2054 réponses à ce sujet

[Errationatus]

Arkitekt wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote:

I would like to point out that no one is at any particular "fault".  I think ME3 was an attempt at different form of narrative in games.   Bioware tried to be subtle, to layer the experience and counted on their fans to "get it" - and it failed because gamers simply don't expect subtle, or layers.  There's very little about a firefight that's subtle.  Only Mythbusters gets away with Knowledge Through Splosions.

That won't do Jake. There are too many problems with the endings. Now it may make sense to say that subtlety is the wrong culprit, that they didn't mess up that part, that giving "speculation" to everyone was not *the* bad call to make. However, given all the wrong things in the endings, it's only expectable that a lot of people will toss this particular into the fire as well.

To me, I see the endings as a combination of multiple layers of gameplay, narrative, characer development, closure, etc. And we may, analytically and rigorously, perhaps find that the "subtlety" of it was perfectly fine. However, the fact that there is no closure for the multiple choices you did along the game (for example by meshing it with the final mission's gameplay, giving you Rachni help if you so chose, giving you Geth help if you so chose, giving you feedback of the main battle depending on your previous alliance choices you made and the overall strenght of the fleet, etc.,etc.), that the final choices are somewhat inane and out of nowhere, the fact that there are very little distinctions between the endings, and the terrible dialogues that happen in the citadel, these issues are paramount and very distinct from "subtlety".

For me, the biggest sign of things going really downhill was the cartoonish Illusive Man we got at the Citadel. When I saw a man that had lost any ambiguity and still vouching for his ridiculous grandeous ideas despite it all like if he was a spambot or something, I knew it was gonna be bad. And you know? It was.

All I can say is that it certainly appears to me that most look at the endings isolated from the rest of the game.  People are making very large assumptions about just what the endings are trying to say, they assume that Bioware meant them as definitive and that they are the product of bad writing as opposed to something deliberate.   Also, don't forget that this is the third act in a three-act drama, and keeping the rest of the story in mind helps.  That Bioware didn't address everything at once or blatantly spell it out is not necessarily their fault, simply our perception that they haven't.  Or that they haven't yet.  We want it all and we want it now.

If I want to be arrogant, I'll simply say that I'm a patient man.  I'm willing to wait and see - and reserve any possible indignation for this game when it's actually all said and done.

[Canis_Major]

I liked the letter in general much better than C. H. last one.

Thanks for the trilogy Bioware guys, we just know you can do much better of an ending, no mater how bittersweet you want it.

[vader500]

 I know most people are going to get all mad with my opinion but I just want to say that my hat is off to Bioware for creating on of the best series of all time. I love the entire Mass Effect series and especially me3. ME3 is by far the best game I have ever played and is awesome. I know most people hate the ending and I am not a fan of the ending but in reality not every good guy wins in the end. The reapers got destroyed along with cerberus. I do question the ending of the normandy on a stranded planet and the destruction of the mass relays though. The biggest issue I have is the only three choices that you are given to complete the game of either destroy the reapers, control, or synthesis. I would like to suggest to you Bioware that you alter just a few parts in the game to include the ending to were the reapers do get destroyed but shepherd lives and it shows shepherd years from now either married or something depending on how well you prepare the galaxy and the decisions you made in ME and ME2. 
 
 I am a very loyal fan of the series and have played ME and ME2 at least 5 times apiece both good and bad making alternate choices. To see that these choices do not pan out in the final ME3 ending is somewhat disappointing. I do think it is immature how individuals have gone as far to personally attack the Bioware staff. Everyone makes mistakes in his or her life. This instance ME3 had a minor script and writing error. As long as Bioware fixes the issue with a few tweaks to the ending everything should be fine. But altogether, you guys have made a superb and perfect game all around. Mass Effect is by far my favorite and much better than Star Wars now due to the fact of the way you have created the ME Universe.

[Cyberfrog81]

GeneralArrow wrote...

