2054 réponses à ce sujet

[oniradix]

Yeah,



is well done . . . outlines a lot of what is wrong.

[CARL_DF90]

This article sums everything that's wrong with ME3 story wise quite nicely. Glad I found it and I hope someone at Bioware gives it a good read.


http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/

[double02]

Well said, glad to hear it.

[BeefoTheBold]

durasteel wrote...

 To Dr. Muzyka, Regarding Artistic Integrity

in•teg•ri•ty   [in-teg-ri-tee]  noun
1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
2. the state of being whole, entire, or undiminished: to preserve the integrity of the empire.
3. a sound, unimpaired, or perfect condition: the integrity of a ship's hull. 

Dear Dr. Muzyka,

I have spent some time thinking about your recent statement regarding the ending of Mass Effect 3, especially the following:“I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team.  The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.”

I share your beliefs, but I feel as if those convictions might be leading us to different conclusions.

We know you. Some of us know your personal story, and have drawn inspiration from the courage you and Dr. Zeschuk showed in leaving the security of the medical profession to follow your hearts and dreams in an entertainment and artistic field. Some of us have read about BioWare as a business and taken lessons from the way you empower and reward your teams. All of us here, however, know you and BioWare best for your work. We came here because of your games and stayed here for your games. Your games, including Mass Effect 3, are unlike anything else on the market in terms of the quality of the narrative experience and the attachment and participation they invite from the player.

That’s what I would like to talk about, in the context of integrity—artistic and otherwise. You and your company, and Casey Hudson’s Mass Effect team in particular, have proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that you’re capable of phenomenal work. The Mass Effect games aren’t just art, they are often what is held up to prove the point that video games are an artistic medium. They make the player feel and think; they draw us in on an emotional, visceral level so that our level of engagement and suspension of disbelief is without parallel. You guys know good storytelling, you know good game design, and you know good art in this medium.

You know that the end of Mass Effect 3 does not measure up to your standard.

The amount of analysis of the ending of your most recent game done by its fans is staggering, detailed, and often well researched, but it is nothing that you and your very talented professionals didn’t already know. Frankly, a panel of industry professionals discussing how to tell effective and immersive stories through an interactive game would seem strangely empty without someone from BioWare on it. You guys are as capable of evaluating the shortcomings of the Catalyst segment as anyone, so you know full well the ways in which it fails to do justice to your game, your series, your team, and your company.

This is where integrity comes into play.

First, be honest. We understand deadlines and pressure. We don’t need specifics, we don’t need blame to be placed, we do not need a “pound of flesh.” We do, I think, need a simple acknowledgement that the Catalyst ending does not reflect the standard of work from BioWare or Mr. Hudson’s exceptional team, does not meet the expectations of your consumers, and does not represent the artistic choices the development team would have made under normal circumstances. We already know it, but admitting it respects and re-establishes the artistic integrity to which you referred.

Second, finish the game. Your fans, who love BioWare and Mass Effect, have given you an opportunity where re-completion of this game is something that makes sound business sense. The Catalyst ending as it currently stands diminishes the entire game and the entire series, and the integrity of your art demands a conclusion that matches it in quality and character. The overwhelming dissatisfaction from consumers has brought sound business practice and the issue of integrity into alignment.

You didn’t get into making video games for the money. Your passion for this industry and pride in your work which has helped to shape it are what I hope to appeal to today. You know, as well as anyone, whether explanation and clarification will be enough to bring Mass Effect 3 and the Mass Effect trilogy into something like a sound, unimpaired condition. You and your team are best qualified to judge whether padding out the existing ending will best reflect the principles and character of BioWare and provide a whole and undiminished product for your fans.

Much has been said about your fans’ reaction to the Catalyst ending, both sympathetic and scornful. Some insist that your fans want a happy ending, others claim that your fans want closure. Your team has invited and received a torrent of feedback with general and specific suggestions for the ending, but I fear that it might be obscuring the truth which I hope you and the development team never lose sight of: We want a BioWare ending. We want a Mass Effect ending. We want an ending that reflects the ability and talent of Mr. Hudson’s team. We want an ending that embodies the principles and character of your company. We want an ending that that matches the game, so that, whole and undiminished, it preserves the integrity of the Mass Effect experience.

You made reference to “a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey.” I fear that this implies an unwillingness to admit, perhaps even to yourself or within BioWare, that the Catalyst ending might be fundamentally flawed. My hope is that I can appeal to your integrity to make an honest appraisal of the ending and these proposed initiatives, and to make decisions that stem from the same motivation that inspired the creation of BioWare. It might not be an easy decision to fundamentally change the ending and discard certain elements, but if that is what is needed to produce an ending you are proud of then I think you will agree it is the right choice to make. BioWare and Mr. Hudson’s team have produced amazing work that has earned an unparalleled reputation. They deserve the chance to preserve the integrity of their reputation, their art, and their principles by finishing this game with a true reflection of their artistic choices and ability.

Whatever those true artistic choices are, I have no doubt they will be greeted with respect and enthusiasm when we finally have the opportunity to experience the new ending content.

