2054 réponses à ce sujet

[Rabid Rooster]

Well said AzaggThoth.

[Dethead123]

Cyr8 wrote...

Do you know what all this basically just boils down to? Bioware was ACTUALLY satisfied with their ending and if there was no outcry would have gone directly into ME4 with this ****ty ending.

Well technically ME was supposed to end as a trilogy there wasn't any plans to make more then 3. I'm sure now that Bioware is teamed up with EA that is a different story.

[Orez7]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Orez7 wrote...

I see so keeping the "cat in the bag" is their solution to the uproar, which can be at least mitigated if the "cat is out of the bag". You know, with that logic of yours I am not surprised that you acctually enjoyed the ending, I am not sure if I would want to have your logic though, I have a feeling it will screw me up further in life.


Hold the line cause I want blue babies

No. They thought the ending was fine and they set up their releases such as ME 4 or whatever title for the future. Obviously they do not want to spoil the changes from ME 3 to that game or even DLCs to come out. After all it would be like them saying all your questions to ME2 we are going to answer them before we give you the game 1 week after ME was released. Would you buy the game if it was entirely spoiled for you? They have millions of dollars riding on their decisions so their caution is understandable. 

I accept the endings and have heard about every detail of them and do look forwards to playing the game when I can afford it.
BTW thanks for the veiled insult.  Do so again I will report you; your freebie is used. My patience is at an end with people and their personal attacks. Be civil I didn't insult you.

Your arguement is just a paragraph of baseless speculation and daydreaming. What ME4? This was supposed to be the end. Where is the ending that we were promised? Do I need to by a DLC for it? Do I need to buy a DLC to just understand the ending? Why my understanding and enjoying the current game is contingent for future DLC-s. Everyone who defends that ending uses arguements like yours: baselss speculations or hiding behind the "art". You want to discuss don't speculate just answer my questions. It has been two weeks and Bioware has been saying how they listening, how they are surprised, how we are a minority, how they are human and we hurt their feelings. What about our feelings ? What about all of their promises and their betrayel. Just go and read and see what Bioware promised us and what we got from them.

[Mixon]

Why nobody noticed that Mass Effect 3 got lower metascore than Mass Effect 2?

[IST]

Thanks Ray - Your fans applaud, I am toasting you (albeit to myself.. lol) - *sips Whisky*

[InvincibleHero]

Orez7 wrote...

Your arguement is just a paragraph of baseless speculation and daydreaming. What ME4? This was supposed to be the end. Where is the ending that we were promised? Do I need to by a DLC for it? Do I need to buy a DLC to just understand the ending? Why my understanding and enjoying the current game is contingent for future DLC-s. Everyone who defends that ending uses arguements like yours: baselss speculations or hiding behind the "art". You want to discuss don't speculate just answer my questions. It has been two weeks and Bioware has been saying how they listening, how they are surprised, how we are a minority, how they are human and we hurt their feelings. What about our feelings ? What about all of their promises and their betrayel. Just go and read and see what Bioware promised us and what we got from them.

They have already announced several places there will be games set in the ME universe. I don't have the answers you are looking for and you'll have to wait for BW to release them on their timetable.

I hope it would be a free explanation so everyone could partake of it. I doubt DLC will be free. Maybe there will be a crew and castaways DLC here on Shepard's Island that explains how they make it. Who knows but BW.

I don't believe they betrayed anyone much less outright lied. Obviously, any producer of any product talks of what they make in positive terms. Being extremely literal will not get you anywhere. They offered variety with 3 endings like them or not there are also variations in the run up to the end choice. Maybe you don't see the happy ending but BW thought it was one. It is opinion and some people obviously are fine with it and we know BW's stance.

People are taking the ending far too seriously and out of perspective. Yeah maybe you hate it but it only has as much hold over you as you let it.

What is the ending you expected BW to give you?

[Peranor]

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

Atalanta wrote...

LucianVentris wrote...

Don't change the ending. Stand by what you have created.

How does it affect you if BioWare adds (free or paid-for) DLC to clarify/extend the ending? It will make many people happy and you don't have to play the new content if it offends you so much.

This is the part I don't understand about those saying "don't do a thing, BioWare!".  If folks like the current ending, they can simply NOT download the DLC and thus, their games end as it currently stands.

