2054 réponses à ce sujet

[Beta-Breech]

About the argument as to wether or not this was a commissioned piece of work:

Seeing as that before the game was released there were many pre orders made when the game was made available to pre order. So well over a year ago, Bioware made money for the work that wasn't yet finished, they made promises as to what this would contain. That is in a round about way commissioned work.

I'd be content right now if Bioware said that the they were rushed for time and that the final act of the game or at least some content that would really bring real closure was being made and they elaborated further on this. We don't need things explained about the current ending, there's very little you can do to make any of it really make sense without going for the indoctrination theory. Space magic and re-writing the universe you set will only make people more angry.

I'm past the anger stage I'm just very disappointed by what felt from the start of this game like rushed work. It played out much less like an RPG but more like an on the rails shooter. Where was the exploration? I didn't like that I spent time getting war assets that you never see at the end, that you never really get to experience.

Modifié par Beta-Breech, 26 mars 2012 - 10:05 .

[White Zombie]

After having sat down and thought about what I've seen and read, this video here pretty much sums up how I feel.

Modifié par White Zombie, 26 mars 2012 - 10:01 .

[venom56321489]

I agree with Beta Breech in "It played out much less like an RPG but more like an on the rails shooter."

[Beta-Breech]

New video leak of the new endings:

[Getorex]

venom56321489 wrote...

I agree with Beta Breech in "It played out much less like an RPG but more like an on the rails shooter."

That is a common complaint.  Bioware appears to be stepping back from RPGs and towards FPS and/or MMO.  They are focusing more on ME multiplayer than on the actual game content itself.  Multiplayer has no real plot, no dialog, no thought, no conclusion.  MMO will merely turn ME into a variant of WoW.  It will be a hollowed out shell, a "husk" if you will, of what it was and what it could have been.

Bioware is dead, Mass Effect is dead.

[Montcristo]

garf wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

SimonM72 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

It's official. Looks like Shepard is still going to puss out at the last minute, no matter what.



Your customer base is giving you one last chance to fix this, Bioware, and you're blowing it.

If you don't do this right, it's over. It's done. You've already taught me not to trust pre-orders, Bioware. Now you're teaching me not to trust you. If alienating half of your customer base was part of your "vision," that's fine. You'll get to eat the consequences in the form of loss of future sales. I would have bought mission DLC for ME3, had we been provided with a destination worth reaching - just as I did for ME2, but it looks like that's not part of your plan. You can keep your "art." I'll be keeping my money in the future. I won't pay for pre-ending DLC which serves only to make the walk off the end of the cliff slightly longer.

A pleasure doing business with you.

It breaks my heart to /sign this, and for what feels like (looking at that @MassEffect twitter feed) what could of been for the potential of this franchise.
I wanted it to be bigger than StarWars and this original trilogy is absolutely core to what the rest of the franchise will revolve around.  I just don't understand that tweet considering the scale of not only the uproar, but also the sheer extent to which the community has tried to help you fix this Bioware.

Cosigned.

Signed and 'voted'(see my sig)

Please I ask all people here to not say things like the ones above. I undestard you all and Iam sad as well regarding the end of ME3. But Bioware already said they are trying to solve this. And for now we have to wait for their news. They will fix this people but we cannot keep attacking them, this is not a solution. Let´s let them work and see what will come out of this. We have to believe that they will make a good job on this DLC.

[Getorex]

@Montcristo: Too late. Not only did they bork the ending, they have REPEATEDLY insulted the majority of people who hate the ending! They have to PROVE themselves now, not be given a lot of slack. The noose is around their neck, it is now up to them to prove that the rope should be removed.

There is NO WAY they can actually FIX the ending in just a couple weeks between now and 1st week of April. No way. They have REPEATEDLY stated they will expand on the current ending so people can get "closure" as if that is what we wanted all along! THEIR version of "closure" (that means death and sadness no matter what even though that is NOT what closure refers to...plus, closure is a myth. You NEVER get actual closure on anything that caused real pain so it is a fool's errand anyway).

[Aftershox]

News flash, they wrote the game so yes we get their version of closure.

[BeefoTheBold]

Montcristo wrote...
Please I ask all people here to not say things like the ones above. I undestard you all and Iam sad as well regarding the end of ME3. But Bioware already said they are trying to solve this. And for now we have to wait for their news. They will fix this people but we cannot keep attacking them, this is not a solution. Let´s let them work and see what will come out of this. We have to believe that they will make a good job on this DLC.

