2054 réponses à ce sujet

[Well]

ragnorok87 wrote...

well watch this important polictical leaders review on the ending. its quite good.
http://knowyourmeme....dings-reception

Did you see this?It was good to.

[bobhampt]

At least make the CE dog do something.

[BogdanUKR1984]

I took some time to collect some ideas how to response to Dr. Ray Muzyka statement.

My experience with your product overall is good, but as many point here that it's main feature of all Mass Effect series to have a multiple endings which reflect all of your decisions (bad and good).
It's understandable that development of such equal product is heavy task, not to say to control the overall quality of big project (which always headache for product manager)
For that reason i can advise you to be ready to take support from community (involvement in close beta testing, feedback from the pre - released content)
This will give you such huge advantage of other competitor's who exclude customers from the participant on the game development!
By the way some game studio like inXile entertainment actually start project with 100% gamers funding !
Another thing which got my attention was like photoshoped tali face, this was actually obvious and confusing.
I believe that Bioware is capable of doing great project's , but some involvement of community have to be essential part of the game development  and i quite sure as result  you will be able to sastify us customers which only end in great sales numbers!
I sincerely hope, that you take my advises into consideration.

[Starchs]

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

Closure!? I don't care about no stinkin' closure!

The problem here is how astonshingly ridiculous and nonsensical the ending is. I was literally staring at my TV wondering why BioWare would write such a brilliant game for the first 19 hours, then nuke the lore and create plot holes large enough that entire planets could get through them.

Gah, I'll stop there...

EDIT: For the record, if it's true that the ending we got is meant to be taken at face value, I will be returning my collector's edition to Amazon for a full refund. You can call me a whiny, entitled brat, but I could honestly care less. 

Just think about this one thing before you denounce me: 

Imagine if "The Lord of the Rings" ended as Mass Effect 3 ended: 

Frodo gets to Mt. Doom and finds out that the fire is not actually fire but is the Architect from The Matrix: Reloaded or the starchild from Mass Effect. 

Go here: 
http://i0.kym-cdn.co...270/606/13a.jpg 

Damnnit you beat me to it

[TobyTucker]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

And also, I honestly feel our perspective becomes too narrow. Yes, the game deserved better endings, but it also deserved a better final mission. The London levels aren't bad, but fails to live up to the ME2 suicide mission. There ought to be several great character moments, Shepard should be making decisions along the way, he should order multiple squads around, and heck, he should probably fight Harbinger itself, alongside every army gathered! Handwavingly artsy doesn't cut it, the game deserves so much more.

My idea would be to break this into two parts. One where you actually got to use your "War Assets" in battle. You could either act as the Grand Commander, ordering your fleets into action or you could join in each individual battle. The assets you got to use would be restricted to those you collected during the game, making it imperitive that you collected as much as possible during the game to assure a successful outcome to this part of the game.

If you were successful in this battle, you would be fully ready to engage in a "final" battle with Harbinger, but if you didn't do quite as well, your effectiveness in the final fight would be diminished proportionately, limiting your chances of success, which would lead to different possible endings in the game.

I rather prefer this over cutscenes of some of the fleets in action and "Space Magic".

[Hashishim]

lol yay:D April more wait though:( damnit dont these people know we got exams!

Anyways, good to know, but the question to Bioware was cutting out the 'ending' and leaving us like this, was it planned? or not, and this is just you creating Publicity.

Either way excellent news and cant wait just dont make us wait to long :/ 8 more days to April! Wil it be an Easter Egg I hoope:D

[a_random_me]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

A message from the founder of BioWare saying that they're listening and gathering feedback from the people who they KNOW are upset, and asking for constructive criticism so they can use it to build on...


And he still gets ripped for it.

Holy hell, people.

Pretty much.
Personally I think it's a really good sign of a company to respond to things, especially if you think in comparison to other industries, so that deserves a fair amount of credit - they've seen people aren't happy with the end, and are offering to the fanbase that they're going to do something about it. This is, to my knowledge, a fairly unprecedented move.

