2054 réponses à ce sujet

[Timeless-Strife]

For me it all balls down to this: Mass Effect 3 up until the Reaper beam (you know what I'm referring to if you beat the game) was in my opinion awesome. Everything else after the Reaper beam was...how do I say this lightly....BS and should not have gone down the tubes the way it did. I can't wait to see how they are going to handle this.

[tenordan81]

 Thank you Dr. Muzyka,

I look foward to April.  I will continue to support Bioware.

[laughing sherpa girl]

Getorex wrote...

laughing sherpa girl wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

laughing sherpa girl wrote...

I would simply like an explanation of why; when you advertised that you would not end the game with an A,B,C style ending choice, your company did exactly that.
An explanation of all the apparently false pre-launch statements and advertising related to the ending, would be greatly appreciated.

Developers routinely overpromise and under-deliver. Marketers exaggarate the overpromises considerably as part of their effort to generate hype. This is common for most games; heck, most software. I wouldn't bash Bioware too harshly so something so endemic in the software industry. 

And its a hard thing to fix. As a developer, you see what's possible, you make your best guess about what you can achieve within your budget and timelines, and its not until your 1/2 way through when you realize that you let your enthusiasm color your judgements too much.

I understand. I'm a developer of Flight Simulator addons for MS FSX and Lockheeds Prepar3D. Enthusiasm can get you in a pickle for sure. However.. I dont care how hard it is to fix, even with 3500 hours of my personal time in one aircraft, i made a promise to the enthusiasts who enjoy FSX and P3D. I will keep that promise, even though i'm sixty years old, have advanced chronic emphysema and am going senile.  Now certainly if a worthless old broad from the pacific northwest can keep her promise to a few thousand people, it shouldnt be THAT hard for Bioware to keep its promise to a few million. I'd much rather they do that than have to begin to quote federal trade laws..

OK now wait a minute!  You have totally blown my preconceptions of game fan geeks all to hell here!  Who do you think you are?  Software developer...female (I know they exist in this universe but guys tend to outnumber the ladies by quite a margin still)...60 years old...

I thought we were all supposed to be bratty 20-somethings with pasty skin, crappy eating habits, no lives outside (literally, no lives outside), no girlfriends, etc. 

You are blowing my mind! 

Bodies are what age and decay my good siir.. Not the person inside .. Personally, if it werent for all these adult rated previews for games and such where you have to enter your birth date, id still swear i was only 43.. ::chuckles:: but scrolling back to 1951 each time is a sober reminder for sure..
Anyway.. back to the topic at hand.. ..

[chris fenton]

Woooooot!

HOLD. THE. LINE. 

Now, Bioware. I've played your game first in KOTOR. 
After playing it, I've played back to BG.

I really love this company, and ME3 was -a lot- of fun 
I'm holding onto hope you guys know what we really do want.
I know some would say "no 'hollywood' endings" but I feel that I really need it.
And the plotholes need to be fixed.
And our choices need to matter.
I love you guys at Bioware, always have.
I hold out hope. 

Modifié par chris fenton, 21 mars 2012 - 05:47 .

[HowlingSiren]

Thank you, Ray, for taking the time to address our concerns.

I don't know what's more depressing: the heartbreak this issue has caused for both BioWare and the fans, or the fact that BioWare was genuinely surprised by the reaction to this:
(3 endings comparisons side by side).

Still, I am hopeful that the incredibly talented team behind Mass Effect, who as far as I'm concerned, were flawless in their story-telling and execution for 99% of 3 games, can deliver an ending worthy of Commander Shepard, his/her squad and the rich universe they have created.

I look forward to April.

EDIT: and here is my feedback, I agree with Angry Joe on every point: http://thatguywithth...ate-me3s-ending

Modifié par Nina88, 21 mars 2012 - 06:14 .

[Xellith]

Btw I dont mean this offensively. But would one of those critics happen to be IGN who have pretty much decided to bash anyone who thinks the ending stunk? I dont value the opinion of people who would rather resort to name calling and insults instead of reasoned debate.

The ending stunk. The developers at best misled and at worst lied about what we were buying. I am not amused my good Bioware staff.

