2054 réponses à ce sujet

[Cadence of the Planes]

You're establishing a straw man. By your standards no means of gauging reaction is valid.

By my standards, and by acceptable statistical standards - the only real way is.. you guessed it... RANDOM SAMPLING.

[Cadence of the Planes]

I also am fully under the asumption that nobody at Bioware would have cared one twig about the customers perceivence of the quality of the game if money weren't hurting now in some way. Either through loss of rep inflicting harm on future titles/distribution-negotations or direct affectance of current sales.

Finally.. I have a hard time seeing someone being proud of artistic integrity when the product being discussed contains poorly photoshopped images pulled directly from the web. It just doesn't fly with me, tbh.

1) Arguing about intent isn't going to get us very far- we could sit here for days and argue about Bioware's intent. What matters is that at least they're responding to the outcry.

2) I'm not proud of anything- nor am I thrilled about the photoshopped images. If you read my original post, I'm just asking how responding to the fans and attempting another ending to accomodate them detracts in any way from the artistic integrity.

[Zwei133]

Warth, there is always a way to do a random sampling. For example, EA knows everyone who has played Mass Effect 3 (origin) and could email those users a survey.

Now, you might say only the most passionate would reply, but that is why you need to create an incentive. Restaurants do it all the time; take this five minute survey and you could win a $50 gift card. Some even give you a free appetizer when you take their survey.

Thus, EA could offer discounted DLC, a free game, some prize, or something to make those who can't be bothered respond.

1) Arguing about intent isn't going to get us very far- we could sit
here for days and argue about Bioware's intent. What matters is that at
least they're responding to the outcry.

Absolutely.  I believe this is a larger issue than the ending of Mass Effect, but rather is setting precedent for the future of video game development.  Even though I am extremely dissatisifed with the Mass Effect ending, it has started some very interesting discussions on the role between developers and clients as well as evaluations on video games as an artistic medium.

BioWare historically has been pretty good about fan feedback and criticism (heck, they are even rewriting the fourth Mass Effect novel), so it is my hope that BioWare is continuing this trend behind all the PR double talk and face saving.

Modifié par Zwei133, 22 mars 2012 - 07:23 .

[Heliosas]

You know, you guys arguing over what makes a valid representation of our views via polls ect is just totally derailing this thread. I know you both think you are right, and there is this whole bit about free speech and what not..but you are killing this threads real point. Please just agree to disagree and let the actual topic/debate take its natural course.

Modifié par Heliosas, 22 mars 2012 - 07:25 .

[Zwei133]

How do you only get PC players? Origin is multi-platform. Even if you have never signed up explicitly for it you have it if you have ever played an EA game on PS3 or XBox360. Both provide access to some email address. In fact, this is one of the few things I think EA is doing right; I love that my ME games on iOS update my xbox360 campaign and I can view my galactic readiness on social.bioware.com.

All that Cadence has said is the current sample in this thread is skewed (bias in the sample). Also, many of the polls themselves (look at the gamefaqs one; which is designed to dilute the numbers of those who want the ending changed) are skewed (bias in the poll) by design. There is no truly random sample, that is why there are complex mathematical models to process and understand statisitical significance.

I am at a loss to explain how statistical analysis has hijacked this thread, which is supposed to contain constructive criticism for Dr. Ray.

Modifié par Zwei133, 22 mars 2012 - 07:32 .

[rumbalumba]

thank you for always bringing up the metacritic scores.

flash news: WE DON'T CARE.

oh and from the looks of it, future DLC? no thanks. so you finished a game that you guys created, and then left plotholes? how can you guys miss those?

the endings sucked big time. what we complain about is that our decisions in the end meant NOTHING.

[venom56321489]

I JUST FEAR BIOWARE IS HEADED TO A MORE FIRST PERSON SHOOTER GENRE. ME3 HAD LESS DIALOGUE, HAD MULTIPLAYER. AND THEIR IPAD GAME IS JUST STRAIGHT FIRST PERSON SHOOTER. THEY SEEM TO WANT TO COPY COD MORE SHOOTER, LESS STORY. BIOWARE MIGHT BE LOSING THEIR TOUCH OR SELLING OUT.