It's like bemoaning the fact that Arrival DLC was released after the end of ME2.  If you truly don't want any game content after you end ME2, you simply don't download Arrival.  Just like if you're currently happy with the end of ME3, don't download any DLC that may change the current ending that you enjoy.

So true.
And I actually don't want them to remove the current endings from the game. Just continue them, or rather add more of them. That way everyone can be happy.

Modifié par anorling, 22 mars 2012 - 06:54 .

[RedrDog 2]

First of all let Me say that I really love Bioware and You're games, I've been a huge fan since I first played KOTOR, after that I was hooked and looked for more of you're games, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Balders Gate 1/2 and Dragon Age, Just to name a few.

I fallowed Mass Effect right from the first Screenshot and never looked back I've read and heard many times how you don't just want to make games that People play, You want to tell great story's with Character's that the player grows to care about. The real reason its been so heated about the ending is that you've done it, We care.

I Know I can speak for everyone at Bioware and both the fans that liked the ending as is and the ones that were left wanting "more from it" (Myself included). That We truly love Mass Effect and want it to be the best game series that it can be.

And I just wanted to take the time to thank everyone at Bioware, not just for making games but for telling Me story's, For making Me laugh (And in ME3) For making Me cry, For giving Us great  Character's in all of you're games, For making Me want to play for more than just killing things to get to the next map.

Thank You for making Me Care.

P.S. When I say "Making Me cry" I'm not talking about the ending.

[Funker Shepard]

anorling wrote...

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

Atalanta wrote...

LucianVentris wrote...

Don't change the ending. Stand by what you have created.

How does it affect you if BioWare adds (free or paid-for) DLC to clarify/extend the ending? It will make many people happy and you don't have to play the new content if it offends you so much.

This is the part I don't understand about those saying "don't do a thing, BioWare!".  If folks like the current ending, they can simply NOT download the DLC and thus, their games end as it currently stands.

It's like bemoaning the fact that Arrival DLC was released after the end of ME2.  If you truly don't want any game content after you end ME2, you simply don't download Arrival.  Just like if you're currently happy with the end of ME3, don't download any DLC that may change the current ending that you enjoy.

So true.
And I actually don't want them to remove the current endings from the game. Just continue them, or rather add more of them. That way everyone can be happy.

Wanted to chip in on this, as well. The Fallout 3: Broken Steel approach is clearly the best one here, as it provides people with options - either to keep it as it is, or evolve. With Grand-Pappy in the end, it's not like spinning another version of the ending would be unthinkable in the context, either.

p.s. This is of course just my personal opinion, but I still don't feel the ending is up to the game's or Bioware's usual (extremely high) standard. If there's any similar sentiment on the part of Bioware, taking another look at it is infinitely preferrable to "standing by it".

[Autolychus]

AzaggThoth wrote...

Clear and logical progression within the confines of the world, leading to a satisfying array of choices that take into account  past actions and decisions. These should lead to a logical but satisfying, emotional as well as intilectual, array of end game senarios. These senarios should lead to an epilogue, allowing for a full sense of closure and catharsis. All of this can be done without having to rely on cliche cliffhanger nonsense.

I think that sums nicely what the ending of ME3 should have been.

[Iconoclaste]

InvincibleHero wrote...

I accept the endings and have heard about every detail of them and do look forwards to playing the game when I can afford it.

That is something... I noticed on other threads how some players criticized the uproar about the endings, without having even played the game. What is the point in this attitude? I almost find this "patronizing", as if the legitimate opinions about the endings were but childish ranting, based on what you READ on the forum, and not on what you FELT about the experience of going through these actual endings yourself. Respectfully, may I suggest that you get a taste of this by yourself to have better grounds on which to stand in order to discuss the matter?

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 22 mars 2012 - 07:14 .

[Autolychus]

Nepp wrote...

Bawseee wrote...

Another statement basically saying F you, we are doing things our way, either you accept it or you don't.

Seems like a giant slap in the face to me.

They've been slapping me in the face since Dragon Age 2 was released. Then it was the middle finger and laughing for ME3.

Y'all seem to have a different definition of "constructive comment" than I have.

[Orez7]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Orez7 wrote...

They have already announced several places there will be games set in the ME universe. I don't have the answers you are looking for and you'll have to wait for BW to release them on their timetable.