OH MY GOD!!! THE FOUNDER WROTE YOU "FANS" ALL A LETTER AND YOUR STILL AT THIS? *FACEPALM*.How many of you guys bothered to think about what he was saying instead f tear down and destroy a perfectly good and well written letter.

I thought about it.

But haven't changed my mind. The ending is only clever if indoctrination theory holds water... but if it does, the actual ending is not even in the game. And if it doesn't... implications unpleasant.


On a more positive note...
Liara's role in ME2 was a letdown (not to mention Ashley/Kaidan... yikes). But they pretty much fixed that with a great piece of DLC, so... Dare we hope?

And also, I honestly feel our perspective becomes too narrow. Yes, the game deserved better endings, but it also deserved a better final mission. The London levels aren't bad, but fails to live up to the ME2 suicide mission. There ought to be several great character moments, Shepard should be making decisions along the way, he should order multiple squads around, and heck, he should probably fight Harbinger itself, alongside every army gathered! Handwavingly artsy doesn't cut it, the game deserves so much more.

[HolmesLovesGuinness]

chammie wrote...

I came up with two conclusions:

• The whole ending is a rouse an actual attempt to make fool the gamer as part of the indoctrination scenario. Plausible and risky especially considering the general reaction in the overall community. Not sure if I fully buy this one but it is possible.
• This may have not been exactly the ending they had itended due to time constraints placed on the delivery of the product. I think they were likely scrambling under some deadline pressure and thought well we can put this solution forward which closes out the story line. They tested the ending and said ok this might not fly so lets redo the scene with TIM with some slight modifications that can give us an out in case it is recieved poorly. (This means you could write new content and connect it up with the original game and not destroy the story line in the game).  They you wait and see what happens. I know that we have done this before on projects that had impossible completion dates.

Of course this is all opion and conjecture. No one really knows what the actual truth is other than Bioware. I am hoping for a new ending to the game since this would really improve the games replayability for me personally.

Option 3 (which seems to be the company line at this point) is that the game as we received it is *exactly* the ending they had in mind from the beginning (which I personally don't believe). I'm not sure which of the three options bothers me the most. Given how rushed the end game feels I tend to lean towards option 2.

Either way it's definitely put me off playing the game anymore or buying any additional content. Giving the player the illusion of choice for two games, then revealing in the final act that your choices are mostly irrelevant really undermines the entire foundation of the franchise.

[Errationatus]

TripleLife wrote...

JakeMacDon wrote...

Curiouser and curiouser.

 

Let me guess, you believe in the indoctrination theory?

I'm sorry Bioware gave you a nonsensical ending, but don't call everyone else stupid because they're not desperate to believe anything that saves Mass Effect.

You obviously didn't read what I said, or if you did, you skimmed like mad.  If you'd actually read what I said, you'd have seen that.  

Thank you, however, for illustrating what I actually did say.

[nikola8]

corpselover wrote...

nikola8 wrote...

My take away from Ray Muzyka's blog - no ending rewrite, but rather more explanation and closure for the current endings.

Smart move by Bioware to play all sides.

Its really just a general statement to try to deflate the criticism. There was absolutely nothing in his blog that seemed to indicate a sincere attempt to address fan concerns. I don't have any faith in Bioware to do the right thing here.

Of course it is general.  But it was the right move to make a statement rather than waiting until April to just make the "big statement" that he promised.  And, at the end of the first paragraph, he did talk about how they are trying to be humble about this whole thing.

In all reality, I find it very hard to believe that the developers sat in some back room and said, "let's make this ending just to make a lot of people mad."  Rather, I believe him when he says that they are surprised at the response to the ending.  

I don't envy Bioware's task right now- there are a lot of people that are upset, and there are a lot of people that would be upset if the ending changed.  Balancing the two conflicting camps is not something that sounds fun.  But I do believe that Bioware will come through.  

[ArinVakarian]

BioWare,

I normally do not take the time to write anything other than university papers and things to friends,
but felt compelled to do so given the recent circumstances. Firstly, thank you for the enthralling stories you have
taken my mind through. I have always been an avid reader of adventure stories, but few can match the adventures you have granted through the likes of Dragon Age: Origins and the Mass Effect series. For this, I sincerely thank you.

