2054 réponses à ce sujet

[LucianVentris]

Don't change the ending. Stand by what you have created.

[Kaidan Fan]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Kaidan Fan wrote...

About paying for DLC to correct the ending: I would pay for it.  BioWare is a company afterall and it will cost them to make the dlc and I for one don't expect them to go in the hole to make dlc for me.  But, that is merely MY feelings on the matter.  In fact my son strongly disagrees with me and insists he will not buy it and wants it for free.  That is his opinion and he is entitled to it.  And I have mine and I'm entitled to it.   

This is why we need to be angry. People like you. You see proper endings as a favor Bioware would be doing for us. In reality they LIED about what the ending was going to be. They made the ending exactly what they said it WOULDN'T be, and were so lazy that they made all 3 endings the same but for different colored 'splosions. I don't care if they take a hit correcting their own mistakes and delivering the product they promised.

That's your opinion and you're more than welcome to rant all you like about it.  They gave us an extremely crappy ending that I hate and is nothing close to what the story was originally supposed to be, but there are people to be paid for doing a job and such and I don't expect said people who may or may not have contributed to the poor decisions of that horrible ending to work for free.  That is my opinion and you don't have to like it and I don't have to care one way or the other if you do or not.  

[ld1449]

BrotherWarth wrote...

TamiBx wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Our demeanor isn't going to garner us anything. The only influence we have is our money. And I have no faith in this community to not buy whatever DLC Bioware releases or pre-order whatever games they announce.

Unless it's a new ending, I'm not buying it. Gosh, I can't even play video games anymore without thinking how awful ME3 ended...

PAYING for the ending they promised would be THEM winning. How are people not getting that? If you give them EVEN MORE money just to deliver on their promises then you're not holding the line, you're being over it.

I would agree with you but you must also take this into account.

Bioware has lost money.

No correction, Bioware has lost a TON of money due to this fiasco, EA's stocks have taken a hit, investors and share holders are pulling back until all of this blows over and goes away or is resolved.

I would be angry at paying for an extra DLC ending and I will consider this when/if I ever consider buying a Bioware game again, but I cannot in good conscience risk these people making a massive DLC project (that would be unprecedented in scope if done properly) and not getting a single dime out of it to at least, "break even"

The writers and the publishers that pushed the games release arent gonna be the ones that pay for this and get fired. Its gonna be the low level people that have nothing to do with the corporate decisions to push a crappy game out.

So while I would never walk into a Gamestop and buy a brand new Bioware game again thinking its gonna be epic, neither will I sit here, pissed off and demand that they make it completely free knowing that most likely 30 to 100 people (depending on how big the company really is) are gonna get fired when they really had absolutely nothing to do with this ****up.

[InvincibleHero]

ld1449 wrote...

Sir...its not just that we didn't like the ending, though its a rather patchwork piece of...junk, from virtually every viewpoint that I can find. (I have yet to find a SINGLE person to explain to me just WHAT the ending has of merit)

Its also the simple fact that we were lied to. Casey Hudson has direct quotes stating "This will not be an A B or C ending" Which it was.

He also said "So many decisions of the previous games factor into your conclusion that no one Shepard is gonna have the exact same experience" Also a blatant lie.

He also said "There will be multiple distinct endings  ranging from good to bad"

All of this is false advertisement at best, fraud at worst. Because no one can look at these endings and tell me straight to my face that it fulfills any of these promises which are damn near direct quotes from him. It can't even be interpreted as such.

If he would have told us. "The Mass effect universe will have one ending" or The mass effect universe can end in one of three ways"

Then fine, you've been duly informed and buying the full price game is your risk.

But we were blatantly lied to, and this is where almost all art justification falls to the wayside in my eyes because no matter how immutable the artists "vision" should be (On a side note its practically confirmed that this was not the intended vision of the writer because he literally came up with it at the last second)  you can't tell me I'm getting the Mona Lisa, then you hand me Whistlers Mother (No offense intended to the quality of the painting or its painter) and expect me to be satisfied.

BW knows the answers and they are saying they will provide them given time.

As for the abc thing it is more than the first two games offered (only a binary a/b chocie in each game)and there are variations based on your readiness score. Different people live and die crew and non-crew and even races. So yes there is variation but perhaps not to your liking. Can't go further without spoilers.

