2054 réponses à ce sujet

[BigZ7337]

I'm sorry, but I find it impossible to believe that the fan response to the ending has been a complete surprise to Bioware. Did they not do any consumer testing of the game? Further, even if they like their ending of the game in theory or writing, Bioware has to admit that their delivery is incredibly flawed. Not only did they refuse to give us any actual gameplay climax to the game (other than Maurader Shields), but they effectively eliminated player choice that actually meant anything. The ending was just filled with plot holes, inconsistencies, unanswered questions, and the awkward introduction to a brand new character/villian/god immediately before the ending, along with so many other problems that you can find listed elsewhere. It speaks volumes when the end of a video game is so poorly done that a theory where everything was just a dream (a horrible plot device) makes much more sense than the actual ending. It's even more telling if the Indocrination Theory wasn't intened by Bioware, yet so many parts of the ending actually point to it.

Overall, this new statement is the same thing (reworded) that Bioware has been spouting since the hacked game demo Microsoft accidentially released. Here's what I got out of this statement: "We love the ending. Games are art. Art shouldn't be changed. All of the critics love our game. Fans are passionate. We'll take in critique and get back to you. If you're a good gamer and stop complaining we might slightly alter the end. Make sure to buy our stuff and get other people to play the game even if you hate the ending. We are listening."  :/

[ThomasDW]

the developers are so busy right now patting each other on the back to have the time to notice that their costumers are unhappy and disappointed.

[ragnorok87]

Adynata wrote...

I find it hard to believe that Bioware considers this their best game. It was short, consisted mostly of cutscenes, had little character development beyond the previous ME games, and had redundant quests that lacked creativity. I'm not going to go into the ending, since most of us agree what the problem with that is. I would gladly give up multiplayer if it meant having a better single player game.

ME3 seemed rushed to me as well, but more importantly I get this sense that we had to sacrifice a lot of content/development for other things, like varied dialogue strands that we may never see or the MP stuff. Artistry is just not on the map here. I teach university literature classes and all I do is analyze artistry everyday (okay 3 days a week, but still). The overall story arch of ME3 leaves more questions than answers. By the end of the "story" the protagonist is no longer consistent (lack of decision choices), the antagonist changes (reapers aren't bad guys, but star child is??), and the crisis--which we all thought would be this huge epic battle--turns out to be a "Let's Make a Deal"-esque decision followed by a sudden conclusion and no denouement. In other words, the structure of the story changes so dramatically that it feels as if we're suddenly playing a completely different game.

Better artistry would have resulted in stronger character development suggesting that the protagonist might be willing to entertain an idea like that proposed by the end antagonist and more forshadowing that could convey the impending sacrifice or change of antagonist.

i totally agree with your statements

[Linkforlife]

I would love to know when the face import thing is getting fixed. I would love to play ME3 with the Shepard that I made back in ME1 rather than have to try and piece him/her together again or use the default Shepard (even if default FemShep's hair becomes transparent in Grunt's old room).

[grumpyboobyhead]

Good god, all I got from that entire speech is april's gonna deliver the FYI's we're supposed to get on what may be epilogue DLCs... Pfft probably demanding payment at gunpoint for all endings that should be in the game.
I don't understand what's so difficult of tweaking the endings we've already got, I'd be able to say: "hey it's a great trilogy! I love this game." (Check youtube for fanmade endings BTW for examples)
Now all I'm going to do is say: "what kind've sick joke is this, I waited 9 extra months only to be cheated out of a gratifying ending to a series that should've ended my Shep's storyline?!?"
You know I took a week off to play that game so that it wouldn't hinder my work ethic and proffesionality, now my head hurts and nobody can give me a clear answer on what happened.
Now I feel like taking a week off just to recover but I can't because I don't earn that much either,
all I've got is the indoctrination theory which suggests... They ripped me off...
I didn't do anything wrong other than just pay an extra buck for my collector's edition only to find out that the game's basicly broken and that they're twisting my arm for extra money, that scares me.

I mean it, one of these days (Game) companies are going to become their own criminal syndicate bullying and spying on us and cheating their way out of debt through our hard earned cash...

Made an edit on what kind've companies:unsure:

Modifié par grumpyboobyhead, 21 mars 2012 - 07:18 .

[admcmei]

Ronin1325 wrote...

morrie23 wrote...

