2054 réponses à ce sujet

[Getorex]

@Derengard: I am NOT placing Bioware into the 'artistes' arena at all. I am mocking the idea that the ending is "art". It is not. That is something a pretentious developer would call it to defend what is indefensible.

The ending is self-contradictory and patently and irredeemably illogical. The ending not only manages to contradict the coda of the entire ME universe, contradict ME1 and ME2, it manages to contradict the very same game you are currently playing at the end of ME3! THAT is impressive (that's sarcasm).

ME3 does give us a couple things as take aways: Marauder Shields is a HERO who gave his life trying to save Shepard from experiencing the worst game ending since...the last Bioware game. The other thing it gives us is pity for poor Sovereign. He just had to say, "you are incapable of understanding" the reason for the Reapers because if he said what their REAL purpose was (to have synthetics wipe out organics to save them from being wiped out by OTHER synthetics) he would have been laughed off of Virmire and Shepard wouldn't have had to choose who died and who didn't in that mission. The entire rest of the game would have been unnecessary. An embarrassed Reaper is a harmless Reaper.

[Stigweird85]

Drussius wrote...

It may be worth pointing out that Bcoolpro's account was created yesterday. I've seen quite a few accounts posting pro-ending arguments that were created within a day or two of their post... Perhaps Bioware or EA is inserting its own fictional "pro-ending fans" to lessen the nearly 100% dissatisfaction with the ending? Just saying...

I think the endings are ok, not to same standard as the rest of the franchise but not worth the utter hatred and bile that it has generated

I can assure you I do not work for Bioware and have been a member for years

[Bcoolpro]

Drussius wrote...

It may be worth pointing out that Bcoolpro's account was created yesterday. I've seen quite a few accounts posting pro-ending arguments that were created within a day or two of their post... Perhaps Bioware or EA is inserting its own fictional "pro-ending fans" to lessen the nearly 100% dissatisfaction with the ending? Just saying...

I haven't been active on any message boards for a while due to the craziness of
life.  However I have been a Mass Effect fan since the first one was released.
 With all uproar over the ending I decided to voice my opinion small as it
is... Please don't assault my integrity.

Modifié par Bcoolpro, 22 mars 2012 - 03:30 .

[KaiserinKai]

I for one am rather tired of the "It's ART!" and "Creative Integrity"cards. Those are not good excuses. Something being "Art" does not mean that it is exempt from criticism.

Yes you can see it as art, but the fact of the matter is that it's bad art...

Really, this is all I have to say to that.

[Getorex]

bigstig wrote...

Drussius wrote...

It may be worth pointing out that Bcoolpro's account was created yesterday. I've seen quite a few accounts posting pro-ending arguments that were created within a day or two of their post... Perhaps Bioware or EA is inserting its own fictional "pro-ending fans" to lessen the nearly 100% dissatisfaction with the ending? Just saying...

I think the endings are ok, not to same standard as the rest of the franchise but not worth the utter hatred and bile that it has generated

I can assure you I do not work for Bioware and have been a member for years

Ah, so maybe FINALLY we can get ONE pro-ending person to explain EXACTLY what it is about the ending that they like?  Do you like "I created synthetics to destroy organics before they could be destroyed by their own synthetics"?  Do you like "synthetics will always turn on their creators"?  Do you like squadmates that were with you moments before suddenly disembarking on a crashed Normandy so they can create Incest planet?  What precisely did you like?  

[Akozz]

Tryphus wrote...

Akozz wrote...

Also another reason why there need to bee new or at least aditional ending is fact that all your choices does not matter. If You were good, or bad, all your decisions etc. What is the point of importing saves from ME1 and ME2 if your saga ends in the same way anyway ?

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.

WHY is it that everyone thinks the ending has to show you what you've ALREADY seen?? My story is not the same if I'm bad or good, and all of those decisions I made are THERE. I experienced them THROUGHOUT the game. We don't need to be reminded again and again. Even the little things are there, they factor into your War Assets and even have descriptions explaining their origin and outcome.

As for what happens after your final choice, THAT'S a little disappointing, but ONLY if you know all of the other endings. In my first playthrough without being tainted by this movement, I loved it, I chose synthesis and I thought it was great. Then you see the others and feel a little confused about what the difference really is. Then again, it still makes sense they all end similarly, because it was said the relays would be destroyed no matter what and blah blah, however, more insight into the origin of the Reapers, Citadel, Catalyst, etc, would've been the best thing to add before going through that.