Here's the problems with your reasoning:

1. It assumes that Bioware has credit/trust in the bank remaining with their customer base. After fiasco after fiasco ranging from the entirety of Dragon Age 2 and Mike Laidlaw's awful spin interview, mediocre to awful DLC like Witch Hunt and The Arrival, and good but ultimately buggy and beta state releases like Awakenings, then finally this interview...trust in Bioware is in incredibly short supply.

2. They're "fixing" a problem that ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT REQUIRE FIXING and doing so without any apology in the first place.

This is really key. Anyone who has ever worked with customers know that THE VERY FIRST thing you do when you mess up is acknowledge and apologize. Bioware isn't doing this. They're basically saying, "Look at how awesome our critic reviews are. We're sorry you're too dumb to appreciate our genius. We're not going to redo the endings, we'll explain them more slowly to you so they don't go over your heads."

It's like that episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where Q puts mankind on trial and says, "Hoping your ape-like race would demonstrate some growth, give some indication that your minds have room for expansion."

We were promised multiple distinct endings where our choices would actually matter. We have not gotten that. We were promised clarity and explanations of everything. Instead we have plot holes and retconns of Reaper sized proportions.

And it all ends with the words "Downloadable Content" as you get dumped back onto the bridge of your ship. Literally, those are the last words you hear from Bioware after a truly awful ending that is 180 degrees the opposite of what we promised.

At this point we don't even know whether the DLC will actually be free or not. All we know is that we were promised ME3 would wrap things up and our choices would matter. Neither is the case.

And that's not even getting into insults to our intelligence like hiring an IGN writer to be in the game (gee, wonder if that impacted their review and coverage of the game? Can you say conflict of ****ing interest?) and the absolutely abominable way they handled Tali's face reveal. (Only my favorite character of the entire series and things fans have been anticipating since the first game.)

Bioware is out of money in the bank here with the customers. They are deeply in debt right now.

Get it right the VERY FIRST TIME. Or, if you don't, then don't require the gaming industry equivalent of worldwide riots and hunger strikes before you acknowledge an issue and STILL DON'T APOLOGIZE!

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 26 mars 2012 - 02:21 .

[Dreez]

October 11, 2007 - Bioware sold their soul to the Devil.
March 6, 2012 - The Devil collects.

Modifié par Dreez, 26 mars 2012 - 03:43 .

[Aftershox]

You know, on one hand its great to be a fan of something thats create such a passionate fanbase that people get this angry/upset/dissapointed when the finish product doesn't live up to their expectations. On the other hand its pain embarssing to be part of a fandom that goes so over the top about something like this. Not liking the ending is fair enough, BioWare was never going to be able to please everyone, but some of the comments I've been reading about the ending are just...I don't have the words.
Things like "I'm selling ALL my BioWare games" and people saying how they don't treat the fans rights. Its just going way to far. And getting a refund because you don't like the ending?! Demending change so suit how you think it should have ended? Thats just insulting. On top of that they say they are going to try and change/add too the ending to please people and people STILL moan. I just can't get my head around it.
I guess I'm lucky I liked the ending and hopefully it won't change too much.
The face import bug, I understand why people would get angry. It was a problem. Again I didn't think it was a bad of a problem as was made out, but I get why people would get angry about.
But the ending is the ending, and for one thank BioWare for all the enjoy ment I've gotten from the entire Mass Effect franchise. From the games alone I've left over a soild month of my life and I don't regret a moment of it.
I'm sure I'll be called a Fanboy or other less kind things for this, but there are enough negative comments about this whole affair so I thought I'd redress the balance a bit.
Keep up the good work BioWare, I look forward to where the Mass Effect Universe goes from here.

[BeefoTheBold]

Aftershox wrote...

You know, on one hand its great to be a fan of something thats create such a passionate fanbase that people get this angry/upset/dissapointed when the finish product doesn't live up to their expectations. On the other hand its pain embarssing to be part of a fandom that goes so over the top about something like this. Not liking the ending is fair enough, BioWare was never going to be able to please everyone, but some of the comments I've been reading about the ending are just...I don't have the words.
Things like "I'm selling ALL my BioWare games" and people saying how they don't treat the fans rights. Its just going way to far. And getting a refund because you don't like the ending?! Demending change so suit how you think it should have ended? Thats just insulting. On top of that they say they are going to try and change/add too the ending to please people and people STILL moan. I just can't get my head around it.
I guess I'm lucky I liked the ending and hopefully it won't change too much.
The face import bug, I understand why people would get angry. It was a problem. Again I didn't think it was a bad of a problem as was made out, but I get why people would get angry about.
But the ending is the ending, and for one thank BioWare for all the enjoy ment I've gotten from the entire Mass Effect franchise. From the games alone I've left over a soild month of my life and I don't regret a moment of it.
I'm sure I'll be called a Fanboy or other less kind things for this, but there are enough negative comments about this whole affair so I thought I'd redress the balance a bit.
Keep up the good work BioWare, I look forward to where the Mass Effect Universe goes from here.