[Lanceare]

Everyone involved at Bioware should watch this video:

thatguywiththeglasses.com/bt/aj/topreasons/34623-why-we-hate-me3s-ending

It constructiveley and eloquently details the egregious problems with the ending(s).

[vexus vi]

Timeless-Strife wrote...

For me it all balls down to this: Mass Effect 3 up until the Reaper beam (you know what I'm referring to if you beat the game) was in my opinion awesome. Everything else after the Reaper beam was...how do I say this lightly....BS and should not have gone down the tubes the way it did. I can't wait to see how they are going to handle this.

yes. exactally what i felt.

[Tazzmission]

Squallypo wrote...

Dr ray was trying to indoctrinate us, HOLD THE LINE

seriously grow up dude


can you ever be happy?


the man responded and basicly said the devs are gona fix the situation

quit spamming the hold the line crap

[Squallypo]

http://www.forbes.co...nding-sort-of/

check this article , i love forbes been there for us since day one

Modifié par Squallypo, 21 mars 2012 - 05:41 .

[Tankred]

The whole ending sequence after being beamed up to the Citadel is just below Bioware´s former quality standards, and they know it, despite everything said about "art". Especially the flight of the Normandy at the end is completely nonsensical. I guess the Devs just got cold feet after their " drop the bomb , kill em all" approach and feared by killing the Normandy too, they´d get precisely the kind of criticism they are receiving right now.
Let´s hope they plug that plothole first and give us some written epilogues as well for free, since that can be written quickly and cheaply, without hiring the whole voicecast again.
And after that, we can talk about new content dlc, like who or what is Starchild, and who did build the first reapers and the citadel and started the circle to begin with...

I´ll take Dr. Muzyka promises at face value and hope for the best.

If not , ill begin to wonder how they´re gonna screw up Dragon Age 3 at the end too; perhaps by Flemeth showing up , who says to the hero " you gotta hit one of em 3 buttons for a nice red, blue or green explosion now. And it´s gonna kill all of em Darkspawn but half of Thedas as well. Have a nice day".

[jlb524]

"I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it and tell us what you think."

Okay...I finished the game twice now with two different endings.

Good things

-- Really enjoyed the game up until the Earth bit. I really like the improvements with the combat system, especially regarding biotic combos.

-- Characters in the game were typically well written, especially Liara, Garrus, and Javik

Bad things

-- The end...aaaaargh. There's so much about StarChild's explanation that makes no sense (like, if synthesis is the best approach and the next step in evolution, why didn't the ones who created the Starchild/Reapers go with that instead of making the Reapers?). Shepard totally buys it without question, though. This is the most important decision in the series and Shepard can't ask for further explanation? I remember making a decision in ME1 in regards to the fate of the rachni queen on Noveria. Shepard had the option to ask her questions and felt more engaged.

-- The endings are too similar. When picking 'Destroy', why not show the consequences involving A.I.? Show the geth dying...show EDI dying. When picking 'Synthesis', show people transforming into half-AI green glowy people. The endings were the same minus different colors and the Reapers collapsing in the Destroy ending.

-- Then there's the crazy "Why is the Normandy leaving Sol?" or "Why is Character X who was with me on Earth on the Normandy?" or "The Citadel StarChild invalidates the entire ME1 plot" issues.

[MattSpencer]

Lparsons7641 wrote...

We get it, the gaming "journalists" that get paid for good reviews love it. We know. Enough. That doesn't mean the rest of us are wrong. Or stupid. Just because I don't have a blog.

If pointing to IGN review score is your first instinct you've lost it.

Well put. It seems like he values the opinion of reveiwers like IGN and Gamespot more than us; Their loyal fans. We complain only because we have the right to as buyers.

[ZtalkerRM]

First off, I deeply respect(ed) Bioware. I've seen them pull off things that were impossible. A eastern-themed western RPG (Jade Empre)? Check. A 2010 variant of a 90's hardcore game (Dragon Age)? Check. Upto this game, every Bioware game was a certain purchase for me. Everything Bioware breathes quality and still does.

