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To Mass Effect 3 players, from Dr. Ray Muzyka, co-founder of BioWare


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#1076
Missy_MI

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From Dr. Muzka's blog:
"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received."

Thank you.  Based on years of really amazing experiences from BioWare games (including most of ME3), I'm going to have faith and take those statements at face value.

No matter how much hard work is done concerning the endings, there will always be some fans who end up disappointed.  But please know that there are a lot of us out there who very much appreciate the effort going on right now.  I fully believe that the same team who handled the genophage, geth/quarian war, and freaking Conrad Verner with such care can pull the feedback from both sides of this issue and come up with a way to bridge the gap.

Good luck!  Looking forward to more news in April.

Modifié par Missy_MI, 22 mars 2012 - 04:58 .


#1077
MetalCargo999

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In reading Dr. Muzyka's blog, I realized that I felt convicted for having insulted the developers by calling their ending unintelligent, even though the reality was that I had a subjective disagreement on how it should end, and no insults were necessary or deserved. Because I said this publically, I feel I must apologize publically as well. So... I'm sincerely sorry. I appreciate the hard work you put in the game, and loved absolutely everything up until the ending. That's something to be thankful for!

Sorry

#1078
Kami102

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Mad-Max90 wrote...

I'm tired of people saying bioware is amazing because now they say they "will consider" maybe changing the ending...Look at gearbox, to me, they treat their fans the way they deserve. From the dlc that so much more to borderlands to the claptrap eulogy to a departed fan of borderlands, Gearbox has proven time and time again they are in it for their fans more than anything else



Ehh... Gearbox..

I'm a huge Brothers In Arms fan. Absolutely loved Road to Hill 30, Earned in Blood and Hell's Highway







Then I saw Furious 4.  :sick:

#1079
Orez7

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The biggest proof of how bad the ending is that even Bioware needs at least a month to explain it :). I mean they would have posted something about the great motives and the questions in regards the ending by now, but nothing. They just can't explain the big plot holes, so they are hiding behind "art". This fact by itself shows what a farce the ending is.

Hold the line!!!!!!!! because that abomination (the ending) can't be accepted.

#1080
Orez7

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MetalCargo999 wrote...

In reading Dr. Muzyka's blog, I realized that I felt convicted for having insulted the developers by calling their ending unintelligent, even though the reality was that I had a subjective disagreement on how it should end, and no insults were necessary or deserved. Because I said this publically, I feel I must apologize publically as well. So... I'm sincerely sorry. I appreciate the hard work you put in the game, and loved absolutely everything up until the ending. That's something to be thankful for!

Sorry


You don't need to apologise for telling the truth friend.

#1081
InvincibleHero

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Orez7 wrote...

The biggest proof of how bad the ending is that even Bioware needs at least a month to explain it :). I mean they would have posted something about the great motives and the questions in regards the ending by now, but nothing. They just can't explain the big plot holes, so they are hiding behind "art". This fact by itself shows what a farce the ending is.

Hold the line!!!!!!!! because that abomination (the ending) can't be accepted.

I am sure it has more to do with being careful about letting the cat out of the bag about their future projects since the uproar has upset their schedule.

#1082
Rabid Rooster

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 I am sorry, but we don't need the endings "explained" to us. They are just so far left field of the story and choices made in ME 1 & 2. Anything short of new endings that are in line with the story and choices of ME 1 & 2 will not cut it.

#1083
Atalanta

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LucianVentris wrote...

Don't change the ending. Stand by what you have created.


How does it affect you if BioWare adds (free or paid-for) DLC to clarify/extend the ending? It will make many people happy and you don't have to play the new content if it offends you so much.

Modifié par Atalanta, 22 mars 2012 - 05:27 .


#1084
Soul Spector

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Yes I like the series, but would I recommend it to friends after completing ME3, NO.

#1085
Iakus

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Eh, I'll decide whether to be happy or not when what's being done is actually unveiled. Maybeit's a fix. Maybe it's a bandaid.

Though it's stilll bemusing that there was suprise at the reaction to the ending. I knew as soon as I heard them that fans would rage.

#1086
Mr. Gogeta34

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They still are not listening about the ending's numerous plot holes...

#1087
Nepp

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Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

They still are not listening about the ending's numerous plot holes...


