2054 réponses à ce sujet

[ecarden]

We'll see what they say at PAX, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Haasth]

Vaktathi wrote...
but at the same time this is still *very* deflective (please don't quote us industry review scores, too many of us do not have faith in such sources to accurately rate games) 

I think that is pretty much the point.
The fact he even mentioned big industry reviewers practically proves this article's main goal is to win over easily persuaded people. Because those are the exact kind of people that listen to those reviewers. Most people that aren't realize how full of **** those reviewers almost always are.

I think pretty much anyone else would agree that big companies like IGN are full of **** whenever they talk about Mass Effect 3 or almost any other game. 

[InvincibleHero]

Super.Sid wrote...

It means that they are sticking with their endings and expanding it to provide more closure. Indoctrination theory is ruled out. A sad end is still on the cards.

That's how I interpret it as well.

[kbct]

sillyrobot wrote...

Unfortunately, attempting to maintain the "artistic integrity" of crap leaves it looking and smelling like well, crap.

Agreed. You can't polish a turd. I don't think any attempts to flesh-out the god-child will be successful.

[DragonRageGT]

I still love the game, it is a brilliant piece in the ME story but I just can't replay it because of those ridiculous 5 points in the final 5-10 minutes that so many players and magazines described so well:

This is one I like and express exactly what I think: http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

The introduction of a god-child-new-character in the last minutes of the game and the ridiculous circular logic presented as the motive without any real explanation doesn't belong in a Bioware game. Heck, the whole NWN original campaign is way better than that!

As for the people who can't control their anger and let rage drive their actions, there are much more important issues in this planet worth some indignation. Plus it's half way for a heart attack, ulcer or cancer.

[UntamedZer0]

EvilTaxi wrote...

If someone was willing to file an FTC report, I'd bet a month's salary that someone can find a willing ambulance chaser to file a lawsuit.

You're right though. This is America, the land of hot coffee lawsuits and other such gems like this: http://www.democrata...dyssey=nav|head 

All goes back to America being the 27th dumbest nation on Earth. I have been pushing locally for something to change about elderly drivers and handicapped drivers. They are a threat to themselves and the world around them.

But suing the restaurant because grandma shouldn't have been alowed to drive is simply silly.

Good point, but thats why they have legal departments and ods are it wouldn't hold up in court.

All of this is just one more example of running from responsibility by hiding behind every excuse you can think of.

I.E: Lack of integrity.

You can paint it any color you want, make any excuse you want, but the end result is the lack of quads to stand up and admit you made a mistake. We are all taught this by our fathers (or would like to think so) that you need to man up and when you do something wrong and don't run from it. If this isn't being taught nowadays (which it certainly appears that it is not) you have a bunch of pansies hiding behind excuses, trying to push blame in every direction other than the one it needs to travel in, then immaturely calling names.

I believe we have all seen some level of this on both sides. What bothers me is that it is shown at higher levels within a company.

It's not jsut Bioware, it appears to be the American and Canadian way.

To hide behind every excuse you can think of till they are all stripped away, and you are left standing bare with no protection, and sadly no integrity.

[wileydsp]

We've received a message from the co-founder of BioWare. That's amazing, This entire ordeal has been incredibly fascinating to follow. I have my own issues with the logic behind the ending, and I disliked the ambiguity of the entire thing. But, at least I did find an ending that I felt accomplished what I wanted to do. Would I like the ending to be fleshed out? Sure I would. But to completely change it I don't know if that's the best of ideas either.
At any rate, this is a response from one of the highest members of BioWare. I for one am anxious to see what they have planned to satisfy the issues raised by the community, and for the future en devours. This is an exciting fiasco for sure.

BioWare has addressed the people with issues the best way they can at the moment.  People, and a great vast amount of people, are still playing the game.  Let's relax, take a step back and let the process run it's course.  Have faith, and let's back off of the hatred if possible. 

Modifié par wileydsp, 21 mars 2012 - 04:01 .

[Muezick]

LGTX wrote...

Muezick wrote...

I'm posting this because I think it's an interesting point.

Anonymous wrote...