But as far as other choices not meaning anything?? I have to completely disagree, I felt, saw, and played all of my choices, and they meant plenty. Seeing EXACTLY why they meant something is what was oft missing, it was only after learning why through the strategy guide that I gained a greater appreciation for what was done in-game.

I agree that it is not only about final result. Im "journey is more important than destination" kind person. And agree with You about many things. But don't You think that ME is game about decisions and consequences, and while your journey to the ending might be vastly different because of your decisions it is "a bit" weird and disappointing that final outcome is pretty much the same for everybody ?

In other worlds how would You feel if somebody told you before playing all three games that no matter what You do the very final decision of the game will be exactly the same for You and all other players.

Modifié par Akozz, 22 mars 2012 - 03:32 .

[Beta-Breech]

Getorex wrote...

@Derengard: I am NOT placing Bioware into the 'artistes' arena at all. I am mocking the idea that the ending is "art". It is not. That is something a pretentious developer would call it to defend what is indefensible.

The ending is self-contradictory and patently and irredeemably illogical. The ending not only manages to contradict the coda of the entire ME universe, contradict ME1 and ME2, it manages to contradict the very same game you are currently playing at the end of ME3! THAT is impressive (that's sarcasm).

ME3 does give us a couple things as take aways: Marauder Shields is a HERO who gave his life trying to save Shepard from experiencing the worst game ending since...the last Bioware game. The other thing it gives us is pity for poor Sovereign. He just had to say, "you are incapable of understanding" the reason for the Reapers because if he said what their REAL purpose was (to have synthetics wipe out organics to save them from being wiped out by OTHER synthetics) he would have been laughed off of Virmire and Shepard wouldn't have had to choose who died and who didn't in that mission. The entire rest of the game would have been unnecessary. An embarrassed Reaper is a harmless Reaper.

This post made me very happy.  And more importanly summerized exactly what was wrong with the ending perfectly.  

[WatsonMJ]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

As someone who hasn't yet played ME3, and has avoided this thread to avoid spoilers, can someone just tell me whether I need to be concerned that the ME3 I play won't be the one the creators envisioned?

That is, they're not going to change the ending without my permission right? When I do get around to playing, I want to play the game they created, not the one the fans demanded.

The game is awesome!  Whether you like or hate the ending is irrelevant.  Playing the game is fun, and the story is well worth experiencing.   Not playing the game because of a bad ending would be like..."living in your mom's basement and never going outside because life ends in death so what's the point."

Gosh, I hope that didn't hit home for TOO many readers.

Please play and judge for yourself.

[Getorex]

@WatonMJ: Yes, the game IS fun (until you get to the ruinous last 10 ILLOGICAL minutes). It is a perfect game if you don't give a flying crap for the entire series, don't give a crap for the characters, the worlds, the in-game history, if you ignore the codex, forget what you did only hours before the ending comes along...yeah, it fun that way.

Some of us have been captured by the game and story since ME1. Some of us get involved in a good story, get into good characters, etc. Some of us cannot hold in our minds two contradictory things at the same time without sweating a single thought on it. SOME of us require more from our entertainment than that it be merely "shiny". Oooh, shiny! Me like!

[Aradace]

Getorex wrote...
...Do you like squadmates that were with you moments before suddenly disembarking on a crashed Normandy so they can create Incest planet?.......

I LOL'd so hard at this because it's true

@Watson - Sorry to burst your bubble but for myself (and many others) the fact that the ending is so poor totally ruins and negates the rest of the game being great (and the rest of the game is great IMO).  For me, I can watch a great movie and enjoy every second of it, but if the ending is ****** poor, it ruins the entire movie for me.  Period.

Modifié par Aradace, 22 mars 2012 - 03:44 .

[Zwei133]

bigstig's signature wrote...
I trust Bioware

I strongly urge you to always have a healthy degree of skepticism for any corporate entity.  Some are worse than others.

[Stigweird85]

Getorex wrote...

bigstig wrote...

Drussius wrote...

It may be worth pointing out that Bcoolpro's account was created yesterday. I've seen quite a few accounts posting pro-ending arguments that were created within a day or two of their post... Perhaps Bioware or EA is inserting its own fictional "pro-ending fans" to lessen the nearly 100% dissatisfaction with the ending? Just saying...