[Stigweird85]

venom56321489 wrote...

I JUST FEAR BIOWARE IS HEADED TO A MORE FIRST PERSON SHOOTER GENRE. ME3 HAD LESS DIALOGUE, HAD MULTIPLAYER. AND THEIR IPAD GAME IS JUST STRAIGHT FIRST PERSON SHOOTER. THEY SEEM TO WANT TO COPY COD MORE SHOOTER, LESS STORY. BIOWARE MIGHT BE LOSING THEIR TOUCH OR SELLING OUT.

I think the iPad game  was (a) not made by Bioware and ( a 3rd person shooter like the main game

[venom56321489]

I AM STILL DEBATING RETURNING MY ME3. I WANT A NEW ENDING NOT JUST EXTRA EXPLANATION. IF THEY WANT TO STAND BY THEIR ART AND STAND BY ENDING THEY CAN BE STARVING ARTISTS BECAUSE ILL BE OUT, NOT ANOTHER PENNY FROM ME. AND I AM SURE MANY OTHER FANS WILL LEAVE AS WELL. THEY SEEM TO HAVE LOST TOUCH SINCE DA2.

[Zwei133]

bigstig wrote...

venom56321489 wrote...

I JUST FEAR BIOWARE IS HEADED TO A MORE FIRST PERSON SHOOTER GENRE. ME3 HAD LESS DIALOGUE, HAD MULTIPLAYER. AND THEIR IPAD GAME IS JUST STRAIGHT FIRST PERSON SHOOTER. THEY SEEM TO WANT TO COPY COD MORE SHOOTER, LESS STORY. BIOWARE MIGHT BE LOSING THEIR TOUCH OR SELLING OUT.

I think the iPad game  was (a) not made by Bioware and ( a 3rd person shooter like the main game

Strangely enough, I liked the iPad shooter game.  The ending at least made some sort of sense within the context of the Mass Effect universe.  I even like the datapad game, the little notes from your crew are a nice touch.  But the little details like that only reinforce how badly the ending of ME3 dropped the ball...

Modifié par Zwei133, 22 mars 2012 - 07:48 .

[Getorex]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Cadence of the Planes wrote...

You're establishing a straw man. By your standards no means of gauging reaction is valid.

By my standards, and by acceptable statistical standards - the only real way is.. you guessed it... RANDOM SAMPLING.

But you've stated that no method is applicable because only the most passionate of fans post their own opinions.

How does he deal with this?  My sister and father are avid ME fans.  I got them started on it.  They do NOT do forums, they do NOT enter opinions on websites.  They just buy and play the games.  They aren't playing ME3 anymore and are DEEPLY disaffected by the ending of ME3.  I didn't give them their opinions.  They didn't post them.  They just dropped ME3 in very deep disappointment and disaffection.  

They must not exist.

[DCG2U]

venom56321489 wrote...

I AM STILL DEBATING RETURNING MY ME3. I WANT A NEW ENDING NOT JUST EXTRA EXPLANATION. IF THEY WANT TO STAND BY THEIR ART AND STAND BY ENDING THEY CAN BE STARVING ARTISTS BECAUSE ILL BE OUT, NOT ANOTHER PENNY FROM ME. AND I AM SURE MANY OTHER FANS WILL LEAVE AS WELL. THEY SEEM TO HAVE LOST TOUCH SINCE DA2.

Well sadly, as much as I would like to happen, they will not re-write/change/alter the ending. Pretty much confirmed; they will only explain the ending further. Personally, I liked ME3 alot (more than ME1 and a little more than ME2) even with all the bugs and the day-one DLC. I have not yet finished the ending (and I did not spoil myself alot either which is a first for me haha, I only know what happens to the protagonist in the end) but if it is as bad as people say, then I think BioWare should reconsider the ending, like Fallout 3 did with Broken Steel DLC, which turned out to be a massive success.

[Heliosas]

venom56321489 wrote...

