2054 réponses à ce sujet

[jackyboy666]

Harbinger says it all...

[harrier25699]

I was so certain this was all a ruse by BioWare, that the indoc theory was correct and that they would explain the bitter-disappointment-of-an-ending that we got with a surprise similarly to the goliath thing, they register 1 mil game completions with their in-game log taking and pop out an ending pack based on the most populat choices. Alas we were too clever for our own good and it was all for naught.

It is hard to believe that all these indoc 'seeds' in the game were actually not retcon, just a series of coicidences..

Modifié par harrier25699, 21 mars 2012 - 05:30 .

[catofnine]

Dear Dr. Muzyka,

Thank you for your measured and well articulated response.

However, I don't recommend cloaking the game behind professional reviewers.  It only gives us rabies.  They're not your customers, we are.

Given the last couple offerings (DA2, ME3) by your studio it seems to me that you and team have forgotten who your audiences are and what makes them tick.  Sure we may enjoy the visuals, character and plot arcs, and the gameplay of games, but at the end of the day what colors some of our perceptions of a game is the game's emotional tone at the end. The place for artsy ending and "lots of speculation for everybody" belongs in the second act, not the final act.  

A lot us are adults who can handle the loss of a beloved protagonist.  However, bittersweet artsy ending or no, your players needed to walk away from the game and trilogy with the feeling of "FK YEAH, WE TOTALLY ROCKED THIS."  With the ending as is, Hudson and Co. took that feeling right out of the game and away from your fans.  They need to put it back if there's any hope of salvaging this title.  And if all this talk of emotional tone is completely foreign to them, then sorry, I believe they're in the wrong line of work.   Road to hell is paved with good intentions, and they really ripped the hearts out of a lot of fans on this one.  

If there's anything I would suggest it would be that when you look over what Hudson and co have on table in terms of dlc etc, ask them "if you were a gamer, would you be thrilled out of your gourd to experience this?"  Would it make your players go: "WOW THAT WAS INSANELY AWESOME" yes, in big screaming caps even.   If I were Bioware right now, I'd make sure that any DLC that's being shipped is substantive and so mindblowingly awesome that for your fans ordinary superlatives just won't do, they gotta make up new ones to describe the content.

Thank you for your time.  Best of luck to you.

[Getorex]

Ton.G wrote...

I would post my comment a million times if I could, but seriously, I have nothing but respect for Casey, Ray and the entire Bioware staff. Considering the expectations alone to create Mass Effect 3 and bring everything into one climaxed perspective was an uphill battle before this masterpiece even went into development. I personally think what Bioware has done is technical brilliance. Ending included. I'm no smarter or sophisticated than the average gamer, But I embraced the ending and understood it's message. When all life's existance is at steak, how probable is it really be to walk off into the sunset

Hmmm...Let's borrow from history.  WWII, the winners all walked off into the sunset.  Sure, not all the "mere" soldiers did but ALL the main leaders of the efforts for the Allies did.  Every one of them.  Not a single one died to achieve victory.  

US Revolutionary War.  The closest thing to a Shepard you can find in there is George Washington.  A capture or loss would have meant death to EVERY person who signed the Declaration of Independence AND for George Washington.  They would all have swung from ropes.  They won against THE world superpower against ALL odds yet not a single one of them died in the effort.  Not a one.  The Shepard of the whole thing, Washington, went on to serve 2 terms as Prez and then died at a ripe old age. 

You can pick conflict after conflict and in every single case, the ones who get the ugly, painful ending is invariably the LOSER.  The LOSER gets the bleak, dark, painful end.  Now, as I said LOTS of good people die to get to that point but it is not the Shepards of the conflict. 

This stretches the argument a bit but it is objectively false to claim that "of course Shepard HAS to die because...big issue resolved!"  So?  Show me in history where this is the rule?

[HectorTheWellEndowed]

So you're going to sell us the closure that should already be in the game? Good for you. You're not going to get one more cent from me. Have fun destroying the amazing franchise you built Bioware, i'm done. Hector out.

[Arkitekt]

ShinsFortress wrote...

I resent the implication in the blog that the many of us who vehemently dislike the ending AND are angry with the elements promised not provided are some sort of hardcore bunch of malcontents. Okay, maybe not all malcontents but you get the drift.

What he *actually said* was:

So, it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations. Our first instinct is to defend our work and point to the high ratings offered by critics – but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility.

(...)

 even so, the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. 
 

The part where you may be referring to is probably this:

Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive.  