Sincerely,
Richard Smith,
BioWare Fan

EXTREMELY well said. Tactful, polite, but firm and drives the point home. I officially cosign my name onto this and promise to kiss Mr. Smith's feet if he in turn promises not to step all over my tongue.

Hell, I'll do it anyway.

[master_errant]

While I did find a lack of emotional closyre in the ending (I chose systhesis)  and real moral ambiguity in all three endings 

  I have to say well done.  A compelling and engrossing story.  I was brought to tears twice and nearly so a few more times.  My biggrdt complaint would be the DR Eva chase scene...

  One of the complaints I've seen repetedly is the fleets being stranded in earthspace...While the relays offer really-really fast and "Free" FTL the ships odviously haved FTL  else it would take years to travel between stars in the clusters.

I hope you'll give us another Sci fi game....maybe a gritty space western?  or since Mechwarrior has dribbled away into the pathetic morass of mmo-land, a mec h game

thanks

Tim Burnett
(20 years pen and paper gaming and CRPGs since the commodore64...lol.)

[Gnaeus.Silvanus]

Admitting would be a great step and most of us will probably keep silent until these shabby endings are sorted out.

[TheSeventhJedi]

durasteel wrote...

 To Dr. Muzyka, Regarding Artistic Integrity

in•teg•ri•ty   [in-teg-ri-tee]  noun
1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
2. the state of being whole, entire, or undiminished: to preserve the integrity of the empire.
3. a sound, unimpaired, or perfect condition: the integrity of a ship's hull. 

Dear Dr. Muzyka,

I have spent some time thinking about your recent statement regarding the ending of Mass Effect 3, especially the following:“I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team.  The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.”

I share your beliefs, but I feel as if those convictions might be leading us to different conclusions.

We know you. Some of us know your personal story, and have drawn inspiration from the courage you and Dr. Zeschuk showed in leaving the security of the medical profession to follow your hearts and dreams in an entertainment and artistic field. Some of us have read about BioWare as a business and taken lessons from the way you empower and reward your teams. All of us here, however, know you and BioWare best for your work. We came here because of your games and stayed here for your games. Your games, including Mass Effect 3, are unlike anything else on the market in terms of the quality of the narrative experience and the attachment and participation they invite from the player.

That’s what I would like to talk about, in the context of integrity—artistic and otherwise. You and your company, and Casey Hudson’s Mass Effect team in particular, have proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that you’re capable of phenomenal work. The Mass Effect games aren’t just art, they are often what is held up to prove the point that video games are an artistic medium. They make the player feel and think; they draw us in on an emotional, visceral level so that our level of engagement and suspension of disbelief is without parallel. You guys know good storytelling, you know good game design, and you know good art in this medium.

You know that the end of Mass Effect 3 does not measure up to your standard.

The amount of analysis of the ending of your most recent game done by its fans is staggering, detailed, and often well researched, but it is nothing that you and your very talented professionals didn’t already know. Frankly, a panel of industry professionals discussing how to tell effective and immersive stories through an interactive game would seem strangely empty without someone from BioWare on it. You guys are as capable of evaluating the shortcomings of the Catalyst segment as anyone, so you know full well the ways in which it fails to do justice to your game, your series, your team, and your company.

This is where integrity comes into play.

First, be honest. We understand deadlines and pressure. We don’t need specifics, we don’t need blame to be placed, we do not need a “pound of flesh.” We do, I think, need a simple acknowledgement that the Catalyst ending does not reflect the standard of work from BioWare or Mr. Hudson’s exceptional team, does not meet the expectations of your consumers, and does not represent the artistic choices the development team would have made under normal circumstances. We already know it, but admitting it respects and re-establishes the artistic integrity to which you referred.

Second, finish the game. Your fans, who love BioWare and Mass Effect, have given you an opportunity where re-completion of this game is something that makes sound business sense. The Catalyst ending as it currently stands diminishes the entire game and the entire series, and the integrity of your art demands a conclusion that matches it in quality and character. The overwhelming dissatisfaction from consumers has brought sound business practice and the issue of integrity into alignment.

You didn’t get into making video games for the money. Your passion for this industry and pride in your work which has helped to shape it are what I hope to appeal to today. You know, as well as anyone, whether explanation and clarification will be enough to bring Mass Effect 3 and the Mass Effect trilogy into something like a sound, unimpaired condition. You and your team are best qualified to judge whether padding out the existing ending will best reflect the principles and character of BioWare and provide a whole and undiminished product for your fans.

Much has been said about your fans’ reaction to the Catalyst ending, both sympathetic and scornful. Some insist that your fans want a happy ending, others claim that your fans want closure. Your team has invited and received a torrent of feedback with general and specific suggestions for the ending, but I fear that it might be obscuring the truth which I hope you and the development team never lose sight of: We want a BioWare ending. We want a Mass Effect ending. We want an ending that reflects the ability and talent of Mr. Hudson’s team. We want an ending that embodies the principles and character of your company. We want an ending that that matches the game, so that, whole and undiminished, it preserves the integrity of the Mass Effect experience.

