2054 réponses à ce sujet

[JorSpec2012]

I'm taking a wait and see approach.After a week of lip service and double-talk,I don't trust anyone anymore.

[Deepo78]

 
Although I regret Dr. Muzkya's address utliziing much of the same PR lingo we've had inflicted on us after airing our initial grievances, there were alot of positive things in there. I may be reading between the lines a bit too much here but here are a few things I've gleaned.


They know the ending to Mass Effect 3 is a dud.

Although Ray did continue carrying the water for  "the vocal minority" label slapped on us, there are few if no sources of information that back that up. Even the IGN polls deep in the enemy camp show that the majority of players surveyed hated the ending, this is pretty much the case everywhere.  However wonky these polls are, they are a pretty good metric for gauging what the general user consensus is, combined with the dip in Metacritic, Amazon ratings plus the new batch of post release reviews the general blogosphere chatter and the limited but highly visible press coverage concerning the Retake Mass Efffect 3 movement.

Forget about an apology.

As nice as it would be, they can't actually come out and say they goofed. They're still less than 3 weeks into marketing their biggest game release of the year.  Although an apology would mend alot of fences with their fanbase, it would also risk turning unsold retail copes of ME3 into door stops until the new ending content emerges. Admitting in a press release that they released even an incomplete or subpar game would only make things worse for appealing to prospective customers new to the series. Personally, I think this is the one instance where we should cut them a little slack. Although myself and many fans are still a little raw about it, being able to have a complete Mass Effect 3 experience is more important than rubbing someones nose in something. Once again this is a just case of one guy spittballing, if you want a pro check out Bachuck and atghunter's analysis here:

http://social.biowar.../index/10084349

We've made alot of great progress with Bioware but we're not out of the woods yet.

Be polite, be insistent. Hold the line.

[nikola8]

Based on Ray's announcement, I would be very surprised if they rewrote the endings - the line "I believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team", among others, pretty much says it.

I'm predicting an expansion standalone game - similar to Dragon Age: Origins Awakening. I bet, in it, they're going to try to explain the ending in more depth.

[dnormX]

 Dr. Ray

For a long time I have been an avid fanboy of Bioware. I have pre-ordered everything you have made... up until Mass Effect 3. I want you to know, that I am buying it, as well as the first two (again) as soon as I can. I am doing this as a meager show of support for the letter you posted to fans today.

As I haven't bought ME 3 yet I really have no idea what the fuss is about. But what you wrote is, in my opinion, one of the most needed ingrediants in the game industry today. Bioware is a shining example to the entertainment industry as a whole. I hope you realize, that you have the most passionate fans, because everything you do is worth being passionate about. 

Please don't let this situation discourage you. To have such a heated response, you MUST have a great deal of affection from your fans. I hope now your fans will realize how much all of you at Bioware care for them in return.

Your fan and friend,
Will

[Byrddi]

 Thank You BioWare! From a Diehard "Mass Effect" fan.  Keep true to your word and you"ll find are support behind you.                                                          With love

[tomcplotts]

To Recap:

"We're right, you're wrong, but we're considering your wrongness. Now, obey me, my serfs!"

SIncerely, Dr. Whatever.

[Kaloneous]

Deepo78 wrote...

 
Although I regret Dr. Muzkya's address utliziing much of the same PR lingo we've had inflicted on us after airing our initial grievances, there were alot of positive things in there. I may be reading between the lines a bit too much here but here are a few things I've gleaned.


They know the ending to Mass Effect 3 is a dud.

Although Ray did continue carrying the water for  "the vocal minority" label slapped on us, there are few if no sources of information that back that up. Even the IGN polls deep in the enemy camp show that the majority of players surveyed hated the ending, this is pretty much the case everywhere.  However wonky these polls are, they are a pretty good metric for gauging what the general user consensus is, combined with the dip in Metacritic, Amazon ratings plus the new batch of post release reviews the general blogosphere chatter and the limited but highly visible press coverage concerning the Retake Mass Efffect 3 movement.

Forget about an apology.