I think the endings are ok, not to same standard as the rest of the franchise but not worth the utter hatred and bile that it has generated

I can assure you I do not work for Bioware and have been a member for years

Ah, so maybe FINALLY we can get ONE pro-ending person to explain EXACTLY what it is about the ending that they like?  Do you like "I created synthetics to destroy organics before they could be destroyed by their own synthetics"?  Do you like "synthetics will always turn on their creators"?  Do you like squadmates that were with you moments before suddenly disembarking on a crashed Normandy so they can create Incest planet?  What precisely did you like?  

They way I saw it, and this was before I read the IT, my Shep was a results and all costs guy. The god child was irrelevant to me. I had been fighting for 100+ hours to destroy the reapers and I finally had the chance to do it. As I also had high EMS I got the "good" ending.

Sure it raised some questions - notably why was my squadmates back on the normandy and where the hell was it going. I wasn't expecting a happy ending but I got an ending. Is it perfect? No is it absolutly awful not by a long shot.

[Drussius]

bigstig wrote...

I can assure you I do not work for Bioware and have been a member for years

I did say NEARLY 100% dissatisfaction. I'm sure a few people are genuinely okay with the endings. And I was just pointing out something i've noticed frequently in the "pro-ending" arguments. It's not a universal truth or anything.

And personally, I would have been less disappointed in the endings, even with all their plotholes and lack of logic, had there been a few more epilogue scenes in the ending to show that my struggles (as Shepard) actually MEANT anything. I was never looking for a sunshine and rainbows ending. Most homeworlds are a shambles, and the collective civilizations of the galaxy were always going to have a struggle ahead of them, but this ending... it's like the writers that turned out 95% of the game in stellar fashion were fired at the last minute and replaced with a Middle School creative writing class. 

Just a few scenes would have sufficed. A brief eulogy for all those who lost their lives securing a future for the galaxy. Krogan children playing together on Tuchanka. The Geth working to complete their Dyson Sphere and the Quarians rebuilding on the homeworld. Thessia and Palavan being rebuilt... and instead of some random Grandfather and Grandson speaking at the end, Liara sitting down with her little blue daughter to tell one more story about her father, Commander Shepard (or some variation on each for those whose choices didn't precisely match mine).

I would have been a lot more forgiving if the disappointing lack of choice, explanation and logic presented in the endings had been offset by a little more effort presenting a sense that the culmination of three games was something other than a total disaster. As it stands, the ending is bleak. The combined military might of most races is stuck in the Sol system, to fight over the few resources left on Earth. The crew you came to love over 2.99 games is marooned somewhere, and that's it. And that's ignoring the fact that the Arrival DLC of ME2 made pretty clear that the destruction of a Mass Relay meant doom for the system it was located in, which means most homeworlds aren't just in ruins, they were just obliterated. Earth included. But just a few more scenes would have altered the feel of the game's finale greatly, and even if it was inconsistent, would have shown that the destruction of the relays didn't just destroy everything I spent three games trying to save...

I have long been a fan of Bioware's games, but the last few have been riddled with plotholes and inconsistencies, which leads to a lack of the Awe that I felt when I finished most of their earlier games. The writers have been dropping the ball a bit, and apparently there's no one looking at their work so that some discussion could close up inconsistences like the ones that are piled into the end of this game. Fans are right to be demanding something be done to fix up the ending a bit. I think some are demanding a bit TOO much, but this is definitely not the culmination we were promised, and I think that's where the unrest lies.

[GuyIncognito21]

Getorex wrote...
So, you don't even want to play the game they PROMISED and ADVERTISED for years and years?  You want the one with the CLEARLY poorly thought out ending, that is self-contradictory (it is and there is no one who can or does argue otherwise)?  

Knock yourself out.  They are likely (if they clean up their dog**** pile) to release a DLC that you are not required to download.  You are free to enjoy illogic and self-contradiction all you desire.

I'm not making a political statement.  I haven't seen the endings yet, so obviously I have no opinion on them.  I'm just trying to figure out if they're going to add a bunch of crap in an "update" before I get the chance to see it.

[Stigweird85]

Zwei133 wrote...

bigstig's signature wrote...
I trust Bioware

I strongly urge you to always have a healthy degree of skepticism for any corporate entity.  Some are worse than others.