They're getting really, really good at making non-statements now. That this exists is a very good thing, it's showing that BW is on edge now and they're desperately trying to contain the raging mobs. Don't let this fool you, though, it was cleverly written and worded so that it sounds like they're going to do something about it without actually promising anything. In other words, it's yet another PR trick. Hopefully people will be smart enough not to get fooled by this at this point. I'd post this in that BSN PR thread but I have no intention of buying ME3.

This anon has a good point. The whole point of this letter is to calm people who are raging down without actually giving the ragers what they want.

It's why i'm weary of it.

Did you read the post? They ARE promising ACTUAL content, and more info in April. It's not PR talk, it's either the truth or not, and Bioware wouldn't start lying outright, especially now, would they? =) just wait for a bit.

It is PR talk, that is exactly what it is.

I assume you are referencing this comment.

Dr. Ray said...

Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. 

Then he goes on later to say that they're doing this in addition to what they already had planned, so you are right, it's content they are adding (Supposedly, we still have no promises and I don't consider this an official statement since it doesn't have dates or details associated to said content, just a vague statement about adding content) in addition to content they were going to add. It is a direct response, but that STILL doesn't mean it's going to be what the majority wanted, a new ending. 

This is not a new ending folks, this is them adding on to the current ending. 

I will be preparing to be disapointed and if they want to charge people for it, then I will just have to catch it on youtube, because as I've said before, I'm not giving Bioware another dollar after this, which makes me sad because I loved mass effect and I loved mass effect 3, but the ending makes it ALL worthless. Completely invalidates the entire series. I don't generally hate on things like this, I liked the ending to the Matrix trillogy for example, so I'm generally an open minded person, but Mass effect isn't a traditional game and it is not a movie. It's unique in what it delivers. one persons play through of ME3 might be radically different when compared to anothers in terms of experience and in game occurances, but no mater what you did or how you played, EVERYBODY got the same ending, and that's what people are pissed off most about. 

Blizzard posted something recently about character models and being unable to please 100% of the fan base, which I think applies heavily to this situation, but it isn't JUST the endings. It's Casey Hudson saying we're getting 16 different endings, it's casey hudson saying the endings will spiral off into radically different directions, it's casey Hudson promising we wont get an "A, B, or C" ending. It's them scrapping the fairly decent endings and replacing it with this in November, It's bioware being absolutely and completely lazy about extremely important things, like the endings, or Tali's face (Which doesn't bother me -that- much). I mean, is it so much to ask that we see Quarian's in the game? How is that a big deal? I don't browse these forums that much, but it's pretty obvious to me everybody wanted to see Tali's face in game.

[BlackPhoenyx]

For my part it's clear that, the ending put aside, ME3 is really the most OUTSTANDING game I've ever played to. No questions about that.

Now regarding the endings... It just looks like it misses a whole part, especially in one particular ending, with a hidden sequence. As if they sold us a game, without putting the ending in it... So I just like to know what is this part.

(defender of the Endoctrination Theory).

[ashwind]

Super.Sid wrote...

It means that they are sticking with their endings and expanding it to provide more closure. Indoctrination theory is ruled out. A sad end is still on the cards.

Really do not get people and the stupid loco Indoctrination theory. The only reason I can think of is it being a product of extreme desperation. 

So, I will pretend for a second that Bioware has gone spineless and take that loco theory. Where does that place the game?

We are place right before the finale! What does that mean? There is still no ending. So Bioware need to make a whole new level + whole new ending. How long will they need? How much will it cost?

MOST importantly, what if this "new" ending post loco-indoctrination does not satisfy a huge portion of the fans again? Make a 3rd?

I sincerely hope Bioware will go its own way. Defend their artistic-version, make something original and enhance on the ending in their own way.

[matchboxmatt]

Kersca wrote...

matchboxmatt wrote...

Kersca wrote...

You lose any claim to artistic integrity when the final thing we see in the game is an ad for DLC.

I disagree. Without that message, most people would be completely done with the game. With a nihilist ending, most people would assume Mass Effect is completely over and retire the game. Saying that DLC will be made available implies that although the story can be finished, mid-game content will still be provided.