The way I look at this issue is quite simple though. Imagine the next situation:
I ask a random painter from the yellow pages to make a family portrait of my own family. I ask him to be as accurate as possible, so it can hang above the fireplace. After a few weeks/months, he comes back with a cubist (picasso) representation of my family.
He painted my family. He did it within the time limit. The painting is good, he's apparently a cubist expert!
However, it's not what I wanted, what I expected and what paid him for in advance.

He should've known what I wanted (we invited him over to select good photo's to work with, one he could use as a reference for painting). He could have known it too, since another 'normal' portrait of my grandparents hangs in the living room too.

That's Mass Effect 3: It's the greatest in it's genre for sure. There is no rpg/shooter that can match it. However, with the current ending, it's a complete break from what the buyers expected. It's not ugly, it's just not...it.

[Shadeling]

harrier25699 wrote...

catofnine wrote...

Dear Dr. Muzyka,

Thank you for your measured and well articulated response.

However, I don't recommend cloaking the game behind professional reviewers.  It only gives us rabies.  They're not your customers, we are.

Given the last couple offerings (DA2, ME3) by your studio it seems to me that you and team have forgotten who your audiences are and what makes them tick.  Sure we may enjoy the visuals, character and plot arcs, and the gameplay of games, but at the end of the day what colors some of our perceptions of a game is the game's emotional tone at the end. The place for artsy ending and "lots of speculation for everybody" belongs in the second act, not the final act.  

A lot us are adults who can handle the loss of a beloved protagonist.  However, bittersweet artsy ending or no, your players needed to walk away from the game and trilogy with the feeling of "FK YEAH, WE TOTALLY ROCKED THIS."  With the ending as is, Hudson and Co. took that feeling right out of the game and away from your fans.  They need to put it back if there's any hope of salvaging this title.  And if all this talk of emotional tone is completely foreign to them, then sorry, I believe they're in the wrong line of work.   Road to hell is paved with good intentions, and they really ripped the hearts out of a lot of fans on this one.  

If there's anything I would suggest it would be that when you look over what Hudson and co have on table in terms of dlc etc, ask them "if you were a gamer, would you be thrilled out of your gourd to experience this?"  Would it make your players go: "WOW THAT WAS INSANELY AWESOME" yes, in big screaming caps even.   If I were Bioware right now, I'd make sure that any DLC that's being shipped is substantive and so mindblowingly awesome that for your fans ordinary superlatives just won't do, they gotta make up new ones to describe the content.

Thank you for your time.  Best of luck to you.

Wow, really well put.  So glad you posted this

Completely agree.

[Squallypo]

Tazzmission wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

Dr ray was trying to indoctrinate us, HOLD THE LINE

seriously grow up dude


can you ever be happy?


the man responded and basicly said the devs are gona fix the situation

quit spamming the hold the line crap

FACTS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bunch of words

no mean to be rude but thats how the world works in reality.

btw Thank you for your feedback.

[Artemis_Entrari]

I appreciate Dr. Muzyka's statement, and some of what he said inspires me with a bit of confidence (but I'm still more of a "show, don't tell" person), but I still think he's missing the entire point behind the outrage over the ending.

The majority of fans are upset because our choices didn't matter. We were lead to believe that our choices through the series would determine the ending we got. Instead, no matter what choices you made, you got the option of picking A, B, or C, and all three took nothing we did into consideration.

The other stuff, like closure, like "happy ending", all that stuff is important. But it's secondary to the fact that the ending was a failure because it completely ignored the mantra of the entire series; that the player's choices matter.

[Freely]

If I had thinner skin, I might start getting offended by some of Bioware's comments.

Since when was being a loyal fan like having leprosy? I feel that their comments imply fans are sub-par to casual gamers and paid reviewers. "Casual gamers & reviewers love it, but "our" fans aren't happy... again." Feels like fans are a burden.

I'm not vocal with my opinions. While I read the forums a lot I don't post often at all, so I hope this speaks volumes for my feelings.

To me, the ME trilogy is like eating a packet of chocolate digestive biscuits only to find the last one is a plain old ******. While I might have expected a ****** if it had been a packet of crackers, it happened to be a ****** in my favourite type of biscuit. Even after enjoying the rest of the packet, I'm left with a bland and unfulfilling taste in my mouth.

