp of a beta tester should have raised the exact concerns as your customers, back in January.

This is not excusable, it's total failure on the part of the developers. Someone needs to be fired, or they'll just do it again and ruin your next game too.

To people who think Ray was dismissing all fan feedback as "destructive", he wasn't. He was talking about posts like this, that can be summed up with "We hate the ending fix it NOW". This doesn't give them anything to work with, while constructive feedback like, "I didn't like X, because Y" gives them a place to start.

But again, most of our feedback is constructive. It is simply not true that we are being mostly destructive. If I am merely refering to the "bad ending that needs fixing" right here, then that's only because I've already posted extensive feedback in the appropriate thread and stated my opinion in several other threads.

That particular post wasn't very constructive, I agree, but I have to agree that, while I don't think anyone 'has to be fired' over this (it might happen, though), at least the beta testers or somebody in the team must have seen this coming and said: "Guys, this is the opposite of everything we said. It doesn't offer a tenth of the closure and satisfaction of Dragon Age's ending. We can't go with that."

What happened to all that?

[AnsinJung]

Silasqtx wrote...

"The passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. We’re already working hard to do that."

Indeed

We’re working hard to maintain
the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story
while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received.  This is in addition
to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and
new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect
universe can, and will, continue.

Italics mine.  The indoc theory isn't necessarily dead.  Furthermore, a founder may not be as privy to the story direction as someone closer to the game, like Casey Hudson.  Let's hope they intended to surprise us and just can't say anything about it now.

On the other hand, they really need to do more beta testing.  I don't know how much they tested the game beforehand, but it wasn't enough.  Need more outside feedback.  Take a page from Blizzard's book and test, test, test your games, then test them again.  Mass Effect is still a single player game, so if people are going to get spoiled, then so be it.

Maybe they'd have to rework their development process, so voice actors aren't kept on tight notice if they change the story due to negative testing feedback, but you could just have people play with subtitles and no voice.

[Xivai]

I like how he says pretty much nothing! We will hold the line until April. We the fanbase will judge if this "content" is really a proper ending or not. I'm displeased at you Bioware for being so adamantly stubborn on this. But... at least this is progress. You've said something.

[rizengrad]

I'll just repost my opinion over here:
This is actually good because now you've got the co-founder of Bioware on the move, which means that the situation has gotten bad enough to warrant a senior corporate exec's attention.

On the other hand, this is a bad post because he hasn't said anything new. Essentially, he just rephrased the past press releases. ('we're listening', 'but critics said', 'you're a vocal minority', 'this game is art' etc etc)

Modifié par rizengrad, 21 mars 2012 - 03:57 .

[Fingertrip]

PAX is in april.

Bioware is attending PAX.

Indoctrination Theory is right.

Umad?

[alberta]

bigbad1013 wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Saku39 wrote...

Quick question, Ray. Who was responsible for this fiasco, and when will they be fired? This abortion of an ending will cost you millions, and a brain dead chimp of a beta tester should have raised the exact concerns as your customers, back in January.

This is not excusable, it's total failure on the part of the developers. Someone needs to be fired, or they'll just do it again and ruin your next game too.

s*** like this needs to stop. We will not win anyone over screaming for people to be fired, and blatant insults.

My thoughts exactly. Same thing happened with Dragon Age 2 and honestly none of us have any right to call for anyone to be fired. That's a personal attack. That's destructive. This is the stuff Ray was talking about when he wrote about destructive critism.

I don't get it - why are you blaming this fan for expressing his/her opinion either way. This fan did NOT cause the ending problem - BW did. Now BW is again blaming ALL fans for not liking the ending. Otherwise why use the "artistic" shield? Or the Reviewers shield? Especially the reviewers shield we know for a FACT only one in 10 even finished the game.