They asked for trust, so I will trust them, they have given me countless hours of entertainment it's the least that I can do really. While I am skeptical I will give them the benefit of the doubt. However if they abuse said trust then it will be much harder for them to regain it

[Zwei133]

GuyIncognito21 wrote...

Getorex wrote...
So, you don't even want to play the game they PROMISED and ADVERTISED for years and years?  You want the one with the CLEARLY poorly thought out ending, that is self-contradictory (it is and there is no one who can or does argue otherwise)?  

Knock yourself out.  They are likely (if they clean up their dog**** pile) to release a DLC that you are not required to download.  You are free to enjoy illogic and self-contradiction all you desire.

I'm not making a political statement.  I haven't seen the endings yet, so obviously I have no opinion on them.  I'm just trying to figure out if they're going to add a bunch of crap in an "update" before I get the chance to see it.

If you don't get to them by the time they finish, don't worry, there is a youtube video that shows all possible ending colors simultaneously.  I also highly doubt the altered endings will be a patch.  I suspect they will be a DLC so you can just not download the DLC, watch the ending, and decide whether or not you want the DLC.

[TSC_1]

I'm terrified that we're just going to get "explanation" content rather than new endings. That's not enough for me (or for a very large number of Bioware's customers). There really do need to be new endings, entirely divorced from the Starchild. I don't want to have to see him at all. And, by god, I do want a happy ending as an option. I want my Shepard to be able to reunite with his friends and LI in a galaxy where the mass relays still exist.

An "explanation" of what we already have, or content that tells us more about how screwed the galaxy and our crew are under the guise of "closure," just won't cut it.

Modifié par TSC_1, 22 mars 2012 - 03:54 .

[Aradace]

TSC_1 wrote...

I'm terrified that we're just going to get "explanation" content rather than new endings. That's not enough for me (or for a very large number of Bioware's customers). There really do need to be new endings, entirely divorced from the Starchild. I don't want to have to see him at all. And, by god, I do want a happy ending as an option. I want my Shepard to be able to reunite with his friends and LI in a galaxy where the mass relays still exist.

An "explanation" of what we already have, or content that tells us more about how screwed the galaxy and our crew are under the guise of "closure," just won't cut it.

And hence why I refuse to pay for the DLC.  Now that we know they're "doing something" about it, all Im waiting for at this point is to see if it's going to cost anything.  If it doesnt, I'll gladly download it.  If it does, then I'll just wait a week or two for it to be up on Youtube and watch it there.  Would also like to make clear that if it's the former, I'll continue to invest in BioWare products.  If it's the latter however, I think Im pretty much done with any future products. 

[Bcoolpro]

Drussius wrote...

...instead of some random Grandfather and Grandson speaking at the end, Liara sitting down with her little blue daughter to tell one more story about her father, Commander Shepard...

I will say I agree on the post credit epilog... I could have done without the grandson and grandfather thing and would have prefered something more personal.

[Zwei133]

bigstig wrote...

Zwei133 wrote...

bigstig's signature wrote...
I trust Bioware

I strongly urge you to always have a healthy degree of skepticism for any corporate entity.  Some are worse than others.

They asked for trust, so I will trust them, they have given me countless hours of entertainment it's the least that I can do really. While I am skeptical I will give them the benefit of the doubt. However if they abuse said trust then it will be much harder for them to regain it

I respect that position.  For me, EA/BioWare has long since burned off the good karma the BioWare brand has earned.  For me, this is the point where they have a chance to re-earn my trust; I just don't think they will.

I think the final nail in the coffin (sorry for the overused cliche) was the text box after the endings.  To me, this is the very definition of corporate greed.  And greed is never to be trusted.

ME3 was not some free trial game (Buy more levels!); it was supposed to be a complete product.  Advertising at the end of the game to buy more content shows nothing but contempt for the consumers of the product.

I bought every DLC for ME1 and 2; not because it was advertised but because the games sold themselves.  I wonder if BioWare was aware of how bad the end was and felt they needed an in game ad to remind people they should spend money on the franchise.

Modifié par Zwei133, 22 mars 2012 - 04:05 .

[Stigweird85]

Drussius wrote...

bigstig wrote...

I can assure you I do not work for Bioware and have been a member for years

I did say NEARLY 100% dissatisfaction. I'm sure a few people are genuinely okay with the endings. And I was just pointing out something i've noticed frequently in the "pro-ending" arguments. It's not a universal truth or anything.