I JUST FEAR BIOWARE IS HEADED TO A MORE FIRST PERSON SHOOTER GENRE. ME3 HAD LESS DIALOGUE, HAD MULTIPLAYER. AND THEIR IPAD GAME IS JUST STRAIGHT FIRST PERSON SHOOTER. THEY SEEM TO WANT TO COPY COD MORE SHOOTER, LESS STORY. BIOWARE MIGHT BE LOSING THEIR TOUCH OR SELLING OUT.

ME3 didn't have less dialogue. It had about the same amount as the other games that you had a say in..and then more dialogue that you had no choice in. You could also badger a character for more talk. Like Garrus actually had several things to say each time you approched him between missions. Rather than just, 'can it wait? I need to make some calibrations'.

I agree Bioware seem to be losing sight of their roots though. Not sure if this is the EA taint seeping through, or just the way of things. These days it is all about pleasing the masses, and the masses want dumbed down easy-mode games that require no thought. You only need to look at the 'option' in ME3 to turn off having to make decisions...because apparently *some* players don't want to think for themselves, they just want to shoot ****.

Modifié par Heliosas, 22 mars 2012 - 07:59 .

[Getorex]

Back on thread. I have an observation that, to the best of my knowledge, no one else has put forward. It is yet another dashing of hope that Bioware claims their disjointed and hopelessly broken and illogical ending provides.

Let's turn our attention to stargazer at the very very ass end of the ending. There's the DEEPLY inbred stargazer telling Shepard stories to his even more deeply inbred...grandson? Whatever, after a certain level of inbreeding does it really matter anymore? Anywho...there's stargazer with the freak kid. Kid asks stargazer "what will I find if I ever go out in space?" Stargazer goes on about how many stars and planets there are, how there may be (I would like to emphasize the word "MAY") different civilizations on these worlds, etc.

Wait a minute! Hold the phone! Who got out of the crashed Normandy?! I'd SWEAR I saw ALIENS. I saw a Garrus, at least. Some saw Liara. Perhaps others saw Tali. All of them are ALIENS. Why the hell did the kid need to ask "what will I find" when they already KNOW what they'd find? Turians, Quarians, Asari at the very least because they were with the original crew! But wait! The kid is asking! THAT means that, as per logic, the planet is clearly not compatible with Turian or Quarian so Garrus and Tali died VERY shortly after the crash landing. HAPPY ENDING! There's some hope! OK, well, Liara should have then been fine, surely? If the planet is compatible with humans, it must be compatible with Asari AND Liara was the ONLY species in the whole batch who could mate with ANYONE. There SHOULD be Asari girls running around all over the place in stargazer's time! But there aren't because the kid had to ask and stargazer had to say their MIGHT be all kinds of other civilizations out there. Get the drift?

The crew of the Normandy crashed, the aliens on the crew are all LONG dead and gone (Garrus and Tali were screwed from day one anyway because they were solo...no one to mate with...AND the planet couldn't be compatible with BOTH human/Asari and Turian/Quarian. Just can't.). Apparently Liara didn't fare well either (she CAN live thousands of years remember AND mate with anyone).

Too bad, so sad. No hope on planet Incest to be found.

The end MUST be completely FIXED. There is no "hope" in it at all.

Modifié par Getorex, 22 mars 2012 - 08:03 .

[Lonestar69]

 This has been the best game series i've played
to finally get to the end and save the earth..  to see all your allies afterwards ..  tali  meranda and the rest to talk to them after the final battle..
BUT NO.....
THERE IS ONLY 1 OTHER SERIES ENDING THAT WAS WORSE
KNIGHTS OF THE OLD REPUBLIC 2
come on sereously...
the ending almost makes me want to take the disk out and throw it away
me1 me2 i played multiple time  and it ends like garbage for all we go thru
i know you can to better  and make it for we want to play over and over not just once ...
and where omega in all this??  DLC sounds good for that 1.. i've played videos games since pong   atari nes snes intelivision 3d0 ps2 computer and now 360..  you can end it like it sould be  interactivlty with your crew and not a 30 second blip
Thank you
Mr.R

Modifié par Lonestar69, 22 mars 2012 - 08:02 .

