2054 réponses à ce sujet

[WaterWar]

Good to hear some news form Bioware. Looking forward to see what the new content to be discussed in April might be.

Also, as he points out: It is important to stay constructive with our critism and not just attack Bioware directly. Especially not their employees as they don't deserve the bashing some people are giving them. They have made one hell of a job on the ME-series, the third included (until the last 30-ish minutes).

Hold the line (with constructive critism).

[Kavadas]

Honestly, until they admit how ****ing stupid their Star Child ending is and how meaningless our choices were I simply won't care what Casey, Ray, or anyone from Electronic Arts has to say.

The ending needs be simply rewritten from the point where Shepard passes out onboard the crucible and it Electronic Arts need to patch it in completely free.

Anything else is unacceptable.

Modifié par Kavadas, 21 mars 2012 - 07:45 .

[WizenSlinky0]

Catsith wrote...

Please don't alter the ending, Bioware. As much as it was disappointing, I will lose all respect for Bioware if they change the endings. I just want closure now, that's all. This is how Bioware chose to end the series, and we have to live with that. But some "closure" DLC would be good.

Eh, my best suggestion would be to "rework" the endings without changing their core. Outright throwing away the ending we got seems unlikely and a bit too late.

[Naughty Bear]

L00p wrote...

llandwynwyn wrote...

People are being too trusting, really, he made no promise of a fix for the endings.

Bioware is walking on thin ice here, so I hope it is, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get news of Aria's dlc in April.

They are not doing any walking on ice, or any other action.

It's like they're sitting on an expensive office chair on the ice, doing nothing but sprouting an occasional sound of jibberish, while the ice is cracking dangerously beneath them.

Your comment reminded me of those aliens from Mars Attacks when they speak.

[Logiwonk]

Mr. Muzyka,

I appreciate your communication with fans on this topic. Emotions are running high still for a number of us players, as I'm sure they are for the Bioware staff, who made a great game that many loyal fans had a hard time feeling good about because of the ending.

I think more than anything right now fans want to understand. Talk to us. Why did the writing/management/etc. team decide to end ME3 the way they did? How did the playtesters respond? How does the creative team feel about some of the objections raised against the ending, such as the seeming lack of meaningful choice in the ending? Why was it decided to not have an ending where the Relays would still exist? What were your intentions with the strange Normandy Flight Scene that many found confusing? Why did the team feel that players would be satisfied with an ending where we didn't find out what happened to most of our crew?

Most of us, we love Bioware games. We just want to understand where you guys were coming from. Talk to us.

[ragnorok87]

V0RP4L wrote...

 I dislike this reply to the community. How can they not just admit the ending is horrible, there are many links to articles and videos that explain each plot hole and why it is so bad. BW should just admit they made a mistake wether it was rushing the end or scraping the original script. Not only that but apologize for the false claims of "your decisions matter at the end" pre-launch.
Best Vids/Articles:




http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/
http://www.forbes.co...ffect-3-ending/

well said. those video links are great and tell alot why the endings suck. the company is braindead. how can they not think the endings sucked. well i may have an answer. bioware has been fighting indoctrination from ea. while making me3 they were overcame. they are now completely merged with ea and they have become a single being which only wishes to hurt destroy break hearts and cause pain,misery and suffering.

[omegasama]

I still find it amazing that they think people would want pre-ending DLCs. What's the point if it all end the same way? We are still forced into something that I know that my Shepard would never agree to.

The game is great up to the point that Shepard gets blasted by Harbinger, and the end ruins not only ME3 but all three games for me. What point is there to replay them when all I will ever get is "pick your fave colour"?

Bioware was my fave game company... I could even deal with DA2... but this, no. And the way they try to make us feel bad for their **** up... no. I am sorry, but you guys need to listen to us this time. We are not at fault here, you are, and I think it is time you realized that.

[Peranor]

LPKerberos wrote...

After taking some serious moments to think about my last post, I have still some things to add.

1.) "Games are Art and "Artistic integrity".".

Many of us said it before, but: Artistic integrity only goes that far. If I am comissioned to draw a picture, may it be Manga or Colored Anime, and the person it is for does not like it, I have to redo it. That is the harsh reality. Most people those days say: "Hm, well. Not perfect, but good.". But that is only a sentence to voice displeasure while beeing polite. In no way it reflects anything valuable.

