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[Killjoy Cutter]

ratzerman wrote...

adneate wrote...

To see Shepard forced into suicide and the characters just dumped somewhere feels so incredibly wrong and empty that it sucks the soul out of the entire franchise.

Exactly. It's such a baffling misfire, I was convinced until yesterday that it was intentional. I assumed it was a part of some grand plan by Bioware, and that the "real" ending was always intended to be released later on.

Then came Ray's statement. Saying that they were "surprised" by the anger and disappointment hit me harder than the ending itself. They actually wanted to end the series this way, and the believed we would like it. I still can't wrap my head around that.

Gee, why wouldn't we like this ending? 

All us sci-fans loved Lost, and the new BSG, and Firefly*... why woudn't we love confused, contrived endings full of pointless deaths and unanswered questions.  [/sarcasm]

* See, the movie.  Or don't, if you prefer to not waste your time.


Gah, 

[Jebediah Springfield]

There are worse problems than the ending. The small COD maps and gameplay, graphical hiccups everywhere, withholding Omega for DLC, no harbinger, no role for past squad, and plotholes/poor linking of the story at certain points. The ending was actually one of the better things about the game.

Has anyone compiled a list of criticisms and well thought out user reviews? I think that would be a great thread to have, well thought out criticisms of every aspect of the game. There are a lot of things they can't really change now, but the ending focus is the wrong way to go.

[jlb524]

ratzerman wrote...
Then came Ray's statement. Saying that they were "surprised" by the anger and disappointment hit me harder than the ending itself. They actually wanted to end the series this way, and the believed we would like it. I still can't wrap my head around that.

I can't either.

The characters (including Shepard) are what draw most fans into the series (hell, they devoted basically an entire game to characters -- ME2)

[Sunnie]

ratzerman wrote...

adneate wrote...
To see Shepard forced into suicide and the characters just dumped somewhere feels so incredibly wrong and empty that it sucks the soul out of the entire franchise.

Exactly. It's such a baffling misfire, I was convinced until yesterday that it was intentional. I assumed it was a part of some grand plan by Bioware, and that the "real" ending was always intended to be released later on.

Then came Ray's statement. Saying that they were "surprised" by the anger and disappointment hit me harder than the ending itself. They actually wanted to end the series this way, and the believed we would like it. I still can't wrap my head around that.

This is what happens when you have a serious disconnect between a developer and their consumers and fans. The disconnect in this case is likely only a couple people at BioWare, but those couple people were the decision makers in the franchise.

[Olive Oomph]

jlb524 wrote...

ratzerman wrote...
Then came Ray's statement. Saying that they were "surprised" by the anger and disappointment hit me harder than the ending itself. They actually wanted to end the series this way, and the believed we would like it. I still can't wrap my head around that.

I can't either.

The characters (including Shepard) are what draw most fans into the series (hell, they devoted basically an entire game to characters -- ME2)

QFT!

They pretty much ripped the heart of the series out in the end

[GrandTurian]

ratzerman wrote...

adneate wrote...
To see Shepard forced into suicide and the characters just dumped somewhere feels so incredibly wrong and empty that it sucks the soul out of the entire franchise.

Exactly. It's such a baffling misfire, I was convinced until yesterday that it was intentional. I assumed it was a part of some grand plan by Bioware, and that the "real" ending was always intended to be released later on.

Then came Ray's statement. Saying that they were "surprised" by the anger and disappointment hit me harder than the ending itself. They actually wanted to end the series this way, and the believed we would like it. I still can't wrap my head around that.

I cant either.  I've youtubed the endings a few times now (cant bring myself to play through the last sequence again) and everytime I do I just shake my head at how Bioware thought this was a GOOD way to end the series?  Not only does it ruin the game it ruins the trilogy since no matter what you do with your Shep in the 3 games the ending is still pick a color. 

I dont want them to expand on this with more "closure" I want that damn starchild to be gone gone GONE.

[Pallando]

First of all, I'll be honest : I haven't played the game yet. But because of what happened last year with DA2, I wanted some feedback before buying the game... And from what I can see, I may have been right...