And, to be fair, a lot of the game was pretty spectacular - Mordin's moments get special mention. So, when do we get to play a prequel based on his time in the STG?

[Hayes1987]

Well, Ray can certainly write well. I do hope for something to come up with the ending free or charged I'll be getting it regardless. I think Ray and the rest of Bioware have a chance to do something great with the ending and game as a whole. I can't articulate on the ending any better than the more rational analysis's I've read but I can say that some of the points they make are genuine. I'm not necessarily in agreement with the need for a happier ending though I usually go for the happiest one available otherwise I feel like I've failed to beat the game. I completely understand and support the fact that in order for this cycle(inferior to AT LEAST the protheans) is incapable of fighting the reapers and in order to get it done, the losses have to be outragously high.

Like the disconnect from the rest of the game(which I think with a little more explanation and (buildup?) they could still use that. I just felt like I didn't know what was even going down and I didn't think Shepard should have reacted so........docile like. Another example is my confusion on how my squadmates came to be on the Normandy which has been discussed a lot.

Like I said most of the genuine concerns are already out there. But what I can tell you is that due to another poster, I have noticed the lack of Harbinger. It was an incredible job to make something so awesome that I totally forget about Harbinger though.

Overall, if I enjoyed every minute of the games, the ending and lack of Harbinger cannot ruin it for me. Not that with some upgrades it wouldn't be forever immortalized in gaming heaven if the ending and more Harbinger were present!

HARBINGER!!!

Modifié par Hayes1987, 21 mars 2012 - 10:15 .

[daftPirate]

Starchs wrote...

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

Closure!? I don't care about no stinkin' closure!

The problem here is how astonshingly ridiculous and nonsensical the ending is. I was literally staring at my TV wondering why BioWare would write such a brilliant game for the first 19 hours, then nuke the lore and create plot holes large enough that entire planets could get through them.

Gah, I'll stop there...

EDIT: For the record, if it's true that the ending we got is meant to be taken at face value, I will be returning my collector's edition to Amazon for a full refund. You can call me a whiny, entitled brat, but I could honestly care less. 

Just think about this one thing before you denounce me: 

Imagine if "The Lord of the Rings" ended as Mass Effect 3 ended: 

Frodo gets to Mt. Doom and finds out that the fire is not actually fire but is the Architect from The Matrix: Reloaded or the starchild from Mass Effect. 

Go here: 
http://i0.kym-cdn.co...270/606/13a.jpg 

Damnnit you beat me to it

Disclaimer: I love Lord of the Rings, BUT

Are you familiar with 
http://www.howitshouldhaveended.com/  ? Look through those videos, LotR is there.
Have a look. The entire of journey of Lord of the Rings is a plot hole. Giant Eagles, 'nuff said.

[Draugr]

http://www.forbes.co...ending-sort-of/

Nailed it.

[Eralrik]

First off I'd like to apologize to Chris Preistly and Casey Hudson and the I've admired you guys for a long time and that I acted as a jerk when I made earlier posts.
An Ray hit on some valid points without actualy dropping any spoilers or breaking the NDA so I completely understand that.

But I still can't wrap my mind around the ending, now if I was a new player and really didn't know anything about the Mass Effect Lore or the universe then the endings was really cool and kinda breath taking. But as an Avid Fan and having played the ME 1 & 2 several times and even had to get my cd key for ME1 and its expansion changed 4 times from over use and HDD formats and Also ME2, I think I'm on my 13th play through and while I greatly enjoyed ME3's journey to the end and I am also on another play through but I'll probably stop just before the final push to the citadel on Earth.
The ending just deosn't meet with the correct ending for the wrap up of the universe that we as fans have come to love, cry and enjoy that we talk about it to our freinds, co-workers and anyone who will listen.
<Spoiler> That said the ending has plot holes galore and each choice makes Shepard feel like the greatest War Crimminal that ever existed, after finally making peace with the Geth and getting the Quarians home we now choose to destroy them and Joker who is now really happy, we destroy his love interest and leave the mad utterly in chaos by crushing him after helping him Just to destroy the reapers not to mention any Alien or Human in the Galaxy that has cyborg implants will die.

