564 réponses à ce sujet

[Baelyn]

MassEffected555 wrote...



[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">But as ] discovered during his research into indoctrination at the facility, there is a balance between control and usefulness. The more control Sovereign has over a person, the less capable they become. Saren realized that to keep his mind free of Sovereign's control, he had to make himself an invaluable resource. He believed that Sovereign would allow him a reprieve from indoctrination, because the Reaper needed Saren's mind intact to find the [/color]Conduit. 


DERPPPPPPPPPPPP Saren was still MOSTLY in control of himself and again, look at all the terrible things he did BEFORE VIRMIRE when Sovy implanted him after meeting Shep there.


YOU DO NOT KNOW THE LORE THAT IS CLEAR.

You may not know it, but you have just provided a very valid argument for why the ending was as it is. The reapers were interested in Shepard (how many times in ME2 did Harbinger tell you he was after your mind, and had bigger plans for you). They want Shepard. Just like Cerberus (hint hint) wanted no alterations to be made to him, because they wanted it to be completely him. They need to, as subtley as possible, make Shepard think he is doing everything out of his own will, because, the harder they press on him, the less "Shepard" he becomes. Just like Saren. They realized their flaw with Saren was that Saren was screwed up from the start and didn't have the respect of the people.

Remember the scene from the book when Grayson intentionally steers his shuttle away as a distraction later to find out that he actually steered it towards? The most deadly form of indoctrination is the type that is subtle enough to make you not even realize your actions are not your own, and are actually theirs.

[Jaze55]

darkiddd wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

The mental damage from indoctrination is severe and permanent. As Shepard saw, the captured salarians on Virmire had been turned into shambling husks, who either attacked on sight or just stood awaiting orders. Only people with immense mental strength are able to resist indoctrination, and even then, only for a short time. Matriarch Benezia used her abilities to keep a 'haven' in her mind free of indoctrination, hoping for a chance to use it, but this meant she was effectively trapped in her own mind, watching in horror as she committed atrocities on Saren's orders. When mortally injured on Noveria, a despairing Benezia refused Shepard's offer of help and chose to die, saying "I am not myself, I never will be again."

The only person who fully escaped indoctrination's grip was Shiala, but her case was unique; Sovereign's control was supplanted by the Thorian's when she was exchanged for the Cipher, which ended with the Thorian's demise—a scenario unlikely to be repeated.

But the indoctrination with the salarians was direct and brutal. They knew they were being indoctrinated and couldn't help to stop it. They ended up nuts and were almost useless. The indoctrination with Shepard has been slow and has found a way throught his guilt. This is the way indoctrination works the best because Shepard didn't fully notice he was being indoctrinated and neither did the players. That's why this theory is awesome. It tricks you, confuses you and your motivations to end up like Saren or the Illusive man without even noticing it. So in the end the three choices are not what they are said to do but what they represent. And destroy is the only one that saves you.

Ok and according to the theory the indoc on Shep was DIRECT AND BRUTAL. Getting blasted by a ****ing beam seems pretty ****ing direct and brutal to me.


Do you people even read what you write first? 

[Caedryn Stonelaw]

So one of my thoughts is this: BioWare had a major issue with the leak of their original ending, to the point of scrapping it from everything we can tell. What if this move to a post release ending continuation is as much about catching a mole and keeping spoilers away as it was about asking the players with no strategy guide for the perfect end (since the ending wasn't released) whether they themselves could actually resist indoctrination. The player would have to be fundamentally honest in their decision making as there is nothing to influence their decision but a d*mned starchild shoving options down our throat that only lead to despair. Just how the reapers like their final options.

I initially didn't believe the indoctrination theory, but after more time spent analyzing the ending than i did playing the game, it is the only one which creates internal consistency and keeps my faith in BioWare. Anything else for me is almost literally soul crushing.

The normandy scene i think is the only one which hampers the ending as its more of a confounding factor than a subtle hint. It really only adds confusion to any narrative they chose.

Modifié par Caedryn Stonelaw, 21 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[Vromrig]

ey Moron. I have to assume you are a moron because I said this already. I really don't have patience today to repeat myself so PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME.

There is NO fully or half or a quarter indoctrinated. You just ARE.

Saren at the start of ME1 was INDOCTRINATED but still had free will. It doesnt say he is only slightly a little teeny tiny iota of indoctrinated does it? INDOCTRINATED.


You people are idiots. Im tired of this. You do not know the lore. You are half ass fans. Go paly the games again. Go read the Wiki's again

EDUCATE YOURSELVES. I played the dam games OVER 40 time each. I think I played ME3 about 70 times. It is un healthy how many dam times I played the games.

YOU do NOT know the lore.

