2054 réponses à ce sujet

[Akozz]

Getorex wrote...
cut...

Yeah, that is exactly what im afraid of. I can accept that whole fleet wil starv, that joker is chicken and that whole galaxy is doomed.
But what i can't accept is god child logic, or should i say lack of it. Just Geth/Quarian argument is enought to show he is wrong, not to mention EDI who is willing to die for Joker. And seriously, killing us to save us from being killed ? So he created reapers and mass relays and this is the best solution he can think of ?

And above all that. I know this "thing" taking form of a kid from earth was suposed to be emotional, symbolical, whatever. But he is just silly.

Modifié par Akozz, 22 mars 2012 - 01:37 .

[Getorex]

desirearune wrote...

I don't get it what new ending... the announcement sounded like they will explain the ending or something like that and help with the closure .... nothing was said about alternative endings being worked on.....

Probably true but they wont just outright state that.  They seem to think that all they have to do is wave a magic wand over the current ending and just EXPLAIN it and that will turn that sludge into a coherent and acceptable ending.  It wont.

They can try an simply expand on their illogical and self-contradictory and game coda violating ending all they want but it will NOT regain their fans.  Only those who think that creating synthetics to kill organics before organics can create synthetics to kill them makes ANY sense at all will like an expanded ending.  Only those who think that the statement that "synthetics will always turn on their creators" makes sense in light of the fact that you can easily (and in the BEST case) get the Quarians and Geth to make true and happy peace...and the revealed fact in story that it was the Quarians, the creators of synthetics, who turned on their creations rather than the other way around fits in perfectly with the revealed "truth" of the little starbrat.  THOSE people will be happy with an expansion. 

Even if they try and say, "Well, the alien fleets all left for their homeworlds before the relays blew so they are all happy at home", it wont fix the CORE illogic and self-contradictory NONSENSE of the starchild vomit.  There is NO WAY to fix that crap.  When the toilet is full of crap, like the current ending is, the right thing to do is to FLUSH THE TOILET.  You don't just stir it all around and call it soup.  

They MUST flush the toilet!  

[BCMakoto]

Bioware, I was following your Twitter a bit. What came to my mind lately after reading is: "You still underestimate what this is all about.". I was sceptical when you called the unhappy customers "A minority and only our most passionate fans.". Bioware, that is wrong.

Do not make the mistake to underestimate this. It is neither a small minority, nor only the most passionate fans. I know people from all parts of the "Fan-chart", from really big fans of the Mass Effect universe, way down to only casual gamers without any real experience. And they all say it "Is simply idiotic.".

I respect your "Artistic integrity", whatever you mean by that, but this will not make your fans happy. Wake up. This is not some simple uproar that will pass down. People were disappointed with Dragon Age 2, and you started to listen. Do it properly now. Yes, we got an answer, which is good, but you already start to get vague again: "We do not necessarily change the end, maybe just explain it.". Bioware, we do not want an explanation. Read this sentence now, carefully, slowly:

"We do not necessarily complain about "plot-holes", about no happy endings, about not having blue babys. That is only one part of it. We are talking about getting what we were promised to get."

Bioware, what we got now are three different endings. You told us that there would be "16 different endings which would play out vastly different. The endings would be determined by over a 1.000 variables from Mass Effect 1 and 2.". That is a statement you gave me at gamescom, it is even readable on Wikipedia.

Where is that now? If we are very detailed about the word: "different." then we have 4. We have one bad ending (Vaporization.) and Destroy/Synth/Control good. There are bad ones, but the only difference is that big ben does not explode. That is in no way what we were promised to get. Bioware, are you going down that path now? Are you going to lie to your customers about your games? What should make me purchase your game then? If you lie to me, do you think I would consider buying another game from you.

Please, realize that this is not a minority complaining about no blue babies. We want varity in endings, that our choices matter. Not some half-made explanation of the current ending (Singular intentional). I already wrote that those endings can be both good and bad. Yes, give us an ending where everyone is screwed, the galaxy is burning. But, if we played strategic and caluclating since the first hour of Mass Effect 1, give us a good ending which does not end with squad-mates defecting. And yes, no explanation can satisfy this. You can explain it with 1.000 sentences. If Garrus was with me on Earth, and afterwards on the Normandy, he defected. You are doing injustice to him. The fleet would not retreat, it is NOW or NEVER.

Give us what we were promised: "16 vastly different endings." Happy ones, bittersweet ones, bad ones. Based on what we did.

