2054 réponses à ce sujet

[jerrinehart]

I find it insulting that we are the supposed "hardcore fans in the minority" that dislike the ending. If you look at it objectively you will see they did not follow through on several statements they made prior to the release of the game and that it clearly contradicts many of the key themes in the story. It doesn't make sense and it's been proven the vast majority of players asked about the ending did not like it due to these reasons.

How is it that a national poll may only consist of several thousand votes and be considered much more scientific than just 1 of many on forums across the net? You guys can try and downplay the amount of people who are unhappy all you want but the fact remains regardless of what you say a large portion of people are very unhappy with it.

[Loregothe]

I thought the game was ok. The ending being "addressed" could be a very good thing, or it could be meh, we will see. I don't agree it was the best work they have ever done, it isn't even close. It is the third best game in the series. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean it was bad, just that the others were better. I am glad they at least decided to take the concerns into play. I am sure thisis just a coincidence, but the overall quality of Bioware games has taken a bit of a nosedive under EA. I am not sure why, maybe I have just lost touch with what people think is good.

[Arkitekt]

Changing the endings is a very tall order, and even if folks @ BioWare were sufficiently humble to recognize its problems, I sincerely doubt they would ever take the giganormous enterprise of rewrite the entire ending, which would involve a really big amount of effort and money. We are talking about RetConning the entire ending, give it a lot more feedback from your previous choices, new VAs, new CGI cutscenes, etc.,etc.,etc. And all perhaps for nothing, because let's face it, the guys doing this would be the same guys that think the ending we got was awesome. They would do this annoyed and "forced", not very good motivators for anything (I know what I am talking about, I have had multiple instances of this phenomenon in my profession and it isn't pretty).

While you pretend to speak for everyone, I myself think that to have further closure, closing plot holes, clarifying the whole shebang could be enough to offset most of the concerns some people have over the endings.

Would I prefer an astonishingly different ending? Sure. But that's just not gonna happen. If you reaaaaally want that, I would sincerely and insistently advise you to start gathering a community of modders, VOs and CGI magicians to volunteer to make a mod that would solve all these issues. I doubt BioWare will solve your own issues with ME3.

[musim]

I've really done my best to ride this middle line of not liking the endings, not letting people talk down to me because I dislike the endings, but still loving ME3. But having deleted Facebook and Twitter from my phone I haven't seen the worst of how people are acting. Trying to stage a protest at Bioware's office. Trying to take Bioware to court over false advertisement. Its a bad set of endings but its quite possibly my favorite game of all time (counting me1, me2, and me3 as the same game). Emotionally, I would like to change my stance on Bioware changing or adding an ending. But logically I'm still think it needs to be done. Unfortunately I don't think the circumstances its happening under are going to produce anything I would want in ME3 though. If you're creating something and you feel like the audience is your enemy you are not going to produce something they are going to want if you can even bring yourself to care about that thing.

Bioware I still love you guys and my ears will always perk up when I hear about a new game you're working on. I hope this all works out in a positive way but like the choices in the game, that's not always possible. Mass Effect 3 really is a fantastic game. I hope this tide of people acting horrible subsides soon.

I normally don't participate in developer forums but this post really tugged at my heart strings,

[Mutineer81]

Pointing out that critics approve of it is a bad move; a rookie public relations mistake in this case. I wouldn't even have mentioned the critics - just focus on the fans. Critics often have motivations, interests, and/or insider knowledge. Critics are not the best sample size to rely on. Fans come first, period.

Example: From the beginning (especially in the beginning) to the present, "critics" have slammed Howard Stern. In his early days many said he would never last. Now, fast forward and look at what his MILLIONS of fans did, they made him the greatest radio person ever. So much so that his leaving regular radio crippled the industry.

Moral of the story: When doing damage control (as a result of horrible fan reaction), address the fans, only - don't even mention the critics. Again, rookie mistake.

[Templar537]

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm glad they're addressing the issue, however I was expecting something more than 'closure'. I don't see how they can offer any on an ending which has such enormous plotholes and is so far off from the series. I just wanted a fixed ending.

[Arkitekt]

jerrinehart wrote...

I find it insulting that we are the supposed "hardcore fans in the minority" that dislike the ending.

Ok, I may have missed, who did say that?

[Kalms]

OrangOetan wrote...

"..., so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."

How?? All the relays are destroyed...
And as we learned in Arrival, when that happens it's bye-bye-system, so everyone we know of is dead and every place we know of is wrecked.