Cause we're all wrong and don't get their "art" :P

#1088
Artemis_Entrari

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Atalanta wrote...

LucianVentris wrote...

Don't change the ending. Stand by what you have created.


How does it affect you if BioWare adds (free or paid-for) DLC to clarify/extend the ending? It will make many people happy and you don't have to play the new content if it offends you so much.


This is the part I don't understand about those saying "don't do a thing, BioWare!".  If folks like the current ending, they can simply NOT download the DLC and thus, their games end as it currently stands.

It's like bemoaning the fact that Arrival DLC was released after the end of ME2.  If you truly don't want any game content after you end ME2, you simply don't download Arrival.  Just like if you're currently happy with the end of ME3, don't download any DLC that may change the current ending that you enjoy.

#1089
Mixon

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Artemis_Entrari wrote...

Atalanta wrote...

LucianVentris wrote...

Don't change the ending. Stand by what you have created.


How does it affect you if BioWare adds (free or paid-for) DLC to clarify/extend the ending? It will make many people happy and you don't have to play the new content if it offends you so much.


This is the part I don't understand about those saying "don't do a thing, BioWare!".  If folks like the current ending, they can simply NOT download the DLC and thus, their games end as it currently stands.

It's like bemoaning the fact that Arrival DLC was released after the end of ME2.  If you truly don't want any game content after you end ME2, you simply don't download Arrival.  Just like if you're currently happy with the end of ME3, don't download any DLC that may change the current ending that you enjoy.


Agree, so thos who liked the ending will have choise any way. Now it's our turn to have it.

#1090
Mr. Gogeta34

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Nepp wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

They still are not listening about the ending's numerous plot holes...


Cause we're all wrong and don't get their "art" :P


Speculation from everyone.Posted Image

#1091
Orez7

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InvincibleHero wrote...

Orez7 wrote...

The biggest proof of how bad the ending is that even Bioware needs at least a month to explain it :). I mean they would have posted something about the great motives and the questions in regards the ending by now, but nothing. They just can't explain the big plot holes, so they are hiding behind "art". This fact by itself shows what a farce the ending is.

Hold the line!!!!!!!! because that abomination (the ending) can't be accepted.

I am sure it has more to do with being careful about letting the cat out of the bag about their future projects since the uproar has upset their schedule.



I see so keeping the "cat in the bag" is their solution to the uproar, which can be at least mitigated if the "cat is out of the bag". You know, with that logic of yours I am not surprised that you acctually enjoyed the ending, I am not sure if I would want to have your logic though, I have a feeling it will screw me up further in life.


Hold the line cause I want blue babies

#1092
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

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Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Nepp wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

They still are not listening about the ending's numerous plot holes...


Cause we're all wrong and don't get their "art" :P


Speculation from everyone.Posted Image

I'm guessing that's post-Mass Effect 3's release date version of "pre-order cancelled". 

#1093
Sett101

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Artemis_Entrari wrote...

Atalanta wrote...

LucianVentris wrote...

Don't change the ending. Stand by what you have created.


How does it affect you if BioWare adds (free or paid-for) DLC to clarify/extend the ending? It will make many people happy and you don't have to play the new content if it offends you so much.


This is the part I don't understand about those saying "don't do a thing, BioWare!".  If folks like the current ending, they can simply NOT download the DLC and thus, their games end as it currently stands.

It's like bemoaning the fact that Arrival DLC was released after the end of ME2.  If you truly don't want any game content after you end ME2, you simply don't download Arrival.  Just like if you're currently happy with the end of ME3, don't download any DLC that may change the current ending that you enjoy.


There are always "those" guys. There were a few on the Beth forums for skyrim before patch 3.1 (fixed the game to be playable at all on PS3) saying "It's perfect don't change anything, some people are just whiners who hate the game". Somehow a few people came to believe they will get some kind of special cookie from BiowarEA or something if they are good.

#1094
AzaggThoth

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Dr. Muzyka

The trust of a customer is a tricky thing. And I am afraid in the case of Mass Effect 3, a great many customers have already lost the willingess to trust BioWare for the time being. Your advertising campains and developer interviews given just days before launch made some fairly definitive claims reguarding depth and bredth in the variety of end game senarios. And not delivering a product able to meet these claims has resulted in a break in trust. Bioware, as a creative team, trying to sell a consumer product must EARN that trust back by producing a product able to live up to the advertising.