[Whiskey Jay]

I am glad to hear they are addressintheg and will change the ending. He got a bit wordy for me personally but I am thankful he did not skirt the issue, gave us their target date, and seemed genuine. I am not going to lift my personal boycott on Bioware yet. I need to see something concrete first. This is one man's word. Sometimes that can be golden and other times not so much. As I alluded to earlier though, I feel that this response is the first positive step Bioware has taken to address the endings issue. I am happier for it. I don't want to see Bioware or Mass Effect fail. I just want it to receive an ending of the caliber it deserves. Thank you Bioware for heading in the right direction...and for listening to us.

[ppeters77]

I just love this PR-talk like: "Fans didn't get the ending they wanted" or "a small minority"

Also a nice one is this bit from Ray:
So, it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations.

No! The endings were not up to your own promises!

[AndroLeonidas]

They also can't base decisions on critics whose job it is to rate games but for the most part don't play the entire game. The fans are the true test and critic and I believe there quite a few more than he believes or mentions that think the ending is a betrayal to everything Mass Effect is.

This game was absolutely brillant!! Gripping! Edge of your seat! Right up until the last fifteen minutes. Then it failed miserably in my opinion. As so many others have said before... none of the decisions I made through the first two games and into the third mattered in the least at the end. There is a difference between bittersweet as Casey says and just plain bitter.

Some people enjoyed the heck out of it and more power to them... I just feel the vast majority of dire hard fans, even just fans, think the ending is very, very subpar.

I don't complain much... but after five years and as much time playing MY Shepard as I have dedicated to this game... a bittersweet ending to me is having to deal with all the loss of friends and family the war took, but being able to stand at the end with whoever your LI is, if you had one, take a deep breath in victory and then buckle down to begin to rebuild and remember.

That is the ending I expected from Bioware. Just my two cents. Thanks for addressing this Ray. I hope you guys are able to fix it soonest.

[Wikkr]

what i dont understand is how the writers produced 2 full games and 1 98% game of pure storytelling gold. only to ruin it in the last 10 minutes... How do the people who gave us these stories mess up so badly in the last 10 minutes?

if this was the real ending how did the writers who made this saga think this was the way to end it

[J1NG]

The statement is trying too hard to appease everyone.

Should play the game itself. Accordingly to which, it says "you can't" (apease everyone).

So either the players are wrong; Or the Dev's/Writer's are.

Which is it? I know what my answer is.

Modifié par J1NG, 21 mars 2012 - 03:58 .

[MaaZeus]

Veggiesofmanycolors wrote...

I think it took a lot of courage for Ray Muzyka to accept the criticism against the game's ending and I think we as fans need to realize that just because Bioware doesn't have something right at this moment to fix the ending doesn't mean it's not part of their agenda.

It is pretty clear that the ending was intentional and that Bioware realizes they've upset their fanbase with it. So what Dr. Muzyka seems to be implying is that Casey Hudson and his team are going back to the drawing boards and trying to figure out what to do now. We should be patient and give them the support and time needed to deliver a quality product.

Ray Muzkya is also right in saying that the rest of the game outside of the ending is fantastic and it is well deserving of praise. Such a quality product should not have it's legacy tarnished with such an unsatisfactory ending and I am pleased to know that Bioware is addressing this.

My thoughts pretty much.


Also about the pro critic reviews Muzyka mentions, some of them DO state that the ending is bad or atleast WTF worthy, but still give high score because frankly the game really is that good otherwise. I loved, and so do other fans, almost everything up until the ending part kicks in.


Also Mr. Muzyka, the difference between fans and critics is that critics look at the game objectively as a whole with goods and bads weighted, and if the goods outweight the bads then the final score tends to reflect it. But in case of fans with strong emotional investment this is not how it always works.


Looking forward to April. Until that day lets keep what concerns us, all vids and articles, about the ending up and visible so that they do not miss a single detail.

[Alamar2078]

I love the "artisitic integrity" thing -- not really.

[IMHO] A "corporation" has produced a "product" that did not live up to pre-launch advertising [in the view of many fans]. Until "living up to your word" is the number one priority and that has been assured should we even be mentioning side issues like artistic integrity.