I hope it would be a free explanation so everyone could partake of it. I doubt DLC will be free. Maybe there will be a crew and castaways DLC here on Shepard's Island that explains how they make it. Who knows but BW.

I don't believe they betrayed anyone much less outright lied. Obviously, any producer of any product talks of what they make in positive terms. Being extremely literal will not get you anywhere. They offered variety with 3 endings like them or not there are also variations in the run up to the end choice. Maybe you don't see the happy ending but BW thought it was one. It is opinion and some people obviously are fine with it and we know BW's stance.

People are taking the ending far too seriously and out of perspective. Yeah maybe you hate it but it only has as much hold over you as you let it.

What is the ending you expected BW to give you?

I asked you not to speculate and you still did, but whatever. I wanted for the things to matter, I wanted my choices to matter. DA O ending would have been completly fine. Major plot holes, space magic and complete betrayel of characters is not fine. We can't discuss much cause of no spoilers...I honestly didn't need much, I am not even that hardcore of a fan, but they did messed up a great story and now we need to fight for it to be corrected. Funny thing is that I think that if they just put a text which would have clarified what happens to everything, the uproar wouldn't have been this bad, just a simple text would have done the trick.


Hold the LIne and stay strong

Modifié par Orez7, 22 mars 2012 - 07:10 .

[Well]

delete

Modifié par Well, 22 mars 2012 - 07:17 .

[Well]

AzaggThoth wrote...

Dr. Muzyka

The trust of a customer is a tricky thing. And I am afraid in the case of Mass Effect 3, a great many customers have already lost the willingess to trust BioWare for the time being. Your advertising campains and developer interviews given just days before launch made some fairly definitive claims reguarding depth and bredth in the variety of end game senarios. And not delivering a product able to meet these claims has resulted in a break in trust. Bioware, as a creative team, trying to sell a consumer product must EARN that trust back by producing a product able to live up to the advertising.

I am sorry to tell you this Sir. A simple attempt to "explain" the ending will simply not be enough. To paraphrase a fitting line from the origional game in the franchise, the ending sequence is itself one large 'sour yellow note'. The entire ending sequence from the arrival at earth is a horrendusly disjointed mixture of good and bad and seems to activly be trying to insult the intelligence of your audience and customers. The strongest elements being the interaction with the crew, though the blank slate zero action area breaks immersion itself.

I think maybe that some of your creative team may have forgotten that you are producing an M rated game in the genra of science fiction, appealing to a very broad audience age range. The Mass Effect franchise has not 'talked down' to us before, never tried to treat us like we needed to be lead along by the hand. The end sequence on earth however starts to do just that, and frankly it began ot get insulting. It was not that nobody 'got it', nobody wanted it. It was not the same story we had been takeing part in up till that point. We do not want something that needs to be explained. If a work needs to be explained to the intended audience, it is the fault of the writer not the audience. I beleive the situation can best be remedied if some words from the great Isaac Asimov were thought over...

"I made up my mind long ago to follow one cardinal rule in all my writing — to be clear. I have given up all thought of writing poetically or symbolically or experimentally, or in any of the other modes that might (if I were good enough) get me a Pulitzer prize. I would write merely clearly and in this way establish a warm relationship between myself and my readers, and the professional critics — Well, they can do whatever they wish."

Clear and logical progression within the confines of the world, leading to a satisfying array of choices that take into account  past actions and decisions. These should lead to a logical but satisfying, emotional as well as intilectual, array of end game senarios. These senarios should lead to an epilogue, allowing for a full sense of closure and catharsis. All of this can be done without having to rely on cliche cliffhanger nonsense.

Frankly, now it is up to BioWare to try and earn back the trust of it's customers by doing the proper thing and living up to it's advertising and talent potential. For myself as a long time customer and several I know personally, this is a last chance to do so. And honestly if this is pulled off properly the game won't need to beg people to buy DLC after the end credits.

Awesome post.

[Mixon]

Dear Bioware, please watch this video about Reapers Indoctrination, it's best idea ever.

[BenjaminR00]

Well wrote...

AzaggThoth wrote...