BioWare promised to deliver multiple endings depending on all our past decisions but in the end it appears to be some Deus Ex Machina that results in an out-of-place conclusion.
Bioware now tells us that videogames are an art form (and I agree) but honestly, it really feels like ME3's ending is like Da Vinci letting Francis I choose between those 3 possible Mona Lisa portraits (I know, I'm terrible with Paint ) :

[Heliosas]

Mona Lisa with blue lips...I approve lol

[InvincibleHero]

morrie23 wrote...

ratzerman wrote...

I think the core problem with the ending is a profound shift in perspective.

For all its grandeur, Mass Effect was always a very personal, intimate experience. To suddenly strip that intimacy away at the very end, and give us cerebral, somewhat detached finale is wrong. No matter how well intentioned it was, it is a betrayal to everything that came before it.

There will be a certain percentage of fans who can appreciate the ending for the questions it raises, but it will never be accepted by those of us who formed true emotional bonds with our Shepards, and the characters our Shepards loved.

This is exactly my problem. Ripping the ties of friendship and love between Shepard and her crew at the end of the trilogy is just too much for me to accept on top of all the other problems the ending has. The dumping of our crew on Gilligan's Planet comes across as forced and something that was done simply to cause anguish.

People make too much out of that. Obviously, Joker would know where they are being the crack pilot/navigator he is. They will likely be recued at some point. We don't even know if they crashed on an inhabited planet or not. In any case, their situation is as temporary or as permanent as BW wants.

[Basher of Glory]

Sunnie22 wrote...

ratzerman wrote...

adneate wrote...
To see Shepard forced into suicide and the characters just dumped somewhere feels so incredibly wrong and empty that it sucks the soul out of the entire franchise.

Exactly. It's such a baffling misfire, I was convinced until yesterday that it was intentional. I assumed it was a part of some grand plan by Bioware, and that the "real" ending was always intended to be released later on.

Then came Ray's statement. Saying that they were "surprised" by the anger and disappointment hit me harder than the ending itself. They actually wanted to end the series this way, and the believed we would like it. I still can't wrap my head around that.

This is what happens when you have a serious disconnect between a developer and their consumers and fans. The disconnect in this case is likely only a couple people at BioWare, but those couple people were the decision makers in the franchise.

A disconnect, a loss of grip on reality... this seems really to be the case, no matter of the perspective one looks at all this.

But somehow I still cannot believe, that they really thought, this is a good "artistically valuable" ending. I really think, they planned something - like payed ending-DLC etc. - and must now face a miserable failure.

[SalsaDMA]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

DarkHod wrote...

He then brings up the bullying incident at the end in a way which subtetly relates it to all people who are complaining of the ending, demonizing us all.

After one of their writers is severely bullied.....

After their devs and writers receive death threats....

After some tool files a complaint against them to the US Federal Trade Commission...

...they have every right to be mad and hurt towards an ungrateful fanbase.


To go to such disturbing lengths over video games is demented. They really should tell all of us to eff off.

I can't believe how you put someone utilizing their given rights as being the same as someone bullying or making death threats.

Way to distort things...

[Seifer006]

Has Anyone else noticed how the "minor characters" Voice Actors/Actresses

are different?

For Example: Barla Von and rest of the volus's......they don't sound the same. Even Din Korlack the Volus Ambassador from ME1

[Dreez]

Hey Ray.  Alltho i really don't believe a thing you said in your text, afaik, you've lost most of your credibility with
me as a fan of Bioware. But i will give you the benefit of a doubt.    So here is a Copy & paste from a thread i
made concerning this subject which has greatly involved both camps of fans.

You should read it btw.... there's a lot of emotions in there from fans.

Whether or not you enjoyed the conclusion to Mass Effect 3 (personally I feel
it tarnished an otherwise masterful series) please take a look at the
pre-release quotes below from websites and interviews with the game's
developers, writers and producers.

Does all that talk of meaningful player choice, multiple significantly
different endings and closure for the characters and series not seem,
at the very least, strange?