If a game is art, then you must listen to your customers. I am sorry to be rude here, but if 90% of the people say: "It is bad, make a new one.". Well, then I would consider doing so. We cannot force you to do anything, but "Artistic integrity" will not pay your bills. In the end, you are producing games for your fans and the people who buy it. If those loose faith in you right now...will they put any money into your projects?

Yes, be proud of what you have accomplished. Writing one of the best Sci-fi trilogys out there. Now end it properly. No plot-holes, no Deus ex Machina, no Starchild. Give us what we always had in Mass Effect I and II: An epic end, where we would always love to get back to. This is not in any way what we got now, even if some people disagree.

Give us this feeling of the first games. Even now, I remember my first end from Mass Effect I. Evening, Tuesday. Was done at 9pm. I emmediatly wanted to see "another" end, it motivated me to kill the Council. And then, time later, I had to go to school. Forgot about time. What I think now is: "Why play again? Some Star-child will tell me what to do, and it will only affect the color in the end.". Is that what you call "The last point on a piece of art"?

2.) "The overall theme of sacrifice"

I said it many times, and I will say it once again: Mass Effect cannot end, even if Shepard lives, without the theme of sacrifice beeing voiced. We have assembled hammer and sword, and trough what? Sacrifice. Will we ever forget how Mordin Solus sacrificed himself to save the Krogans, to give them a second chance? Will we ever forget how Thane died at our side, while we were praying for his (Or our) peace? Will we forget Legions attempt to transmit the Code to the Geth, sacrificing his own intelect?

Will we forget all those smaller people who have fallen to unite everyone? The son of the Primarch, Nihlus at the beginning, Kaidan Alenko/Ashley Williams. Even if Shepard lives, stands to his promise with two little blue children and Liara... sacrifice will always be there. I was so emotionaly hit by Mordins and Thanes death that I was actually ready to tear Harbinger to pieces with my biotics. For everything he did, for every single life the Reapers eradicated over the past billion years.

Give us good endings, but remind us in them what we lost on the way. What our friends got.

3.) "In a Story like this, the hero has to die."

That was quoted by some fans of the ending. Even if they are the minority, they are out there. That Shepard has to die...is simply wrong. In a game of choices, make it possible for Shepard to survive. Talking about sacrifice: Is it a sacrifice to be forced into a worthy action?

There can be endings where Shepard dies a heroic death. For example: War assets less then 3000. The Sword has no way of defeating the Reapers. Shepard is the person at choice. He has the choice: "Run away with his love interest and try to flee the inevitable, or to actually pull of the Paragon action.". Make him turn around, watch the stars. Make him think... of all we had, of all we lost...of all he will save. Then he can turn around and sprint into every beam there is. This would be a sacrifice. If he would sacrifice himself so everyone could be happy. But not for some starchild. Yes, cheesy, but people like such things. We get enough bad news in real-life (I decently point to france). Make us able to get a happy one here if we really try.

But also give us an ending where Shepard emerges out of the rubble, Garrus helping him up, laughing. "We did it Shepard." and Shepard giving one of his famous answers, like: "Yes Garrus. Didn't notice the best Sniper on the Citadel however...was he taking a break?". Show us the Sword, winning over the Reapers.

Or give us a really bad ending. Let an unknown alien race pick up the message in the stars. Let it count what we always had in Mass Effect: Choice. And reflect on them.

4.) "Give us what we were promised to get."

Make every decision in the game count. Give us 16 different TV's in a room. We turn on one, see a bad ending, turn him off and shout: "Wrong channel!". Give us a new ending every time we play trough the game. Well, that is not possible, but give us a different one. Make us play, with new choices, and then when charging in London, let us think: "What will I get now?". Make it a surprise, like a child opening a present at christmas.

5.) "Show us the impact. Make reuniting with our ex-squadmates memorable."

What we build up in the last games isn't easy to explain. We came to care for our squadmates, helping them with the most desperate missions and their deepest wishes (For example Morinth for Samara) bound them together like nothing else. If Hammer is an army, all of them together are something more. They are unstopable. In the end, show us that friendship. For example: As you proceed trough the city, you get a comm from Samara, stating that she has trouble. Make her say something like: "Shepard. After all we have done together...it was an honor serving with you.". Then she disconnects and you have the chance to get to her if you do it right.

And if you reach her in time, make Shepard blast his way trough Husks, reaching her, giving us a little dialog, along the lines: "Oh no! You do not die on me now Samara!". If this could change for the "Romance" option in Mass Effect II has to be seen.