As nice as it would be, they can't actually come out and say they goofed. They're still less than 3 weeks into marketing their biggest game release of the year.  Although an apology would mend alot of fences with their fanbase, it would also risk turning unsold retail copes of ME3 into door stops until the new ending content emerges. Admitting in a press release that they released even an incomplete or subpar game would only make things worse for appealing to prospective customers new to the series. Personally, I think this is the one instance where we should cut them a little slack. Although myself and many fans are still a little raw about it, being able to have a complete Mass Effect 3 experience is more important than rubbing someones nose in something. Once again this is a just case of one guy spittballing, if you want a pro check out Bachuck and atghunter's analysis here:

http://social.biowar.../index/10084349

We've made alot of great progress with Bioware but we're not out of the woods yet.

Be polite, be insistent. Hold the line.

^This I agree with. We can wait to see what they can give in terms of closure and carry ourselves with diginity and politeness during the feedback process. I can be patient and wait, my reactions depends on their response and my own ability to disseminate the PR speak so heavily bandied about. I am not a member of the Retake group (don't have fb) but I agree with their overall goal and wish for a logical ending that doesn't make me want to walk away as a customer of one of the better gaming companies of the last two decades. I have faith in BioWare though and I believe this will be resolved through mediation and respect between everyone involved.

[Keladis]

Dr. Ray Muzyka, thank you for taking the time to respond!

To Mass Effect 3 players, from Dr. Ray Muzyka, co-founder of BioWare

As co-founder and GM of BioWare, I am very proud of the ME3 team; I personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we’ve yet created. So, it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations. Our first instinct is to defend our work and point to the high ratings offered by critics – but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility.

I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team.  The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.

I can see where your are coming from and I am sure all of the development team worked hard to deliver the ending (and once again I say ending because no matter what you pick it always the same ending except for minor changes.) they gave us.  My problem is that the ending makes absolutely no sense other then using The Indoctrination Theory.

I have no problem with the theory itself and actually think it could of made a great ending to the game "IF" the development team had shown that after Shepard fails to break the Indoctrination attempts he wakes up on earth under the reapers control and helps them to win or after failing he dies.

Then if Shepard managed to break the indoctrination attempt, the team showed that he woke up on earth allowing us to take control of Shepard again and finish destroying the Reapers. Then depending on choices you have made you got to see endings  anywhere from destroying the Reapers and something goes wrong killing Shepard, Earth and the fleet fighting the Reapers. To an ending where everyone lives. Getting to see the galaxy celebrating.and Shepard reuniting with his crew and LI

As it was we got an ending that did not make any sense other then using The Indoctrination Theory and no confirmation if the theory is true, so we are left to presume that the theory cant be true! Otherwise the development team sold us an incomplete game, so that they could sell us the ending later.

Which is a very low thing to do!

Another problem I have is the lies the development team told us. I will list a few with links to interviews in which they was promised.

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/
“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass

Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”
 
 
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/
“I’m always leery of saying there are ‘optimal’ endings, because I think

one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are

optimal for different people “
 
 
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/
“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as

much as we are anyway.”
 
 
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How

could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and

then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t

say any more than that…”
 
 
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry
“Every decision you’ve made will impact how things go. The player’s also the

architect of what happens.”
“You’ll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless

of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we’re going to provide

some answers to these people.”
“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it’s being

brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they

got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was

because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you

didn’t make”
 
 
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the

universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in

Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that’s very different

based on what you would do in those situations.”
 
 
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/
“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get

some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”
“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the

lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,

being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an

end.”
Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”

Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with

the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”
 
 
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that

same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to

build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about

eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is

coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot

more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many

decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that

stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,

where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got

ending A, B, or C…..The endings have a lot more sophistication and

variety in them.”
“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player

decide what your story is.”

[addiction21]

BrotherWarth wrote...

 Another is that Shepard meekly accepts this premise and the choices presented to him, which is completely out of character for Shepard and the franchise.