Come on, not that old trope again. They didn't explode, they collapsed after releasing the energy in one direction. 

[Atheismo]

laughing sherpa girl wrote...

I would simply like an explanation of why; when you advertised that you would not end the game with an A,B,C style ending choice, your company did exactly that.
An explanation of all the apparently false pre-launch statements and advertising related to the ending, would be greatly appreciated.

That's what some people and Bioware don't seem to understand. People have a right to be angry, advertisements were made that turned out to be utterly false.

If you were sold a car that didnt contain what was advertised, or a home that wasnt the specs advertised, or any other item you'd be angry. A game is an item. Bioware (Casey and others) advertised it with specific claims.

Those claims, especially of wildly different and unique endings, were false.

People have a right to be angry.

[Bestyj669]

Not exactly "on topic" but ME3 related nonetheless, maybe someone here will bother to answer ... Is the whole PS3 Tech Support team on holiday?

[SiriusXI]

"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. "

That sounds bad... really bad. I will translate:

"We will not change the ending whatsoever! What we will do, is offer some DLC that have nothing to do with the ending, but will in some way try to make the whole Godchild and spacemagic thingy more plausible."

And THAT people, will just result in us having even more plotholes. If you have a story that doesn't make sense, it is very difficult to ADD something to it in order to clarify things. I think without a really new ending (like indoctrination theory), all we weill get are some unsatisfactory clarifications on the endigs, mentioned casually within some DLC mission...

I thnk I should just move on and forget about the ME universe... it's starting to make me sick!!

[Halo Quea]

They're not going to change the endings people. If anything they will probably release some additional content that provides clarification for the endings.

Anyone thinking that they're going to just whip up new endings for us has problems with reading comprehension. Lol, don't do this to yourselves.

[InvincibleHero]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Oh, "closure" isn't the only thing that's lacking in those ending(s).

Even if they add a few extra scenes and some epilogues, I'm sure most people still won't be satisfied. The ending(s) are just... so, so nonsensical and so inconsistent with the rest of the trilogy. They stick out like a sore thumb, full of plot holes and other logic-defying mishaps, and it's hard to offer constructive criticism to Bioware when so much is wrong with them (yet Bioware seems to be of the opposite opinion).

It's just a shame that Bioware allowed these ending(s) into the final game. I'm afraid any changes they make will fall far short of resolving most of the issues people have with them, barring any substantial rewrites to those last 10 minutes

I wish Bioware luck here.

I have no doubt they can close all plot holes or leaps of logic with exposition, but fear you are right people aren't going to accept just that despite saying that is what they want. As I pointed out time and again they want their one specific happy ending but were not honest enough to say it.

[BuddhaGeek]

XTR3M3 wrote...

One of the problems for me, the lore and plot conflicts not withstanding, is that the endings were hyped by BioWare to be driven by the choices we made in the game and the previous games in the series. This was simply not the case. I have played this game more than 2 different ways and no matter what, the choices at the end are EXACTLY the same as long as my EMS meter is about the prescribed level.

My thoughts exactly.  It's not just that we didn't get an ending that made sense, it's that all the work we put into the games ultimately meant nothing after we were told that everything we had done in the previous games and the current would affect the ending in vastly different ways.  To have that taken away from me at the last second just feels like I've been lied to.

[Heather Cline]

Ok here is what I have to say about his feedback.

Thank you for speaking out about this first and foremost. I however do not agree with the statement that the game critics are giving positive reviews because they genuinely like the game ending. It has been proven that if a reviewer does NOT give a game a high score then a game company or publisher will not bring their business back to that review site or magazine. Therefore trusting a game reviewers score is not possible because it is NOT an honest review.

That said here are my complaints about ME3 as a whole.

First off is the strange head animations that I've seen. One instance is where Liara and FemShep are talking and you have the dialogue wheel and you pick one of the options under the investigate and Glyph comes along and then FemShep and occasionally Liara move their head constantly to look at Glyph even after he's left the conversation never looking at one another.

Next is another head animation you are speaking to Traynor with the auto dialogue and her head turns around 180 degrees and looks at you while speaking while the body is facing towards the console she is working on.