Obviously YMMV

Modifié par Alamar2078, 21 mars 2012 - 03:59 .

[revo76]

if we wont get an ending, this means we have to boycott further DLCs. This is the only way to show we're not done yet.

The announcement is still piece of c**p and still no direct response about endings.

Face with the epic fail or protect your work and lose money, fans. But i dont want a neutral answer.

Modifié par revo76, 21 mars 2012 - 03:58 .

[Quietness]

JulienJaden wrote...

Mikeuicus wrote...

Saku39 wrote...

Quick question, Ray. Who was responsible for this fiasco, and when will they be fired? This abortion of an ending will cost you millions, and a brain dead chimp of a beta tester should have raised the exact concerns as your customers, back in January.

This is not excusable, it's total failure on the part of the developers. Someone needs to be fired, or they'll just do it again and ruin your next game too.

To people who think Ray was dismissing all fan feedback as "destructive", he wasn't. He was talking about posts like this, that can be summed up with "We hate the ending fix it NOW". This doesn't give them anything to work with, while constructive feedback like, "I didn't like X, because Y" gives them a place to start.

But again, most of our feedback is constructive. It is simply not true that we are being mostly destructive. If I am merely refering to the "bad ending that needs fixing" right here, then that's only because I've already posted extensive feedback in the appropriate thread and stated my opinion in several other threads.

That particular post wasn't very constructive, I agree, but I have to agree that, while I don't think anyone 'has to be fired' over this (it might happen, though), at least the beta testers or somebody in the team must have seen this coming and said: "Guys, this is the opposite of everything we said. It doesn't offer a tenth of the closure and satisfaction of Dragon Age's ending. We can't go with that."

What happened to all that?

Maybe the testers saw something else, or the ending seemed to be delayed up quite a bit which is what is destroying us. So they barely got any playtime if any at all.

The big important thing is the insults and the screaming for blood has to stop and now if people want to be taken seriously. 

[Asuukuru]

kleindropper wrote...

tariq071 wrote...

Coolfaec wrote...

Is it just me, or were our criticisms labled "Destructive?"

Well they are losing money from sales, EA share is not rising and they are starting to feel heat from press which is more and more sympathetic to Customer.

So , yeah for BW it is destructive right now.

I would classify returning or reselling games, spamming user reviews, and filing FTC complaints in the "destructive" category (not that I nec. disagree with some of these tactics)

Ill admit that spamming user reviews is somewhat desctructive. However, returning, reselling the game and filing an FTC complaint are not desctructive. Those are done because people believe the product they got was not what was promised.

[FaultenXIII]

Glad to see that they are acknowledging customer/fan complaints again. The promise of something coming in April is also a nice olive branch. The rest just sounds like a repetition of previous comments from them. Nothing bad mind you, just them reinforcing their position to us and themselves. I respect their decision to defend/support their choice of ending, though I did not care for it myself, but that's my own opinion.

I do agree though with Muzyka's comment about the fan response. Some of the fans responses have been genuine constructive feedback addressing the underlying issues of WHY they felt the endings were bad, not just saying that they were bad. On the other hand, some fans have been responding with more knee jerk responses that are more DEstructive instead of CONstructive, and I'll give this to Muzyka that he has a right to bring this up. In the past few months Bioware fans haven't really been showing our best side to them; that debacle with Jennifer Helper being case and point.

However at the end of the day actions speak louder than words. So I'm going to see what happens in April and beyond. If were lucky maybe they'll modify the ending in some way that majority of disgruntled fans will feel satiated in some way. If not, oh well, I still have other games I can play.

[billyzero]

It's good to get a response but I wish it was less cryptic. Why is the co-founder afraid to say something definitive?

[invulnerable23]

thebatmanreborn wrote...

Mass Effect 3 is art. It was made by a team of writers collaborating together, just like a television show is made. Graphic artists interpret their story visually, similar to a graphic novel. There are directors and producers, just like film. There is plenty of creative energy that goes into a game. These guys spent 7 years, thousands of hours, millions of dollars making the Mass Effect trilogy. It is a work of art and they are justified in standing by it.