[piratepetro]

A well constructed press release - doesn't mean they are going to do anything though. As to being "surprised by the fan reaction" - you're kidding right?
I don't care about 'closure' - I want to know my man is still standing, that there is a Shepherd somewhere out there fighting for all of us - what Bioware took away was the prospect of hope for our characters.
I've invested a lot of time and money into this series - enjoyed  the second game to the tune of 1100 or more hours and had FUN with it. This dismal, depressing, offering with an insufferable conclusion is not what most fans want.
I am not going into plotholes, forced multiplayer, face imports and bugs...surely Dr Ray, in his wildest dreams, doesn't think this is acceptable.
Let's hope that the pressure from the fan base is enough to assist in a change of mind....and soon!

[CDHarrisUSF]

slyborg wrote...

Art created for the sake of art (with no one paying you, therefore with no expectations) should never been changed

I don't entirely agree with that as a blanket statement. The distinction between when it should and should not be changed lies in the motivation behind changing it. Hypothetically speaking, let's say I'm writing a story just for the sake of doing so. I post it on the internet and people point out several things I hadn't considered. If this new information makes me realize that I legitimately botched the ending, I would see nothing wrong with then going back and writing a better ending for the purpose of improving the story. The question of artistic integrity only arises when you change the story against your better judgment solely (or at least primarily) to please others.

[Mixon]

GhostV9 wrote...

So yeah, they aren't changing anything. Just going to release some DLC to give you some "answers" like

"The Quarian Fleet lasted a total of 2 years before dying off trapped in the Sol System"
"The Turian Fleet lasted a total of 2 years before dying off trapped in the Sol System"
"The Normandy Crew were never heard from again and are trapped on unnamed planet forever"

I'm not buying any of this.

It's horrible!

[SeanThen1]

Thank you for listening to the valid complaints of your fanbase. I know that you have taken some heat over the decision to attempt to correct perceived flaws with the game and I wished to offer my continued support for your efforts. I've likely spent close to a thousand dollars on Bioware games and products and will continue to be a loyal customer due to the dedication you show to your craft as well as your willingness to go the extra mile.

Again, thank you.

[CaptainOrgia]

Orez7 wrote...

I acctually agree with you (buying new stuff) and I think it's very sad. I think is called "abused wife" syndrome or something like that, at the same time the rage is just going to hurt you I am afraid. Bioware should know that we are loyal and faithfull and loving, but someone told me that the line between love and hate is a very thin one.

I'm on your side but ME3's ending is not comparable to domestic violence, no matter how bad it is.


But I digress. Everything else I want to say has already been said. Pyewacket said it especially well. Everyone by this point has probably seen the google doc on the Logical Breakdown of why the ending makes no sense, but if you haven't it's also a good read. 

ETA:

These two quotes sum up why I'm frustrated about the ending. 

"There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…" - Mike Gamble, ME3 Lead Writer

"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C." - Casey Hudson 

ETA.2:

I feel like adding some things I enjoyed so it's not so negative.

- Music
- Voice acting (the Buzz Aldrin addition was neat)
- how your squad mates moved around the Normandy and on the Citadel. It was interesting to see squad mates interact
- combat changes
- MP
- seeing the home planets of a few of the main species
- frantically hitting "B" to make the husks stop giving me a shoulder massage of death
- the development of romances (except for the way romance with Thane was handled, from what I hear)
- same-sex romance options
- Mordin & Legion's plots
- Citadel changes
- the little, easily-missed references from ME1 and ME2

etc. 

Modifié par CaptainOrgia, 22 mars 2012 - 04:44 .

[ld1449]

InvincibleHero wrote...


BW knows the answers and they are saying they will provide them given time.

As for the abc thing it is more than the first two games offered (only a binary a/b chocie in each game)and there are variations based on your readiness score. Different people live and die crew and non-crew and even races. So yes there is variation but perhaps not to your liking. Can't go further without spoilers.

Not to the degree Casey led us to believe. Like I said, at best its false/misleading advertisement, at worst its fraud.

And they never promised that ME1 or ME2 would have wildly different endings. We didn't expect them to have wildly different endings as the introduction and midle point of a trilogy. The ending of ME3 was promised to have such branching conclusions to a wildly varrying degree and they've failed to deliver on virtually every front of those promises.

Modifié par ld1449, 22 mars 2012 - 04:29 .

[Major Swift]

ld1449 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...


