2054 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

DJBare wrote...

I agree, votes on individual website are easily skewed, but how about more than one..

Polls
Poll About Your reaction on Dr. Ray Muzyka's statement on 21st March 2012
Poll About The Ending
'Official' Poll For Mass Effect 3 Ending DLC
[POLL] What exactly would you change with the ending?
GameFaqs poll
Facebook, Retake ME3

I'm sure you statistical experts can make something of those, there is bias in the list a give because 4 of them are the social bioware network.

In the end, it's not the numbers that have been counting, but the margin, I find it difficult to believe anyone could ignore the extreme margins in these votes.

From one of those polls:




Endings suck, we want a brighter one.
91%(60813 votes)


Endings are fine, we just want the Normandy strand on Earth or somewhere near Shepard.
6%(3963 votes)


Fine as it is.
2%(1398 votes)

[Getorex]

orangesonic wrote...

art is still art even if you don`t like it

Art is not whatever you decide to call 'art' either.

Art is changeable, always has been, always will be.  It is changed for any number of reasons and can often (most times?) make the final product BETTER by that change.

DaVinci painted some OTHER "art" on the canvas before he TOTALL redid it as the Mona Lisa.  He painted over a previous piece of "art" to create a totally different (and better?) piece of art that people now know and love.  He should have been boiled in oil for doing that because art is sacrosanct. 

Right?

Doyle should have been hanged for changing the ending to his Sherlock Holmes story that the public didn't like in its original form.  He SHOULD have stuck to his original guns (and we would not have Sherlock Holmes today as such a well-known and loved character).  He IMPROVED on the art by changing it from his original form in direct response to public outcry.

Movie endings (art) are routinely changed after test audiences find them lacking or unacceptable. 

Nothing to see here, changing art is ROUTINE and NORMAL.  Always and everywhere.

[Getorex]

Mole267 wrote...

With all respect, it seems like there were things that got too much attention that were completely unnecessary. Like that IGN bimbo making an appearance in the game, for one. Why couldn't the time and effort put into getting her in the game have been spent on making some other aspect of the game better?

Well in game, ALL aspects of the game are made better by not letting her on the crew.  She's...creepy.  Even creepier than the kid. 

I vomited into my mouth a little bit when the bit of dialog comes up (if you let her on the ship) where you can try and seduce her. 

Gack.  I just vomited a little again just typing that...

[Getorex]

Wazehaze wrote...

poerksen wrote...

Shepard getting hit in the groin by harbinger's laser. All the reapers turn around and look at harbinger and say dude, we may exterminate all advanced organic life in the galaxy, but that is going overboard. the reapers leave and the galaxy is saved.

This would have been amazing ending

FIXED!

A Reaper says, "Dude.  UNcool." Bunch of Reapers shake their...heads?...and bail on Harbinger who is left to shuffle his...feet?...mumble, and shuffle off, stage left.

The end.

Modifié par Getorex, 23 mars 2012 - 01:09 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Hydralysk wrote...

While I appreciate your acknowledgement that people are upset, I'm not sure you realize just why people are actually mad going by your statement.

It's not that we don't understand the ending, most of us can kind of see what you were going for, but the fact of the matter is most people thought the last 10 minutes of mass effect 3 was completely out of whack with the rest of the series. We don't want an explanation on it, and we don't just want a tacked on DA:O epilogue that does nothing to explain away the plot holes and inconsistencies of the end.

This isn't the general ending feedback thread so I won't go into detail, but people aren't happy that you snatched away our ability to chose right at the end. We are mad because now if we ever play ANY game of the trilogy there's niggling voice in our head at every choice going "but it doesn't actually matter in the end" that makes the whole thing seem pointless. We are mad that we are herded into 3 'choices' based on logic that makes no sense to us and that we are not ever given the option to refute. We are mad that the end creates so many plot holes where just 10 minutes prior there were none. We are mad that all our choices seem to do more damage to the galaxy than the reapers ever did.

I can understand being hurt by our criticism, but understand that by ending the series this way you deeply hurt us as well, especially given the multiple statements you as a company gave that specifically said you wouldn't do this. Many people feel genuinely hurt by these endings, some even going to far as to feel physically ill. It says something that you were able to create a universe that people connected to strongly enough to be able to have these responses, that's a great achievement in and of itself, but it should also tell you just how wrong the ending felt for the vast majority of us.