Do not just release a 10$ DLC that explains in 10 minutes before the end what happened. Or introduce the catalyst. Give us more endings, based on our effective war readiness and the choices we made.

Modifié par LPKerberos, 22 mars 2012 - 01:39 .

[Getorex]

Akozz wrote...

Getorex wrote...
cut...

Yeah, that is exactly what im afraid of. I can accept that whole fleet wil starv, that joker is chicken and that whole galaxy is doomed.
But what i can't accept is god child logic, or should i say lack of it. Just Geth/Quarian argument is enought to show he is wrong, not to mention EDI who is willing to die for Joker. And seriously, killing us to save us from being killed ? So he created reapers and mass relays and the is the best solution he can think of ?

And above all that. I know this "thing" taking form of a kid from eart was suposed to be emotional, symbolical, whatever. But he is just silly.

Yep.  There was another person in another thread who gave a cool way to at least make the starmagic kid better (WAY better).  He thought that rather than using that damn kid, they should have had the entity keep changing form so that it appeared to be, briefly, EVERY person that Shepard has dealt with in good or bad ways.  Shifting form, as it spews its TOTALY NONSENSE!  It would be better than that kid (just wouldnt' fix the garbage spewing from its mouth).

[cjzeddy]

I hardly ever post on these forums - I don't see much point of it because most of this forum is just people whining about everything and everyone.
Here's hoping that someone at Bioware is reading my comment to all this.

I love ME3 just the way it is. I agree that this is the best game you have ever created to date. I also accept the ending to be as it is - it all makes sense to me. In my eyes you have built up towards that ending with your artistic vision throughout all three games (especially in ME3 though).
I guess I'm going to have to wait to see how this all plays out before I make any lasting judgement. I must however say that if you decide to change the ending, because you're listening to fans who often don't even know themselves what they want, I will be very dissapointed. Adding answers for those who feel they need it I can accept, but if you change the ending I feel you're compromising the entire game.

As I said I'm going to reserve my judgement until I see what it is you're planning to do, no changing the artistic piece you've already created though please!

[Derengard]

You know, we at least need a reason why we should bloody well care about the explanation of the Synthetics being such a big deal, when we clearly see something different and in any case have no reason to believe why there should be only one logical development of Synthetics evolution... And how a sense of entitlement, responsibibility and sublime caring is supposed to be compatible with a sense of complete carelessness. You know, common sense and that stuff...

It's all well and good, that you might have wanted something surprising, some unexpected backstory and history behind the invasion and the cycles. One doesnt need to agree or love it, but it's a valid way to take your story. But if you can't come up with an explanation, then obviously you have to come up with something different! Not now, I don't care what you do witht the ending, although it might be interesting to watch what happens, but when you were developing the game. It's not a matter of different points of view, of one vision against fan preferences, or of clarity and unclarity, it's a matter of connecting the dots. Not the dots of interpretation but of the dots of what you, the developers, have come up with yourselves. Not that hard. It's not asking much, almost nothing, only that you don't f*ck this up.That's why there's such a strong reaction. Because it's quite frankly unbelievable that something likes this could happen, how such a lack of competence should suddenly come up in the most important moment, and we are supposed to swallow it all as art.

Modifié par Derengard, 22 mars 2012 - 02:19 .

[Getorex]

Oh, and for those who love the ending as is...besides the other HUGE GAPING PLOTHOLES and self-contradictory poo, explain this:

Why do the choices for "control" or "synthesis" lead to death for Shepard? What about either leads to death? I saw no sign whatsoever that TIM was going to die, or was on the verge of death, with his desire to "control" the Reapers. He just looked like he was slipping into the boobyhatch is all. Nutters. Not dead or dying.

Why does Shepard HAVE to die to get synthesis? How does synthesis even occur? Over radio waves? Hell, if it is THAT easy to do why didn't the all-powerful starchild just broadcast a "synthesis" signal long ago instead of doing the first "reaping"? Apparently you don't even need any contact whatsoever with the Reapers to get synthesis, just a properly modulated FM signal? Or was it AM? Whatever, how does sending a synthesis signal cause death for Shepard? It just does?

OK, so forget that for a moment. MY Shepard is no dope. He isn't going to charge TOWARDS a device that he is trying to blow up (the destroy option). He will pull back and whip out a high-powered rifle and blow that sucker from a distance. Or he will toss a grenade and run! You know, like a NORMAL PERSON WITH A BRAIN IN HIS/HER SKULL WOULD DO.

MY Shepard is smarter than their Shepard. By about 100 IQ points it seems.