Don't set your hopes too high folks:

See, this is not acceptable. More explanation will not make these endings better. If anything we'll just understand more of how bad they are.

Agreed. I guess making additional options would be too much work and put them behind on their schedule for new DLCs, so they'd really have to be desperate do get to that. I really hope that least they fix those stupid RGB cinematics and the idiotic Normandy crash.

[Arkitekt]

Nepp wrote...

im commander shep wrote...

Wow, Maybe bioware are listening.

Shephard Out

They don't listen. They only react to threats to their monetary stream, and reply with vaugeness and PR statements giving easily deceived fans the illusion of listening to their concerns.

Remember, they scrapped whatever ending they did in december with the A,B,C endings we got. Huge plot holes making no sense to the theme of the entire ME series. They said our choices in the series will effect the outcome. It didn't, we got that bullsh**t emotionless starchild crap.

According to ahhhh inside *rumours*, the finale was written by Hudson and Walters themselves deprived of any group feedback. I am not going to outright disagree with your cynicism here, but I also believe this group is comprised of incredible human beings and not only by corporate jackets. They have to be, since you do see their humanity coming out on every amazing part of the rest of the game. To pretend these things never existed just because the last 5 minutes are lackluster is not fair, IMHO. To say these people are just moneybots that will always reply in a chinese-room kinda way, PR'ing their way out of the "financial" mess they are in, is just completely untrue.

What I think is that the PR people are basically in command right now on what message must go through, how and when. But the people behind these curtains of defense mechanisms, are not inhuman. I don't believe so.

[ragnorok87]

BigZ7337 wrote...

I'm sorry, but I find it impossible to believe that the fan response to the ending has been a complete surprise to Bioware. Did they not do any consumer testing of the game? Further, even if they like their ending of the game in theory or writing, Bioware has to admit that their delivery is incredibly flawed. Not only did they refuse to give us any actual gameplay climax to the game (other than Maurader Shields), but they effectively eliminated player choice that actually meant anything. The ending was just filled with plot holes, inconsistencies, unanswered questions, and the awkward introduction to a brand new character/villian/god immediately before the ending, along with so many other problems that you can find listed elsewhere. It speaks volumes when the end of a video game is so poorly done that a theory where everything was just a dream (a horrible plot device) makes much more sense than the actual ending. It's even more telling if the Indocrination Theory wasn't intened by Bioware, yet so many parts of the ending actually point to it.

Overall, this new statement is the same thing (reworded) that Bioware has been spouting since the hacked game demo Microsoft accidentially released. Here's what I got out of this statement: "We love the ending. Games are art. Art shouldn't be changed. All of the critics love our game. Fans are passionate. We'll take in critique and get back to you. If you're a good gamer and stop complaining we might slightly alter the end. Make sure to buy our stuff and get other people to play the game even if you hate the ending. We are listening."  :/

well i agree but bioware isnt bioware any longer. they have been fighting INDOCTRINATION by ea for quite some time. which allowed them to make a great mass effect 2 game. however while in the porcess of me3 they were completely taken over. ea and bioware are now completely merged. sythesized if you will. they are one being whom stands for causing pain, misery and suffering to all.

[BCMakoto]

After taking some serious moments to think about my last post, I have still some things to add.

1.) "Games are Art and "Artistic integrity".".

Many of us said it before, but: Artistic integrity only goes that far. If I am comissioned to draw a picture, may it be Manga or Colored Anime, and the person it is for does not like it, I have to redo it. That is the harsh reality. Most people those days say: "Hm, well. Not perfect, but good.". But that is only a sentence to voice displeasure while beeing polite. In no way it reflects anything valuable.

If a game is art, then you must listen to your customers. I am sorry to be rude here, but if 90% of the people say: "It is bad, make a new one.". Well, then I would consider doing so. We cannot force you to do anything, but "Artistic integrity" will not pay your bills. In the end, you are producing games for your fans and the people who buy it. If those loose faith in you right now...will they put any money into your projects?

Yes, be proud of what you have accomplished. Writing one of the best Sci-fi trilogys out there. Now end it properly. No plot-holes, no Deus ex Machina, no Starchild. Give us what we always had in Mass Effect I and II: An epic end, where we would always love to get back to. This is not in any way what we got now, even if some people disagree.