Frankly this feels like a betrayal given the statements I linked above, and many people here are asking how we can trust a company that lied to us. If you leave the endings as is, or just 'explain' it and tack on a 3 minute epilogue, that will be the last straw for a lot of people, myself included.

We WANT to believe you when you say you listen to us, we WANT to believe that you are telling the truth when you tell us our feedback matters to you, but without actions to back it up it just feels like more empty promises. So please, look past the insults that might come your way, look past the pride that you say is injured, and see the fanbase you've cultivated over the past 10 years, fans that desperately want to be able believe in you again. We want Mass Effect to be a series that goes down in history as a success just as much as you do, we love your worlds, we love your characters, we love the dialogue you come up with, but we don't love the last 15 minutes. We're not asking for you to apologize, we just want an alternate ending(s) to this trilogy that we can proudly point to and say "THIS is why I believe Bioware is a great developer, because they always deliever". Please believe me when I say I truly wish for that to happen.

If these forums had +/- rep, I'd come back and hit your post with the plus button ten or twenty times. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

Mole267 wrote...

With all respect, it seems like there were things that got too much attention that were completely unnecessary. Like that IGN bimbo making an appearance in the game, for one. Why couldn't the time and effort put into getting her in the game have been spent on making some other aspect of the game better?

No kidding.  I guess that gushing IGN pre-release coverage was worth it to them, though. 

Is it true that Shep can actually put a move on her?  That's... kinda creepy, multiple ways,  since she's (reportedly) a real person. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

0o-Constance-o0 wrote...

Thirdly,
Kal'Reegar. Introducing him in ME2 with the voice of Adam Baldwin and
giving him a "grunt" approach to the Quarian people was a great idea.
But killing him off with an e-mail in ME3 felt so, so cold and lazy;
lazily wrapping up his story, checking all the boxes marked "loose ends"
like that just doesn't work. Hopefully, you will consider DLC for him.

Kal'Reegar gets whacked in an email? 

Way to waste yet another character pointlessly. 

You had time and money and manpower to pimp in the gaming girl, but an actually interesting and useful character gets offed in an email. 

What the hell happened to you guys over the years?

[Getorex]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Mole267 wrote...

With all respect, it seems like there were things that got too much attention that were completely unnecessary. Like that IGN bimbo making an appearance in the game, for one. Why couldn't the time and effort put into getting her in the game have been spent on making some other aspect of the game better?

No kidding.  I guess that gushing IGN pre-release coverage was worth it to them, though. 

Is it true that Shep can actually put a move on her?  That's... kinda creepy, multiple ways,  since she's (reportedly) a real person. 

I couldn't bring my Shepard to try that dialog choice (shudder) so I don't know if it actually plays out "successfully".  I steered FAR away from that dialog choice in case it would play out. 

The yeoman chick was tempting (cute Brit accent too) but didn't go there either...Chambers was enough for my Shepard but the Chobot?  Ugh.

[hatori1181]

I really dislike how the retake movement is being diminished. I seriously doubt that we are the minority, and holding up meta-critic is not a valid argument. I'm glad that there is going to be some kind of resolution, but let's be honest, you can't half-bake this one. The world is going to be watching how you handle this, and what you do and how you do it will affect how the world views not only video games as a whole, but the people that create them.

[Aradace]

hatori1181 wrote...

I really dislike how the retake movement is being diminished. I seriously doubt that we are the minority, and holding up meta-critic is not a valid argument. I'm glad that there is going to be some kind of resolution, but let's be honest, you can't half-bake this one. The world is going to be watching how you handle this, and what you do and how you do it will affect how the world views not only video games as a whole, but the people that create them.

No, it'll just affect how I view a certain game company and their developers as a whole.

Edit: TW2 hits the 360 next month and if it's as good as I've heard the PC players talking about, then Im pretty sure I may be jumping on the CD Projekt Red (Spelling please? lol) bandwagon

Modifié par Aradace, 23 mars 2012 - 01:53 .

[Kalas82]

There can be no argument if this "ending"-crap is "art" or "good". It`s just wrong, there are so many game-facts wrong, those things are not questionable..they are plain and simply wrong...
If someone can realy convince himself that this "ending" was right the way it turned out is just lost to any argument.