Who is going to pay money for mid game content when the ending leaves a bad taste in most people's mouth?   I'm going to retake Omega for Aria so i can accomplish what?   It makes no difference and is incredibly out of place with what you are trying to do.

My point is, if they plan on DLC they are going to have to tinker, retool, or outright change the ending or it won't be worth the time and effort they put into it.   

They didn't anticipate that the ending would get such a negative reaction. If the ending was proper, then most people would have the incentive to play the DLC.

[Prism]

Indoctrination theory is not ruled out. As I saw it from the beginning, it can work in two ways: it's either real (aka they meant to do it like this), or it isn't but they still use it for a dlc. Either one is acceptable by me.

Modifié par Prismvg, 21 mars 2012 - 04:03 .

[Drogonion]

Overall, imho, a classy professional response.  

Personally, I think he should avoid defending the integrity and dedication of the ME team.  Most folks here terribly irate about the ending would never question this.  Plainly ignoring trolls is the best policy I think, as these folks deflect discussion from the merits and degrade things to the ad hominem.  

In addition, I tend to feel he is pushing the artistic integrity analogy a little far for my taste.  A game series that includes an advertisement for DLC at its conclusion (and I have no problem with this) shows the limits of pushing it too far - ME is largely a commercial entertainment product.  The ME series is filled with tremendous artistic merit - it's artwork, voicing, story - but a satisfying narrative finale is arguably where the developers should have entertained the least amount of "artistic license."  

Popular narratives follow conventions regardless of how much artistic freedom one would like to exercise otherwise.  The ME3 finale is a literal example of narrative failure.  I've written a little on this here on these forums, but I would link the best analysis I've yet read on this failure in the hopes that Dr. Muzyka does not miss it: http://calitreview.com/24673 .  

The ME series created by Bioware is in my opinion the most epic, glorious expression of interactive storytelling created by man, and all glory well-deserved to Dr. Muzyka and his company for bringing it to fruition.  But this is exactly why fans are clamoring for the addition of more options to the endings.  To take an art analogy, it is like being delivered a Van Gogh with the center of the canvass - the heart of the thing - being cut out.  Such a thing cries out for fulfillment.  

[devil_foetus]

They couldn't possibly ignore the universal scorn the ending has generated, for a series spanning 5 years and 3 games.

The ending invalidated playing the series as a whole, the reaction has damaged the company and more importantly for them the future earning potential of the series.

Its good they have admitted they got it wrong and are going to rectify the problem.

[Tuzaya]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

TempShark wrote...

Ray, I would LOVE to play the game and see the ending, but PLEASE address the face import issue!

He didn't mention that at all!

This.

Double this!

[greywardencommander]

 
'the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. We’re already working hard to do that.'

'current endings' mean anything?

Modifié par greywardencommander, 21 mars 2012 - 04:02 .

[-fufu-]

i loved the game I really did...and I don´t mind it isn´t happy ending...BUT...there are some thing that were really unlogical...how could my team from Earth magicly teleport back on the Normandy? and why are they running away? and in the arrival when you destroy the mass relay, entire system is destroyed too...why not now? and most importantly what happened after sheprd dies? what happened to the krogan..to quarian and geth? and what happened to the humanity? we loved these characters through 3 games and we don´t know what happened to them? it is just :shepard dies. the end
how can this be defended with words "it´s art"?
I respect Bioware team..I know how much work it takes to create something as wonderful as these games...and the whole game was fantastic..but the ending was very disappointing at least...I never expected that it would end good but I never expected this...
I´m glad you´re looking into it

Modifié par -fufu-, 21 mars 2012 - 04:04 .

[Rob Sabbaggio]

I still struggle to believe that writers of the high quality that Bioware have collectively decided that a deus ex machina ending like they gave us was the best ending for a hard sci-fi space opera, that up to then had placed great store by your actions, and showed you the impacts of them.

Probably the most disappointing thing is the fact that the the endings dont feel different enough, dont feel impacted enough by your actions. The lack of follow-through on this means replayability is sabotaged, and DLC is pointless in the wider scheme of things.