Then after you make a choice from the 3 each has a price to pay for the rest of the galaxy as all the Mass Relays have been destroyed and the fleet we built and it was pretty impressive is now stranded in the Sol system with no way home and I sure as heck aint telling Wrex or Jacob that they won't be home to see their kids born.

An on top of all that if the Lore we know to be true and from playing the very fun DLC Arrival in ME2 that the destruction of a Mass Relay would in effect cause a SuperNova wiping out all life in the solar system, so that being said our 3 choices really don't work with the added addition of the relays getting destroyed as each system has one and would in effect cause Supernova's wiping out all life including the Sol system and our massive fleet and the citadel.
Coarse one of my biggest questions is the system where Omega sits in it has 2 Mass Relays, the regualr relay and the Omega 4 Relay both get destroyed what type of explosion and the destruction from both would cause it boggles the mind.
So in essense Shepard does in a matter of weeks what it would have taken the Reapers 100+ years according to Liara to wipe all life in the galaxy with just the push of a button and surrending to the reaper kid and giving up our free will anc chucking in the towel.
That being said if I was a new player I wouldn't change a thing about the game as it is pretty awsome, but I'm not and I stand with the other players wanting ending choices that match the ME3 universe and able to keep some of the promises that Shepard gave as a Paragon and possibly become an Admiral and help rebuild humanity and the other fallen civilization's and closure and plot holes filled.
An I still support BW and believe that everyone will make the right choices and review the lore that has been built around the Universe, so good work BW ME team many kudos go out to you and your family's for the patience while building this game.

[jzackowski]

I don't have a lot of time and this was an appropriate spot to post a reply to this news.  I don't know if this message will get to the staff at Bioware or read but after reading and playing the game here are my two cents as a consumer.   I'm a 30 year old married guy with a life and a career so the basement dwelling nerd is ruled out.

I haven't really played a game that connected to me like the Mass Effect series has.  I didn’t play Mass Effect 1 until Mass Effect 2 was out.  Simply put, I fell in love with the game.  I couldn’t understand why people complained about this or that about ME 1, I simply loved it.  It was like playing a movie.  I waited a while to play ME 2 after and I loved it as well.  It was brilliant.  After I played ME 2 I became a Mass Effect nut.  It was just that powerful of a game.  Great story, fun combat, the choices were amazing.  I simply couldn’t wait for  ME 3 to come out.  It was the first game I “pre-ordered”.  I can say that I loved Mass Effect 3. 
I was not happy with the ending for sure, if this was to be the last story of Shepard I felt I needed more.  At the same time it was the right blend of hope and melancholy the series meant to me.  The people’s anger over the ending is understandable, but the rage it misplaced.  These games were freaking amazing and a 5 minute ending shouldn’t ruin your life.
That being said,  If you folks due have an alternate ending you can bet I’ll give you my money for it.  The 80 bucks I shelled out for ME3 was worth every penny, every cent.  ME 3 is worth 10 games for 60 bucks and the readers know it.  By choosing to have an additional ending Bioware, again, is the hero of the gaming industry.  Your artists should be appaulded for their vision and your courage is swallowing your pride and giving players another choice.  Imagine how many movie studios would have like a do-over on a movie to make it more in line with what the consumers want?
Anyway, that’s my two cents.  Bioware, you guys rock.  Seriously, the Mass Effect games are my favourite games of all time.

Modifié par jzackowski, 21 mars 2012 - 10:24 .

[Getorex]

Heather Cline wrote...

Cartims wrote...

"Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes. In ethics, integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions."