[acidic-ph0]

After reading that statement and thinking about it for a bit... I just want to say, that was the most patronizing and passive aggressive BS that I have ever seen coming from you guys. So Mr. Muzyka, Casey Hudson, and to the rest of you bigwigs up there... KEEP IT UP! I love seeing a company shoot itself in the foot and commit financial suicide.


Another thing... stop hiding behind those "critic" reviews. They are NOT the voice of your audience, and using your critic scores to undermine the message of your fans is childish and misinformed. Game reviews are NOTHING like Movie or Literature reviews... They always cater to the development team usually with a great deal of boot licking included (or PSP licking) for kickbacks and advertising money. IGN, Gamespot, Gametrailers...etc These sites are not reliable for unbiased critiques. So Ray, Casey...etc, ask yourselves, have you ever seen or read a movie review? They are EXTREMELY harsh at times and for good reason, and you should expect that kind of criticism in your industry too. Christ, whenever your company hides behind critic scores, all I can imagine is a little kid saying his crappy chicken-scratch sketch is awesome because his mommy said so and hung it on the refrigerator door. Get over yourselves and listen to the public outcry. Those are your real critics, and from the looks of the Amazon and Metacritic user reviews... you're product has TANKED because of lazy writing all in the last 5 minutes of your game.


Seriously Bioware, act like a responsible company and ADMIT that you made a mistake with these atrocious, lazy, poorly written endings. Or as I like to call it... pulling a Mordin. You KNEW full well that fans would hate this shlock. Any decent writer worth their salt could create a better ending. Hell some of your fans have been able to create a more coherent and context appropriate ending for ME3 in just a couple hours! So don't give us some whiny statement saying that you will "clarify" the endings in future DLC. Any fool can see through your smokescreen. All you basically said is that Bioware will only address the fans in the most cost effective way possible by giving us "clarification" on the crap that we got. You can't polish a turd!


We want the endings to be re-written to fit the themes and messages of Mass Effect 1 and 2. You may be able to placate a few with your paltry compromise but your audience will still remain largely disappointed.
So fine, if you want to keep this ridiculous ending pasted to the end of ME3 like some third graders refrigerator art then fine. Take the cheap and easy way out, and see how long your franchise will last. 
Ask yourself... how long does a play stay on Broadway when at the end all you hear is the audience booing and hissing?


How much money will a movie make in a week when the biggest reaction you recieve is the audience booing at it in the end on opening night? 


And finally how much longer can your company last with this enormous level of unsatisfied customers?

Modifié par acidic-ph0, 23 mars 2012 - 02:04 .

[ile_1979]

Aradace wrote...

hatori1181 wrote...

I really dislike how the retake movement is being diminished. I seriously doubt that we are the minority, and holding up meta-critic is not a valid argument. I'm glad that there is going to be some kind of resolution, but let's be honest, you can't half-bake this one. The world is going to be watching how you handle this, and what you do and how you do it will affect how the world views not only video games as a whole, but the people that create them.

No, it'll just affect how I view a certain game company and their developers as a whole.

Edit: TW2 hits the 360 next month and if it's as good as I've heard the PC players talking about, then Im pretty sure I may be jumping on the CD Projekt Red (Spelling please? lol) bandwagon

TW2 is quite good. It has some replay value (as in chapters can play in entirely different ways) if you are into that sort of thing. Dunno how the controlls would translate to the consoles, but i think the layout is quite console friendly (much to the dismay of the PC crowd). 

[Jills Toy]

Ditto

Rache123 wrote...