What I don’t appreciate is that you and your writers failed to respect BioWare customers and our characters.  It seems that you cannot recognize the importance of the two, so I will gladly explain myself for you.

The first is rather simple: you create a great fan base by creating great games- but that all goes out the window when you stab us in theback.  You cannot expect your fans to remain loyal when you have betrayed beloved series, and its consumers. Surely, you know this.

The second is a bit more intricate and somewhat more personal. Some may call me an idealist, but I firmly believe that hard work pays off. Since Mass Effect 1, my Shepard, my main Shepard I should clarify, has been thrust into the unknown with the fictional fate of the galaxy on her shoulders. She made tough decisions and has dearly paid for it with the death of close friends. Hers is not an easy life to live, but she is a hero through and through, and how have you repaid her? You stabbed her, you stabbed us, in the back.

With all that she has done, the very least my Shepard deserves is a happy ending a la Dragon Age: Origins. Unlike many here that would be happy with plotholes filled, I am not, for my Shepard has done the galaxy a great deed and you do her a great disservice by taking away her Love Interest, Garrus, and  keep her from living with him (or rather, at all). This girl destroyed the Reapers, she saved the galaxy! The least she deserves is to continue, to retain her love both from Garrus and from you.

But for all the six promised endings, not four, not five, let alone six, but of the THREE that were given, she is betrayed by you. We all are.

Having read Ray’s blog on criticism from fans, I fear we are playing a losing tug-of-war and while they may give us answers with DLC in the future, it’s obvious we are not getting the endings we and our Shepards deserve (so much for there being a perfect one, BioWare shouldn’t have advertised this, or six, endings to begin with). By the way, Ray, your fans have not been “destructive” in their criticism, you are simply overreacting and too proud to see things as they truly are. Humility keeps a straight head.

Are you really listening? If there is but one thing the various universes BioWare teaches us is that power corrupts and it seems that this, coupled with success, have corrupted your owed loyalty to your fans.


Companies thrive on the loyalty of their clients; yours is no exception.
Our loyalty can only go so far when you pull this kind of thing on us.

Respectfully yours (for now),
A.S.V.

Modifié par ArinVakarian, 21 mars 2012 - 09:46 .

[Eliantariel]

Dear Bioware team,

with already so much said in the previous posts I just wanted to add some points from my own opinion.

First: I love the Mass Effect series and ME3 was (beside the ending) my favourite. It was the most emotional game and never felt Shepard so alive and human before.

That we fans are reacting so emotional to everything concerning the game is that we have grown really attached to the characters and world that you created over the last three games. And to have decisions carry over all games is simply amazing. Thank you so much for this.

Besides the ending, there were some other points that bothered me a little:
1. Several actions on the space tab
That was sometimes problematic but as I mainly play because of the story and not the combat it was ok. But please do not do it again for the next game - you have less control over how Shepard reacts and in combat situations that can be problematic and in general a little annoying.

2. Jacob and Thane romance
I really feel sorry for the fans that romanced Jacob or Thane - Jacob was not really a favourite character among the fans but still a LI in ME2. That his fans now want to kill him of in ME2 is speaking enough. It is really depressing and for a character that was created as LI for ME2 a kind of waste that even his fans don't want to see him in ME3... and for Thane - it would have been great to have at least for a romanced Thane a kind of cure or at least something to prolong his life. In lair of the shadow broker it is said that he would be a good candidate for a transplantation so why not use this as solution to keep him alive?


But most importantly to the endings:
I noticed how often the good critics from magazines are mentioned. Don't get me wrong: ME3 is a great game, but please ask yourself the question: do those magazines and critics import a savegame from ME2 that was imported already from ME1? Do they follow the story since ME1? Are they really as attached to the game as those fans from beginning of ME1? I don't think so. If you are not attached to the Shepard you are playing and the characters or story than it is easy to be satisfied with the game.