Or make Shepards who were close with Thane (Maybe even romanced him) hear his voice while shooting Reapers, quoting some of his famous lines like: "A prayer...for the wicked.". Make Shepard regain his strenght.

It is a lot of work. But I know: You could do it, Bioware. You sure could. Give us the emotion of our squad...of this friendship that shakes every odd. Hell, I would write them myself if I had to if you give us this emotional attachment in words.

6.) "Listen to us...carefully."

Please, do not make the mistake to take our comments as: "We only want explanation". No, we want what we were promised. We want emotion, we want a fitting ending. We do not want a Star-child, a Deus Ex machina, the unexplainable logic of our squad defecting, of the reasons behind the Reapers.

We do not want to destroy your art...we want to change it for better. Do not read trough half of our post and assume. Take every word into consideration, and make them count. Give us what you promised us, what we want as an ending to the best Sci-Fi trilogy ever. To OUR Story, to our memories.

I do not know if this will reach Dr. Muzyka, or if anyone thinks the same. Only wanted to share my other thoughts on how the endings could improve. Those are some serious thoughts that I get when reading the letter. Do not explain, consider the things above. If necessary I can also write it as a response to the feedback thread... if people believe it sounds good.

I have to quote this because you put my thoughts on paper. You write what i never could. I agree with you 100%. Very well written.

I don't get this "artistic integrity" argument anyway. One would think that if a game developer teams up with EA. Then "artistic integrity" can't be very high on their priority list to start with.

[Wildhide]

Mr. Ray Muzyka,

Thank you for not responding. Could you please address all the concerns listed in the feedback you and your team have been reading per your claim? This post continues to merely deflect and not actually bring up any of the problems related to the ending. One does not simply clarifying plot holes and poor writing.

[WaterWar]

ReaverT wrote...

Friends and fellow gamers:

I know we still don't have what we want, but for god sake, relax the tone. I mean, stop saying Muzika just speaks garbage and so. THEY HAVE AKCNOWLEDGED THE PROBLEM. This is our first big victory, we should be happy WHILE WE STILL HOLD THE LINE by providing them with useful feedback, just as he and Bioware are asking us.

I must say that I understand them. Yes. Even if we hate that argument, the Mass Effect trilogy IS their work, and we must respect it. However, it's not a "one-way" work of art, just as the Penny Arcade video articles have stated. Mass Effect was built first and foremost by Bioware, and its destinataries were us, the fans. Thus, the game and its universe grew up because WE LOVED IT, and we still love it. Proof is what we have been doing so far. And yes, the ending wasn't what we expected, but we are millions, and at Bioware they are just a few hundreds. So, even if they took a step in the wrong direction, we cannot make them seem the devil itself. Because that would be denying that what we got from 2 past games and the third one (until the ending) was one of the best videogame experiences no generation will experience ever. So he's right at that point. Lets leave the rest of the fans finish the game, let them know about the ending, and let them speak their opinions just as we do.

They have STARTED to answer our demand, lets indulge their petition of keep the feedback comming in a constructive way. Therefore, if you have the game but you still haven't reviewed it, do so. And don't do it like the phew fans that say the saga is ruinned by the ending. Before that ending, Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 where AWSOME GAMES... and they still are. Maybe after the ending you don't want to play through all of them again, or you can't do it in a "good mod" way because of the ending. But as they said and I believe them, THEY ARE LISTENING. We won't get a better solution to this situation by giving the game bad reviews, heck, we could even get exactly the opposite thing that we want: a more explainned and detallied ending or even a phew new ones depending on the circunstances.

Bottomline: lets keep it civil and polyte. If they ask we answer with reasoning and the intention of being constructive, if they want a review on the game, we do it thinking in the game as a whole, not just an experience shatered by a inconclussive ending that -again- they said they are going to look into it.

Thanks for reading, and remembre, keep it civil, Hold the line, for Childrens Play, for Marauder Shields, for us, for Bioware, and four our common bond: THE MASS EFFECT UNIVERSE!!!!

Very well said! Holding the line!

[Faridle]

Nepp wrote...

ragnorok87 wrote...

this is a battlefield. a great epic battle to save what could be the greatest story ever told.

So, EA/Bioware are the reapers, and the fans are the alliance?