BW knows the answers and they are saying they will provide them given time.

As for the abc thing it is more than the first two games offered (only a binary a/b chocie in each game)and there are variations based on your readiness score. Different people live and die crew and non-crew and even races. So yes there is variation but perhaps not to your liking. Can't go further without spoilers.

Not to the degree Casey led us to believe. Like I said, at best its false/misleading advertisement, at worst its fraud.

And they never promised that ME1 or ME2 would have wildly different endings. We didn't expect them to have wildly different endings as the introduction and midle point of a trilogy. The ending of ME3 was promised to have such branching conclusions to a wildly varrying degree and they've failed to deliver on virtually every front of those promises.

^this, it was said they would branch off wildly and said that you wouldnt be able to say you got a,b, or c as an ending but its obvious you can

[Ginnungagap]

In response to the open letter from Mr. Muzyka. I consider myself engaged in Mass Effect universe (I refuse to call myself a fan though) and I would like to leave a tidbit of feedback for the team regarding the biggest failures of Mass Effect 3 ending in my eyes. I like the indoctrination theories out there at this time, purely because they offer the best explanation of how bizzare and logically failed the last moments of the game feel.

Irregardless of the inabilty to steer Shepard's emotions linked to the boy killed on Earth and my own atttitudes towards western youth I believe a good start would be dealing with the child and it's failed "I'll save you by killing you with synthetics every 50.000 years so you don't get killed by synthetics" (hardly a spoiler btw, the notion is implied throughout the universe). This is the part that offends me the most because of it's logic.

As far as the decision making mechanics of the ending go, the biggest letdown was the uninspired use of three panels to decide what happens in the end (I understand a gameplay mechanic was needed for that but you could do better). Deus Ex Human Revolution used the same mechanic last year, killing the immersion during the final scenes (there, an AI asks the protagonist for a decision offering three computer terminal where using one featured with three software options would have been far more immersive, as it is the proverbial fourth wall stands badly broken). This as a decisions driving device would only make sense in Shepard's head as per the indoctrination theories out there, otherwise it lacks thought, I wish end game computer panels and derivatives were a thing of the past in all modern games, it's not the 90's anymore, let's move on.

What I liked though, is the abilty to have Shepard sruvive but at a cost. If I were him, I would have to conclude that I have enough to live for and I would likely pay the price to be able to come back to it, that was good (I'm saving the galaxy and I want to live to see what becomes of it, I got everyone working together where no one else could or would, damn right I'll sacrifice a species to live myself, I earned the right to that call by getting to where I am and if I make it, I'll be the one haunted by the decision).

Well I think that's it as far as my feedback goes. I'll avoid reading these forums from now on, like I avoided reading anything about the game before it came out (I knew there was controversies around the ending before I finished the game but I wanted to give it the benefit of the doubt so I made sure I didn't know what exactly was the fuss about) and see what happens next.

[Sett101]

classic art........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNRx5hc4gYc&feature=related

[evisneffo]

Dear Dr. Muzyka,

I'm reading a couple of misunderstandings in this statement.

First, liking the game as a whole and disliking the ending are not mutually exclusive viewpoints. On the contrary, enjoying the rest of the game is what makes a letdown ending more difficult to swallow.

Second, and this is more a matter of opinion, expanding on the existing ending is a nice thought but I believe that this ending is intrinsically flawed enough that the simplest solution won't go far for many of those raising concerns.

Thanks for listening.



Dear the rest of you,

Please calm down and try for some composure when posting.

-e.

Modifié par evisneffo, 22 mars 2012 - 04:34 .

[kkr]

As a faithful fan to bioware, and as a person who believes in the fact that mistakes and oversights are almost unavoidable on projects the scale of mass effect 3, I feel that it is crucial that i stand on both sides of the field with both the developers on one side and the fans on the other. (1) On the first side (the developers), I feel that it is in the end the developers who have the last words in the making of their creation, and that the fans should have respectfully and kindly requested additional endings instead of trying to violate a companies as well as individual free will by demanding ,with little to no respect at the behest of the fans for such a outstanding game series, they create new endings.(2) On the other side (the fans), I believe that the mass effect franchise is not a simple collaboration of games, but an individual experience for each and every gamer. For this reason, I believe that the fans are not as outraged as they seem, but confused, saddened, and believe it or not heartsick that the endings were what they were, very identical and spotted with uncertainty. The fans would love descent closure to multiple oversights in many different ways, whether it be to only correct the issue of the plot holes, insure more hope, or for those who are inclined to be stubborn and a little unrealistic (myself included) wanted an ending that had Shepard and his/her friends( including love interest) survive, go to a bar, get treated like the heroes they are and get blind drunk because of their victory over the reapers. I speak for all the fans, who will allow me to speak for them, when I say that as the fans who still respect the staff of bioware we ask bioware with all possible kindness of them to consider the idea of refined endings. Even if this ideology is not considered, I KeAaron Roberts, would like to thank any bioware staff member and fan for reading the perspectives of just one simple Mass Effect fan.