[Akozz]

@Getorex
Or if they want some mystery at the ent it would be better to not giving us answer behind reapers than giving us this silly boy.
I think Sovereign in ME1 mention that reapers were not created but they are here from always and that there motivs are beyond our comprehension.
And suddenly silly boy admits he created them to "save" organics from synthetics and from chaos.
And if he is so worried about fate of galaxy then why he allow Shepard to destroy reapers ? He clearly mention that this will lead to chaos in distant future....

Come one BioWare, there is no possibly way how You can save this kid. I picked destruction option in my game to express my feelings: bul...hit !

Modifié par Akozz, 22 mars 2012 - 01:54 .

[Getorex]

No matter what the ending is, the BEST form of an ending would NOT explain the Reaper's reasons. The writers should have stuck with the Sovereign's original statement in ME1, "You are incapable of understanding".

I see now that Sovereign was actually EMBARRASSED by the reason for the reaping. Sovereign understood that it was not that organics couldn't understand it, it was that the reason (as given in ME3) is RIDICULOUS ON ITS FACE. Poor Sovereign didn't want to be laughed out of Virmire by Shepard and his peeps.

[Getorex]

Akozz wrote...

@Getorex
Or if they want some mystery at the ent it would be better to not giving us answer behind reapers than giving us this silly boy.
I think Sovereign in ME1 mention that reapers were not created but they are here from always and that there motivs are beyond our comprehension.
And suddenly silly boy admits he created them to "save" organics from synthetics and from chaos.
And he is so worried about fate of galaxy then why he allow Shepard to destroy reapers ? He clearly mention that will lead to chaos in distant future....

Come one BioWare, there is no possibly way how You can save this kid. I picked destruction option in my game to express my feelings: bul...hit !

I feel we need to yell, "JINX!" because it appears you wrote this at about the same time I was writing my comment on the same thing.

Great minds?

[cjzeddy]

@Getorex

You're assuming I want all the answers to those questions. It's science-fiction...I don't need all the answers to appriciate the game.

[Abraxarr]

There is a reason why the three endings are similar. Bioware already stated that it's likely more games will follow in the same universe, but with a new lead. This means this story needs a converging ending. They need to set the stage for the next game(s) so to speak. They cannot make the next game in a universe that can be completely different depending on the outcome of ME3, so in all three endings the same certain set of events had to happen.


This does not mean however that the ending was good in any shape or form. Even within the bounderies set by having these events included in the ending, the endings were poorly written and executed.

For starters there was no ending boss fight. The last enemy you face in combat is Marauder Shields and although he has become an epic character outside of the game, he's a big letdown as a final enemy within it.

Secondly you don't introduce new characters in the last 5 min of the game to solve everything. It disconnects from everything you've accomplished before. The last 5 min of the game seem to be written by a totally different team that havent played ME1, ME2 and even ME3.

Thirdly major plotholes are terribly obvious to those that have played all three games. Like why was Sovereign needed in ME1, given the ending of ME3. I can't go into details regarding the plotholes without spoilering, but there's plenty of posts already detailing all of them.

And lastly there was no closure in any shape or form. The people complaining about the ending get accused of wanting a better ending, but from what I've read that's not it at all. Ofcourse a lot of people would like a good ending, but the major gripes players seem to have is the lack of any form of closure. An epic conclusion to the series was promised, but it doesn't feel like anything was concluded when the credits are rolling. You're only left with a sense of bewilderment and confusion what the last cinematic was all about as it doesnt make any sense whatsoever, both emotional and factual.

So to conclude: I understand why we're not getting the happy ending some of us might want, as it doesn't fit with what you're planning to come after ME3. But that doesnt mean you can just phone in the ending. I really hope that the ambiguous promise made in the recent blogpost to fix the ending holds up and we get the conclusion we were promised.

[Akozz]

Getorex wrote...
Great minds?

Or we are all inside giant geth mind lol.

[hallfing]

jreezy wrote...
I really hope you aren't referring to me. 

Naaah bro... "MAC WALTERS" I don't mean to offend him but it's not his choice to think that "we don't need to see or know the secrets to OUR ME UNIVERSE

[Getorex]

cjzeddy wrote...

@Getorex

You're assuming I want all the answers to those questions. It's science-fiction...I don't need all the answers to appriciate the game.

There is NO answer to "I made synthetics to destroy you so you wouldn't be destroyed by your own synthetics".  That isn't "mysterious", it is nonsense.  

There is no answer to "Synthetics will always turn on their creators" when the Geth:Quarian story, and EDI, demonstrate the EXACT opposite. 