So I really don't get what the hell you are saying, and my wild guess is that it's precisely this kind of irrational anger towards BioWare and EA, etc., expressed in ill-formed comments and opinion pieces that pisses off their staff, who are much probably tired of overworking the hell of their latest big effort to push what they honestly think was the best game they ever produced (in overall terms). And I couldn't frakking agree more.

[Ender_OM]

In response to Dr. Ray Muzyka letter and in order to offer constructive criticism as requested, I would like to note the following:

1. The fact that many professional critics have given positive reviews to ME3 is not at all a reason to become complacent. Critics only have a few days to spend on the game in which time they can hardly get an in depth feel for the universe and the story as a whole;  most often their views are given at a superficial level. On the other hand, people who played all the ME instalments, who read all the books and all the comics, have a much better grasp of the ME universe and all its intricacies, and it is exactly these people, who have invested not only time (hundreds of hours of it) and money into ME but also feelings and emotions, that are complaining. That is why the BioWare team should listen more to the fans and less to the professional critics.

2. The fundamental reason why people are disappointed is that they feel they have been lied to. On countless occasions the developers have said that decisions you make during all three games will influence the final outcome. This is exactly the one fundamental point where players feel that they have been cheated spectacularly.  The game has 3 variations on one given theme – everything is lost regardless of anything and everything. Does this make you feel like anything you did mattered at all? Furthermore, the responses that we have had so far from the developers seem to be missing exactly this point. Instead, they concentrate on the fact that fans wanted a bit more closure to the story, which is kind of the wrong end of the stick. Dear developers, closure is good, but feeling that the decisions we’ve made actually matter is what we really want. Moreover, closure is easily achievable through DLCs whereas implementing different endings based on previous decisions is at a whole different level. Do not dare to think that fans are some ignorant individuals that can’t spot the difference so do not try to take the easy way out because there isn’t one! Coming up with endings that will give players a sense of achievement is the only viable option in the long run, and I’m not talking strictly in terms of ME here, but in terms of BioWare as a company.  What the BioWare team should get very clear in their minds is that TRUST is very hard to earn but is dead easy to lose and once you’ve lost it, it is exponentially more difficult to earn it back!

3. ME3 is a supposed to be a piece of entertainment. Let me make this point clear: this is not real life and it is not meant to be like real life. People have a real life to deal with every day! The reason why people buy a game and spend time playing it is that they WANT TO RELAX AND FEEL GOOD! People don’t want a slap in the face, they don’t want to get frustrated, they don’t want to get depressed, they don’t want to get annoyed, etc… They get that kind of rubbish in real life and they hardly need it from a game. The whole point of entertainment is to entertain, pure and simple. Once a piece of entertainment seizes to entertain people and it actually does quite the opposite then you have a very clear indication that something somewhere is seriously wrong. So yes, many of us want a happy cheesy ending! That is not to say that a dramatic ending is not welcome but many people would very much like to have a say in that – at the end of the day this is a game that prides itself on giving players a choice! Furthermore, I am sure that many people would have accepted a dramatic ending, be it even one that gives you no joy, IF it was well made.  And that is really the big IF right there! Fans have been shocked by the lack of quality and substance of the ending to an otherwise extraordinary game. Had the game been average I am certain there would have been few complaints about the ending. However, you simply cannot wrap up a game like this with an ending that is riddled with plot holes and lacks substance, it is simply outrageous.

4. DLC available on day 1? I mean really, if it was not for the spectacular flop with the ending, this alone would have pissed off quite a few people. As it stands however, people are too busy complaining about the ending to give sufficient attention to this otherwise very delicate aspect. I seriously think that you guys need to employ a better PR team… And mind you, once the ending outrage dies out it may actually sink in to fans that they also had to pay extra for something that should have been included in the game in the first place.

Finally, I would like to thank you if you have actually spent the time to read through everything I had to say.

Modifié par Ender_OM, 21 mars 2012 - 05:31 .

[The Big Palooka]

I have a comment specifically related to the concept of artistic integrity.  This is an issue that has been brought up multiple times over the past couple weeks.  I and I think most of us involved in Retake ME3 have the utmost respect and admiration for the individuals who've worked on these games.

When it comes to these endings, however, I have to ask - exactly whose, and exactly what artistic integrity are we protecting?  We've made it clear as fans that from our perspective, the endings are absolutely unacceptable from a narrative standpoint, and I certainly hope there isn't any question in anyone's mind as to whether the story could've been concluded 'properly' through different endings besides the three very similar options we were given.  The answer is yes, absolutely it could have.