I believe Bioware can be legitimately accused of, at best, fudging the
truth if not outright deceit given the inconsistency between notions
of choice, closure etc. expressed before the game was released and
the ending as it currently stands.

In my opinion Bioware produced a badly written, ill-conceived shambles
of an ending riddled with plot holes and logical inconsistencies but
even if you loved the final moments of this great game do you really
think what was stated in the interviews below has been proved true?

Maybe Walters, Gamble, Hudson et al will be proved right when a decent
ending is released via (presumably free) DLC that explains the
original ending was just some sort of hallucination/indoctrination.
I'm not holding my breath waiting for that though.


Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”


EDIT: Couple more interesting quotes I found, enjoy......or not.


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html

Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever
before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle
for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike
Gamble.


In an inteview with NowGamer at Gamescom, we asked if BioWare was taking risks with Mass Effect 3's
plot,
including a negative ending in which the Reapers win. Gamble simply
said, "Yes". We asked him again to confirm what he had just said and he
said, "Yes".


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....ry_details.html


"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play
all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll
still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a
totally different way of playing"


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/

“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and
the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all
of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to
live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”

Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And
even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to
some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending
where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things
- it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the
final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who
plays it.”

Now.  If you would so kindly explain each and everyone of these links, the text of the promises given
about ME3 and the series, mostly the part where its said clearly that we would have several very different endings.

Also the parts which says that each of the desicions we take, will affect the great saga of ME.

[Killjoy Cutter]

SalsaDMA wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

DarkHod wrote...

He then brings up the bullying incident at the end in a way which subtetly relates it to all people who are complaining of the ending, demonizing us all.

After one of their writers is severely bullied.....

After their devs and writers receive death threats....

After some tool files a complaint against them to the US Federal Trade Commission...

...they have every right to be mad and hurt towards an ungrateful fanbase.

To go to such disturbing lengths over video games is demented. They really should tell all of us to eff off.

I can't believe how you put someone utilizing their given rights as being the same as someone bullying or making death threats.

Way to distort things...

Indeed.

And those endings and their response to us not "appreciating what they've given us"?  They've already told us all to "eff off". 

[ile_1979]

ratzerman wrote...

I think the core problem with the ending is a profound shift in perspective.

For all its grandeur, Mass Effect was always a very personal, intimate experience. To suddenly strip that intimacy away at the very end, and give us cerebral, somewhat detached finale is wrong. No matter how well intentioned it was, it is a betrayal to everything that came before it.

There will be a certain percentage of fans who can appreciate the ending for the questions it raises, but it will never be accepted by those of us who formed true emotional bonds with our Shepards, and the characters our Shepards loved.

Seconded! What happened to all that build your story and build your Shepard. Were we just teased?

[Mole267]

I think all the stuff they wanted to do in ME3 originally was just too tall an order, and they couldn't do it in the end... So they just hastily threw an ending together, and hoped everyone would've forgotten about all that they claimed the ending would be.

[sirxlaughs]

My problem with the game isn't the endings. It's the gaping plot holes and glaring questions left by the endings. The game ends with a huge question mark, and pop-up that basically says, "Buy our DLC to find out more!" I can't tell if this is EA's money-machine influence or Bioware jumping the shark.

[ratzerman]

Anyone else scared of the word "closure?" It seems to be the term that Bioware has fixated on as what we all want. But to me, closure means "epilogue." If all we get out of this is a few screens of text explaining what happened... that's just going to make it worse.

I think most of us will gladly wait however long it takes for Casey and his team to craft a memorable, heartfelt coda for this game. We are not entitled fools, demanding immediate capitulation from Bioware.

We're just big fans with broken hearts.

[ile_1979]

ratzerman wrote...

Anyone else scared of the word "closure?" It seems to be the term that Bioware has fixated on as what we all want. But to me, closure means "epilogue." If all we get out of this is a few screens of text explaining what happened... that's just going to make it worse.

I think most of us will gladly wait however long it takes for Casey and his team to craft a memorable, heartfelt coda for this game. We are not entitled fools, demanding immediate capitulation from Bioware.

We're just big fans with broken hearts.