Those who only play the game because of the combat and that are not really interested in the story or its characters or those who like in general dark endings with a heros sacrifice or see romances as time and ressource wasting are more likely to be happy with ME3.

My point is: I care about Shepard and his/her LI and the friends/characters from the beginning of ME1. Over the three game people spend time to get to know those characters and grow attached to them. So yes - I would like to have a kind of happy ending where Shepard and his/her LI are alive and together (not stranded on different worlds) and even better the more people are alive.

It would be great to have a ME2 kind of ending where you have the possibility to achieve a happy ending with people alive or for those that like to have a more dramatic ending sacrifices on the way. So everyone is happy. I would wish something like that for ME3. Make the war assets count and give the player more endings and more control over the endings.

And please: make it possible to achieve the Shepard breathes ending with single player and do not force the people to play multiplayer or the galaxy of war game to achieve this.

And finally: the popularity of the hallucination/indoctrination theory and the several linked videos in the previous posts about it should show you where the problems in the last 10 minute of the games lie. After the beam there are a couple of strange things that people noticed that really makes you question if it was real or just a dream. As it seems that it was not meant that way, these points should be fixed. With the indoctrination theory it would be answered, but than the game has no end and the battle is not over and without the indoctrination it just seems as kind of bad writing (in the last 10 minutes of the game where everything before that was great) or as if there are several serious plotholes and/or bugs.

Some examples:
- Why is the illusive man able to control Shepard and Anderson? Shepard maybe via implanted reaper tech but that was never mentioned, but Anderson?
- How does Anderson gets to the console before Shepard - we only see one way to the chamber and Anderson stated he entered the beam behind Shepard?
- It was mentioned that the Citadel was brought to earth so the reapers can protect it from being used together with the catalyst as weapon. Could they not defend the Citadel on its normal position in the widow system? Shepard and Anderson explain the dead bodies on the way to the control chamber with the Reapers collecting people for a new reaper - that seems strange because they could have moved the Citadel sooner for this to earth and does not really make sense
- Shepard shoots Anderson and is bleeding him-/herself on the same spot afterwards
- Crew members on final run to the citadel beam appearing on the crashed Normandy
and serval more (just watch the youtube videos).

And please give more information about what the choices mean and what is happening to the characters and the galaxy. For example with the synthesis ending it is really open what that would mean for the people. How exactly would they be affected? What would change? 

In short: more endings (at least one happy one), more choices, more explanation, more closure (what happens if I choose synthesis for example, are the Geth really destroyed in the destroy ending? ...).

Thank you.

[RiouHotaru]

Honestly, this is exactly the response I knew was coming.  The endings (at least to me) were perfectly fine, but there were points in the endings that needed extra context and explanation.  I figured they would already be working towards giving us that context (all the tweets about the DLC they're working on), so this message, while predictable, is still appreciated.

But really, anyone expecting a complete rewrite?  You're going to likely be sorely disappointed.  And I think that's fine.  To expect a complete revision at this stage is ridiculous.  And an explanation that puts the endings in the proper context, IMO, will fix a LOT of the existing issues.

[Errationatus]

chmarr wrote...

the indoctrination theroy was incomprehensibly debunked by nearly all the bioware staff that tweeted it, also the nonsensical inconceivble ending was so messed up even a game developer i know went "wow talk about smashing yourself in the face with a bat"

I said nothing about the indoctrination theory. I said nothing for or against it.  In fact my entire post wasn't even about the endings in particular, but as to why the hatred for them is so seemingly virulent.  

No offence, but your post also illustrates rather handily the point I had actually made.

[Azorgamer]

There is one thing I would like to say about ME3, it has made it hard for me to suggest that people pick up the trilogy.

I don't write a lot on the forums, stop by a lot but don't really say much, but my friends would tell you I'm an immense Mass Effect fan, there is no game series or game for that matter that I have been so addicted into playing, and that was because of the great story. I took a couple days of vacation off of work so that I could play ME3. It was an amazing game, until the ending.