Integrity like charging us an extra $10 on release day for DLC already on the disc or giving us an ending with Shep on LSD or making moot every decision you make in the first two games.

"Artistic Integrity"....we have dismissed these claims.

Funny thing is the Day 1 DLC for those who didn't get the Collectors edition isn't even worth it. Compare it to MotA for DA2 or the other DLC for DA2 regarding Hawke's father. Both were at least 3 hours of game play apiece. From the Ashes for ME3 wasn't even an hour long, even with the cutscenes and finding all the data to help the colonists. It was about 45 minutes long. Not worth 10 dollars for those who had to pay for it. 

Yeah Artistic Integrity as they define it is crap.

I don't know, I rather liked the DLC (though not that they pulled it from the final game to package it as a for-pay DLC).  DLC should be add-on that continues the playability of the main game but is not essential to the game.  Sure the day 1 DLC fits the bill of  "not essential" but I thought it worked.  Why?  It showed the almost mythic Protheans out to be merely arrogant, imperialistic pricks rather than the wise, learned Great Ones everyone thought they were.  THAT was pretty cool, actually.  I did find it jarring that they apparently came from Jamaica but other than that...he was a decent squadmate.

[ecarden]

I am, hesitantly, hopeful.

And so, return, eagerly, to the MP, which I actually quite enjoyed.

ETA: Though not single player until this is resolved.

Modifié par ecarden, 21 mars 2012 - 10:30 .

[daftPirate]

Getorex wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

Cartims wrote...

"Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes. In ethics, integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions."

Integrity like charging us an extra $10 on release day for DLC already on the disc or giving us an ending with Shep on LSD or making moot every decision you make in the first two games.

"Artistic Integrity"....we have dismissed these claims.

Funny thing is the Day 1 DLC for those who didn't get the Collectors edition isn't even worth it. Compare it to MotA for DA2 or the other DLC for DA2 regarding Hawke's father. Both were at least 3 hours of game play apiece. From the Ashes for ME3 wasn't even an hour long, even with the cutscenes and finding all the data to help the colonists. It was about 45 minutes long. Not worth 10 dollars for those who had to pay for it. 

Yeah Artistic Integrity as they define it is crap.

I don't know, I rather liked the DLC (though not that they pulled it from the final game to package it as a for-pay DLC).  DLC should be add-on that continues the playability of the main game but is not essential to the game.  Sure the day 1 DLC fits the bill of  "not essential" but I thought it worked.  Why?  It showed the almost mythic Protheans out to be merely arrogant, imperialistic pricks rather than the wise, learned Great Ones everyone thought they were.  THAT was pretty cool, actually.  I did find it jarring that they apparently came from Jamaica but other than that...he was a decent squadmate.

Aye, as far as the DLC goes, it added significantly beyond a new squadmate. The mission to Thessia was a whole different ball game to me when I had the DLC squadmate, among other interesting insights.

[Drake_1000]

It's better than what said Casey but not enough for me.

[Getorex]

bobhampt wrote...

At least make the CE dog do something.

What, it doesn't even crap nuts and bolts on the carpet?

[DVZ]

A lot of people are forgetting the Collectors Edition didn't just come with the From Ashes DLC. There was a hardback 'Art of Mass Effect 3' book, a short comic book, limited edition lythographic print, N7 fabric badge, and other downloadable content. Well worth the £60 I paid. And I'll gladly pay whatever Bioware ask for every DLC. Mass Effect is worth it. (And frankly, the way some of you complain about wasting $10 or whatever it is makes you sound like cheap bastids!)

Modifié par DVZ, 21 mars 2012 - 10:34 .

[jobelous]

Translation From PR-Speak to English of Bioware Co-Founder Dr. Ray Muzyka’s Response to Mass Effect 3 players.

(Loosely based on previous art by John Gruber of Daring Fireball)

EDIT: reposted as a new thread ...
EDIT2: reinstated as Bioware closed the thread.