You made reference to “a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey.” I fear that this implies an unwillingness to admit, perhaps even to yourself or within BioWare, that the Catalyst ending might be fundamentally flawed. My hope is that I can appeal to your integrity to make an honest appraisal of the ending and these proposed initiatives, and to make decisions that stem from the same motivation that inspired the creation of BioWare. It might not be an easy decision to fundamentally change the ending and discard certain elements, but if that is what is needed to produce an ending you are proud of then I think you will agree it is the right choice to make. BioWare and Mr. Hudson’s team have produced amazing work that has earned an unparalleled reputation. They deserve the chance to preserve the integrity of their reputation, their art, and their principles by finishing this game with a true reflection of their artistic choices and ability.

Whatever those true artistic choices are, I have no doubt they will be greeted with respect and enthusiasm when we finally have the opportunity to experience the new ending content.

Sincerely,
Richard Smith,
BioWare Fan

PHENOMENALLY well said!  I'm not even snipping, even with it already quoted on the last page, because Dr. Ray MUST read this.  The fact of the matter is, they screwed up, and then gave us a condescending "apology."  If you have anything negative to say about your fans, you don't deserve to have fans anymore. 

[CARL_DF90]

Combined with the article link I posted this pretty much says it all. Thank you.

[Gnaeus.Silvanus]

No Bioware ending, no dolla!

[bpzrn]

vexus vi wrote...

i am such a fan of mass effect, i love all the games, including mass effect 3. but after all these years and sooooo many hours, the end of ME3 just was so underwhelming.

I feel the same, seemed like the end was rushed, lots of plot holes and jsut a flat dissapointment. I playe dME2 6 times, ME3 once and have not looke dat it in over 2 weeks and have no intention to do so.
be nice to EA

Game overall is good, sad part is BW had a chance to make it GREAT and missed that oppertunity.

[bpzrn]

 ME1 ME2 and 95% of ME3 were the best game I had played.

You closed out ME3 with a brand new charachter that changed every asspect of the previous games including ME3

Who is this glowing child and what the heck was everything leading up to this, seems like a big fat waste of time.

Also, we all grew attached to charachters, this is a credit to BW and ME, then you dissengagde them completly in the last 5 min. we have no clue of what the final action did to any of them?

The last 5 minutes my charachter had ZERO control over the ending other than color,  no matter what decisions I made, we all got this ending that comse in out of noware,

Why this new glowy kid thing? And so many questions unresolved, letting the Reapers farm the Galexy and ending that way would have been prefered than this brand new twist out of the blue. 

the ending stunk, BW screwd up its sad to see and you lost a loyal paying customer 

Should have stuck to what made this succesful.not try and spin some outlandish crazy nonsense at teh last 5 minutes of this series.

[BronD69]

[quote]BeefoTheBold wrote...

[quote]durasteel wrote...

 To Dr. Muzyka, Regarding Artistic Integrity
[quote]in•teg•ri•ty   [in-teg-ri-tee]  noun
1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
2. the state of being whole, entire, or undiminished: to preserve the integrity of the empire.
3. a sound, unimpaired, or perfect condition: the integrity of a ship's hull. [/quote]

Dear Dr. Muzyka,

I have spent some time thinking about your recent statement regarding the ending of Mass Effect 3, especially the following:“I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team.  The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.”

I share your beliefs, but I feel as if those convictions might be leading us to different conclusions.

We know you. Some of us know your personal story, and have drawn inspiration from the courage you and Dr. Zeschuk showed in leaving the security of the medical profession to follow your hearts and dreams in an entertainment and artistic field. Some of us have read about BioWare as a business and taken lessons from the way you empower and reward your teams. All of us here, however, know you and BioWare best for your work. We came here because of your games and stayed here for your games. Your games, including Mass Effect 3, are unlike anything else on the market in terms of the quality of the narrative experience and the attachment and participation they invite from the player.

That’s what I would like to talk about, in the context of integrity—artistic and otherwise. You and your company, and Casey Hudson’s Mass Effect team in particular, have proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that you’re capable of phenomenal work. The Mass Effect games aren’t just art, they are often what is held up to prove the point that video games are an artistic medium. They make the player feel and think; they draw us in on an emotional, visceral level so that our level of engagement and suspension of disbelief is without parallel. You guys know good storytelling, you know good game design, and you know good art in this medium.

You know that the end of Mass Effect 3 does not measure up to your standard.

The amount of analysis of the ending of your most recent game done by its fans is staggering, detailed, and often well researched, but it is nothing that you and your very talented professionals didn’t already know. Frankly, a panel of industry professionals discussing how to tell effective and immersive stories through an interactive game would seem strangely empty without someone from BioWare on it. You guys are as capable of evaluating the shortcomings of the Catalyst segment as anyone, so you know full well the ways in which it fails to do justice to your game, your series, your team, and your company.

This is where integrity comes into play.