Give us this feeling of the first games. Even now, I remember my first end from Mass Effect I. Evening, Tuesday. Was done at 9pm. I emmediatly wanted to see "another" end, it motivated me to kill the Council. And then, time later, I had to go to school. Forgot about time. What I think now is: "Why play again? Some Star-child will tell me what to do, and it will only affect the color in the end.". Is that what you call "The last point on a piece of art"?

2.) "The overall theme of sacrifice"

I said it many times, and I will say it once again: Mass Effect cannot end, even if Shepard lives, without the theme of sacrifice beeing voiced. We have assembled hammer and sword, and trough what? Sacrifice. Will we ever forget how Mordin Solus sacrificed himself to save the Krogans, to give them a second chance? Will we ever forget how Thane died at our side, while we were praying for his (Or our) peace? Will we forget Legions attempt to transmit the Code to the Geth, sacrificing his own intelect?

Will we forget all those smaller people who have fallen to unite everyone? The son of the Primarch, Nihlus at the beginning, Kaidan Alenko/Ashley Williams. Even if Shepard lives, stands to his promise with two little blue children and Liara... sacrifice will always be there. I was so emotionaly hit by Mordins and Thanes death that I was actually ready to tear Harbinger to pieces with my biotics. For everything he did, for every single life the Reapers eradicated over the past billion years.

Give us good endings, but remind us in them what we lost on the way. What our friends got.

3.) "In a Story like this, the hero has to die."

That was quoted by some fans of the ending. Even if they are the minority, they are out there. That Shepard has to die...is simply wrong. In a game of choices, make it possible for Shepard to survive. Talking about sacrifice: Is it a sacrifice to be forced into a worthy action?

There can be endings where Shepard dies a heroic death. For example: War assets less then 3000. The Sword has no way of defeating the Reapers. Shepard is the person at choice. He has the choice: "Run away with his love interest and try to flee the inevitable, or to actually pull of the Paragon action.". Make him turn around, watch the stars. Make him think... of all we had, of all we lost...of all he will save. Then he can turn around and sprint into every beam there is. This would be a sacrifice. If he would sacrifice himself so everyone could be happy. But not for some starchild. Yes, cheesy, but people like such things. We get enough bad news in real-life (I decently point to france). Make us able to get a happy one here if we really try.

But also give us an ending where Shepard emerges out of the rubble, Garrus helping him up, laughing. "We did it Shepard." and Shepard giving one of his famous answers, like: "Yes Garrus. Didn't notice the best Sniper on the Citadel however...was he taking a break?". Show us the Sword, winning over the Reapers.

Or give us a really bad ending. Let an unknown alien race pick up the message in the stars. Let it count what we always had in Mass Effect: Choice. And reflect on them.

4.) "Give us what we were promised to get."

Make every decision in the game count. Give us 16 different TV's in a room. We turn on one, see a bad ending, turn him off and shout: "Wrong channel!". Give us a new ending every time we play trough the game. Well, that is not possible, but give us a different one. Make us play, with new choices, and then when charging in London, let us think: "What will I get now?". Make it a surprise, like a child opening a present at christmas.

5.) "Show us the impact. Make reuniting with our ex-squadmates memorable."

What we build up in the last games isn't easy to explain. We came to care for our squadmates, helping them with the most desperate missions and their deepest wishes (For example Morinth for Samara) bound them together like nothing else. If Hammer is an army, all of them together are something more. They are unstopable. In the end, show us that friendship. For example: As you proceed trough the city, you get a comm from Samara, stating that she has trouble. Make her say something like: "Shepard. After all we have done together...it was an honor serving with you.". Then she disconnects and you have the chance to get to her if you do it right.

And if you reach her in time, make Shepard blast his way trough Husks, reaching her, giving us a little dialog, along the lines: "Oh no! You do not die on me now Samara!". If this could change for the "Romance" option in Mass Effect II has to be seen.

Or make Shepards who were close with Thane (Maybe even romanced him) hear his voice while shooting Reapers, quoting some of his famous lines like: "A prayer...for the wicked.". Make Shepard regain his strenght.

It is a lot of work. But I know: You could do it, Bioware. You sure could. Give us the emotion of our squad...of this friendship that shakes every odd. Hell, I would write them myself if I had to if you give us this emotional attachment in words.

6.) "Listen to us...carefully."

Please, do not make the mistake to take our comments as: "We only want explanation". No, we want what we were promised. We want emotion, we want a fitting ending. We do not want a Star-child, a Deus Ex machina, the unexplainable logic of our squad defecting, of the reasons behind the Reapers.