And personally, I would have been less disappointed in the endings, even with all their plotholes and lack of logic, had there been a few more epilogue scenes in the ending to show that my struggles (as Shepard) actually MEANT anything. I was never looking for a sunshine and rainbows ending. Most homeworlds are a shambles, and the collective civilizations of the galaxy were always going to have a struggle ahead of them, but this ending... it's like the writers that turned out 95% of the game in stellar fashion were fired at the last minute and replaced with a Middle School creative writing class. 

Just a few scenes would have sufficed. A brief eulogy for all those who lost their lives securing a future for the galaxy. Krogan children playing together on Tuchanka. The Geth working to complete their Dyson Sphere and the Quarians rebuilding on the homeworld. Thessia and Palavan being rebuilt... and instead of some random Grandfather and Grandson speaking at the end, Liara sitting down with her little blue daughter to tell one more story about her father, Commander Shepard (or some variation on each for those whose choices didn't precisely match mine).

I would have been a lot more forgiving if the disappointing lack of choice, explanation and logic presented in the endings had been offset by a little more effort presenting a sense that the culmination of three games was something other than a total disaster. As it stands, the ending is bleak. The combined military might of most races is stuck in the Sol system, to fight over the few resources left on Earth. The crew you came to love over 2.99 games is marooned somewhere, and that's it. And that's ignoring the fact that the Arrival DLC of ME2 made pretty clear that the destruction of a Mass Relay meant doom for the system it was located in, which means most homeworlds aren't just in ruins, they were just obliterated. Earth included. But just a few more scenes would have altered the feel of the game's finale greatly, and even if it was inconsistent, would have shown that the destruction of the relays didn't just destroy everything I spent three games trying to save...

I have long been a fan of Bioware's games, but the last few have been riddled with plotholes and inconsistencies, which leads to a lack of the Awe that I felt when I finished most of their earlier games. The writers have been dropping the ball a bit, and apparently there's no one looking at their work so that some discussion could close up inconsistences like the ones that are piled into the end of this game. Fans are right to be demanding something be done to fix up the ending a bit. I think some are demanding a bit TOO much, but this is definitely not the culmination we were promised, and I think that's where the unrest lies.

Fairplay to you, all valid point and I agree with most of them. I did think the normandy thing was a little weird, however I just assumed when relays exploded at the end it was more of an EMP thing with a shock wave rather than a catestrophic explosion that crashing a meteor in one would created. This also explains why the Normandy suffers combination of shockwave and EMP. The easiest solution is a text epilogue at the end but personally I don't like that, it seems like a cheap out. Show me don't tell me what happened.

Ideally I would like Bioware to run with the indoctrination theory, make that final segment all an illusion in Shep's mind. This means you can keep the end and add anything you want after it.

[Getorex]

Mass Effect 1 was a tough act to follow. GREAT story, fantastic intro to the entire universe, cool locations. I was grinning like one of the freak incest babies from the Incest planet that the Normandy crew created at the end ME3 at times because I was thinking, "This is SO cool!" or "This is such a clever story!" LOVED it. Sure, the textures are lacking, particularly by today's standards, but it wasn't an issue for me at the time (and it is one I can overlook even today). Mass Effect 2 was improved in many ways but the STORY was weaker. When I started in on Mass Effect 3 I started thinking, "OK, they seem to be working the Cerberus story that was kinda weak in ME2 into ME3 quite well. It is blending it all together acceptably. I truly enjoyed some of the dialog (that which was allowed in ME3 which was much less than in ME2 or ME1) and they did some scenes VERY well (Thane, Mordin). I was cool overall going into the final battle on Earth.

Wow. What a difference just a few minutes out of hundreds of hours can make to an overall story. Like getting to bed a superhot chick only to find at the last moment that she has oozing sores around her vagina, a raging yeast infection, and bad BAD breath. Bweeeeep. Down goes the stiffy.

[Getorex]

@bigstig: I don't trust them at this point. I haven't written them off but I don't trust them either. I'm going to wait and see. When I SEE what they do, then I will accept it or blow them off entirely. The ball is in their court.

I wait.

[XqctaX]

i belive in action, not words. becouse, as someone who have been around a few years and lived a little i Know the little meeing of words without actions backing them up..

if they have a real project towards the ending. release details about how and when we get it, without spoilers ofc. so far all i see is a attempt at hushing the unhappy people up so sales wont be affected negatively..