Cannot understand how so uncivil to others, but remain so civil to me.

Or why simple question ignored. Troubling.

Ok and according to the theory the indoc on Shep was DIRECT AND BRUTAL. Getting blasted by a ****ing beam seems pretty ****ing direct and brutal to me.

Believe I understand break down.  Argument not that beam Indoctrinated.  Clearly misunderstanding.

Modifié par Vromrig, 21 mars 2012 - 06:53 .

[Jaze55]

Baelyn wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...



[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">But as ] discovered during his research into indoctrination at the facility, there is a balance between control and usefulness. The more control Sovereign has over a person, the less capable they become. Saren realized that to keep his mind free of Sovereign's control, he had to make himself an invaluable resource. He believed that Sovereign would allow him a reprieve from indoctrination, because the Reaper needed Saren's mind intact to find the [/color]Conduit. 


DERPPPPPPPPPPPP Saren was still MOSTLY in control of himself and again, look at all the terrible things he did BEFORE VIRMIRE when Sovy implanted him after meeting Shep there.


YOU DO NOT KNOW THE LORE THAT IS CLEAR.

You may not know it, but you have just provided a very valid argument for why the ending was as it is. The reapers were interested in Shepard (how many times in ME2 did Harbinger tell you he was after your mind, and had bigger plans for you). They want Shepard. Just like Cerberus (hint hint) wanted no alterations to be made to him, because they wanted it to be completely him. They need to, as subtley as possible, make Shepard think he is doing everything out of his own will, because, the harder they press on him, the less "Shepard" he becomes. Just like Saren. They realized their flaw with Saren was that Saren was screwed up from the start and didn't have the respect of the people.

Remember the scene from the book when Grayson intentionally steers his shuttle away as a distraction later to find out that he actually steered it towards? The most deadly form of indoctrination is the type that is subtle enough to make you not even realize your actions are not your own, and are actually theirs.

Yeah like Saren? The same Saren that got the Geth, did all that terrible **** in ME1 who was SUBTLY INDOCTRINATED at that point?

When does Shepard EVER do ONE single thing to help reapers at ANY point in ANY game?

Tell me.

[Zing Freelancer]

Indoctrination theory is but a means of escaping current ending, means for Shepard to continue the fight. Even if it boils down to indoctrination, they still have the option to end the game the way they wish to.

[N7L4D]

MassEffected555 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

The mental damage from indoctrination is severe and permanent. As Shepard saw, the captured salarians on Virmire had been turned into shambling husks, who either attacked on sight or just stood awaiting orders. Only people with immense mental strength are able to resist indoctrination, and even then, only for a short time. Matriarch Benezia used her abilities to keep a 'haven' in her mind free of indoctrination, hoping for a chance to use it, but this meant she was effectively trapped in her own mind, watching in horror as she committed atrocities on Saren's orders. When mortally injured on Noveria, a despairing Benezia refused Shepard's offer of help and chose to die, saying "I am not myself, I never will be again."

The only person who fully escaped indoctrination's grip was Shiala, but her case was unique; Sovereign's control was supplanted by the Thorian's when she was exchanged for the Cipher, which ended with the Thorian's demise—a scenario unlikely to be repeated.

Your not understanding the theory. It's not that Shepis indoctriated...It's that he is in the process of indoctrination. What you posting is what happen once the person is full indoctrinated. Shepard is not, he's just in the early levels of it.

Hey Moron. I have to assume you are a moron because I said this already. I really don't have patience today to repeat myself so PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME.

There is NO fully or half or a quarter indoctrinated. You just ARE.

Saren at the start of ME1 was INDOCTRINATED but still had free will. It doesnt say he is only slightly a little teeny tiny iota of indoctrinated does it? INDOCTRINATED.


You people are idiots. Im tired of this. You do not know the lore. You are half ass fans. Go paly the games again. Go read the Wiki's again

EDUCATE YOURSELVES. I played the dam games OVER 40 time each. I think I played ME3 about 70 times. It is un healthy how many dam times I played the games.

YOU do NOT know the lore. 

actually dude, you dont know the lore, you even ammited earlier you never read, or cared to read the books, and i dont see being the loud rude guy as yourself, is productive at all

[dreman9999]

MassEffected555 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

The mental damage from indoctrination is severe and permanent. As Shepard saw, the captured salarians on Virmire had been turned into shambling husks, who either attacked on sight or just stood awaiting orders. Only people with immense mental strength are able to resist indoctrination, and even then, only for a short time. Matriarch Benezia used her abilities to keep a 'haven' in her mind free of indoctrination, hoping for a chance to use it, but this meant she was effectively trapped in her own mind, watching in horror as she committed atrocities on Saren's orders. When mortally injured on Noveria, a despairing Benezia refused Shepard's offer of help and chose to die, saying "I am not myself, I never will be again."