I'm not going to call you any names, but you're utterly missing the point. People aren't just upset that the ending (singular) was atrocious.

They're upset because:

1. Bioware lied. Openly and repeatedly. On what fans could expect to get from their endings. We were promised our choices across three whole games would matter. We were promised closure and explanation. We were promised sixteen different endins. We got none of them.

2. Because Bioware lied, and it isn't the first time, it is NOT going too far to say Bioware doesn't treat their customers right.

[goten11756]

We still haven't heard an apology from Bioware regarding their deceptive lies when they first advertised this game...

Instead, all we got was, "This is ART", we will TRY to clarify our ending for you dumb people who can't understand ART, and we look forward into having you all purchase our future DLCs regardless of your opinion on the ending...

I seriously wonder if they even have a PR department or anyone in the company who understands what the backlash is about.... Their statements are only there to insult those that disagree with their view on the ending (which IS the MAJORITY). *Those that think it is not the majority need to seriously review what statistics is, and how it works...*

[Aftershox]

Personally I never saw a promise of 16 different ending, but thats just me. As for choices, I've only got a couple paragon runs done so far but what I can tell some choices will make a difference. My housemate who played though got some very different moments in the game to me.
If people view is that BioWare set out to lie to them fair enough. I don't see it that way but thats my opinion.
I just think it's been blown out of all proportion and some of the criticism and abuse that BioWare have been receiving is unnecessary.

[Montcristo]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Montcristo wrote...
Please I ask all people here to not say things like the ones above. I undestard you all and Iam sad as well regarding the end of ME3. But Bioware already said they are trying to solve this. And for now we have to wait for their news. They will fix this people but we cannot keep attacking them, this is not a solution. Let´s let them work and see what will come out of this. We have to believe that they will make a good job on this DLC.

Here's the problems with your reasoning:

1. It assumes that Bioware has credit/trust in the bank remaining with their customer base. After fiasco after fiasco ranging from the entirety of Dragon Age 2 and Mike Laidlaw's awful spin interview, mediocre to awful DLC like Witch Hunt and The Arrival, and good but ultimately buggy and beta state releases like Awakenings, then finally this interview...trust in Bioware is in incredibly short supply.

2. They're "fixing" a problem that ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT REQUIRE FIXING and doing so without any apology in the first place.

This is really key. Anyone who has ever worked with customers know that THE VERY FIRST thing you do when you mess up is acknowledge and apologize. Bioware isn't doing this. They're basically saying, "Look at how awesome our critic reviews are. We're sorry you're too dumb to appreciate our genius. We're not going to redo the endings, we'll explain them more slowly to you so they don't go over your heads."

It's like that episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where Q puts mankind on trial and says, "Hoping your ape-like race would demonstrate some growth, give some indication that your minds have room for expansion."

We were promised multiple distinct endings where our choices would actually matter. We have not gotten that. We were promised clarity and explanations of everything. Instead we have plot holes and retconns of Reaper sized proportions.

And it all ends with the words "Downloadable Content" as you get dumped back onto the bridge of your ship. Literally, those are the last words you hear from Bioware after a truly awful ending that is 180 degrees the opposite of what we promised.

At this point we don't even know whether the DLC will actually be free or not. All we know is that we were promised ME3 would wrap things up and our choices would matter. Neither is the case.

And that's not even getting into insults to our intelligence like hiring an IGN writer to be in the game (gee, wonder if that impacted their review and coverage of the game? Can you say conflict of ****ing interest?) and the absolutely abominable way they handled Tali's face reveal. (Only my favorite character of the entire series and things fans have been anticipating since the first game.)

Bioware is out of money in the bank here with the customers. They are deeply in debt right now.

Get it right the VERY FIRST TIME. Or, if you don't, then don't require the gaming industry equivalent of worldwide riots and hunger strikes before you acknowledge an issue and STILL DON'T APOLOGIZE!