[Arkitekt]

I find Forbes' article very very good on this:

But the plethora of positive professional reviews are less helpful by far than much of the ‘destructive’ commentary BioWare faces. Truth rarely lies in what we want to hear. Dozens of fawning reviewers tripping over one another to offer up their perfect scores hardly encourage BioWare to improve. “Look how exceptional our game is! We appreciate your concern and we are listening, but by the way did you notice all these perfect scores we just received? You’re delusional, but we care.”

(...)

As far as Muzyka’s apology goes: It’s better than nothing, but any apology with a “but” at the end should be taken with a hefty spoonful of sea salt. After all, when has “I’m sorry, honey, but…” ever worked?

http://www.forbes.co...ending-sort-of/

[cmj428]

catofnine wrote...

Dear Dr. Muzyka,

Thank you for your measured and well articulated response.

However, I don't recommend cloaking the game behind professional reviewers.  It only gives us rabies.  They're not your customers, we are.

I'm showing a partial quote of what catofnine wrote but this part was very funny and yet so true.

[Squallypo]

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

I appreciate Dr. Muzyka's statement, and some of what he said inspires me with a bit of confidence (but I'm still more of a "show, don't tell" person), but I still think he's missing the entire point behind the outrage over the ending.

The majority of fans are upset because our choices didn't matter. We were lead to believe that our choices through the series would determine the ending we got. Instead, no matter what choices you made, you got the option of picking A, B, or C, and all three took nothing we did into consideration.

The other stuff, like closure, like "happy ending", all that stuff is important. But it's secondary to the fact that the ending was a failure because it completely ignored the mantra of the entire series; that the player's choices matter.

yup exactly this. 

[Getorex]

I remain ever ready to re-purchase my returned ME3 game when/if the actual response from Bioware is satisfactory. I will be keeping my eye on the forums and elsewhere to see when/if this occurs.

Until then...playing something else entirely.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Forbes, continuing to be the number one authority on the gaming industry. Who knew?

[Devian]

I don't understand why Bioware is so proud of the professional critics that rate ME3 as a good game, if Bioware would pay me a 1000£ I would also tell everybody the game rocks like hell and give it a 90/100 score... Why would we believe those idiots that don't even play the game to the end, or are paid for advertising space on their website/blog or magazine? Gamers/users have disagreed with professional critics more then I can remember, so are "professional" review scores tainted? Yes, they are. There really is no other way to put it than simply saying that yes, what you read has been diluted and tainted in just about every possible way.

Most game developer and publisher will deny this, they can deny all they will but most of these big media sites, newspapers and magazines fear what support they will lose if they trash on a AAA title or product. Even if there is a negative review, you’ll notice how it’s not overly negative or the score won’t reflect the negative tone. It’s still offer some fancy way to make it appear positive. This spans across game reviews/scores. Every professional reviewer has a fear of “what will they say if I **** on this game” when they review something. If they tell you that they don’t, then they’re not being honest. When a company takes interest in your publication and they throw support your way, it’s just natural to develop some kind of mutual ball grabbing if you will.

It’s the nature of the beast although everyone envolved will deny it. PR departments from every major developer / publisher do this all the time, they give "support" if a newspaper, magazine or website gives them good reviews. These reviews are robotic and churned out because everyone wants to be first and no one wants to buck the trend. Deals are often made beforehand to give certain sites an exclusive review window so that their review is the first one out. These reviews come out and they all read like a carbon copy of each other. In fact, if you simply printed these reviews out with no identifying author or site you would be hard pressed to identify who wrote them.

Most of the heavily marketed franchises release with a glowing review. You may say well they’re just that good so what’s the problem? Well the problem is that sometimes they’re not that good but they’re scored as such anyway. Do you know how they cover their asses on this? Many of them give “second opinions”. They do this so they can prevent the wrath of their fans. So they release the partner review first (the review to please the support) and then not even a day after sometimes, they’ll come back with the second opinion. The second opinion is usually the truth and what they really think of the game. They can’t **** on it with the partner review because that review is for quote worthy reference. What’s that? It’s when the support company goes back to pick cool little phrases from the review to use in marketing...

This is what Bioware is doing with ME3,

Modifié par Devian, 21 mars 2012 - 05:48 .