First, be honest. We understand deadlines and pressure. We don’t need specifics, we don’t need blame to be placed, we do not need a “pound of flesh.” We do, I think, need a simple acknowledgement that the Catalyst ending does not reflect the standard of work from BioWare or Mr. Hudson’s exceptional team, does not meet the expectations of your consumers, and does not represent the artistic choices the development team would have made under normal circumstances. We already know it, but admitting it respects and re-establishes the artistic integrity to which you referred.

Second, finish the game. Your fans, who love BioWare and Mass Effect, have given you an opportunity where re-completion of this game is something that makes sound business sense. The Catalyst ending as it currently stands diminishes the entire game and the entire series, and the integrity of your art demands a conclusion that matches it in quality and character. The overwhelming dissatisfaction from consumers has brought sound business practice and the issue of integrity into alignment.

You didn’t get into making video games for the money. Your passion for this industry and pride in your work which has helped to shape it are what I hope to appeal to today. You know, as well as anyone, whether explanation and clarification will be enough to bring Mass Effect 3 and the Mass Effect trilogy into something like a sound, unimpaired condition. You and your team are best qualified to judge whether padding out the existing ending will best reflect the principles and character of BioWare and provide a whole and undiminished product for your fans.

Much has been said about your fans’ reaction to the Catalyst ending, both sympathetic and scornful. Some insist that your fans want a happy ending, others claim that your fans want closure. Your team has invited and received a torrent of feedback with general and specific suggestions for the ending, but I fear that it might be obscuring the truth which I hope you and the development team never lose sight of: We want a BioWare ending. We want a Mass Effect ending. We want an ending that reflects the ability and talent of Mr. Hudson’s team. We want an ending that embodies the principles and character of your company. We want an ending that that matches the game, so that, whole and undiminished, it preserves the integrity of the Mass Effect experience.

You made reference to “a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey.” I fear that this implies an unwillingness to admit, perhaps even to yourself or within BioWare, that the Catalyst ending might be fundamentally flawed. My hope is that I can appeal to your integrity to make an honest appraisal of the ending and these proposed initiatives, and to make decisions that stem from the same motivation that inspired the creation of BioWare. It might not be an easy decision to fundamentally change the ending and discard certain elements, but if that is what is needed to produce an ending you are proud of then I think you will agree it is the right choice to make. BioWare and Mr. Hudson’s team have produced amazing work that has earned an unparalleled reputation. They deserve the chance to preserve the integrity of their reputation, their art, and their principles by finishing this game with a true reflection of their artistic choices and ability.

Whatever those true artistic choices are, I have no doubt they will be greeted with respect and enthusiasm when we finally have the opportunity to experience the new ending content.

Sincerely,
Richard Smith,
BioWare Fan
[/quote]

EXTREMELY well said. Tactful, polite, but firm and drives the point home. I officially cosign my name onto this and promise to kiss Mr. Smith's feet if he in turn promises not to step all over my tongue.

Hell, I'll do it anyway.

Indeed tactful, polite, but firm and drives the point home and i do hope BioWare reads this.
No other words need to be posted!!

[ile_1979]

master_errant wrote...

........
  One of the complaints I've seen repetedly is the fleets being stranded in earthspace...While the relays offer really-really fast and "Free" FTL the ships odviously haved FTL  else it would take years to travel between stars in the clusters.

....

Dude, conventional FTL is possible to the nearby systems of the cluster, that being from several 10s to few 100s light years. Even then you run out of fuel pretty fast. Do note that most of the aliens stuck in Sol, live at least few 1000s light years away and some of them are on the other side of the galaxy, like talking 10 000s of light years away. Even the codex in ME1 states traveling beyond the clusters would take years and decades without the MRs. 

[BronD69]

Aye, fight and you may die. Run, and you'll live... at least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell THE REAPERS that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR SHEPARD!....MASS EFFECT THE GREAT..

Come on guys, give we the army of loyal fans the ending we deserve!!

Modifié par BronD69, 29 mars 2012 - 06:14 .

[PaxtonFetel]

This finale is killing the universe.
Why make love and hate, then to cut off all?
Who cares about dlc, if we know how to end.

[Gnaeus.Silvanus]

ile_1979 wrote...

master_errant wrote...

........
  One of the complaints I've seen repetedly is the fleets being stranded in earthspace...While the relays offer really-really fast and "Free" FTL the ships odviously haved FTL  else it would take years to travel between stars in the clusters.

....

Dude, conventional FTL is possible to the nearby systems of the cluster, that being from several 10s to few 100s light years. Even then you run out of fuel pretty fast. Do note that most of the aliens stuck in Sol, live at least few 1000s light years away and some of them are on the other side of the galaxy, like talking 10 000s of light years away. Even the codex in ME1 states traveling beyond the clusters would take years and decades without the MRs. 

Bioware hates us because we know how to think. Well, they better be good in their next move because they still have a lot of explaining to do.

[EmEr77]

A warning with regards to the language of the PR post:

Be wary of the term "artistic integrity."