Still, that has been done to death. What is important is what is done now. And whether they intended or not, there is enough evidence for indoctrination theory to be a plausible end. I mean, otherwise why have the dream sequences at all? And if indoctrination can be used to brush away the last sequence, then a free DLC that shows what happened afterwards (either in video images like Fallout 3, a narration like Varric in DA2, or simple text like in DAO) and explains some of the consequences of your actions (and the plotholes), would be acceptable to me.

As it stands right now, I had the ending spoiled and I cant even bring myself to complete the game once now, which is extraordinary given how much I usually play Bioware games. And indeed ME3, what I played anyway, was absolutely superb. But the ending sabotages any desire I have to finish it.

[gabrien]

Mass Effect 3 is hands down the most exceptional, mind blowing game I have played in all my years of gaming. Sure, the ending left me wanting more. Mainly answers.

From start to end (though my emotions were more of 'what the f**k! at the ending) the game took me on the most intense, emotional, mentally draining journey I have ever experienced. Never before has a game evoked so much emotion from me. At times I had to put the game aside and come back to reality for a while (Yeah.. I REALLY get into my gaming. Not ashamed, I am a gamer girl to my core).

Not just the story but the game play was superb in my opinion. I felt myself exhausted after long bouts of battles that required more than just pulling out a gun and shooting till things are dead, and more exhausted, but emotionally as the story played out.

Mass effect has always taken my breath away. And I knew number 3 would do that all the more. Right up to just before the ending I was in love with the game. Love like I love an artist and their art that can strike intense emotion in me. Which is what Mass Effect is. An amazing work of art.

Sadly it has, in my opinion, the worst game ending I could have imagined. No.. I probably couldn't have imagined that actually..

It took a LOT of consideration for the rest of the game and its brilliance to not let the ending ruin it for me.

I still love bioware, but they hurt me. Kinda like my puppy who bites. It upsets me but I am not going to put him down because of it. Just like I wont stop buying games made by bioware because they screwed one of their games endings on me/us/all the fans who cared about it.

[Elen]

The Mass Effect team, like other teams across the BioWare Label within EA, consists of passionate people who work hard for the love of creating experiences that excite and delight our fans. I’m honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback.

Did I miss something? I have not seen anyone respond to constructive feedback or feedback of any sort. In fact, Casey Hudson & co. have been completely avoiding answering any questions and have just been feeding the same "critics loved it!" line.

Modifié par Elen, 21 mars 2012 - 04:05 .

[DeinonSlayer]

InvincibleHero wrote...
From that it looks like they are going to offer exposition which many claim to want and not offer any new endings or change the ones they do have. A fair compromise which people might not accept and few would pay for. They will only pay for the ending they want.

At this point, evidently, most would be willing to pay for the ending they want. They're taking action on the endings, and that's a very welcome revelation, but I don't think simply "clarifying" the endings which are already in place would be enough. People want to see that their actions made a tangible difference. That was the promise all along. But with the Normandy crew and the larger galaxy both invariably abandoned in their current state, no amount of exposition will redeem ME3's replay value unless other outcomes are possible.

Captain_Brian commissioned a series of polls, several of which illustrate in no uncertain terms the outcomes fans want the chance to earn. 85% want there to be a chance for Shepard and crew/LI to reunite, 4% oppose it. 84% want a chance to save the relay network, 5% oppose it. Solid majorities present themselves elsewhere, and each of these have gathered thousands of votes. Bioware would be well-advised to take these numbers into consideration, because they'll really only get one chance to fix this. They stand to lose many of us if it isn't done properly.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 21 mars 2012 - 04:07 .

[DragonRageGT]

Prismvg wrote...

Indoctrination theory is not ruled out. As I saw it from the beginning, it can work in two ways: it's either real (aka they meant to do it like this), or it isn't but they still use it for a dlc. Either one is acceptable by me.

I.T. would be the only logical explanation for all the plot holes and absurd scenes we see in the final minutes of the game.

Modifié par DragonRageGT, 21 mars 2012 - 04:06 .