...

Hurting Bioware's sales or forcing them to alter the ending completely does not mean you love the Mass Effect franchise. Both of these options can result in a complete cancelation of the Mass Effect franchise. If it doesn't make enough money to justify its production costs, then EA can void the entire franchise. If you force the writers to expend creativity on something they don't want to do (Sherlock Holmes...poor Doyle) they may end up despising the work and not wanting to have anything to do with it ever again.

I'm sorry, but really? You are likening Mass Effect 3 to the great stories of old simply because you enjoyed it? Yes, I love Mass Effect. I loved the entire series, but the last 5 minutes are a different animal than the rest of the series. I hate that they lost touch with the world I loved so much that they created such a poor excuse for an ending.

Let's examine your ideas. As a philosophy student, let's look at the idea of Mass Effect as art.

If it's any type of art, it's commissioned art. It's being paid for and made to make a profit. If you release a series of novels and write the conclusion to the story that is utter nonsense, your fanbase has every right to ask you to change it, to petition the change, to demand the change. You, as the author, don't need to listen. You made it for the publisher and for yourselves, not the fans.

BUT Mass Effect 3 was made for the fans. It was made for it's target audience. Hence why all the females wear tight-fitting clothes and you can fall in love. Hence why you fight and shoot and dodge and do all the action movie staples... because that's what fans want. This is a PRODUCT made by a COMPANY, not some painting made for the sake of art.

I get it. You want video games to be on the same level of art as novels and movies, but video games are beta tested and reviewed, like movies are shown to test audiences, to see if the viewers will enjoy the product. Many games undergo changes multiple times, and if you want video games to be recognized as art you have one problem:

DLC and patches. They change the games and update them constantly. How can a "unchanging artform" be altered constantly and still remain the same as it once was? It can't. They've already changed the game with the addition of day-one DLC. Not
to mention the game is different for each person playing. So why would it be wrong for Bioware to change their ending for the fans instead of for proft? 

/Rant.

[TrveOmegaSlayer]

I'm ok with the ending and the indoc-theory.
Might have a follow up, but it's climatic and ok as it is.

[ZombieJohn84]

His complete praise for the ending and professional reviewers sort of killed it for me. Apparently, this was what they REALLY wanted. I don't know how us forcing them to work on a project they obviously don't/won't believe in will work.

I was under the impression they ran out of time or resources or SOMETHING and we were giving them an opportunity to fix it. After reading this and Final Hours, I don't think that's the case. They really BELIEVED in this A,B,C ending...

So we really are forcing them to go back and change their ideals. That kinda sucks.

Again, what a mess!! I don't see this going anywhere good, to be honest.

In the end, it can never be disputed that they lied to us about how things would play out. All else is lots of speculation.

[JulienJaden]

I guess we have to thank Ray, though. Some who were starting to lose hope and might have let it pass are probably furious right now. I have to say, while I'm in for the long haul, this got me all fired up again. I will not let BioWare ignore this.

Either they listen to our valid, constructive criticism or they lose me as a customer.

[JayneD]

It's something, but not a lot.

Just going to continue to hold the line while hoping they give me the blue babies I deserve.

[thebatmanreborn]

alberta wrote...


I don't get it - why are you blaming this fan for expressing his/her opinion either way. This fan did NOT cause the ending problem - BW did. Now BW is again blaming ALL fans for not liking the ending. Otherwise why use the "artistic" shield? Or the Reviewers shield? Especially the reviewers shield we know for a FACT only one in 10 even finished the game.

If you know this for a fact, prove it.  I've written game reviews for magazines and newspapers and the rule of thimb was that you finished the game before writting your review.  Where is the evidence to support your claim?

Be rational folks.  A good portion of the fanbase likes the ending.  A good portion of the fanbase that didn't like the ending support artistic rights, like me.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this matter.