ok I confess to being quite deflated in the end, I felt like I'd lost good friends but I guess that just means you guys and girls at Bioware did a great job with the character development.   I've enjoyed the games from the beginning and I think they should be proud of what they have achieved.  It saddens me that the staff have had to put up with abuse on various websites, it's uncalled for and totally unproductive.  I think they have listened to fans in the past - case in point many gamers found traipsing around in the mako a bit of a chore in ME1 and scanning planets for resources in ME2 rather tedious (sorry, but it REALLY was), consequently to a great extent they were scrapped in the next installments.  I admit I wanted a happy ending (yeah I can hear the groans from here, apparently we're not supposed to say that out loud).   Don't think the following are spoilers - I'll let the moderators decide (hi)  - but I wanted someone to find Shepard in the rubble, perhaps revisit him in a cut scene a few months later, battle weary but alive and recouped enough for one last intimate interaction with his LI (if romanced) or at least reunite with his remaining squad (ok its a bit girley but I'm ok with that). I acknowledge that ME has such a wide fan base that encompassing everyone's wish list would be a mammouth task but these are just my personal thoughts........Anyway this is becoming a bit of an epic so suffice to say that when Bioware release their next game whether is be MASS EFFECT 4 (she says optimistically) or an enitrely new game, I'll be in the front of the queue the day it's released because I am that confident that you guys can still deliver - you are all very talented.  oh just one more thing I think the way you handled the ahem "romance" aspect of the game was very tasteful and beautifully scripted.    ok I'll stop now.  x

[White Zombie]

This is my first time posting here, so I'll be brief.

After having played the first 2 games in the series, I was all amped and pumped about ME3. ME3 marked the first time I've ever pre-ordered a game, the Collector's Edition to boot. After having played through the game, I gotta say I was disappointed by how this game ended. The ending sucked. I honestly feel jipped in terms of how much money I spend on this game, but also how all that time I spent playing and developing a several characters from the start meant nothing in the end.

After having read what the co-founder wrote, well, here's to hoping that Bioware fixes this. I just hope they don't charge for the fix, though. I'm kinda of the opinion that Bioware has had quite enough of my money, especially after all the dough I spent on DLC for ME2 and pre-ordering ME3:CE. I don't mean to come across as a whiner or some entitled jagoff, but I honestly feel that I didn't get what I paid for in ME3.

[ratzerman]

I think the core problem with the ending is a profound shift in perspective.

For all its grandeur, Mass Effect was always a very personal, intimate experience. To suddenly strip that intimacy away at the very end, and give us cerebral, somewhat detached finale is wrong. No matter how well intentioned it was, it is a betrayal to everything that came before it.

There will be a certain percentage of fans who can appreciate the ending for the questions it raises, but it will never be accepted by those of us who formed true emotional bonds with our Shepards, and the characters our Shepards loved.

[jlb524]

ratzerman wrote...

I think the core problem with the ending is a profound shift in perspective.

For all its grandeur, Mass Effect was always a very personal, intimate experience. To suddenly strip that intimacy away at the very end, and give us cerebral, somewhat detached finale is wrong. No matter how well intentioned it was, it is a betrayal to everything that came before it.

There will be a certain percentage of fans who can appreciate the ending for the questions it raises, but it will never be accepted by those of us who formed true emotional bonds with our Shepards, and the characters our Shepards loved.

Pretty much this.

Minus the "round up and say goodbye to your friends" part, it was completely detached from that.

Modifié par jlb524, 23 mars 2012 - 03:09 .

[rizuno]

I just wanna say thanks Bioware for ME3, I loved it and it is amazing. I really dislike all the negativity that's being flung your way right now. ME3 is easily one of the best games I've ever played. It's going on my Ocarina gold standard list. That being said, please, please, please, I beg you with the voices of thousands of other gamers, change the ending!!!! I don't need a ' happy' one (though if you can find it in your hearts, mimosas on a beach with Kaiden and a chibi-Shep would make me cry tears of eternal joy), I just want to know, you know...why? How? And possibly, when, exactly these things in the ending happened. Your paying customers are speaking with one voice, with one request. I hypothesize that it would be total business murder suicide not to listen.

[Killjoy Cutter]

White Zombie wrote...

This is my first time posting here, so I'll be brief.

After having played the first 2 games in the series, I was all amped and pumped about ME3. ME3 marked the first time I've ever pre-ordered a game, the Collector's Edition to boot. After having played through the game, I gotta say I was disappointed by how this game ended. The ending sucked. I honestly feel jipped in terms of how much money I spend on this game, but also how all that time I spent playing and developing a several characters from the start meant nothing in the end.

After having read what the co-founder wrote, well, here's to hoping that Bioware fixes this. I just hope they don't charge for the fix, though. I'm kinda of the opinion that Bioware has had quite enough of my money, especially after all the dough I spent on DLC for ME2 and pre-ordering ME3:CE. I don't mean to come across as a whiner or some entitled jagoff, but I honestly feel that I didn't get what I paid for in ME3.