> To Mass Effect 3 players, from Dr. Ray Muzyka, co-founder of BioWare
>
> As co-founder and GM of BioWare, I’m very proud of the ME3 team; I
> personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we’ve yet created. So,
> it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the
> game’s endings were not up to their expectations. Our first instinct is to
> defend our work and point to the high ratings  offered by critics but out of
> respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with
> humility.

I don't want to point to all these reviews, but let me start off with  them to set the frame. Please don't think about a red elephant next or Dr. Evil with his pinky up.

To our stockholders I say: These critics are really just *offering* us these high scores. We need not take them, but we do. However, because we like the paying customer who is offering us actual money so much, we're listening to them anyway. With bowed heads. Seriously, we can't look you in the eyes and count
your money at the same time.

> I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our
> medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story
> unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive
> criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic
> choices made by the development team.  The team and I have been thinking
> hard about how to best address the comments on ME3's endings from players,
> while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.

I believe that businesses built on art forms are ultimately built on the spending power of their customers who they must engage.

These people have a right to free speech. We would like to frame anything that is not constructive as illegitimate criticism.

We sat in a meeting room and made an artistic choice on the ending. With all your complaining, you've made us now sit in meeting rooms all the time, figuring out how we can fix this without admitting any wrongdoing on our part  compromising the artistic integrity of the game.

> To Mass Effect 3 players, from Dr. Ray Muzyka, co-founder of BioWare
>
> As co-founder and GM of BioWare, I’m very proud of the ME3 team; I
> personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we’ve yet created. So,
> it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the
> game’s endings were not up to their expectations. Our first instinct is to
> defend our work and point to the high ratings  offered by critics but out of
> respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with
> humility.

I don't want to point to all these reviews, but let me start off with them to set the frame. Please don't think about a red elephant next or Dr. Evil with his pinky up.

To our stockholders I say: These critics are really just *offering* us these high scores. We need not take them, but we do. However, because we like the paying customer who is offering us actual money so much, we're listening to them anyway. With bowed heads. Seriously, we can't look you in the eyes and count your money at the same time.

> I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our
> medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story
> unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive
> criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic
> choices made by the development team.  The team and I have been thinking
> hard about how to best address the comments on ME3's endings from players,
> while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.

I believe that businesses built on art forms are ultimately built on the spending power of their customers who they must engage.

These people have a right to free speech. We would like to frame anything that is not constructive as illegitimate criticism.

We sat in a meeting room and made an artistic choice on the ending. With all your complaining, you've made us now sit in meeting rooms all the time, figuring out how we can fix this without admitting any wrongdoing on our part  compromising the artistic integrity of the game.

> Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership
> of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions
> players would feel when  they finished playing through it.  The journey you
> undertake in Mass Effect provokes an intense range of highly personal
> emotions in the player; even so, the passionate reaction of some of our most
> loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has
> genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and  we will
> respond to it in a fair and timely way. We're already working hard to do
> that.

Remember all these play-testers' names in the credits? They are all made up! We couldn't possibly have predicted the outrage that started two weeks before the official release. Especially in a game about player control
with an ending without player control.

> To that end, since the game launched, the team has been poring over
> everything they can find about reactions to the game industry press, forums,
> Facebook, and Twitter,  just to name a few. The Mass Effect team, like other
> teams across the BioWare Label within EA, consists of passionate people who
> work hard for the love of creating  experiences that excite and delight our
> fans.  I'm honored to work with them because they have the courage and
> strength to respond to constructive feedback.

Jesus! You people are everywhere! But let me not miss a chance to list the game industry press as the most important thing first, because you're everywhere, but not *there*.

I'd also like you all to believe that the "team" is still around. Bioware, as only the second company in the world to launch a massive multiplayer game the size of WOW, usually just assembles teams for a project and then
pays these people indefinitely without giving them new things to do. We still have a Dragon Age: Origins team stored next to the Baldur's Gate team in the basement. These video game teams have grown so much over the last 10 years, we now have to stack them on shelves! Can you believe it?

> Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard
> at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the
> questions, providing  more clarity for those seeking further closure to
> their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April.  We’re working hard to
> maintain the right balance between the artistic  integrity of the original
> story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received.  This is in addition
> to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and  new
> full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe
> can, and will, continue.

Thanks, dear community, for the 19-page Google Docs document that did all the work for us. Since you pointed that out to us, we found a couple of people to finally pore over our own work just as hard as we looked at that fourth Mass Effect novel! Don't you wish our ending was as well written as that now??! Hehe *wink*. Too soon?

More importantly, to EA's board of directors I say: We have in no way damaged our Intellectual Property or changed our plans to churn out new products with this name on it and we'll milk this cash cow as planned. However, I have to prepare you for a additional budget item that we'll need to address this mess that we
made while not admitting to anything maintaining artistic integrity.

> The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On one
> hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure
> about how their game  concluded; we care about this feedback, and we’re
> planning to directly address it. However, most folks appear to agree that
> the game as a whole is exceptional, with more  than 75 critics giving it a
> perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, Im proud of
> the team, but we can and must always strive to do better.

I said I wouldn't point to the critics above to defend us? Now I'm doing it anyway. It's just as if, in the end, I forgot all about the previous choices I made. Hehe *wink*. Again, too soon?

Nobody knows more about this game than these 75 people whose lively-hood depends on them giving us good reviews.

Even more importantly, only *some* of our *most loyal fans* (really almost nobody) is complaining about this.
 
> Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our
> most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more
> clarity to questions  or looking for more closure, for example has
> unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and
> will respond to constructive criticism, but much as  we will not tolerate
> individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to
> destructive commentary.

See how this is the second time I've repeated the phrase: "Looking for more closure" and how Casey wrote the same thing? Our PR-People We don't want to admit  that anything is wrong with our product, other than that its awesomeness hurt people more than we predicted!

> If you are a Mass Effect fan and have input for the team - we respect your
> opinion and want to hear it. We’re committed to address your constructive
> feedback as best we can.  In return, I’d ask that you help us do that by
> supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted. I
> urge you to do your own research: play the game,  finish it and tell us what
> you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole. Trust
> that we are doing our damndest, as always, to address your feedback.   As
> artists, we care about our fans deeply and we appreciate your support.

Up is down! Black is white! The best way to get all the problems fixed is to tell all your friends to go and buy the game and make us some money!

And don't forget to play it as much as possible to prop up our key performance  indicators for the next earnings call. Could you please now all go play multiplayer so I can make a screenshot of the "player engagement" graph?

> Thank you for your feedback, we are listening.

Thank you Dr. Muzyka, I hope I get to talk to you at next years GDC when all this is behind you.

Modifié par jobelous, 21 mars 2012 - 11:54 .

[The Sarendoctrinator]

I'm glad BioWare took the time to write this, and I hope it means good news is coming in April. Expansion pack, please?

Eliantariel wrote...

It would be great to have a ME2 kind of ending where you have the possibility to achieve a happy ending with people alive or for those that like to have a more dramatic ending sacrifices on the way. So everyone is happy. I would wish something like that for ME3. Make the war assets count and give the player more endings and more control over the endings.

And please: make it possible to achieve the Shepard breathes ending with single player and do not force the people to play multiplayer or the galaxy of war game to achieve this.

This is exactly what I wanted too. There was a common theme of hope in the previous two games and their endings, and throughout most of ME3, that completely disappears in its final moments. And to make it worse, the ending that many fans consider the best is unavailable to players who don't use an online connection with their game. I don't think BioWare did this on purpose, but it needs to be fixed, and hopefully they'll keep in mind that a part of this group that can't or doesn't use multiplayer will have a problem with DLC being unavailable to them as well.