Next is graphic problems. There are glowing lips and mouths for FemShep at least in several scenes like on TIM's base near the end of the game. Lip syncing problems are also included there to the audio. Joker's face looks fat and chunky instead of how he looked in the first 2 games. Anderson doesn't really look like Anderson as his face looks all washed out. Atheyta doesn't look like Atheyta at all. In ME2 she was unique looking, had light blue Asari skin like Liara and had a unique face. In ME3 she is now a darker shade of blue, her face doesn't look anything like it did in ME2. Only thing that identified her as Atheyta was her VO. If not for that she looked like another random Asari to me. Then there are the hands of FemShep and many other characters like Conrad Verner. Their hands look like old people hands. This was a problem in DA2 as well. The hands looked all wrinkled and old. FemShep's skin color on the hands did not match the skin color of her face. It was a shade darker or a shade lighter depending on the scene.

Auto dialogue is a problem. We were told that the story mode and the full RPG mode would guarantee no auto-dialogue while the action mode would have the auto-dialogue. We were lied to about that as there is more auto-dialogue in the RPG mode and story mode. ME1 and ME2 did not have this. A good example is the dialogue with Kalisha Bint Sint Al-Jilani on the Citadel in ME3 where you have either renegade or paragon interrupts but no possibility to use the dialogue wheel that you had in ME1 and ME2. This isn't the only instance of the auto-dialogue. Talking to Joker or EDI on the Normandy there is a bunch of auto-dialogue that you don't get to even have the choice of what you say.

Next complaint is the romance scenes for Liara/FemShep and FemShep/Traynor. The Liara one has Liara fully nude but no naughty bits showing but FemShep is in that bra and panties. That ruins immersion while one partner is fully undressed the other one is still partially clothed. That scene could have been done better. FemShep could have been fully unclothed just used different camera angles to hide her naughty bits. It was done for Liara in that scene, could have been done for FemShep.

The FemShep/Traynor one is completely unbelievable and is even worse than the Liara/FemShep scene. Traynor is in a shower with her underwear on. No one showers like that in real life unless they are drunk or high on drugs. The suspension of disbelief goes right out the window. Again the use of camera angles could have covered up any naughty bits. Then bringing FemShep into the shower fully clothed is again not something anyone does if they are going to have a romantic interlude in the shower. Said person would get undressed first before joining their intended in the shower in the first place. Again breaks immersion.

This also leads to the Traynor/FemShep dynamic of their relationship. There isn't any flirting going on, there isn't any talks on the ship to get to know Traynor more and have the option to flirt with her. Heck Cortez got more screen time than Traynor off ship and even in the shuttle bay. Traynor did not get much at all it was a couple of conversations about missions, some auto-dialogue about ends of missions and nothing more.

My next point is how femShep runs when not in armor. Her elbows are pointed out to the sides and hands are pointed inwards. No woman I've seen including myself runs like that. The elbows are usually pointed in towards the torso to cut down on wind resistance and overall friction. She also runs like a man. Her legs are set apart like a mans when they run instead of closer together. Go back to the animations of ME1 and watch how FemShep jogs/runs and you will see that she runs like a real woman not some man. This also points out that her toes point out to her sides instead of straight ahead. Women don't walk with toes pointed out to the sides. Men do that. These animations are just as bad if not worse than the animation set from ME2.

This final game seems to be more about it being Bioware's Shepard than our Shepard. And this is wrong to me.

Now I come to the endings. We were promised 16 different endings and we did not get that. What we got was 1 ending with 3 different color variations and maybe 16 different tweaks on that same ending. We did not get a range of endings going from The Reapers win, to Shepard lives and lives out the rest of her/his life with the LI. 16 differing endings which were really different is what we were supposed to have and we did not get them. I'm not sure how hard it is to craft the 16 different endings but we were promised them and we did not get them. Bioware and the ME team failed to deliver. As I said before one ending could be the Reapers win and all life is harvested. Another ending is Shepard sacrifices her/his self and destroys the Reapers and the galaxy is saved. Perhaps earth is destroyed. Another ending is Shepard survives and maybe dies in the arms of their LI. Then there is one where Shepard dies and the earth is saved, there is a memorial service for Shepard. Another as I stated is Shepard survives and goes on to live out her/his life with LI and possibly have kids.

Plot holes... They abound in this game. In ME2 we had hinting of Dark Energy causing suns to go bad. Where is the content dealing with that issue? The endings are also full of plot holes and I don't think there is any defense against that. Why was Joker in hyperspace jump when he was actually in battle agains the reaper forces above earth? How did the squad that was on earth with no way up to the Normandy get magically transported on board in the first place? Why would the ground team leave Shepard when we know they would not if there was a way up to the Normandy?

Then there is the whole Rachni Queen problem. If you killed the Rachni Queen off in ME1 there was no mention of it in ME2. But in ME3 the reapers found a Rachni Queen and is using it anyways. That is a major inconsistency right there.