What I have witnessed happen since the press release, is an extreme divide in the community base--something that may or may not have been intended by the BioWare team. I'm leaning towards the previous, that it was intended. The issue that has now arisen due to the very release of this article, that didn't seem in such hot debate before, is whether or not this game is an art form, and whether or not laying claim to their mistakes is breaking artistic integrity.

I'm alright with referring to this as an art form--however--that does not make it above constructive critique. Even art can be bad, and when it is bad, it should be called out for it. There is a defined structure, even to art, that when tampered with, or deviated from, the true intent falls apart. So art, can be looked at objectively. Remember that. Why am I asking you to remember this? Because now that the game is deemed as "art," one of three main reactions (oh look, mirroring how many choices we received in the ending...) can occur:

The first, is that some people will not be swayed by it. They will see through the PR smokescreen, and steadfastly hold true to the fact that the ending, needs to be dealt with (like myself). They are not intimidated by the use of the word "art" and understand that there are still objective ways to look at it. Especially with such a conventional story-telling style as Mass Effect.

The second is that people will sit back and think "maybe I'm wrong for judging it. Art is supposed to be highly interpretive, so maybe I'm just not getting it. I take back what I said." Which, in my opinion, is not the right thing to do. Often your first instinct, is the correct one. Kind of like test-taking.

The third reaction is an all-out side switch, where the people who did not appreciate the endings, now suddenly "see the error of their ways because it's art" and start to defend the endings, regardless of factual evidence produced because, art, apparently, does not rely on factual proof but feeling, and again, is highly interpretive. This, in my opinion, is also another bad way to approach things.


I've already seen a complete flaring of these divided opinions all over the forums--just remember to hold strong, do not be intimidated by the language, and your first instinct is typically your correct one. Listen to the factual evidence being presented to you about how and why the ending is poorly executed, and don't just chalk it up to "art." Because if that's supposed to be what "good art" is, I hate to see what their interpretation of "bad art" is.

Also remember that the true definition of "artistic integrity" is not only standing up for your own work, but having the grace to accept criticism, and recognize your mistakes as a part of a growing, progressing artist. It is not merely making a mistake, getting caught on it, but defending your work to the bitter end anyway, because it's your work, and that's what you should do. No, rather, the issue here to remember is not a matter of artistic integrity, but moral integrity.

Modifié par EmEr77, 29 mars 2012 - 06:54 .

[RenascentAnt1]

EmEr77 wrote...

A warning with regards to the language of the PR post:

Be wary of the term "artistic integrity."

What I have witnessed happen since the press release, is an extreme divide in the community base--something that may or may not have been intended by the BioWare team. I'm leaning towards the previous, that it was intended. The issue that has now arisen due to the very release of this article, that didn't seem in such hot debate before, is whether or not this game is an art form, and whether or not laying claim to their mistakes is breaking artistic integrity.

I'm alright with referring to this as an art form--however--that does not make it above constructive critique. Even art can be bad, and when it is bad, it should be called out for it. There is a defined structure, even to art, that when tampered with, or deviated from, the true intent falls apart. So art, can be looked at objectively. Remember that. Why am I asking you to remember this? Because now that the game is deemed as "art," one of three main reactions (oh look, mirroring how many choices we received in the ending...) can occur:

The first, is that some people will not be swayed by it. They will see through the PR smokescreen, and steadfastly hold true to the fact that the ending, needs to be dealt with (like myself). They are not intimidated by the use of the word "art" and understand that there are still objective ways to look at it. Especially with such a conventional story-telling style as Mass Effect.

The second is that people will sit back and think "maybe I'm wrong for judging it. Art is supposed to be highly interpretive, so maybe I'm just not getting it. I take back what I said." Which, in my opinion, is not the right thing to do. Often your first instinct, is the correct one. Kind of like test-taking.

The third reaction is an all-out side switch, where the people who did not appreciate the endings, now suddenly "see the error of their ways because it's art" and start to defend the endings, regardless of factual evidence produced because, art, apparently, does not rely on factual proof but feeling, and again, is highly interpretive. This, in my opinion, is also another bad way to approach things.


I've already seen a complete flaring of these divided opinions all over the forums--just remember to hold strong, do not be intimidated by the language, and your first instinct is typically your correct one. Listen to the factual evidence being presented to you about how and why the ending is poorly executed, and don't just chalk it up to "art." Because if that's supposed to be what "good art" is, I hate to see what their interpretation of "bad art" is.

Also remember that the true definition of "artistic integrity" is not only standing up for your own work, but having the grace to accept criticism, and recognize your mistakes as a part of a growing, progressing artist. It is not merely making a mistake, getting caught on it, but defending your work to the bitter end anyway, because it's your work, and that's what you should do. No, rather, the issue here to remember is not a matter of artistic integrity, but moral integrity.

Well said. Art is subjective but a good art work should provoke debate because of its content and not its quality. ME3 has been controversial because people are questioning about the quality of the game's ending (rushed, simplified, confusing).

At the end of the day, Bioware and EA are business companies with a bottom line for profit, and the bottom line is dependent on customers' satisfaction.