I am sorry to tell you this Sir. A simple attempt to "explain" the ending will simply not be enough. To paraphrase a fitting line from the origional game in the franchise, the ending sequence is itself one large 'sour yellow note'. The entire ending sequence from the arrival at earth is a horrendusly disjointed mixture of good and bad and seems to activly be trying to insult the intelligence of your audience and customers. The strongest elements being the interaction with the crew, though the blank slate zero action area breaks immersion itself.

I think maybe that some of your creative team may have forgotten that you are producing an M rated game in the genra of science fiction, appealing to a very broad audience age range. The Mass Effect franchise has not 'talked down' to us before, never tried to treat us like we needed to be lead along by the hand. The end sequence on earth however starts to do just that, and frankly it began ot get insulting. It was not that nobody 'got it', nobody wanted it. It was not the same story we had been takeing part in up till that point. We do not want something that needs to be explained. If a work needs to be explained to the intended audience, it is the fault of the writer not the audience. I beleive the situation can best be remedied if some words from the great Isaac Asimov were thought over...

"I made up my mind long ago to follow one cardinal rule in all my writing — to be clear. I have given up all thought of writing poetically or symbolically or experimentally, or in any of the other modes that might (if I were good enough) get me a Pulitzer prize. I would write merely clearly and in this way establish a warm relationship between myself and my readers, and the professional critics — Well, they can do whatever they wish."


Clear and logical progression within the confines of the world, leading to a satisfying array of choices that take into account  past actions and decisions. These should lead to a logical but satisfying, emotional as well as intilectual, array of end game senarios. These senarios should lead to an epilogue, allowing for a full sense of closure and catharsis. All of this can be done without having to rely on cliche cliffhanger nonsense.

Frankly, now it is up to BioWare to try and earn back the trust of it's customers by doing the proper thing and living up to it's advertising and talent potential. For myself as a long time customer and several I know personally, this is a last chance to do so. And honestly if this is pulled off properly the game won't need to beg people to buy DLC after the end credits.

Modifié par AzaggThoth, 22 mars 2012 - 11:26 .


#1095
Cyr8

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Do you know what all this basically just boils down to? Bioware was ACTUALLY satisfied with their ending and if there was no outcry would have gone directly into ME4 with this ****ty ending. And they are genuinely surprised that people hated this ending. Which means that the indoctrination theory, while a nice hopeful theory, is out. So either they steal the theory and make it part of the game, or they begin to RETCON the whole game, finding a way to explain how Joker, EDI, and the rest of the gang survived when supposedly a mass relay explosion is supposed to destroy the whole damn star system it's in.

#1096
Bawseee

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Another statement basically saying F you, we are doing things our way, either you accept it or you don't.

Seems like a giant slap in the face to me.

#1097
InvincibleHero

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Orez7 wrote...

I see so keeping the "cat in the bag" is their solution to the uproar, which can be at least mitigated if the "cat is out of the bag". You know, with that logic of yours I am not surprised that you acctually enjoyed the ending, I am not sure if I would want to have your logic though, I have a feeling it will screw me up further in life.


Hold the line cause I want blue babies

No. They thought the ending was fine and they set up their releases such as ME 4 or whatever title for the future. Obviously they do not want to spoil the changes from ME 3 to that game or even DLCs to come out. After all it would be like them saying all your questions to ME2 we are going to answer them before we give you the game 1 week after ME was released. Would you buy the game if it was entirely spoiled for you? They have millions of dollars riding on their decisions so their caution is understandable. 

I accept the endings and have heard about every detail of them and do look forwards to playing the game when I can afford it.
BTW thanks for the veiled insult. Posted Image Do so again I will report you; your freebie is used. My patience is at an end with people and their personal attacks. Be civil I didn't insult you.

#1098
Nepp

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Bawseee wrote...

Another statement basically saying F you, we are doing things our way, either you accept it or you don't.

Seems like a giant slap in the face to me.


They've been slapping me in the face since Dragon Age 2 was released. Then it was the middle finger and laughing for ME3.

#1099
BenjaminR00

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dointime85 wrote...