Next is Mordin. He did not sound like Mordin from ME2. In fact I could tell right away it was someone else doing his VO. Major immersion breaker.

Then there is the whole MP to get the best possible ending. You said that we didn't need to do MP to get the best possible ending. That was a lie. The only way to get the best possible ending out of all those bad endings is to play MP. We were told to get the Shepard breathing scene after the cutscene was that we had to have enough war assets only and to pick the Destroy ending. Many people have come forward saying they can't get it without doing MP. MP was to help with needing LESS war assets to get that ending. Instead we are forced to do MP to get that ending no matter what. Many of us hate MP but are forced to play it anyways to get the so called 'best' ending.

Our complaints aren't that we need time to say goodbye to the game. We knew the series was ending. What it is, is that the endings were not what we were promised, the game was not what we were promised. Auto-Dialogue abounds in the Story and RPG mode. The romance scenes for FemShep/Liara and FemShep/Traynor were not believable. The romance between FemShep/Traynor was lack luster and had no depth. There are extremely bad animations ranging from the not looking at the person you are talking to, heads turning 180 degrees, and the running animations for FemShep. The use of MP to get the 'best' ending is mandatory instead of optional. The Rachni Queen still exists even if you killed it. Mordin's VO is not Mordin at all. Plot holes abound in the game including the ending of it. Characters not looking like they should from previous games. Graphical problems in certain areas of the game. The endings were not what we were promised in the PR interviews and the ad campaigns. False advertisement is actually illegal and that is what we got false advertisement.

This is not to say that the story was bad overall up until the endings. No I quite enjoyed the story itself even with the plot holes I saw and the forced use of MP to get the 'best' ending. I just hate the endings and the plot holes and many other issues I've stated above. This game could have been great. It could have been the best game by far by Bioware but it wasn't it fell very short and very flat in several area's including the endings.

These issues are why I am upset with the ME team and Bioware. These issues are why I refuse to buy DLC and future games, because this game promised us many things and failed to deliver. DA2 promised us many things and failed to deliver. There is an old saying... "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you." The saying is apt, you fooled me twice so shame on you and you won't be getting my business anymore.

False advertisement leads to loss of customers and consumers. Any business knows that. Why falsely advertise then fail to deliver? It makes no sense. And before anyone says that it was a mistake. A mistake is making Joker look chunky in the face. A mistake is making Atheyta not look like Atheyta. Those are mistakes, what was done was blatant lying and out right false advertisement. This is not something I can abide by.

I wish you luck in the future with your games, this is my constructive criticism for ME3 as well Bioware/EA.

Modifié par Heather Cline, 21 mars 2012 - 05:54 .

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

 "...our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."


OH YAAAAH! 

SUPER excited for future installments in the Mass Effect series!  Awsome that you guys want to continue our journey in the ME universe.

Seriously can not wait for future games! 

Modifié par GME_ThorianCreeper, 21 mars 2012 - 05:05 .

[HolmesLovesGuinness]

Mutineer81 wrote...

Pointing out that critics approve of it is a bad move; a rookie public relations mistake in this case. I wouldn't even have mentioned the critics - just focus on the fans. Critics often have motivations, interests, and/or insider knowledge. Critics are not the best sample size to rely on. Fans come first, period.

Moral of the story: When doing damage control (as a result of horrible fan reaction), address the fans, only - don't even mention the critics. Again, rookie mistake.

THIS

[jerrinehart]

Arkitekt wrote...

jerrinehart wrote...

I find it insulting that we are the supposed "hardcore fans in the minority" that dislike the ending.

Ok, I may have missed, who did say that?

 On one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback, and we’re planning to directly address it. However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better.

[Viyu]

People want options. Distinctly different options, and none of this A,B,C endings stuff. We don't want you guys to simply "explain" the plotholes, we want there to be player choice. Casey Hudson says we the gamers are "co-creators" to the series, but you guys are acting like the writers are the only artists in this story, by making a linear ending.

[Gravbh]

By all-means add some clarification. Actually changing the ending however? If Bioware goes down that slippery sloap I'll lose a lot of respect for them.