Isnt it more like EA=Reapers Bioware=Illusive Man Fans=Allience 
just look at it Bioware rambles on art just like TIM rambles on about controlling the Reapers 

[Killjoy Cutter]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Thank you Dr. Muzyka.

I have faith that you will take your time and carefully respond to and produce content that will vindicate your companies outstanding reputation as the number one RPG development house around.

Destructive criticism should indeed be disregarded. Rage is only good in the ring or on the battlefield.

As another article stated, destructive critisism is some of the best because it pulls no punches. It also can sound less fake and condescending.

Too bad they didn't listen and understand while the game was being made, some of us have been telling them not to make exactly what ME3 turned out to be for months and months. 

[Darth Krytie]

Kersca wrote...

Chugster wrote...

Kersca wrote...

You lose any claim to artistic integrity when the final thing we see in the game is an ad for DLC.

you see, this is exactly why they dont say much....someone always moans about what is said...no matter what is said

Last time i checked they are trying/planning to sell additions to an existing product and not "here is my contribution to the art world, take it or leave it based on its own merits".   

You can't have your cake and eat it too.  Either it's art and you want to maintain your artistic integrity or it's a product made to make money and continue making money in the future.

Art has always existed to make money. Most art that lives in museums were funded by patrons. So, no, it's not an either or. Artists for centuries have been making art to make their patrons happy.

[Getorex]

laughing sherpa girl wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Cheesy happy endings can work and be powerful if done well.

Hmmmmm. Cheese. I love cheese. Some people don't like cheese so a proper host provides alternatives to cheese.

yes, but Hagus for the seventh course at an Italian Buffet??
Thats extreme even for me..

Hagus for ANY course is too extreme for me.  Different strokes and all...

[ragnorok87]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

I have some more to add.

Artistic integrity is a load of crap. There I said it. Just like someone else posted earlier. Artists in the past had to answer to their patrons. Without said patrons they wouldn't be considered the artists they are today. A Graphic Designer today has to answer to the client, to the person they work for. A client comes in and asks that a logo be made. They give you a rough sketch of what they want it to look like. You go and make that sketch a reality. Give it color, depth and life. The client returns and says, "No I don't like that color scheme and I don't like the font that you used. Change it." You don't tell your customer no. You tell them okay and come up with some different color scheme and font to get it closer to what they like. It's a back and forth.

Artistic integrity is only that you as an artist are making a work of art. Art can and will be changed several times before the final product. Even then the client may come back later on and demand changes. You as the original artist have to make those changes or lose that client's business. Why you may ask? Because they pay YOU to do the work and that money pays YOUR bills.

So the whole artistic integrity is crap. The whole "It's Art and shouldn't be changed" is a load of crap. I'm a Graphic Designer I know what artistic integrity is. Artistic integrity is having the integrity to not do a half assed job when making a logo, business card, poster, website, whatever have you. That is artistic integrity. Art changes based on the customer, based on the person asking you to make it.

Video games are not considered art. Are they a way to convey an idea? Yes. Are they subject to change? Yes. Are they set in stone? No. Are they like a painting from Van Gough or from Michael Angelo? No.

When doing a painting you cannot alter it after it's been done. It's on the canvas and cannot be changed. The only way to really change it is to redo the entire piece. Same with a statue or some dinner ware. You'd have to redo the entire piece to change it. That is the unchangeable art.

Changeable stuff is like video games. They can be changed, they can be altered. We have proof of this with Fallout 3. With DLC adding or changing the story as it evolves.

One other thing that someone else mentioned that is also a distinct lack of effort was the unveiling of Tali's face. You took a image and photoshopped it. Seriously, that's lazy. I could do better and I know I can. Heck there is a youtube video of someone who did a better job with that photoshop. Also there was someone who did a artistic rendering of what Tali looked like and her husband did a 3D rendering. This reeks of laziness on the ME team and Bioware over all.

I've never seen such disregard for standards in a long time. Now however I'm seeing it and it sickens me.

Well said. 

And really, how can they claim "artistic integrity" while selling out to EA's dictate of action games with multiplayer and watering down what was a good science fiction RPG series in the process?  How can they claim "artistic integrity" while clearly putting so very little effort into the actual art of writing the game?

i salute you heather clin e. and if i had the funds id certainly hire you to make a better ending. these endings sucked. well said. onw of the best statements and responses to this topic ive seen

[Malevolence65]

People don't want more closure or explanation added to the current ending. People want new endings.