Welcome to DA2, round two.

DA2 was the first game I ever pre-ordered and waited for at the midnight release. 

After that, I said "never again". 

Every time I said "DA2 is a sign of things to come in ME3" I was given a litany of fanboy excuses about how it's different teams, Bioware wouldn't make the same mistakes again, etc, and that I was an idiot for saying it. 

I'll take my appology now, fanboys.

[adneate]

ratzerman wrote...
I think the core problem with the ending is a profound shift in perspective.

For all its grandeur, Mass Effect was always a very personal, intimate experience. To suddenly strip that intimacy away at the very end, and give us cerebral, somewhat detached finale is wrong. No matter how well intentioned it was, it is a betrayal to everything that came before it.

There will be a certain percentage of fans who can appreciate the ending for the questions it raises, but it will never be accepted by those of us who formed true emotional bonds with our Shepards, and the characters our Shepards loved.

Well said. For many the characters were the strongest part of the series and Shepard was our connection to them. To see Shepard forced into suicide and the characters just dumped somewhere feels so incredibly wrong and empty that it sucks the soul out of the entire franchise.

[Killjoy Cutter]

ratzerman wrote...

I think the core problem with the ending is a profound shift in perspective.

For all its grandeur, Mass Effect was always a very personal, intimate experience. To suddenly strip that intimacy away at the very end, and give us cerebral, somewhat detached finale is wrong. No matter how well intentioned it was, it is a betrayal to everything that came before it.

There will be a certain percentage of fans who can appreciate the ending for the questions it raises, but it will never be accepted by those of us who formed true emotional bonds with our Shepards, and the characters our Shepards loved.

Exactly. 

Mass Effect was Shepard's story.  The endings seem to be trying to be something else. 

And they make Shep do things that my Sheps have NEVER done -- surrender, compromise, and make a choice between bad options.  My Sheps have never, never let "fate" or "circumstances" dictate the outcome of a situation.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 23 mars 2012 - 03:24 .

[morrie23]

ratzerman wrote...

I think the core problem with the ending is a profound shift in perspective.

For all its grandeur, Mass Effect was always a very personal, intimate experience. To suddenly strip that intimacy away at the very end, and give us cerebral, somewhat detached finale is wrong. No matter how well intentioned it was, it is a betrayal to everything that came before it.

There will be a certain percentage of fans who can appreciate the ending for the questions it raises, but it will never be accepted by those of us who formed true emotional bonds with our Shepards, and the characters our Shepards loved.

This is exactly my problem. Ripping the ties of friendship and love between Shepard and her crew at the end of the trilogy is just too much for me to accept on top of all the other problems the ending has. The dumping of our crew on Gilligan's Planet comes across as forced and something that was done simply to cause anguish.

[ratzerman]

adneate wrote...
To see Shepard forced into suicide and the characters just dumped somewhere feels so incredibly wrong and empty that it sucks the soul out of the entire franchise.

Exactly. It's such a baffling misfire, I was convinced until yesterday that it was intentional. I assumed it was a part of some grand plan by Bioware, and that the "real" ending was always intended to be released later on.

Then came Ray's statement. Saying that they were "surprised" by the anger and disappointment hit me harder than the ending itself. They actually wanted to end the series this way, and the believed we would like it. I still can't wrap my head around that.

[Comsky159]

Kersca wrote...

You lose any claim to artistic integrity when the final thing we see in the game is an ad for DLC.

So very true. The basic truth of the matter is that Mass Effect is NOT the Mona Lisa.

Narrative purists will always have the choice to ignore  any alteration/expansion upon the ending; just as those who weren't a fan of Bladerunner's happy ending preferred to subscribe to the original vision and those who preferred
 FO3's original finale didn't purchase Broken Steel. Besides in a video game you fall under the impressions of immersion, whereby you are a direct component of "creation of belief", as opposed to the  role of belief "suspension" to which we are subjected in linear narrative. The player has creative license unprecented by a reader of novels or viewer of films. Intrinsically, if this can be done anywhere, it's in a videogame.

So I don't buy the "artistic integrity" argument. Take off that damn Beret and get a grip on reality.

Modifié par Comsky159, 23 mars 2012 - 03:46 .