[Champion_of_Tzeentch]

 Well I was getting my hopes up yet again but this is just another load of nothing. On top of that you hardly even need to read between the lines to see that he really wants to dismiss the angry fans but can't afford to. The overused argument of artistic license is a joke. First and foremost this is the third game in a series that fans were meant to be able to shape. Forcing all choices to lead into what was almost the exact same thing just to force a ridiculous twist is not justifiable. I nearly had to laugh but felt more like crying when he continues with "but we got good ratings!!!". We are the majority and we can think for ourselves. It's like saying that our opinion is less true than that of some critics. Our opinions might not be as powerful individually but with tons of fans sharing them they can't be ignored, hence why he is writing the statement in the first place. I wish he would just own up to that and I wish the writers that were in charge of the ending would just admit that they made a bad call. Yet this statement is just more proof that it will never happen. All I can hope for now is that they at least ATTEMPT to fix the ending, by changing it or at least expanding on it, but don't be fooled and think that Ray confirmed this in his statement. He didn't say anything that couldn't be interprated differently (or simply ignored, we know bioware is capable of that) along the line.

[tschamp]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Oh, "closure" isn't the only thing that's lacking in those ending(s).

Even if they add a few extra scenes and some epilogues, I'm sure most people still won't be satisfied. The ending(s) are just... so, so nonsensical and so inconsistent with the rest of the trilogy. They stick out like a sore thumb, full of plot holes and other logic-defying mishaps, and it's hard to offer constructive criticism to Bioware when so much is wrong with them (yet Bioware seems to be of the opposite opinion).

It's just a shame that Bioware allowed these ending(s) into the final game. I'm afraid any changes they make will fall far short of resolving most of the issues people have with them, barring any substantial rewrites to those last 10 minutes

I wish Bioware luck here.

I have no doubt they can close all plot holes or leaps of logic with exposition, but fear you are right people aren't going to accept just that despite saying that is what they want. As I pointed out time and again they want their one specific happy ending but were not honest enough to say it.

Ummm...No. I, for one, want was promised in interview. A ending were all the choices I made since ME 1 creates a distinct ending and not a different color gas ball because I pick door 2.

[Getorex]

InvincibleHero wrote...



Show me where they promised you would have a happy ending and everyone would be pleased. I'm waiting. They gave three choices and what you did in the game changed those slightly and it was more than we got in the first two games.

Seriously?  In ME1 you HAD to come out Ok or the entire game was done.  OK.  No problem because it is early.  ME2 you can end in any number of ways:  ALL dead (including Shep), Some dead (mix and match), or NONE dead (happy ending).  ME1 and ME2 both have happy endings.  ME2 has one as an OPTION.  Clearly then, happy endings are 100% compatible and in line with the entire story.

In any case, it depends on what they are aiming for.  Do they have ANY desire for people (most, not the odd man out) to replay ME3?  If not, then they can kill Shep in all the endings and that's fine.  They can even make them all grim with just sprinkles of hopyness.  If, on the other hand, they want people to pump their fist and want to go in for another run OR curse and go in for another run to improve the ending to what they like, then you cannot have ONLY depressing, deathy darky endings.  Simple logic and psychology.  

I want the OPTION of a mostly happy ending (meaning Shep does NOT die and there is some indication that he can reunite with crew/friends/LI).  It doesn't even have to be explicitly shown for me to be OK with it but there has to be something to aim UP for.  If I'm only able to change my position in the graveyard then I don't care.  One place is as good as another because I'M DEAD.

[Tyranniac]

We do not want the ending to be explained. What we want is the various different endings that we were promised, not an explanation to the the three nonsensical and bleak ones that we have. We want endings that don't go against everything Mass Effect has been about. Don't let this amazing series be ruined like this.

[azereus2]

ratzerman wrote...

Folks, can we please drop the "EA buys reviews, forces PR spin" stuff? It's insulting. Let's just take him at his word, and see what happens.

Please?

Why? because they asked on their youtube channel to subcribe, also on facebook, they promised us with a gazillion things they didnt delivered. That is plain lieing at peoples face.
And then we see a 9.8 on ign? did the critic on IGN actually played mass efffect1  and 2? 
Did he realized that no matter what you do on mass effect 3 ( choises regarding ) everything ends the same for everyone?. if you have the geth fleet or the quarian fleet it its the same as not having neither. Clearly the IGN critic did not played the game. 
9.8 for gameplay you say? ok.. gears of war programing has the same movement, covering jumping and shotting, nothing new there ( and the shotting and covering is similar to me2 ), you say the IA?.. well a few tweaks from the me2 IA and thats done. graphics? graphics goes up every year, so those graphics are standar now in the industry nothing ground breaking in the game. Voice acting you say?... same as mass effect 1 and 2. 

I am sorry but, i feel everysingle interview they did its a huge lie out of EA standar budget for publicity.