[Ibn_Shisha]

My response to the "art" line from another thread:

Ibn_Shisha wrote...

There is a big difference between art
created solely for self-expression and commercial art.  Commercial art
has to find a balance between artistic expression and consumer demand. 
This is especially true when the commercial artist makes a series of
statements regarding a critical aspect of the piece before its debut,
and follows up on none of them.  False advertising is not included in
artistic license or integrity.

An analogy.  Let's imagine Bioware
is getting a new office building.  They commission an artist to paint a
lobby mural of the Edmonton cityscape.  After meeting with the artist,
telling him their ideas, listening to ideas he has to make it his own
while still keeping it within the parameters they want, and finally
agreeing on price, they let him get to work.  Finally, the big day
comes.  The Bioware staff enters their new building, and what sight
greets them?  Not the cityscape mural they agreed upon and
WERE PROMISED.  Instead, they see various religious figures smeared
across the walls in what appears to be human excrement.  I seriously
doubt Dr. Muzyka, Casey, or anyone in Bioware would say, "Hey, this
isn't what we wanted, or what you told us we were getting, and we really
don't like it, but you're an artist, so even though we paid for
something else and got this instead, we have no right to complain, ask
you to fix it, or ask for our money back.  You may have lied to us about your
intentions for the piece, but you're an artist and we respect your
artistic expression and integrity."

[Getorex]

I WAS enthusiastic about the idea of a series of Mass Effect movies. I thought that, if done right, they could be this generation's Big Deal like Star Wars of old (the original, not the crap that followed after the first 3). I was thinking someone like Timothy Olyphant as Shepard (GREAT in "Justified" and everything else he's in. Has the look, can act like crazy...). Now, with the sub-B-movie ending to ME3 I no longer have any enthusiasm for the movie OR the franchise (other games and the books, etc). Now I think the movie, IF it is made, deserves no more than the Ewe Bolls treatment. He would give to Mass Effect movies the same attention and treatment as the creators/writers gave to the ending of ME3...barely any at all, would just push it out the door and straight to DVD where about 10 people will actually see it.

Nice job Bioware. Nice job indeed.

[voteDC]

I have to add my agreement to this post as well. perfectly said.

durasteel wrote...

 To Dr. Muzyka, Regarding Artistic Integrity

in•teg•ri•ty   [in-teg-ri-tee]  noun
1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
2. the state of being whole, entire, or undiminished: to preserve the integrity of the empire.
3. a sound, unimpaired, or perfect condition: the integrity of a ship's hull. 

Dear Dr. Muzyka,

I have spent some time thinking about your recent statement regarding the ending of Mass Effect 3, especially the following:“I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team.  The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.”

I share your beliefs, but I feel as if those convictions might be leading us to different conclusions.

We know you. Some of us know your personal story, and have drawn inspiration from the courage you and Dr. Zeschuk showed in leaving the security of the medical profession to follow your hearts and dreams in an entertainment and artistic field. Some of us have read about BioWare as a business and taken lessons from the way you empower and reward your teams. All of us here, however, know you and BioWare best for your work. We came here because of your games and stayed here for your games. Your games, including Mass Effect 3, are unlike anything else on the market in terms of the quality of the narrative experience and the attachment and participation they invite from the player.

That’s what I would like to talk about, in the context of integrity—artistic and otherwise. You and your company, and Casey Hudson’s Mass Effect team in particular, have proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that you’re capable of phenomenal work. The Mass Effect games aren’t just art, they are often what is held up to prove the point that video games are an artistic medium. They make the player feel and think; they draw us in on an emotional, visceral level so that our level of engagement and suspension of disbelief is without parallel. You guys know good storytelling, you know good game design, and you know good art in this medium.

You know that the end of Mass Effect 3 does not measure up to your standard.

The amount of analysis of the ending of your most recent game done by its fans is staggering, detailed, and often well researched, but it is nothing that you and your very talented professionals didn’t already know. Frankly, a panel of industry professionals discussing how to tell effective and immersive stories through an interactive game would seem strangely empty without someone from BioWare on it. You guys are as capable of evaluating the shortcomings of the Catalyst segment as anyone, so you know full well the ways in which it fails to do justice to your game, your series, your team, and your company.

This is where integrity comes into play.

First, be honest. We understand deadlines and pressure. We don’t need specifics, we don’t need blame to be placed, we do not need a “pound of flesh.” We do, I think, need a simple acknowledgement that the Catalyst ending does not reflect the standard of work from BioWare or Mr. Hudson’s exceptional team, does not meet the expectations of your consumers, and does not represent the artistic choices the development team would have made under normal circumstances. We already know it, but admitting it respects and re-establishes the artistic integrity to which you referred.

Second, finish the game. Your fans, who love BioWare and Mass Effect, have given you an opportunity where re-completion of this game is something that makes sound business sense. The Catalyst ending as it currently stands diminishes the entire game and the entire series, and the integrity of your art demands a conclusion that matches it in quality and character. The overwhelming dissatisfaction from consumers has brought sound business practice and the issue of integrity into alignment.