[T-Mack]

All of you complaining are really overestimating your power, your reach, and your numbers. You are the minority a very vocal minority. Bioware is under no pressure, financial or otherwise, to even bother to listen to a few thousand among millions. Mass Effect 3 has been a historically huge success, and all this complaining hasn't approached the bottom line in any sense. Any olive branch you are offered can only be seen as a care package to you for being customers. Even though you have been hurtful, reactionary, and ungrateful, they refuse to let you be unhappy without at least trying to assuage you, and yet still you persist in these petulant attacks posted in the very forum they provide for you. Pathetic. Bioware is a better company than you lot deserve, and I wouldn't blame them for abandoning the Mass Effect IP purely out of spite. Of course, they would never do that. They will look past all your entitled whining, pointless posturing, and gutless anonymous attacks and bullying and again provide you with a fresh multimedia experience that will redefine storytelling for future, hopefully better, generations. I applaud Bioware as always and wait for the next bit of fantasy wizardry; hopefully I'll never have to speak to you users again.

[Pyewacket]

T-Mack wrote...

All of you complaining are really overestimating your power, your reach, and your numbers. You are the minority a very vocal minority. Bioware is under no pressure, financial or otherwise, to even bother to listen to a few thousand among millions. Mass Effect 3 has been a historically huge success, and all this complaining hasn't approached the bottom line in any sense. Any olive branch you are offered can only be seen as a care package to you for being customers. Even though you have been hurtful, reactionary, and ungrateful, they refuse to let you be unhappy without at least trying to assuage you, and yet still you persist in these petulant attacks posted in the very forum they provide for you. Pathetic. Bioware is a better company than you lot deserve, and I wouldn't blame them for abandoning the Mass Effect IP purely out of spite. Of course, they would never do that. They will look past all your entitled whining, pointless posturing, and gutless anonymous attacks and bullying and again provide you with a fresh multimedia experience that will redefine storytelling for future, hopefully better, generations. I applaud Bioware as always and wait for the next bit of fantasy wizardry; hopefully I'll never have to speak to you users again.

Ungrateful?  Excuse me, but not once have I ever considered myself grateful to pay someone 70 dollars.  I'd be grateful if I got the game for FREE.  I don't owe them gratitude for taking my money.  Ridiculous.

[chrispy142]

You said you might be listening, and given that it's so easy to be 'loud' on the Internet I wanted to offer a possibly intelligent, civil opinion about ME3 as a whole.

It's awesome.  It's fantastic.  My daily routine was shattered thanks to this game and I'm still not over it.

I understand the decisions you made and the reasons why.  Every decision from interface to story to gameplay to multi-player all made the game better.  Multi-player in particular I was not in favor of when first announced.  But because XboxLive had a $1 a month deal I broke my vow to never play games online and the damnest thing happened: I had fun.  I couldn't put it down.  Granted, I'm not going to jump into Battlefield anytime soon, but ME3 multi-player was surprisingly fun, thus a smart addition.

There are technical hitches, but given the sheer immensity of the project they aren't surprising.  Two things consistently bothered me, and they both had to do with female Shepard.  The default appearance looks like a bobblehead.  I couldn't get past that no matter how much I tried.  And, her forearms were ridiculously long, which wasn't too noticeable until the end.

As for the ending...

I firmly support artistic integrity and believe nobody should apologize, or answer to, anyone for what they've created.  Especially fans.  So you won't hear demands from me or even complaints.  Nothing is worse than pouring your heart and soul into something you create and have people outright hate it.