We do not want to destroy your art...we want to change it for better. Do not read trough half of our post and assume. Take every word into consideration, and make them count. Give us what you promised us, what we want as an ending to the best Sci-Fi trilogy ever. To OUR Story, to our memories.

I do not know if this will reach Dr. Muzyka, or if anyone thinks the same. Only wanted to share my other thoughts on how the endings could improve. Those are some serious thoughts that I get when reading the letter. Do not explain, consider the things above. If necessary I can also write it as a response to the feedback thread... if people believe it sounds good.

[Faridle]

The paranoid cynical bastard in me is telling me this is an ruse or an bid to buy more time and its so vague that it seems to promise something getting our hopes up but not spesifying. This worse then negotiation atleast more vague, we have given our views on the case and asked about their future actions and they continue to be more slippery then an swiss banker.

And this pretensious art defend seems to be harder lodged then an stick up an Turians behind

"I have an bad feeling about this"

Modifié par Faridle, 21 mars 2012 - 07:23 .

[Peranor]

Do they need to change the current endings? No, they can just ADD do them. ADD more possible endings. ADD more conclusive explanations.
I've never asked BW To delete the current endings and replace them with a picture of my little ponies eating rainbow cake.
If they just add aditional content that adds to the current endings everyone is happy. That way those who want the space magic mumbo-jumbo ending can still have their space magic mumbo-jumbo ending.
And those who do not want it can choose another route that maybe give another ending with more explanation and less destruction of the universe.

[Arkitekt]

ThomasDW wrote...

the developers are so busy right now patting each other on the back to have the time to notice that their costumers are unhappy and disappointed.

I reaaaaaally doubt that that's the only thing they are doing. I'm guessing they are working extremely hard at the next DLC. And perhaps they are having doubts on how well it is going to be received. 95% of them however are not at the helm, remember that. And I don't exactly envy the guys at the helm who are really pondering the next moves. Which can be fatal to their careers.

[Chatboy 91]

I’ve been a bit silent these past few days, mostly just distracting myself from this mess while catching the occasional bit of news. But then I saw the new blog post, and I had to respond.

First of all, stop grasping at your artistic integrity BioWare. It isn’t there anymore, for a few reasons I will outline. There are a few issues surrounding this ending, but one of the most glaring is the poor construction of it. The community has pointed out a multitude of plot holes, and logical fallacies that thus far, have been completely ignored. The team may be “poring over everything they can find about reactions to the game…” but thus far, we have not received any explanation, or recognition for these issues. From an artistic stand point, I think it’s safe to say any proper writer would level a very harsh critique on this ending; especially considering the previous promises and statements that were issued leading up to release day.

Secondly, taking a quick read over the article I see a certain phrase being thrown around: “constructive criticism”. I also noticed the phrase: “…become destructive rather than constructive”. At this point, I would say your artistic integrity, has been completely thrown out the window. All great artists, especially in the medium of video games, and digital art in general, understand and accept all forms of criticism. There is no distinction between, “constructive” and “destructive” criticism. I know how tempting it is to fall into this trap. As a 3D artist myself, I’ve used the same defense before, much to my amateur chagrin. However, you cannot throw out a mountain of criticism simply because it isn’t “constructive” enough. That is not being a proper artist in this medium. I fully understand that “flaming” should be completely intolerable. However, in my experience of this movement, I have seen little to no personal attacks, only criticism that by definition is constructive.

I don’t know what your plans are BioWare. As a huge fan of the Mass Effect series, and your work in general, I hope you can come to some sort of understanding. While gaming critics may be lauding Mass Effect 3 as one of the greatest games of all time, as you stated, “…loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded…” While proper reviews from gaming critics are all fine and dandy, at the end of the day, the biggest opinion that matters is not the opinion offered by a critic who sped through the game to get a review out. Your loyal fans are the ones who should be determining your “net pride”.

In the meantime, I’ll just keep holding the line with my fellow comrades.

[The Big Palooka]

morrie23 wrote...

Don't set your hopes too high folks:

Absolutely unacceptable.

[-Skorpious-]

morrie23 wrote...

Don't set your hopes too high folks:

Necessarily being the key word. Let Bioware know what we want. Let them know that we will NOT pay for a 'retake Omega' type DLC that explains a fraction of the ending, but do so POLITELY. 