You didn’t get into making video games for the money. Your passion for this industry and pride in your work which has helped to shape it are what I hope to appeal to today. You know, as well as anyone, whether explanation and clarification will be enough to bring Mass Effect 3 and the Mass Effect trilogy into something like a sound, unimpaired condition. You and your team are best qualified to judge whether padding out the existing ending will best reflect the principles and character of BioWare and provide a whole and undiminished product for your fans.

Much has been said about your fans’ reaction to the Catalyst ending, both sympathetic and scornful. Some insist that your fans want a happy ending, others claim that your fans want closure. Your team has invited and received a torrent of feedback with general and specific suggestions for the ending, but I fear that it might be obscuring the truth which I hope you and the development team never lose sight of: We want a BioWare ending. We want a Mass Effect ending. We want an ending that reflects the ability and talent of Mr. Hudson’s team. We want an ending that embodies the principles and character of your company. We want an ending that that matches the game, so that, whole and undiminished, it preserves the integrity of the Mass Effect experience.

You made reference to “a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey.” I fear that this implies an unwillingness to admit, perhaps even to yourself or within BioWare, that the Catalyst ending might be fundamentally flawed. My hope is that I can appeal to your integrity to make an honest appraisal of the ending and these proposed initiatives, and to make decisions that stem from the same motivation that inspired the creation of BioWare. It might not be an easy decision to fundamentally change the ending and discard certain elements, but if that is what is needed to produce an ending you are proud of then I think you will agree it is the right choice to make. BioWare and Mr. Hudson’s team have produced amazing work that has earned an unparalleled reputation. They deserve the chance to preserve the integrity of their reputation, their art, and their principles by finishing this game with a true reflection of their artistic choices and ability.

Whatever those true artistic choices are, I have no doubt they will be greeted with respect and enthusiasm when we finally have the opportunity to experience the new ending content.

Sincerely,
Richard Smith,
BioWare Fan

[RenascentAnt1]

Ibn_Shisha wrote...

My response to the "art" line from another thread:

Ibn_Shisha wrote...

There is a big difference between art
created solely for self-expression and commercial art.  Commercial art
has to find a balance between artistic expression and consumer demand. 
This is especially true when the commercial artist makes a series of
statements regarding a critical aspect of the piece before its debut,
and follows up on none of them.  False advertising is not included in
artistic license or integrity.

An analogy.  Let's imagine Bioware
is getting a new office building.  They commission an artist to paint a
lobby mural of the Edmonton cityscape.  After meeting with the artist,
telling him their ideas, listening to ideas he has to make it his own
while still keeping it within the parameters they want, and finally
agreeing on price, they let him get to work.  Finally, the big day
comes.  The Bioware staff enters their new building, and what sight
greets them?  Not the cityscape mural they agreed upon and
WERE PROMISED.  Instead, they see various religious figures smeared
across the walls in what appears to be human excrement.  I seriously
doubt Dr. Muzyka, Casey, or anyone in Bioware would say, "Hey, this
isn't what we wanted, or what you told us we were getting, and we really
don't like it, but you're an artist, so even though we paid for
something else and got this instead, we have no right to complain, ask
you to fix it, or ask for our money back.  You may have lied to us about your
intentions for the piece, but you're an artist and we respect your
artistic expression and integrity."

"Commercial art has to find a balance between artistic expression and consumer demand."

I fully agree. And what I find hypocritical of Bioware is that the whole ME series have been about players individualising who Shepard is, the relationship he/she has, and editing the various choices and consequences to tailor to the player's taste and preference. Then to have the final conclusion snatching away the player's agency and ownership is just ludicrious, and makes me wonder why I even bothered to do all those silly side quests of fetch and fedex to gain the highest EMS possible, yet none of them seem to have made a difference to the final ending apart from some entry in the codex.

What I had enjoyed so much about Mass Effect series has been about the degree of ownership and involvement I get as a player in editing who Shepard is. I suspect this is one of the key reaons why people enjoy ME so much. And then Bioware do this whole "hey we are artists so all your choices can go to hell".

I don't buy it.

[venom56321489]

http://www.tampabay....o-games/1222399
Mass Effect 3's ho-hum finale is now a low point in video games

[BeefoTheBold]

venom56321489 wrote...

http://www.tampabay....o-games/1222399
Mass Effect 3's ho-hum finale is now a low point in video games

Yes. That article just about covers all the bases.

Even if the Indoctrination Theory out is taken, it means either that Bioware really did hold out the actual endings with the intent of charging for them...which is a sociopathic level of greed and abuse of fan trust...or they honestly and truly thought the endings were objectively good, complete and met their public promises about player choice having an impact, which borders on Forrest Gump levels of stupid.

When you're forcing your customers to try and decide whether you're intentionally ripping them off or are just plan dumb it isn't a good position to be in as a company.

I'll give Bioware the Indoctrination Theory out IF AND ONLY IF the content that allows us to get to the REAL endings where our choices actually matter is FREE.