Really? Have I played the same games as you? Shepard always accepts the premises presented to him. EVERY TIME.
Zapped with images on Eden Prime and Shepard happily follows them even tho it goes against everything he knows and understands.
TIM tells him he is the hero that can stop the collectors and he goes with that premise. Just takes the Councils spurns and helps TIM.
The sudden discovery of the Crucible he happily takes ahold of it. Even tho he has no idea of what it is or what it does (something repeatedconsistently thrughout the enitre game?). even when he compares it to "a child with a loaded gun".

If anything Shepard has always accepted whatever premise presented to him meekly and has then made only the choices that were made available within that premise.

[Jaulen]

Link to an excellently written review of how ME3 succeeded and failed. I like the near to last paragraph of why the 'critics' have been universally golden with ME3.

http://calitreview.com/24673

[Papa Kulakhov]

If the additional content does provide closure and amounts to differing endings that take into account the players choices throughout the trilogy. Please Bioware do yourself and the mass effect series justice and make it how it should of been. Then it will be remembered as one of the all time greats.

I and many other fans believe that you can do this!

Edit: Quoted from bbc news from a poster named Jason.
"Bioware should be PROUD, not hurt by their fan's reactions. They succeeded in doing something very few games ever do: make their audience feel and care. Even books and movies have an awful hard time achieving that these days, and the ones that do rarely do it at the level ME did. The game made people feel, and quite intensely. So intensely in fact, that most players are desperate for closure."

Link: 
http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-17458208 

Modifié par Papa Kulakhov, 22 mars 2012 - 02:26 .

[craigdolphin]

If games are art, then they are interactive art: unlike other forms of media. In a game like mass effect, the players' decisions shape the narrative within the framework established by the developers. so each game is authored by both Bioware and the player. An ending that only satisfies the artistic expression of one of the authors and completely disregards the authorship of the other is disrespectful to the other contributing author.

In short, in games where player choice is marketed as being central, you cannot expect to have sole artistic dibs on how the ending should be resolved. The ending should incorporate and acknodledge the choices made my players, or at least be responsive to them.

No offense but you forget that games are an entirely different form of media than books and movies and you need to update your ideas about artistic rights in that context.

Just a viewpoint

Modifié par craigdolphin, 22 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[legionaireshen]

so basically he means more dialog from starchild to clarified the color choice, maybe something about normandy later, still disappointing though, they should just scrap the child

[Swordfishtrombone]

Good blog post. Looking forward to seeing what Bioware comes up with.

I think that the problem with the endings was that they asked too much of the player's ability to suspend disbelief - especially the synthesis option felt like pure magic, in a universe where things are at least supposed to make a luke warm effort to remain within the realm of plausibility.

I don't know how to fix that without reworking the ending, but maybe Bioware will find a way, who knows?

[GuardianCameron]

Well, i personally think ME3 is AWESOME and is one of the best
game i've ever played.

The team making it did a great job and i completely agree with
Mr. Ray Muzyka saying it's the best game they've made so far.

Anyway, Bioware team's always seems to give their 100% while making
games and always care about players opinions.

And we like them like that.

Modifié par GuardianCameron, 22 mars 2012 - 02:15 .

[Amtorian]

I've been a fan of BioWare games for a long time - I was a modder of all the IE games. I had mods I worked on mentioned in gaming magazines. I have tremendous respect for Ray, and I was very happy to read his blog entry.

[Stealth3]

metawanderer wrote...

So..... any word yet on the face importing issue?

The last thing people give a **** about is face importing...

[CDHarrisUSF]

etgafford wrote...

1) I appreciated the moral ambiguity of the ending. You'd alluded on several occasions to the idea that the Reapers were, functionally, all that remained of every advanced species for at least many hundreds of thousands of years. I appreciate it that you didn't make it an easy, obviously "good" choice to kill all of them; that would've been a pretty morally horrific thing to say.

If they were trying to do that, they failed. They didn't make me care about the Reapers at all. It's pretty clear that BioWare knew it wouldn't work, too. Otherwise, they wouldn't have needed to take EDI and the Geth as hostages in order to make destroying the Reapers seem like a bad thing. It's yet another example of ham-fisted execution in the ending.

Modifié par CDHarrisUSF, 22 mars 2012 - 02:17 .

[ref]

GuardianCameron wrote...