Dr. Muzyka

The trust of a customer is a tricky thing. And I am afraid in the case of Mass Effect 3, a great many customers have already lost the willingess to trust BioWare for the time being. Your advertising campains and developer interviews given just days before launch made some fairly definitive claims reguarding depth and bredth in the variety of end game senarios. And not delivering a product able to meet these claims has resulted in a break in trust. Bioware, as a creative team, trying to sell a consumer product must EARN that trust back by producing a product able to live up to the advertising.

I am sorry to tell you this Sir. A simple attempt to "explain" the ending will simply not be enough. To paraphrase a fitting line from the origional game in the franchise, the ending sequence is itself one large 'sour yellow note'. The entire ending sequence from the arrival at earth is a horrendusly disjointed mixture of good and bad and seems to activly be trying to insult the intelligence of your audience and customers. The strongest elements being the interaction with the crew, though the blank slate zero action area breaks immersion itself.

I think maybe that some of your creative team may have forgotten that you are producing an M rated game in the genra of science fiction, appealing to a very broad audience age range. The Mass Effect franchise has not 'talked down' to us before, never tried to treat us like we needed to be lead along by the hand. The end sequence on earth however starts to do just that, and frankly it began ot get insulting. It was not that nobody 'got it', nobody wanted it. It was not the same story we had been takeing part in up till that point. We do not want something that needs to be explained. If a work needs to be explained to the intended audience, it is the fault of the writer not the audience. I beleive the situation can best be remedied if some words from the great Isaac Asimov were thought over...

"I made up my mind long ago to follow one cardinal rule in all my writing — to be clear. I have given up all thought of writing poetically or symbolically or experimentally, or in any of the other modes that might (if I were good enough) get me a Pulitzer prize. I would write merely clearly and in this way establish a warm relationship between myself and my readers, and the professional critics — Well, they can do whatever they wish."

Clear and logical progression within the confines of the world, leading to a satisfying array of choices that take into account  past actions and decisions. These should lead to a logical but satisfying, emotional as well as intilectual, array of end game senarios. These senarios should lead to an epilogue, allowing for a full sense of closure and catharsis. All of this can be done without having to rely on cliche cliffhanger nonsense.

Frankly, now it is up to BioWare to try and earn back the trust of it's customers by doing the proper thing and living up to it's advertising and talent potential. For myself as a long time customer and several I know personally, this is a last chance to do so. And honestly if this is pulled off properly the game won't need to beg people to buy DLC after the end credits.

Awesome post.

Yep. Thoughtful, concise, and correct.

[Evenjelith]

Firstly, I’d like to express my appreciation to Ray for his public acknowledgment of the
fan concern about the ending. A statement from Bioware’s co-founder is a clear
sign that community concerns surrounding the ending of one of the BEST games I’ve
ever played are being actively discussed.

I am surprised however in reading your response that you did not anticipate the
kind of response the ending has generated. Whilst some on this forum have tried
to paint the ‘Retake Mass Effect’ movement  as being upset that a so called ‘happy’ ending
wasn’t made available; to me the real issue as you’ve acknowledged is a
complete lack of closure; not to mention the confusion the ending causes. With
squad-mates teleporting across the galaxy etc... at some point during the
development process someone must have red flagged at least some of the inconsistencies
the fans have found so baffling.

It’s not that I didn’t want or didn’t expect a sad ‘bitter-sweet’ ending. In
fact some of my favourite movies/games end that way. The problem I feel with
the ending to ME3 is that I don’t understand how we get into the situation we
find ourselves in. Sheppard mandated sacrifice is so confusing that I find
myself unable to appreciate it as you no doubt intended. I’m all for sacrifice
but I only had a very tenuous grasp on what was happening in the last 5-10
minutes of the game. Nothing I’d experienced up until that point prepared me
for the lore shift the game seemed to take in order to wrap up the saga. My
choices from previous games didn’t seem to matter beyond who survived the
previous instalments; in fact I’m not even sure if there’s a point to playing
Renegade anymore given the payoff or lack thereof for those of us who played
ruthless . 

I’ve no doubt you’ve received  overwhelmingly
positive reviews in the media, but I think we both know that most of those
reviewers would not have had the opportunity to finish the game before scoring
and moving on to other projects.