The issue I have with defending the endings in terms of the artistic integrity of the story is that Mass Effect 3 is a commercial product, produced by a large team of individuals, some of whom had no part in its origin, others who had no part in its conclusion.  It seems clear that among that group, there were differing opinions of how the game should be constructed and how the story should go, no matter how unified of a front the team presents to the outside world.  That's just part of the human experience.  We also know that not only was this work the product of multiple individuals with differing opinions, but that the actual intentions of the team did change throughout the production process.  There's been a lot of talk on these forums about the apparently abandoned 'dark energy' and 'genetic diversity' plotlines, neither of which end up factoring into the conclusion of the game.  Again, this isn't surprising.  It's natural that over the course of a long development process, things will change.  Sometimes this is an excellent thing - sometimes it's even the result of fan input, such as allowing fan-favorite characters Garrus and Tali to be romancable in ME2.

Throughout the development of the Mass Effect series, there has always been great flexibility in terms of adjusting, refining, adding or outright changing content in pursuit of a better final product.  I sincerely hope that you ladies and gentlemen at Bioware will not hesitate now in the truly excellent willingness to improve you've shown in the past, just because the scene in question happens to be the ending.  Simply because a scene is the last one does not mean it is less subject to criticism. 

An ending should be an emotionally and narratively appropriate culmination of all the scenes preceding it.  There's nothing inherently sacred about an ending from an artistic viewpoint when it fails in that very basic purpose.  I am convinced that Mass Effect 3's ending does fail in this regard, and unfortunately, does so pretty spectacularly.

Please continue to be receptive to our concerns.  Nothing will be gained by attempting to defend ME3's ending.

Thanks for reading.

[Mr Indivisible]

I can't add much, the ending was terrible, because it broke the suspension of disbelief (not because it was happy, sad or didn't let us say goodbye), how has been outline many times.

The game has other problems, such as the Rachni, poor execution in honoring past choices (you kill the queen in #1, oh look another queen).

All that said, it was a decent response, and what I expected. They can't fix all the problems, like the Rachni. Those problems are intrinsic to the 'push' for new fans, making it so people didn't have to play the other two to understand 3. Its sad, because all of us that did, want the homage (my other account is Aireoth and has all the games, but because of origin, i had to make this one). We will never get this from a large company like EA, the focus is on profit not existing customers.

Reality Ray, the only thing you need to fix is the ending, its sloppy, rushed, and full of silly space logic. The art of leaving something unknown was lost in this ending, the reapers should never have been explained, they are incomprehensible. Instead, they tried to leave the unknown as 'relays blown up, what happens to fleet and galaxy' wrong focus.

Anyway, good luck, you've got an amazing storm on your hands.

[cmj428]

FinalEndeavor wrote...

I'm glad he said that content is being worked on to add  closure for us. But what exactly are they doing. They have SOOOOOO many plotholes that don't make sense at all!!!!!

He said we'll hear more about it in April.
So we have to wait to see.
This is not suprising considering 1 it may not be complete and if they change anything from what they say they are doing, people will be outraged(again).
2. If they release something that changes the endings the annoucement would need to be close to the release of the content or who is going to buy the game when they know they won't get the real ending for several weeks.

[Belhawk]

I agree with catofnine.
any DLCs need to be at the level of SHADOWBROKER.

[ArthurBDD]

Another thing I would say to urge the team to add more choices and branches to the ending: don't think of it as compromising the artistic integrity of the ending, think of it as being true to the conceptual integrity of the trilogy as a whole, and the excellent precedent set by the massively branching ending to ME2.

If the original endings are still there but can be avoided by players who find them not to their taste, everyone wins. From the point of view of the audience, you're giving something to the players who want alternate endings without taking anything away from players who like the current ones. From your point of view, you get to keep your original vision for the ending intact whilst at the same time satisfying the concerns of a sizeable chunk of the audience, so if you play your cards right you can come away with all the praise and none of the blame. If you finesse this right and bear in mind that people want CHOICE as well as closure, everyone could come out ahead.

Modifié par ArthurBDD, 21 mars 2012 - 05:33 .

[harrier25699]

catofnine wrote...

Dear Dr. Muzyka,

Thank you for your measured and well articulated response.

However, I don't recommend cloaking the game behind professional reviewers.  It only gives us rabies.  They're not your customers, we are.

Given the last couple offerings (DA2, ME3) by your studio it seems to me that you and team have forgotten who your audiences are and what makes them tick.  Sure we may enjoy the visuals, character and plot arcs, and the gameplay of games, but at the end of the day what colors some of our perceptions of a game is the game's emotional tone at the end. The place for artsy ending and "lots of speculation for everybody" belongs in the second act, not the final act.  