I understand all of you and as I said fell the same way. But we have to understand as well that sometimes is not easy for them. Do you realize what means to have millions of fans telling you bad things about your work? We already made our position to them they already know what we want. Now we have to let them try to fix things. We cannot keep attacking them, if this cotinues we look like a group of kids who don´t like his toys. We have to be adults and yes try to claim what we think we deserve but like adults. There are dozens of post to Bioware explaining our ideas. We can keep giving more ideas to them but lets keep it civil. I already maked a few post explaining my ideas and I will keep helping you all in order for us to have what we deserve.  

[BeefoTheBold]

Montcristo wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Montcristo wrote...
Please I ask all people here to not say things like the ones above. I undestard you all and Iam sad as well regarding the end of ME3. But Bioware already said they are trying to solve this. And for now we have to wait for their news. They will fix this people but we cannot keep attacking them, this is not a solution. Let´s let them work and see what will come out of this. We have to believe that they will make a good job on this DLC.

Here's the problems with your reasoning:

1. It assumes that Bioware has credit/trust in the bank remaining with their customer base. After fiasco after fiasco ranging from the entirety of Dragon Age 2 and Mike Laidlaw's awful spin interview, mediocre to awful DLC like Witch Hunt and The Arrival, and good but ultimately buggy and beta state releases like Awakenings, then finally this interview...trust in Bioware is in incredibly short supply.

2. They're "fixing" a problem that ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT REQUIRE FIXING and doing so without any apology in the first place.

This is really key. Anyone who has ever worked with customers know that THE VERY FIRST thing you do when you mess up is acknowledge and apologize. Bioware isn't doing this. They're basically saying, "Look at how awesome our critic reviews are. We're sorry you're too dumb to appreciate our genius. We're not going to redo the endings, we'll explain them more slowly to you so they don't go over your heads."

It's like that episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where Q puts mankind on trial and says, "Hoping your ape-like race would demonstrate some growth, give some indication that your minds have room for expansion."

We were promised multiple distinct endings where our choices would actually matter. We have not gotten that. We were promised clarity and explanations of everything. Instead we have plot holes and retconns of Reaper sized proportions.

And it all ends with the words "Downloadable Content" as you get dumped back onto the bridge of your ship. Literally, those are the last words you hear from Bioware after a truly awful ending that is 180 degrees the opposite of what we promised.

At this point we don't even know whether the DLC will actually be free or not. All we know is that we were promised ME3 would wrap things up and our choices would matter. Neither is the case.

And that's not even getting into insults to our intelligence like hiring an IGN writer to be in the game (gee, wonder if that impacted their review and coverage of the game? Can you say conflict of ****ing interest?) and the absolutely abominable way they handled Tali's face reveal. (Only my favorite character of the entire series and things fans have been anticipating since the first game.)

Bioware is out of money in the bank here with the customers. They are deeply in debt right now.

Get it right the VERY FIRST TIME. Or, if you don't, then don't require the gaming industry equivalent of worldwide riots and hunger strikes before you acknowledge an issue and STILL DON'T APOLOGIZE!

I understand all of you and as I said fell the same way. But we have to understand as well that sometimes is not easy for them. Do you realize what means to have millions of fans telling you bad things about your work? We already made our position to them they already know what we want. Now we have to let them try to fix things. We cannot keep attacking them, if this cotinues we look like a group of kids who don´t like his toys. We have to be adults and yes try to claim what we think we deserve but like adults. There are dozens of post to Bioware explaining our ideas. We can keep giving more ideas to them but lets keep it civil. I already maked a few post explaining my ideas and I will keep helping you all in order for us to have what we deserve.  

I understand your viewpoint, but I'm also thinking that keeping the pressure on is necessary and even helpful to Bioware.

EA isn't going to want to invest the money to fix this unless the outcry and blowback is loud, sustained and maintained until it is fixed. By doing things like keeping the forums in a state where every other post is a complaint and a demand for a fix, it impacts the views of new posters who come.

It also hits EA in the only spot they actually give a damn...their pocketbooks. Dr. Ray's post more or less confirms this with his allusions to letting folks finish the game before making any decisions. Bioware doesn't want to admit wrongdoing and start working on a fix while there are still sales in other countries to be made.

By impacting those sales, by causing this uproar and continuing it, valuable incentive structures are created:

1. It incents EA to clearly prioritize fixing this and investing the resources necessary to do so.
2. It incents EA to make the fix free.
3. It incents them to NOT DO THIS **** again!

All of these are valuable.