I know that Bioware wants to focus on the part of the statement that many of us have said "it was an amazing game" and then they want to ignore or hope that the last part just goes away "...until the ending." I truly hope that this statement by Dr. Ray Muzyka is true and that they are seriously looking at their options about the ending. Because, and this was my main point I wanted to get across, as big of a fan I've been for the past 5 years, even to the point of having people roll their eyes at me as I spoke about Mass Effect - I now have a serious issue promoting this game to other people. Before I would be the biggest salesman on Mass Effect but now it gets awkward and I don't really know what to say. That's the thing, endings really do make or break a franchise, series, etc... When 2.9 games had so much effort put into them and the 0.1 which is the ending part seems like it was put together quickly and without much effort and no closure whatsoever for the characters in the game and the people (consumers) playing Mass Effect, it then becomes seriously difficult for me and others to push this game and convince others to play it.

That is why I hope the ending is fixed. I won't go into my opinions on how they should be fixed because I've wrote those down in other forums. But one thing I can personally promise Bioware (and I believe many other fans would agree with my sentiment), if the ending to Mass Effect is fixed, and we are given closure to Shepard's story that we have created in all our different playthroughs, I give Bioware my word that they will have another "salesman" of their product once more - I will go back to working to convince all those I know to pick up this series and play it.

It's one small promise from just one individual but I truly believe that if Bioware does this they not only will have me to push their products but also a ton of other fans.

Sorry for the wall of text and have an awesome day!

[venom56321489]

Lets all post good constructive feedback, but still continue to HOLD THE LINE! I will not breath easy till I see it.
HERE ARE SOME PROBLEMS
TALI PHOTO- COME ON RAY EVEN YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT WAS A LAZY PHOTO SHOP. My wife is in charge of a graphic design team and she said “yeah that is lazy” “we would never do that it is way too obvious”.

ENDINGS-
1.CHOICES MADE NO REAL DIFFERENCE
2. ALL ENDINGS SIMILAR MINUS COLOR AND FEW THINGS LIKE BIG BEN DESTROYED, AND ONLY SEE 3 CREW MEMBERS STRANDED WHERE ARE THE OTHERS.
3. ONE RELAY IN ARRIVAL DLC WIPED OUT A SYSTEM SO ALL THOSE BLOWING UP WOULD LEAVE NOTHING LEFT.

NO HARBINGER- HE WAS LIKE VADER OF FIRST STAR WARS TRILOGY AND WHEN YOU GET TO THE END NOTHING. EVEN THE COLLECTORS EDITION HARDCOVER STRATEGY GUIDE TALKS ABOUT HIM BEING SO MUCH LARGER THEN THE OTHER REAPERS SO HE MUST HAVE SOME BIG ROLE

[nikola8]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Honestly, this is exactly the response I knew was coming.  The endings (at least to me) were perfectly fine, but there were points in the endings that needed extra context and explanation.  I figured they would already be working towards giving us that context (all the tweets about the DLC they're working on), so this message, while predictable, is still appreciated.

But really, anyone expecting a complete rewrite?  You're going to likely be sorely disappointed.  And I think that's fine.  To expect a complete revision at this stage is ridiculous.  And an explanation that puts the endings in the proper context, IMO, will fix a LOT of the existing issues.

Agreed- the @masseffect twitter moderator has also been very helpful in responding to this announcement.  While not spilling what the April announcment will be, they have said that the game isn't going to be rewritten and that our choices from our current save files are not going to be negated.  

[Well]

Actions speak louder than words.Since DA 2 BW's credibility has really shrunk with me.

[Arandar]

 
http://www.forbes.co...ending-sort-of/

[scorpiondrums]

 This is great news!  Absolutely love the series.  Been a gamer since the commodore days....yes I'm THAT old!
So glad to hear that Bioware is attempting to reach out to the fanbase...this is phenomenal news.  First time I've ever posted to a game forum....but I just had to.  

Even with some of the weak links in the game...it's been an invigorating ride.  No game has ever captivated me, story wise, as the Mass Effect Serie has.  It's all an illusion...but a brilliant one at that.  

Now just looking for some closure...