A lot us are adults who can handle the loss of a beloved protagonist.  However, bittersweet artsy ending or no, your players needed to walk away from the game and trilogy with the feeling of "FK YEAH, WE TOTALLY ROCKED THIS."  With the ending as is, Hudson and Co. took that feeling right out of the game and away from your fans.  They need to put it back if there's any hope of salvaging this title.  And if all this talk of emotional tone is completely foreign to them, then sorry, I believe they're in the wrong line of work.   Road to hell is paved with good intentions, and they really ripped the hearts out of a lot of fans on this one.  

If there's anything I would suggest it would be that when you look over what Hudson and co have on table in terms of dlc etc, ask them "if you were a gamer, would you be thrilled out of your gourd to experience this?"  Would it make your players go: "WOW THAT WAS INSANELY AWESOME" yes, in big screaming caps even.   If I were Bioware right now, I'd make sure that any DLC that's being shipped is substantive and so mindblowingly awesome that for your fans ordinary superlatives just won't do, they gotta make up new ones to describe the content.

Thank you for your time.  Best of luck to you.

Wow, really well put.  So glad you posted this

[Eralrik]

First off I'd like to apologize to Chris Preistly and Casey Hudson and the I've admired you guys for a long time and that I acted as a jerk when I made earlier posts.
An Ray hit on some valid points without actualy dropping any spoilers or breaking the NDA so I completely understand that.

But I still can't wrap my mind around the ending, now if I was a new player and really didn't know anything about the Mass Effect Lore or the universe then the endings was really cool and kinda breath taking. But as an Avid Fan and having played the ME 1 & 2 several times and even had to get my cd key for ME1 and its expansion changed 4 times from over use and HDD formats and Also ME2, I think I'm on my 13th play through and while I greatly enjoyed ME3's journey to the end and I am also on another play through but I'll probably stop just before the final push to the citadel on Earth.
The ending just deosn't meet with the correct ending for the wrap up of the universe that we as fans have come to love, cry and enjoy that we talk about it to our freinds, co-workers and anyone who will listen.
<Spoiler> That said the ending has plot holes galore and each choice makes Shepard feel like the greatest War Crimminal that ever existed, after finally making peace with the Geth and getting the Quarians home we now choose to destroy them and Joker who is now really happy, we destroy his love interest and leave the mad utterly in chaos by crushing him after helping him Just to destroy the reapers not to mention any Alien or Human in the Galaxy that has cyborg implants will die.

Then after you make a choice from the 3 each has a price to pay for the rest of the galaxy as all the Mass Relays have been destroyed and the fleet we built and it was pretty impressive is now stranded in the Sol system with no way home and I sure as heck aint telling Wrex or Jacob that they won't be home to see their kids born.

An on top of all that if the Lore we know to be true and from playing the very fun DLC Arrival in ME2 that the destruction of a Mass Relay would in effect cause a SuperNova wiping out all life in the solar system, so that being said our 3 choices really don't work with the added addition of the relays getting destroyed as each system has one and would in effect cause Supernova's wiping out all life including the Sol system and our massive fleet and the citadel.
Coarse one of my biggest questions is the system where Omega sits in it has 2 Mass Relays, the regualr relay and the Omega 4 Relay both get destroyed what type of explosion and the destruction from both would cause it boggles the mind.
So in essense Shepard does in a matter of weeks what it would have taken the Reapers 100+ years according to Liara to wipe all life in the galaxy with just the push of a button and surrending to the reaper kid and giving up our free will anc chucking in the towel.
That being said if I was a new player I wouldn't change a thing about the game as it is pretty awsome, but I'm not and I stand with the other players wanting ending choices that match the ME3 universe and able to keep some of the promises that Shepard gave as a Paragon and possibly become an Admiral and help rebuild humanity and the other fallen civilization's and closure and plot holes filled.
An I still support BW and believe that everyone will make the right choices and review the lore that has been built around the Universe, so good work BW ME team many kudos go out to you and your family's for the patience while building this game.

Modifié par Eralrik, 21 mars 2012 - 05:35 .

[Getorex]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

I absolutely love how how the "movement" finally gets a statement from the head honcho and what he says still is not good enough for them.

He said there would be DLC that answers questions about the ending, even if it doesn't change the ending, and you do the DLC before the ending, that means plot holes will be addressed and answers will be given.

What more do you want them to do? Bake you an apology cake or something?

The plot holes can be PARTIALLY filled, but not corrected.  No way.  Impossible.