I speak as someone who owns all of the ME books and games; and up until this
point has bought every bit of DLC short of Squad Outfits (Bioware’s answer to
Horse Armor). I love this world that your team has crafted. That’s why the
ending has been so hard to process and accept. For my part, I can’t see myself
buying and new DLC or replaying my ME3 Collectors anytime soon if we don’t get
a satisfying conclusion to the saga. NOT a happy conclusion (though it would be
nice to have the option) but at least something substantive we can hang our hat
on.

Thanks for your time and patience.

Modifié par Evenjelith, 22 mars 2012 - 07:25 .

[deodeo]

first let me say that i loved ME3. however, if i can make a suggestion; i would love for there to be a downloadable interactive comic to help fill in the gaps between ME2 and ME3. what happened in those six months? similar to the in game comic that was used for the PS3 version of ME2.

[MocarnyATi]

Dear Ray,

Mass Effect 3 is an awesome game, with some of the best characters, thrilling movie-like cutscenes, and one of the best stories I ever saw in a computer games. I really love the universe you have created. I personally think that this is the main problem and an explanation why we are dissapointed about the ending your team have provided us with.

For me, and probably the other gamers to, after what we saw earlier in your past games, the ending for Mass Effect 3 is completely unsatisfying. We were fighting through the all three games, and that's why we would like to see that our choices did, in fact, matter. That filling this green bar down there, was worth the effort. Right now, you probably know, that we feel a bit confused about it.

We don't like the DLC that have a few more dialogues, that are answering our questions about the kid on the citadel space, and who he really is. We would like to see Turians fighting along side with Krogans, Quarians helping ambushed Geth squad to relocate themselves. We are missing Shepard, standing and looking at the ruins of London, counting loses, mourning the dead. His/Her love interest putting a hand on his/her shoulder. We haven't seen any of such scenes based on our choices. You created some of the best and epic stories in the world of gaming, gave us closure to some of the characters we liked. Thank you for that. But If you could do that, you could also created the most outstanding ending ever. Think of it like this: You guys have created something so big, so satisfying and superb, that people love it so much, that they don't like it to go in vain. Believe me, you can still make a difference - and that's your power as a creators of the series.

I hope you will read it, if you have time.

Regards,
David

P.S Sorry for my poor english, I'm still learning.

Modifié par MocarnyATi, 22 mars 2012 - 07:44 .

[Iconoclaste]

I was relieved to read the message from Dr Ray Muzika, as it appears clearly sensitive to all sides on the subject. Many players were quite unsatisfied with the endings of ME3, and it reflected on the pride and confidence of the developers. Art is not the land of freedom many would like it to be, as it will always be subject to criticism, and "commercial" products with art content (it's still computer programs for the most part) don't evade that rule by any means. It is a means of communication, in which the artists are only one end of the channel. Were there no receptors at the other end, or would they be given no means to give feedback, this communication would be useless, and unsatisfying for the artists. The very reason they do "art" is to "express", their beliefs, their experiences, their dreams. No one listens, no point in expression. In no acceptable way should artists be allowed to believe that their audience has nothing to say about their art, because they, too, have freedom to "receive" it or not. It's a love story, one of give and take, and it's sometimes learned the hard way. The artists of Mass Effect have done a tremendously strong call to the receptors at the other end of the communication channel, and they created love for this synthetic universe like few have achieved before in the same field. I hope they delve in this spirited creativeness they had all along to fit in the few missing bits of this masterpiece.

Cheers.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 22 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[Nejeli]

I've made peace with the endings and built my own headcanon to make things less hopeless so I get some replay value out of the game (really, that was a horrible way to end it if you intend to try selling dlc, because what's the point of buying and playing when the characters will just die/the area will just be destroyed/everything ends so bleakly anyway? Right now, I don't care about future games and how they might handle the situation. I cared about these characters that I've been playing and interacting with for three games, and right now their ending is too bleak to think of anything but 'why bother'. I honestly can't believe that no one who had a hand in the game considered that), so what really annoys me at this point is the continual insistence that it's just a 'few, overly devoted fans' that dislike the endings. That's simply not true. I also thought the 'Oh, those passionate fans! What can you do?' tone of the post was condescending and unnecessary.

[kcwoo89]

+1 for proper closure.

well said AzaggThoth

[Buffy-Summers]

April

Sounds like someone is hoping that most of the people will just calm down and the DLCs can be sold on schedule. That didnt work for DA2.