Thank you Bioware and all the very creative folks who poured their sweat and talent into making this game EPIC!!

[AnarchyyFox]

Lets worry about putting tires on our cars before we start talking about a vaction.

Fix Our Faces....

[emeritus1]

I feel quite sad about this whole ordeal.

For me the series is going to be forever marred by how it ended and I doubt I'll be able to play any future Mass Effect (or maybe even Bioware product) and not always think about this.

[Errationatus]

 camoboy_19 wrote...

If anything you just clarified you ARE pulling some elitist crap.  You state very clearly you think that "the majority of us" do NOT understand the subtle overtones you are standing behind.  You don't NEED to look for subtle overtones for this ending, the "hidden meanings" and psuedo-philisophical jargon of the story don't necessarily change the fact that the ending of this story was awful, and that most people see that very clearly.  Saying that you aren't saying that we couldn't understand and then impling again that we don't have the critical thought to do so (you aren't the first to) is 100% hypocrisy.

 

Nope.  Didn't say that.  I've accused no one of being stupid, nor am I saying I get it over anyone else.  I said people will feel stupid when this is all said and done, not that they are stupid.  I gave no opinion on the endings at all, I simply stated an opinion on why I thought it existed at all.  I said, basically:  if you paid attention you get what Bioware was attempting, just like if you'd actually paid attention to what I actually wrote initially, I wouldn't have to keep explaining it over and over.  Make sense, yet?

 
Also, I know people have said in Bioware that they wanted to make sacrifice a strong overtone, but you can ask any player who saw the fleets in ME1 demolished by 1 Reaper and the geth fleet, the Human-Reaper made of the DNA of MILLIONS of humans, and every meaningful death and personal sacrifice you made throughout all the games is quite enough sacrificing as it is.  We got it, trust us.

Good for you.  Again, I said nothing to that effect.  I could point out that in ME1 and 2, we as Shepard did not personally make those big sacrifices, we simply set their tone.  ME3 is supposed to be far more personal for Shepard than the first two.  Did you get that?

[daftPirate]

OdanUrr wrote...

"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey."

That tells me that the ending we got is the one they intended us to have. I'm sure someone will spin it differently though.

I'm 90% sure this has been confirmed somewhere, I believe in the Final Hours of ME3 thing/thread.

[Canis_Major]

L00p wrote...

Canis_Major wrote...

I liked the letter in general much better than C. H. last one.

Thanks for the trilogy Bioware guys, we just know you can do much better of an ending, no mater how bittersweet you want it.

Retarded ≠ bittersweet.

I agree. That's why i say that they can do much better (avoiding plotholes etc), because the problem is not that the ending is "unhappy". English is not my mother tongue maybe i don't explain myself clearly.

[aries1001]

I agree with JakeMacDon that is all about player's expectations. However, Bioware themselves, as I see it, have helped to create these expectations. Everytime when I go home from work I go through my local Blockbuster store. There is a big card board figure of male Shep with big letters saying Mass Effect 3 and down below this, it says: Take Earth back. Even the trailers that Bioware produced and showed before the release had this theme, the demo of ME3 likewise.

If you make the Take Eath Back message a strong part - and maybe the only part? - in your marketing and your communication for this game (bfeore the games is out) telling gamers about what this game is all about - players do really expect a tough fight to take Earth back. Yes, they might lose this battle, but at least their Shep, male or female, died trying. And then at the end in the game, players get a choice to do what?
Choose between button x, z and y or ? And then what happens? I think players and gamers want to find out happens next to their Shep, to their crew and the Galaxy. And that's fine with open endings, but before this, give players and gamers an end battle, a sense of fullfillment, even if it means that Shep sacfrifices herself in order to make sure her crew survives.

Another thing to consider: The ending and the beginning to a novel, a short story or a game should always be written first and fleshed out in great detail. So now you have a way to start and a goal to work towards. Things may change yes, but then it is much easier to change the ending if you know what the ending, or final scene, in the games, is going to be. [Apparently, the ending come together in late november/early december 2011).