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 21 mars 2012 - 07:20 .

[WizenSlinky0]

Jsxdf wrote...

We do need to chill out with the destructive & insulting comments/feedback. Bioware does not deserve the insane crap some people are saying and doing to them. They have listened to their fans on many issues and gave us alot of what we wanted in Mass Effect.

Thank you Bioware for everything you guys have done for us, making great games, and just generally being awesome. I hope to see and play more of your games in the future, especially Mass Effect.

Btw, to those demanding they alter/remove content, they don't have to alter or remove anything. There is something called DLC that can easily address our concerns. Also, don't expect them to come out and say exactly what they are doing. That would basically be spoilers.

Of course people need to lay off the destructive and insulting messages. That's pretty much a given. Not only do they not deserve it but even if they did it would not be acceptable to give it. Unfortunately, when people get that worked up there's really nothing you can say to them to stop it. They just burn out naturally and calm down. Usually.

People would appreciate to know how extensive of a solution they are considering. Whether it will just explain things, whether it will alter things, or whether it will be an entirely new branch(s). You don't have to be vague to get a point across. You just have to be honest with what you *can* share and don't even try sharing things you can't get into any details on.

[Pcmag1]

Dear Ray
My name is Michal and I am from Czech Republic. I have been a longtime supporter of Bioware. I have purchased majority of games your company developed and always found it to be some of the greatest games. I am glad that your target market group The Journalists were so happy with the game. I am also thrilled that you maintained your artistic integrity, and I am sure the Nobel prize committee will contact you about their literature prize any day now.

I have never been so insulted by a company representative in my life.

I hope the number in you excel sheets will stay positive. And I wish you all the best in the future.

I know it means nothing to you. But you have just lost me as a fan and as a customer.

[mulder1199]

show me, don't tell me.....

[Avatar Mea]

I must admit, I've been a loyal fan since the first Mass Effect... and like so many was extremely disappointed with the ending of ME3. BUT, what most don't realize is that by ranting in a disrespectful way is going to get us no where. I've read a lot of postings on this issue; and most players are being disrespectful (in their minds they have that right) - BUT, as stated so many times (and for most it goes in one ear an out the other) - this must be done in a respectful way. Bioware have finely openly addressed (in some way) this issue; and I believe they will fully address this that will both please the fans and themselves as well. Just because I feel (like so many others) that Bioware let me down with the endings of ME3 the game itself was/is outstanding. I refuse to completely write off Bioware for this and will continue to have faith in them to make this right. This may not be the right forum to post in - but I did anyway.

[Catsith]

Please don't alter the ending, Bioware. As much as it was disappointing, I will lose all respect for Bioware if they change the endings. I just want closure now, that's all. This is how Bioware chose to end the series, and we have to live with that. But some "closure" DLC would be good.

[StrikeSaber47]

Going to decide once the content is released. If their "fix" isn't satisfying then I am jumping ship. However, I am giving them a chance to see how well their "fix" is going to address what aspects of my disappointment to the endings.

[Kidd]

I have gained some manner of hope now. I'm not 100% sure this will make me a happy bunny - how could I be - but I will definitely give this a go. I've never thought the idea behind the endings is impossible to do well, it's just that the way they happened was bad. If they are extended, perhaps the endings will even turn into great endings instead of horrible ones.

Time will tell =)

EDIT: Just please, no space magic in our hard sci-fi =)

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 21 mars 2012 - 07:23 .

[Chugster]

Kersca wrote...

You lose any claim to artistic integrity when the final thing we see in the game is an ad for DLC.

you see, this is exactly why they dont say much....someone always moans about what is said...no matter what is said

[Dariansarr]

Are the people who dislike the ending really a minority or a small portion of the people who played the games

[GoddessLunatic]

I have the greatest respect for the Mass Effect team and Mass Effect 3 is indeed the greatest game ever so far. But that's exactly why the ending doesn't do it justice. Look, I see where you're coming from and I can understand what you were trying to do with the ending we got and I think it's perfectly ok to have a bittersweet/tragic option. But we should have the possibility to have a happy ending if we're so inclined. Seriously, it doesn't have to be that hard. Just explain/flesh out the current ending a bit more and provide a well made DLC for a happy ending. That way, the people who were happy with the way it ended are satisfied and the people who wanted a happy ending can buy it if they want to. Everybody understands that a well made DLC takes time and money. Win-win situation.