I think the ending scene is brilliant (for a number of reasons not mentioned here) and I see why you did it.  The whole trilogy was about letting the player define their experience.  And you leave the story completely open-ended, giving us complete freedom to define what happens after.  You even said so yourself that's what you intended.  Kudos for success.  But that open-endedness was never expected before from the players.  We're used to open-optioned, not open-ended in Mass Effect.  So while I agree with it in theory, in practice the universe you created was too complex for me to even begin to want to sort out the aftermath (especially at 2 am ) and I'm probably not alone in this.

Buzz Aldrin: very cool, btw.

[addiction21]

BrotherWarth wrote...

And Shepard's struggle has always been about hope. Why wouldn't he latch onto what the Protheans saw as their last chance of saving themselves? Why wouldn't he do whatever it takes to save the galaxy?
The way the entire dialogue between Shepard and the God-child plays out is so poorly scripted and out of character. Shepard never questions ANYTHING he's told. You're given 3 lousy choices by the being who set these events in motion and just roll with it? Nonsense. Why wouldn't Shepard be hostile towards this little punk, or at least have the option? Why would Shepard accept causing the deaths of possibly billions of people just because he's told no matter what he does it's gonna be bad?

Yes it has always been about hope but nothing about prevailing unscared.

Well the first Mass Effect is only about delaying the inevitable for future cycles. Why would Shepard cling to hope untill ME3 where he is presented with the crucible in the second level?
Oh its poorly scripted but again this whole idea of how Shepard will question is silly. It is not out of character. It is not out of place.
Eden Prime. Horrible machines are coming to destroy everything and shepard runs with that.
TIM is altruistic. Lets run with him because that will not bite him in the ass even tho he is supposedly "helping humans". Not forgetting the many humans TIM has allready murdered.
Hey Shepard we just discovered this Deus Ex Machina device that should stop the Reapers that has been worked on for millions of years by coutless civilisations before us.
Shepard "lets hope we're not children with a loaded gun"

As desperate as you are Wrath. Shepard has done nothing but accept his premise and hope it works out for the best.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Dr. Muzyka, you are sorry that we gave bad feedback about ME3's ending, well, honestly, as a fan, I am sorry I had to give it. Truly, I am.

I won't go into details, because endings, or rather, the ending, has been dicussed to death at all levels of detail by lay and intellectual fans alike, but the current ending of the ME3 simply doesn't live up at all to the rest of the game, nor the rest of the series. Games are 'Art' yes, but the label "Art" is not a licence for Bad Taste, i.e.: a badly done piece of art is still a badly done piece of art. For example, crude profoundness or vulgarity does not, intrinsically make something good art. Games, and Mass Effect in particular, are a highly participative form of art, so it was not good bypass this principle and end the Mass Effect series, which was always a strong tale of hope with such a nihilistic note. The actual ending is vague, but from what we the players know from previous canon, we can only assume a bitter scenario in every ending.

Please recognize that we fans are not demanding overtly positive or needlessly patronizing endings, but accept that drastic changes / additions must be made to ME3's endings in order to do justice to the body of work that is the Mass Effect Series.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 22 mars 2012 - 04:41 .

[addiction21]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Bioware is part of a massive company. I will not pay for their mistakes and I will not feel sorry for them. 

You were preaching that same message with DA2.

Chicken Little

Boy that Cried Wolf

Look them up

[Mara Shep]

Is there an email for Ray Muzyka, or address? I feel the best way to get my response across would be to email him directly, and explain that while it is good he responded, we need more than just explanation. We need an ending that makes sense. By emailing him directly it may enter his head more.

Also, don't get angry. I understand anger needs to be vented, but staying calm gives us the upper hand, lets people see who we really are, and earns us respect.

[Mad-Max90]

I'm tired of people saying bioware is amazing because now they say they "will consider" maybe changing the ending...Look at gearbox, to me, they treat their fans the way they deserve. From the dlc that so much more to borderlands to the claptrap eulogy to a departed fan of borderlands, Gearbox has proven time and time again they are in it for their fans more than anything else

[InvincibleHero]

Mara Shep wrote...

Is there an email for Ray Muzyka, or address? I feel the best way to get my response across would be to email him directly, and explain that while it is good he responded, we need more than just explanation. We need an ending that makes sense. By emailing him directly it may enter his head more.

Also, don't get angry. I understand anger needs to be vented, but staying calm gives us the upper hand, lets people see who we really are, and earns us respect.

Why do you feel an explanation from the people that wrote the game a cannot make sense of what they already provided?