Sorry, but no amount of dancing changes the fact -the stone cold fact - that the Normandy crew ends up on Incest planet and their child decendents are doomed to die as freaks.  They are ALL the inevitable products of incest.  There is not enough people on the Normandy by a HUGE margin to jumpstart a new civilization as is depicted by stargazer and the kid.  Incest planet cannot be fixed with exposition.  It is biological fact.

[Invisigoth]

I am very happy that Bioware has broken the silence on this issue and, although I wish Mr. Muzyka would have been a bit less vague on his statement, I consider this a good first step on solving this whole debacle.

However, doesn't matter what side of this equation you fall on as a fan and as a player, I cannot put enough stress on this:

Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary.

We may think we are right, they are wrong, or viceversa, but whatever the case may be, THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO ATTACK MR. HUDSON OR THE MEMBERS OF HIS TEAM. You may be correct in your argument but that sort of behavior makes you a BULLY.

As the saying goes, "you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar." Always remember to keep it civil.

Hold the line.

Modifié par Invisigoth, 21 mars 2012 - 05:34 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

I hope it just isn't another Bioware Bazar...

I know it's a forbidden theme but I just had to bring it, after all we had the same polite response from Dr. Muzyka at the time and we got NOTHING from it.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 21 mars 2012 - 05:34 .

[lobotomy42]

Kudos to them for responding this quickly.

[JediHealerCosmin]

All of a sudden I have the urge to play through the game again... 

[Ton.G]

(Sorry, hit the submit button early)

I would post my comment a million times if I could, but seriously, I have nothing but respect for Casey, Ray and the entire Bioware staff. Considering the expectations alone to create Mass Effect 3 and bring everything into one climaxed perspective was an uphill battle before this masterpiece even went into development. I personally think what Bioware has done with Mass Effect 3 is technologically brilliant... Ending included. I'm no smarter or sophisticated than the average gamer, But I embraced the ending and understood it's message. When all life's existance is at steak, how probable is it really be to walk off into the sunset with everything being "sweet and dandy." Now that said, yeah---that's only my opinion. For Bioware to even address the public outrage about the endings is a noble and respectable move in itself. Most publishers/developers would simply restrain from comments and allow sales to grow and tempers to flare. Bioware understands it's fans, and shows true respect by addressing this to the public. Who does that?? Nuff' Respect Casey, Ray and staff. I hear the fans anger and I love them for being vocal and expressive about it---still, Bioware shouldn't be pushed into a corner after already releasing a brilliant game. Yeah, somtimes endings are bitter sweet, but the incredible journeys gotta account for something, right?

[Squallypo]

Dr ray was trying to indoctrinate us, HOLD THE LINE

[Aravius]

Lunar Savage wrote...

Here's a great forbes article on Muzyka's response:

http://www.forbes.co....nding-sort-of/

The only thing I can add, is that they are once again downplaying the criticism. Which is yet another PR move. And this time, by one of the founders. It's a very strong play, and altogether a brilliant move. But it more or less confirms my suspicions that they don't really care and that they're likely going to go on through with their plans to squeeze more money out of customers that already payed for the game.

interesting point.

I read the response, I'm done with the game, I'm checking out of the forums for a couple of weeks, and I'm not buying anything from Bioware, until I read on here that they fixed a a multitude of plot holes, they are not hiding behind fanboy reviews, they make my decisions count, and give me some kind of closure.

[SmellyMetal]

Ok thanks for the statement and for reminding us the GREAT critics reviews, so, sadly, your trilogy's ending is canon was really intended this way, I've spent money on multiplayer packs to make the end better but end up destroying the universe anyway, you won't change it, just explain things more (so we'll pay for DLC that will add more to the existing plotholes), no indoctrination theory...I want to puke...Bioware / the MASS EFFECT franchise and me are done professionally. Goodbye.

[Siansonea]

Like it or not, they can't "unring the bell" that is the existing ending. Whatever they do, they'll have to work within the confines of what they've already done, and salvage it somehow.

I would say that Dr. Ray was accurate in his assessment that most people did like the game as a whole. I'm not seeing a lot of criticism of the game other than the ending, at least not on the scale of the ending's criticism. I personally enjoyed a large portion of the game, but was underwhelmed by the ending and later displeased to discover how all the "variable" endings were virtually identical.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

I honestly would like to know how, at any point in time, that they though the endings were a good idea. I keep seeing "Well, we couldn't have anticipated this response." Yeah, if you've been in a bubble since the release of ME1. This just shows how much of a disconnect there was between their offices and their audience. I don't see how they could be this..ignorant. There's no other word for it really.

Silly. We'll go with silly.