I appreciate what he has to say, seriously, seems like they are serious about an ending dlc, but oh how I also wish that for once, you'd get the impression that the responsible persons would deviate from streamlined PR-speak, saying things like "hey you know what, you're right, there are an awful lot of plotholes" or "we thought the ending was a good idea, but before we created it, we made quite a few false promises".



That's central to people's frustration which nobody at EA/BioWare seems to get. People abhor Press Releases - the only people who like them are the press for whom PR is an easy way of having a story to print/publish.

So it is a failure to keep talking in the same crappy way. This is not a destructive comment, it's an instructive comment. Just cut the crap and the padding out of your dialogue with your customers and loyal base. It doesn't work.

But once this DLC comes out I will consider going back to playing ME3 again.

MORE IMPORTANTLY:

Underneath all of the vitriol and the detail, really, what really pisses people off, is that everyone knows if you just brought one qualified outsider - just one - who didn't have to drink the Kool-Aid ("Got Indoctrination", anyone?) into your circle as a consultant who got to play the game and give you serious feedback of how to shift the narrative and what to add to the story in order to knock the finished game out of the park - if you even brought just one outsider in to do that and actually followed his instructions, then you could have had the perfect game you believe you put out. But you didn't. And that was a massive mistake. Deadlines be damned if you actually want to make something good.

I am a practicing artist. I have an MFA from a very prestegious international art school. I am much more qualified to talk about Art than Mr. Hudson or anyone at EA or BioWare, so in response to any plebs out there who are comparing this with Art and the rights of the author, let me point out that when I buy a painting or any other artwork I get to see it before I pony up my money for it.
BioWare didn't do this, they told us it was going to be "X+Y+Z" and instead it was just "X+a big stupid RGB splotch on it that ruins the painting". Now, if that was what they showed us and we paid for it we have no right to complain afterwards - instead BW showed us the demo in February and we told them in no uncertain terms what was crap about it - sure, it wasn't the combat or multiplayer - which is ace - but that's not the main reason we are buying Mass Effect 3 - the combat/multiplayer is like saying you used really expensive paints to make the picture - that is great, but it's not why we are buying the painting is it? But whoops it was too late to change anything then!

And ultimately this is why everyone is giving you 'feedback' now even though they know in reality it means nothing, because you should have seen the problem and fixed the problem before now and you broke with our good faith. It's as simple as that, those are the psychological and emotional dynamics at play in these forums, as nutty and 'first world' as it is. There is something underneath all the pages and pages of complaints and if you step back it is entirely reasonable from either the "Art" perspective or not. We paid for the game that you promised, and got something else. Want to compare this with Art, and comissioning Art? Because that would be justifiable grounds for a law suit. So when everyone complains that people on here are nuts, and the 'false advertising' thing is out of proportion (and I agree, it is just a game) - that is irrelevant because it is BioWare that has opened the door to this argument, and once again with the Doctor's press release when he called it Art.

So enough of the bashing of people on this forum, yes it is a bunch of yelling ultimately but what is underneath what they are saying is reasonable and pertinent. Bottom line they wouldn't keep yelling if BioWare actually got into a proper, honest dialogue about this. Unfortunately I think for very understandable reasons BioWare/EA cannot do that because if they do it will hurt sales. So on the flip side it's time for us to get realistic and accept that people only talk about these issues honestly about screwing up a product (or not) and their regrets (or not) until wayyyy after release. Just the time cycles for us to complain compared to that are weird for people like us and even harder for us to accept it. The only way people come out and apologise for a movie sucking quickly is when it is a total flop at the box office and ME3 is not a total financial flop, nor a total flop of a game... it's just a total flop as a totality, a total flop as an Art "work".

#1100
MaleQuariansFTW

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Thank you Ray for the reply, but I can't help but get the feeling from the text (and of course I may totally be wrong since you can't detect tone in text) that BioWare really thinks the ending was great and that we're a bunch of whiners.

It's unfortunate that I have this feeling, probably because of all the tension and negative accusations from numerous websites. Again, I may and probably am wrong and I'm not trying to start anything. Just giving my observations.

I have hope that good will come out of all this chaos, I just hope it's not the arrival of the Reapers :P

Hold the line friends.