This is not so much about piling onto a beleagered design and development team that I honestly do feel some sympathy for. It's about preventing a major Moral Hazard going forward.

Which is more likely to get EA off their butts a Bioware exec coming to them and saying, "A lot of people didn't like our ending. There was major unhappiness and people feel lied to and abused but it seems to have abated now."

or...

"A lot of people absolutely despise our ending, feel lied to and used and are pledging never to buy our products again going forward. We initially thought that the backlash would blow over and people would get over it, but it shows no signs of abating and it's the only thing anyone is talking about on our forums. We absolutely have to fix this, whatever the cost, or risk huge amounts of future business."

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 26 mars 2012 - 05:01 .

[Beta-Breech]

Aftershox wrote...

Personally I never saw a promise of 16 different ending, but thats just me. As for choices, I've only got a couple paragon runs done so far but what I can tell some choices will make a difference. My housemate who played though got some very different moments in the game to me.
If people view is that BioWare set out to lie to them fair enough. I don't see it that way but thats my opinion.
I just think it's been blown out of all proportion and some of the criticism and abuse that BioWare have been receiving is unnecessary.

Just to address a certain point in your post:

[Roland de Ronceveaux]

White Zombie wrote...

After having sat down and thought about what I've seen and read, this video here pretty much sums up how I feel.

Sadly, I agree.

[Raist819]

 I think it says a lot that he replied to the furor surrounding the ending.  I have been a vocal opponent of the ending in the past and I have even gone as far as to call it poorly written.  However, looking at it from Bioware's perspective I feel a certain amount of sympathy for them.

I believe that when the decision was made to have a metaphysical ending to the series that no one on the production side had any idea that it would be viewed the way it is.  From what I have read I think that they thought the meaning would be debated (like Lost) and that it would be viewed as a smart and clever way to end the series.

So I can not really comprehend the level of disappointment they felt when we received it the way we did.  Yes, they are part of a large company that is all about making money, but the Bioware team has proven (to me at least) time and again that they care about more than money and really want their fans to be happy.  So when a large percentage of their core (who they really make games for) hated the ending to the point that (for many of us at least) it tainted the rest of the story for them, I would imagine they would have felt heartsick.

I appreciate that they are making attempts to add content to the end to make fans happy.  Unfortunately I don't know if that will be enough.

I, for one, am a type of fan that looks at the names of the key figures responsible for making a product.  Until now, Bioware, Blizzard, or Valve was all I needed to hear to know I was going to purchase something.  Now I will look for the names of the writing staff as well.  In movies if I hear "James Cameron" they have already sold me a ticket.  In tv "Joss Whedon" means an automatic spot on my DVR.  

During the first two seasons of BSG "Ronald Moore" was on that list.  After how incredibly dissappointed I was in the way it ended his name actually makes me more likely to avoid something now.  I cannot prove it, but looking at some evidence makes me think this way of choosing what fiction you "buy into" is something fairly common.  BSG was the flagship program of SYFY for 4 years.  After the way it ended, the Caprica follow-up had such low viewership it didn't make it through season 1.  The upcoming prequel movie is likely to be direct-to-web.

I don't know and cannot fully predict what reprecussions will be felt from the fairly common opinion that the ending damaged the series.  The people on the forums usually care enough that a new ending may appease most of them.  I can't help but wonder if the fans who don't come to the forums and stay involved after playing a game will feel the same way.  If the ones that were mad, but silent will come back for the next one.  

I guess only time will tell, but a part of me does feel for the Bioware crew.

Modifié par Raist819, 26 mars 2012 - 06:16 .

[Stronglav]

This is much better.He took the words wright out of my moulgh

[dsl08002]

Cheburator987 wrote...



This is much better.He took the words wright out of my moulgh

He is right on ever single point.

Even someone who thought the ending was good must have second thoughts after this

[beryls]

i love how Dr. Ray pretends shock over the few fans who are angered by the ending when so many reviewers "gave" the game such high reviews.....So this is Dr. Ray Muzyka. When you/EA/Bioware buy a review, they're not going to give you an honest review. They're going to lie their butt off and give you what you pay for!

[stonbw1]

I understand the gripes, but I personally really enjoyed the ending, especially from a singular playthrough perspective. I thought the moments leading up to the RGB decision were as sentimental and heart wrenching as I experienced in the ME-series. That is what I really wanted from ME3. It's like the TV show 'LOST': if you realized the show was about relationships, not polar bears and weird islands, you cried and felt happy at the last scene; if not, you were pissed.