It would be a moral hazard problem of epic proportions if Bioware's customers paid extra to be given the "real" endings.

[Artemis_Entrari]

durasteel wrote...

 To Dr. Muzyka, Regarding Artistic Integrity

in•teg•ri•ty   [in-teg-ri-tee]  noun
1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.
2. the state of being whole, entire, or undiminished: to preserve the integrity of the empire.
3. a sound, unimpaired, or perfect condition: the integrity of a ship's hull. 

Dear Dr. Muzyka,

I have spent some time thinking about your recent statement regarding the ending of Mass Effect 3, especially the following:“I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team.  The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.”

I share your beliefs, but I feel as if those convictions might be leading us to different conclusions.

We know you. Some of us know your personal story, and have drawn inspiration from the courage you and Dr. Zeschuk showed in leaving the security of the medical profession to follow your hearts and dreams in an entertainment and artistic field. Some of us have read about BioWare as a business and taken lessons from the way you empower and reward your teams. All of us here, however, know you and BioWare best for your work. We came here because of your games and stayed here for your games. Your games, including Mass Effect 3, are unlike anything else on the market in terms of the quality of the narrative experience and the attachment and participation they invite from the player.

That’s what I would like to talk about, in the context of integrity—artistic and otherwise. You and your company, and Casey Hudson’s Mass Effect team in particular, have proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that you’re capable of phenomenal work. The Mass Effect games aren’t just art, they are often what is held up to prove the point that video games are an artistic medium. They make the player feel and think; they draw us in on an emotional, visceral level so that our level of engagement and suspension of disbelief is without parallel. You guys know good storytelling, you know good game design, and you know good art in this medium.

You know that the end of Mass Effect 3 does not measure up to your standard.

The amount of analysis of the ending of your most recent game done by its fans is staggering, detailed, and often well researched, but it is nothing that you and your very talented professionals didn’t already know. Frankly, a panel of industry professionals discussing how to tell effective and immersive stories through an interactive game would seem strangely empty without someone from BioWare on it. You guys are as capable of evaluating the shortcomings of the Catalyst segment as anyone, so you know full well the ways in which it fails to do justice to your game, your series, your team, and your company.

This is where integrity comes into play.

First, be honest. We understand deadlines and pressure. We don’t need specifics, we don’t need blame to be placed, we do not need a “pound of flesh.” We do, I think, need a simple acknowledgement that the Catalyst ending does not reflect the standard of work from BioWare or Mr. Hudson’s exceptional team, does not meet the expectations of your consumers, and does not represent the artistic choices the development team would have made under normal circumstances. We already know it, but admitting it respects and re-establishes the artistic integrity to which you referred.

Second, finish the game. Your fans, who love BioWare and Mass Effect, have given you an opportunity where re-completion of this game is something that makes sound business sense. The Catalyst ending as it currently stands diminishes the entire game and the entire series, and the integrity of your art demands a conclusion that matches it in quality and character. The overwhelming dissatisfaction from consumers has brought sound business practice and the issue of integrity into alignment.

You didn’t get into making video games for the money. Your passion for this industry and pride in your work which has helped to shape it are what I hope to appeal to today. You know, as well as anyone, whether explanation and clarification will be enough to bring Mass Effect 3 and the Mass Effect trilogy into something like a sound, unimpaired condition. You and your team are best qualified to judge whether padding out the existing ending will best reflect the principles and character of BioWare and provide a whole and undiminished product for your fans.

Much has been said about your fans’ reaction to the Catalyst ending, both sympathetic and scornful. Some insist that your fans want a happy ending, others claim that your fans want closure. Your team has invited and received a torrent of feedback with general and specific suggestions for the ending, but I fear that it might be obscuring the truth which I hope you and the development team never lose sight of: We want a BioWare ending. We want a Mass Effect ending. We want an ending that reflects the ability and talent of Mr. Hudson’s team. We want an ending that embodies the principles and character of your company. We want an ending that that matches the game, so that, whole and undiminished, it preserves the integrity of the Mass Effect experience.

You made reference to “a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey.” I fear that this implies an unwillingness to admit, perhaps even to yourself or within BioWare, that the Catalyst ending might be fundamentally flawed. My hope is that I can appeal to your integrity to make an honest appraisal of the ending and these proposed initiatives, and to make decisions that stem from the same motivation that inspired the creation of BioWare. It might not be an easy decision to fundamentally change the ending and discard certain elements, but if that is what is needed to produce an ending you are proud of then I think you will agree it is the right choice to make. BioWare and Mr. Hudson’s team have produced amazing work that has earned an unparalleled reputation. They deserve the chance to preserve the integrity of their reputation, their art, and their principles by finishing this game with a true reflection of their artistic choices and ability.

Whatever those true artistic choices are, I have no doubt they will be greeted with respect and enthusiasm when we finally have the opportunity to experience the new ending content.

Sincerely,
Richard Smith,
BioWare Fan

Arguably the best written post in this topic, and on the subject of the endings, on the forum.