[Grimez7]

I prefer this message way over casey hudson's, no offense casey. I deeply enjoy the games and recommend them to all of my friends(as stubborn as they are about sticking to battlefield) I even convinced some of my friends to try out the games. Thank you BW for creating an amazing trilogy, I loved every moment of it(for the most part) but please do your best to address the community concerns with the endings. Looking forward to April.

[TomekN86]

Unfortunately it is another statement, that highlights the fact that Bioware does not listen to their fans/read their opinions (at least not those genuinely concerned for the future of Mass Effect franchise): there is no need to "say goodbye to our stories", or "continue our journey", there is a need for a logical, complex epilogue that does not contradicts the games plot, lore. An epilogue that not only reflects our decisions throughout the trilogy but aslo provides closure and hope for the universe.

[AxisEvolve]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Today we have a message from BioWare Co-Founder Ray Muzyka to Mass Effect players.

Please use this thread for your comment's on Ray's blog.

Not the great news many were expecting. But I'd still say this is good news. I respect the effort to work towards a compromise. Doing nothing would be a huge mistake, and this is something. Thanks.

[Barsi]

Its good to have some news, but in my opinion, maintaining "artistic integrity" will make any alterations to the ending invalid.

To fix it (in my opinion), embrace the indocrination theory, create an actual ending that continues from that, and use all the feedback to make everything right this time. All we want is closure, no plotholes, and a large gamma of alterations the ending can suffer to implement our choices. Possibility of a happy ending isnt a must, but would please everyone even more, even if its nigh impossible to achieve.

You wont lose anything you've done for the ending we have now, will just give it some actual meaning and use. Win-Win.

[admcmei]

Faridle wrote...

Nepp wrote...

ragnorok87 wrote...

this is a battlefield. a great epic battle to save what could be the greatest story ever told.

So, EA/Bioware are the reapers, and the fans are the alliance?

Isnt it more like EA=Reapers Bioware=Illusive Man Fans=Allience 
just look at it Bioware rambles on art just like TIM rambles on about controlling the Reapers 

I laughed, that is actually brilliant.

[camoboy_19]

To me, It just seems like Bioware is missing the point; Yes, we want closure, but that doesn't mean you can just keep the current ending as the ONLY ending and just adding some new information for you will make this issue disappear. If they're so worried about fans who DON'T want the ending changed, they could just add new endings on as choices we can make. That way everyone can get what they want out of the series. You want the good ending, bad ending, nihilistic ending, ambiguous ending, or whatever ending combined with all the choices you made through all the games, you could have it.

Also, Dr. Muzyka seems to think that those opposed to the ending are opposed to the entire game, truth is, many of us love the entire game up until the ending. I think enough fans have voiced that opinion clearly enough for it to be evident.

Until I see what they are actually going to do, I will remain skeptical on their true intentions.

[ragnorok87]

Wildhide wrote...

Mr. Ray Muzyka,

Thank you for not responding. Could you please address all the concerns listed in the feedback you and your team have been reading per your claim? This post continues to merely deflect and not actually bring up any of the problems related to the ending. One does not simply clarifying plot holes and poor writing.

inded i agree with your post. he merely wants to avoid mentioning the ending became he has no plans to fix it. he was to make pointless dlc for you to buy. also bioware has now merged with ea and have become one being. a being that only wants to rob you and cause heartbreak, pain, misery, and suffering... and ruin great stories and works of art.

[ragnorok87]

camoboy_19 wrote...

To me, It just seems like Bioware is missing the point; Yes, we want closure, but that doesn't mean you can just keep the current ending as the ONLY ending and just adding some new information for you will make this issue disappear. If they're so worried about fans who DON'T want the ending changed, they could just add new endings on as choices we can make. That way everyone can get what they want out of the series. You want the good ending, bad ending, nihilistic ending, ambiguous ending, or whatever ending combined with all the choices you made through all the games, you could have it.

Also, Dr. Muzyka seems to think that those opposed to the ending are opposed to the entire game, truth is, many of us love the entire game up until the ending. I think enough fans have voiced that opinion clearly enough for it to be evident.

Until I see what they are actually going to do, I will remain skeptical on their true intentions.

well said, everyone loves the game except for the ending. the ending was a great epic fail and departure of everything mass effect stands for. thats why everyone is so upset. if you can write bioware and mr ray if you can.