Well, i personally think ME3 is AWESOME and is one of the best
game i've ever played.

The team making it did a great job and i completely agree with
Mr. Ray Muzyka saying it's the best game they've made so far.

Anyway, Bioware team's always seems to give their 100% while making
games and always care about players opinions.

And we like them like that.

Nobody's saying ME3 was bad, 99% of the people who hated the ending absolutely loved the rest.

[addiction21]

craigdolphin wrote...

In short, in games where player choice is marketed as being central, you cannot expect to have sole artistic dibs on how the ending should be resolved. The ending should incorporate and acknodledge the choices made my players, or at least be responsive to them.

No offense but you forget that games are an entirely different form of media than books and movies and you need to update your ideas about artistic rights in that context.

Just a viewpoint

I might be reading it wrong but here I go.

From Mass Effect we knew this fight was coming. We were told it would be a trilogy. At least for I was brought into a universe I enjoyed with characters I came to care about and then with the promise of closure we got ME3.

I reach the end and its nothing. THings happen en I cant make sense of it without breaking the story, setting, or how it plays out.

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

Good blog post. Looking forward to seeing what Bioware comes up with.

I think that the problem with the endings was that they asked too much of the player's ability to suspend disbelief - especially the synthesis option felt like pure magic, in a universe where things are at least supposed to make a luke warm effort to remain within the realm of plausibility.

I don't know how to fix that without reworking the ending, but maybe Bioware will find a way, who knows?

Good ole Swordfish.

Some where I read a review or maybe some blog about this ending and it mentions that old "show don't tell" There is not enough showing and there is way too much telling.

I am of the idea they need to "find a way" or rework it as you say. Make it work.

I allready did a default ME3 playthur on the roomates Xbox. Still working thru 2 Mass Effect playthrus (and ME2) plus one ME2 playthru

[Orez7]

As countless people already stated that taking into consideration the blatant false promises and hyping of expectations the Bioware has no option but to accept all the criticism and deal with it. No artistic integrity, humanization, surprise can excuse these actions. Once again they promised us everything and gave us nothing about the ending.



The other issue is the shear incompetence of the writers. How anyone could have thought that it was acceptable ending taking into consideration the ME spirit and just common sense in baffling. Most of Bioware employees who could have stopped it and didn't are guilty of this and are rightfully being calledincompetent, well some of them are being called liers, but that's a different story. 



Hold the line and be strong, cause that's what Shepard wold have done, my Shepard that is.

Modifié par Orez7, 22 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[Esquin]

I like how at the end he assumes that anyone who doesn't like the ending must not have played the game. Kind of a foolish assumption.

[ld1449]

Orez7 wrote...

As countless people already stated that taking into consideration the blatant false promises and hyping of expectations the Bioware has no option but to accept all the criticism and deal with it. No artistic integrity, humanization, surprise can excuse these actions. Once again they promised us everything and gave us nothing about the ending.



The other issue is the shear incompetence of the writers. How anyone could have thought that it was acceptable ending taking into consideration the ME spirit and just common sense in baffling. Most of Bioware employees who could have stopped it and didn't are guilty of this and are rightfully being calledincompetent, well some of them are being called liers, but that's a different story. 



Hold the line and be strong, cause that's what Shepard wold have done, my Shepard that is.

Dude I have to disagree with your opinion that the writers are incompetent, and its not right for you to simply make these assumptions. Neither you nor I enjoy it so far when the ending defenders or IGN painted us all with the same brush stroke. Calling us haters, whiners and entitled imbeciles among other things that have been less than kind.

You should not do the same.

Fact of the matter is we don't know WHAT happened on the ME team. Maybe they ran out of time. Maybe a good chunk of their writers had to leave for SW so they were understaffed, maybe the ending they originally had really was scrapped because of a leak and they had to try and write something up. Neither you nor I know the circumstances. And I'm certain that most, if not all the Bioware writing team knew just how bad it was but they just had to put it in there because there was no other choice.

To you and everyone else (and please remind ME if I ever forget) painting an entire group with a single brushstroke is wrong. Especially when there really is no conclusive evidence around the circumstances regarding corporate decisions that they had to make.