[Survalli]

Lonestar69 wrote...
THERE IS ONLY 1 OTHER SERIES ENDING THAT WAS WORSE
KNIGHTS OF THE OLD REPUBLIC 2

ending sucked for Old Republic 2, but at least the designers admitted they were under the gun to meet the deadline.    here,  Bioware claims they created this ending for its "artistic merits."    But really lets get to the point, and call it what it really is...its a marketing strategy to get you to buy DLC, which will give them the cash flow to fund their next game.

[Impossibru]

Getorex wrote...

Too bad, so sad. No hope on planet Incest to be found.

That made me lol

[Stigweird85]

venom56321489 wrote...

I AM STILL DEBATING RETURNING MY ME3. I WANT A NEW ENDING NOT JUST EXTRA EXPLANATION. IF THEY WANT TO STAND BY THEIR ART AND STAND BY ENDING THEY CAN BE STARVING ARTISTS BECAUSE ILL BE OUT, NOT ANOTHER PENNY FROM ME. AND I AM SURE MANY OTHER FANS WILL LEAVE AS WELL. THEY SEEM TO HAVE LOST TOUCH SINCE DA2.

Returning the game seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face to me - yes the endings were well we know what the endings were so I won't go into it. However by returning the game you are damning yourself to that conclusion to that finish. 

At least wait until April @ Pax then make up your mind

[Zwei133]

bigstig wrote...

venom56321489 wrote...

I AM STILL DEBATING RETURNING MY ME3. I WANT A NEW ENDING NOT JUST EXTRA EXPLANATION. IF THEY WANT TO STAND BY THEIR ART AND STAND BY ENDING THEY CAN BE STARVING ARTISTS BECAUSE ILL BE OUT, NOT ANOTHER PENNY FROM ME. AND I AM SURE MANY OTHER FANS WILL LEAVE AS WELL. THEY SEEM TO HAVE LOST TOUCH SINCE DA2.

Returning the game seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face to me - yes the endings were well we know what the endings were so I won't go into it. However by returning the game you are damning yourself to that conclusion to that finish. 

At least wait until April @ Pax then make up your mind

I second that.

[Getorex]

bigstig wrote...

venom56321489 wrote...

I AM STILL DEBATING RETURNING MY ME3. I WANT A NEW ENDING NOT JUST EXTRA EXPLANATION. IF THEY WANT TO STAND BY THEIR ART AND STAND BY ENDING THEY CAN BE STARVING ARTISTS BECAUSE ILL BE OUT, NOT ANOTHER PENNY FROM ME. AND I AM SURE MANY OTHER FANS WILL LEAVE AS WELL. THEY SEEM TO HAVE LOST TOUCH SINCE DA2.

Returning the game seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face to me - yes the endings were well we know what the endings were so I won't go into it. However by returning the game you are damning yourself to that conclusion to that finish. 

At least wait until April @ Pax then make up your mind

If you wait that long you wont be able to return it.  I returned mine.  Keep in mind that you can ALWAYS buy it again.  It isn't in limited supply.  You will be able to buy it as soon as you want to IF they fix it.  I WILL buy it again IF they fix it.  Otherwise...I got my money back and am out nothing.

[Killjoy Cutter]

corpselover wrote...

SeventyOne wrote...

A clever comment about art was made by a Gamespot commenter:
"DannyC_pt: Art doesn't end with an advertisement to buy more DLC."

That is the end of the artistic discussion...

Art also isn't sold in a compromised form in order to make a greater profit.  The fact that Bioware was willing to carve out components of the game and sell them only to consumers willing to pay a greater price undermines their whole artistic integrity defense. If they are willing to sell their artistic integrity down the river themselves for a greater profit, how can we take them seriously when they try to use it as defense to not give consumers the product they promised them.

EXACTLY. 

There's no way you can claim "artistic integrity" after putting Snookie a gaming magazine's talking boob-job in the same game they devoted metric tons of gushing, loving coverage to.

Sheeh.

[Killjoy Cutter]

At least the endings means that Origin isn't keeping me from something I want, now.

Might be different if Shep were actually able to defeat the Reapers, instead of three versions of mutally assured destruction.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 22 mars 2012 - 08:28 .