Indeed, i would wait for another year to get the game they advertized. Heck, when they said it is delayed last year, i was actually releaved. I expected they woul use the time to remove buggs and polish the game. Maybe even add extra content. I guess the joke was on me

[Basher of Glory]

Mole267 wrote...

I think all the stuff they wanted to do in ME3 originally was just too tall an order, and they couldn't do it in the end... So they just hastily threw an ending together, and hoped everyone would've forgotten about all that they claimed the ending would be.

That's a fair assumption. It was simply too much to provide for all contingencies.

Now imagine, what had happened, if they told us about this, like

"Folks, we couldn't do it in time. So we made a transient ending, but there will be some FREE DLC in near future, which will cover the true endings we always planned and which you always wanted and deserved."

I bet, the fanbase would have doubled within a day  

[Seifer006]

It's Mass Effect 3.........and yet Bioware I would hope that Squadmates be a lot more Intelligent. In Mass Effect 2 this was brought up due to a lack of intelligence in Mass Effect 1. And yet Mass Effect 2 squad mates are uselss.........

and YET, Mass Effect 3 there's no change. I give commands to my squad mates and they still don't do nothing. they sit back while I do all the fighting. I find this very unappealing to enjoy the game........

again. this should have been fixed since Mass Effect 2........

[merttol]

I can't believe how Bioware or/and Casey Hudson team let that happen... I can't really believe it.

I thought at the beginning --after ME3 box came to my house-- this will gonna be real bad cause I didn't even install my game from my physical copy! There was no option to use the DVD and customer service told me "Your serial number is working by you, you can't unable to download from DVD, you must download it from your library." Anyways, I downloaded it. God sake! That was really an interesting and stupid problem I ever seen and I didn't even start the game.

So, I finished the game and I shocked again. Actually, I shocked many times while playing the game. Rachni Queen, Shadow Broker DLC choices and other stuffs just an illusion except few conversations... I don't wanna talk about the bugs, glitches (sound bugs, freezing etc.) they are always there since the ME1 but I always ignored for the story. I wanna talk about the basic things;

Remember what Casey Hudson had to say about the Mass Effect 3:

   

For us and for you, Mass Effect 3 had to live up to a lot of expectations, not only for a great gaming experience, but for a resolution to the countless storylines and decisions you’ve made as a player since the journey began in 2007. So we designed Mass Effect 3 to be a series of endings to key plots and storylines, each culminating in scenes that show you the consequences of your actions. You then carry the knowledge of these consequences with you as you complete the final moments of your journey.

I'm sorry but this looks like a BULLSH*T right now! I didn't expect happy ending, good ending, bad ending or whatever you say. It doesn't matter for me. I expected like many of us an ending with our choices. Your team said that! You can do it with Deus-Ex ending, Matrix ending, Star Wars ending, Star Trek ending, Galactica ending, which one you want... But now, I guess, it's too late and you know it.

Can anyone say, at the moment, Casey Hudson said true? No?! Then he lied to us. He lied to all community, he lied to all fans... This is the real problem which is more important than end of the game.

Dear Casey Hudson, Dear Dr. Ray Muzyka, did you really play the Mass Effect 3 with ME1+ME2 save?

Now, you saying;

...with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better.

Yes, you can proud of your team for the reviews, BRAVO! But please be honest, what your team said and what your team made at the "end".

And one more reason to proud of, you sold us a game that was not ready. Thanks.

[ratzerman]

Sunnie22 wrote...
This is what happens when you have a serious disconnect between a developer and their consumers and fans. The disconnect in this case is likely only a couple people at BioWare, but those couple people were the decision makers in the franchise.

I completely agree. The problem is that Bioware can (and does) point to those who did like the ending as proof that they did connect with their audience. :-(

[Seifer006]

ratzerman wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...
This is what happens when you have a serious disconnect between a developer and their consumers and fans. The disconnect in this case is likely only a couple people at BioWare, but those couple people were the decision makers in the franchise.

I completely agree. The problem is that Bioware can (and does) point to those who did like the ending as proof that they did connect with their audience. :-(

I too Agree with this