There is no mystery to that ridiculous and simple answer to why the Reapers were made (the first nonsense statement above).  In ME1 we DID have a mystery there: Sovereign clearly states that we are incapable of understanding the reasons.  Well, in one manner of speaking that turns out to be true at the end of ME3.  It is impossible to understand a completely nonsensical statement.  A statement of purpose that is so ridiculously simple and directly contradicted by facts in the story we just finished that, sure, there is no way ANYONE can understand it.  

Mystery would have been to leave the reasons for the Reaper's unexplained.  Mystery would be to offer NO explanation and simply stick with "you are not capable of understanding".  

They should have left the Reapers in existence so they are still there to pose a danger but just temporarily bested THIS cycle.  I can think of a simple way to do this that allows the mystery to remain AND leaves open the chance to create future Mass Effect games (with or without Shepard).  I came up with the idea in all of a half-hour of pondering how to save this abortion ending.  Others have come up with other possible endings.

Finally, "closure" and "ending the story of Shepard" in NO WAY requires that he/she die.  That is the easy way out and a sign of limited imagination.  

[BCMakoto]

@Abraxarr

You do not have to make the endings necessarily the same. Have endings that are bad, have endings that are good. But set the next game up roughly 50 years after the trilogy, for example, and keep the Mass relays. It would assume that every bad ending is non-canon, but who ever thinks it is canon now?

Make Shepard a mistery...that gives us the possibility of other endings.

[Getorex]

@Abraxarr

In no way, shape, or form does Shepard HAVE to die to conclude this part of the ME story. This has NEVER been the case for any protagonist. It is a mere choice, not a law of the universe (not even the ME universe). Closure does NOT equal death and separation.

They also simply cannot claim that funnelling down to 3 slightly different endings is a must for the story that promised and advertised for YEARS and REPEATEDLY that your choices matter. They don't matter if they ALL lead to one of 3 endings, all the same.

The ending was poorly conceived, not thought out AT ALL, cannot be recovered in any way by "expanding" or "explaining" it. Can't be done. Self-contradictions remain self-contradictions no matter how many times you repeat them or try and dress them up.

Modifié par Getorex, 22 mars 2012 - 02:14 .

[Abraxarr]

Getorex wrote...

@Abraxarr

In no way, shape, or form does Shepard HAVE to die to conclude this part of the ME story. This has NEVER been the case for any protagonist. It is a mere choice, not a law of the universe (not even the ME universe). Closure does NOT equal death and separation.

They also simply cannot claim that funnelling down to 3 slightly different endings is a must for the story that promised and advertised for YEARS and REPEATEDLY that your choices matter. They don't matter if they ALL lead to one of 3 endings, all the same.

The ending was poorly conceived, not thought out AT ALL, cannot be recovered in any way by "expanding" or "explaining" it. Can't be done. Self-contradictions remain self-contradictions no matter how many times you repeat them or try and dress them up.

I was trying to avoid spoilers, but as you've done that now: Shepard dieing or not is one of the few things that can be different in the three endings, that and the color of a certain something.

Also I didn't say the endings had to be carbon copies of eachother. I merely stated that I think they want a certain event to happen in all three endings and that's why the chances of a "perfect" ending are small.

I also stated that I thought the ending was bad, even within the restrictions that I think they've set for themselves they could've done way better.

[Getorex]

@Abraxarr

Relax. There are so many pages in this thread that I understand that you wouldn't have read through them all but let me put you at ease...it is PACKED with spoilers. A LOT of posts here go into much more detail than you do (or even I do).

There's nothing to "spoil" here now.

[Abraxarr]

LPKerberos wrote...

@Abraxarr

You do not have to make the endings necessarily the same. Have endings that are bad, have endings that are good. But set the next game up roughly 50 years after the trilogy, for example, and keep the Mass relays. It would assume that every bad ending is non-canon, but who ever thinks it is canon now?

Make Shepard a mistery...that gives us the possibility of other endings.

I think the destruction of the relays is exactly what they want to happen to set the stage for the next games. It creates a nice screwed up universe that's needed to create new games.

[Beta-Breech]

The way the "I'll destroy all life to save all life" plays out is like an internet meme. The ending is irrational, lacks any logic and overall is forced. It plays out much like the star wars prequels did, forced, poorly written and lacked any thought.

If I had bought a movie that I had no say on how it ended, I'd be happy to imagine what happened next, like I did with the Matrix series. This though you promised that things would be tied up, and that our choices from the entire series would have an impact. You've so far failed on delivering that for the ending. I almost regret buying the N7 edition because of this.

We're not just consumers here, we're fans. We've put a lot of time, a lot of money into your DLC to get a full picture of the story. This ending contradicts everything we worked towards. If this new DLC you're working on is just an addition to the story post ending, I'll certainly not be buying it.

Anyhow on to the good: The game straight up to those last moments was perfect, some spine tingling moments that were truly rememberable. I will say however less dialog choices made it feel less like an RPG and more like a shooter. Overall though it was great.

-Sam

[Getorex]

Abraxarr wrote...

LPKerberos wrote...

@Abraxarr

You do not have to make the endings necessarily the same. Have endings that are bad, have endings that are good. But set the next game up roughly 50 years after the trilogy, for example, and keep the Mass relays. It would assume that every bad ending is non-canon, but who ever thinks it is canon now?

Make Shepard a mistery...that gives us the possibility of other endings.

I think the destruction of the relays is exactly what they want to happen to set the stage for the next games. It creates a nice screwed up universe that's needed to create new games.

OK.  I could go with that IF they didn't force such a bleak ending to ADD to that.  Having Shepard die (or not depending on the ending you choose and your EMS and readiness level) AND the Normandy get marooned on Incest planet...grim.  You could explain that the fleet left earth system to go home (for some damn reason) but there's no reason for the Normandy to turn tail and run.  You could end with shepard dead in SOME endings, alive in others, AND leave the Normandy in earth system so that Shep can be with his surviving crew and LI.  The end.  The relays are gone so their future is fairly circumscribed to earth and immediate locales.  No need for sending MY Ashley LI to Incest planet and have MY Shepard alive (barely) back on earth.  Pointlessly bleak.  Totally unnecessary to get an ending of the Shepard saga.  

[Sharuko]

I give the game till the starchild a 10/10. It was epic.

Even after that point I am ok with it even though it had so much potential. What I don't like is the massive plot holes especially with the mass relays and the armies of the galaxy being stuck on earth.

[Abraxarr]

Getorex wrote...

OK.  I could go with that IF they didn't force such a bleak ending to ADD to that.  Having Shepard die (or not depending on the ending you choose and your EMS and readiness level) AND the Normandy get marooned on Incest planet...grim.  You could explain that the fleet left earth system to go home (for some damn reason) but there's no reason for the Normandy to turn tail and run.  You could end with shepard dead in SOME endings, alive in others, AND leave the Normandy in earth system so that Shep can be with his surviving crew and LI.  The end.  The relays are gone so their future is fairly circumscribed to earth and immediate locales.  No need for sending MY Ashley LI to Incest planet and have MY Shepard alive (barely) back on earth.  Pointlessly bleak.  Totally unnecessary to get an ending of the Shepard saga.  

That part of the ending should be removed and never spoken of again. As I said in my first post that part made no sense whatsoever.
1. Why was the Normandy close enough to the relay to make the jump instead of helping fight for earth.
2. How are the two that were running with me to the teleport beam on the Normandy and unharmed at that, even though everyone was supposedly dead who were running.
3. Why did they WANT to jump, what were they trying to accomplish? Where were they trying to go?
4. Why did Bioware add this cinematic to the ending? It doesn't give us closure in any way. It doesn't explain things nor does it give a nice place to start new DLC/games.

[Getorex]

Sharuko wrote...

I give the game till the starchild a 10/10. It was epic.

Even after that point I am ok with it even though it had so much potential. What I don't like is the massive plot holes especially with the mass relays and the armies of the galaxy being stuck on earth.

Well...I was enjoying the game a LOT until the end wrecked the truck.  Totaled it.  With me inside.

There WERE issues but they weren't killers: the spacebar being used for EVERYTHING on the PC version.  When you assign ONE key to do so much work, it ends up often doing things you do not anticipate, expect, or desperately need it to do.  

Having to eavesdrop on conversations to get "side missions" that were fairly empty.  No landing on a planet and searching, perhaps fighting, to get what you came for.  Just some scanning and BLOOP!  Done. 

Too much autopilot conversations.  The game gets taken out of your hands too much and goes off and merely presents a movie to you without any possibility of your input.  Some of this is OK and good for showing epic fleets, or finishing scenes/missions but it should have been done less often than it was.  The DISASTROUS 10 minute ending was all crappy autopilot.  Anyone in their right mind would have taken control of Shepard and gotten the hell OUT of the Citadel and gone out searching for a better ending somewhere in the game.