The only person who fully escaped indoctrination's grip was Shiala, but her case was unique; Sovereign's control was supplanted by the Thorian's when she was exchanged for the Cipher, which ended with the Thorian's demise—a scenario unlikely to be repeated.

Your not understanding the theory. It's not that Shepis indoctriated...It's that he is in the process of indoctrination. What you posting is what happen once the person is full indoctrinated. Shepard is not, he's just in the early levels of it.

Hey Moron. I have to assume you are a moron because I said this already. I really don't have patience today to repeat myself so PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME.

There is NO fully or half or a quarter indoctrinated. You just ARE.

Saren at the start of ME1 was INDOCTRINATED but still had free will. It doesnt say he is only slightly a little teeny tiny iota of indoctrinated does it? INDOCTRINATED.


You people are idiots. Im tired of this. You do not know the lore. You are half ass fans. Go paly the games again. Go read the Wiki's again

EDUCATE YOURSELVES. I played the dam games OVER 40 time each. I think I played ME3 about 70 times. It is un healthy how many dam times I played the games.

YOU do NOT know the lore. 

Paul grayson and everything you see in sanctuary and everything that happens in the arriaval says other wise.

Modifié par dreman9999, 21 mars 2012 - 06:59 .

[ijobes1]

The Mordin thing is kind of endearing but nothing you said your earlier posts is in any way compelling, Shep Indoctrinated means he's done for, Benezia, Saren and the Salarians on Virmire. Indoctrination is a death sentence, the choices, the conversation with Illusive or the AI mean nothing, if they have him under their spell they either turn him or kill him, there is no way forward. Mass Effect is a SciFi action game not a philosophy or metaphysics study.

[Vromrig]

actually dude, you dont know the lore, you even ammited earlier you never read, or cared to read the books, and i dont see being the loud rude guy as yourself, is productive at all

Was me who did not read or care for novels.

Keep civil, no need to be Krogan about this.

The Mordin thing is kind of endearing but nothing you said your earlier posts is in any way compelling, Shep Indoctrinated means he's done for, Benezia, Saren and the Salarians on Virmire. Indoctrination is a death sentence, the choices, the conversation with Illusive or the AI mean nothing, if they have him under their spell they either turn him or kill him, there is no way forward. Mass Effect is a SciFi action game not a philosophy or metaphysics study. 

Misrepresenting my argument.  Never stated Shepard Indoctrinated.

Further, incorrect.  Bioware trying desperately to make point of nihilism and philosophical metaphysics.

Part of complaint about ending.

Modifié par Vromrig, 21 mars 2012 - 06:56 .

[BadlyBrowned]

Honestly, Indoctrination seems like the best way to retcon the ending without actually retconning it....seems like a win-win for everyone.

[dreman9999]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...



[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">But as ] discovered during his research into indoctrination at the facility, there is a balance between control and usefulness. The more control Sovereign has over a person, the less capable they become. Saren realized that to keep his mind free of Sovereign's control, he had to make himself an invaluable resource. He believed that Sovereign would allow him a reprieve from indoctrination, because the Reaper needed Saren's mind intact to find the [/color]Conduit. 


DERPPPPPPPPPPPP Saren was still MOSTLY in control of himself and again, look at all the terrible things he did BEFORE VIRMIRE when Sovy implanted him after meeting Shep there.


YOU DO NOT KNOW THE LORE THAT IS CLEAR.

You may not know it, but you have just provided a very valid argument for why the ending was as it is. The reapers were interested in Shepard (how many times in ME2 did Harbinger tell you he was after your mind, and had bigger plans for you). They want Shepard. Just like Cerberus (hint hint) wanted no alterations to be made to him, because they wanted it to be completely him. They need to, as subtley as possible, make Shepard think he is doing everything out of his own will, because, the harder they press on him, the less "Shepard" he becomes. Just like Saren. They realized their flaw with Saren was that Saren was screwed up from the start and didn't have the respect of the people.

Remember the scene from the book when Grayson intentionally steers his shuttle away as a distraction later to find out that he actually steered it towards? The most deadly form of indoctrination is the type that is subtle enough to make you not even realize your actions are not your own, and are actually theirs.

Yeah like Saren? The same Saren that got the Geth, did all that terrible **** in ME1 who was SUBTLY INDOCTRINATED at that point?

When does Shepard EVER do ONE single thing to help reapers at ANY point in ANY game?

Tell me.

Your not understand the concept of being in the process of indoctrination and being fully indoctrinated.

[darkiddd]

MassEffected555 wrote...

darkiddd wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

The mental damage from indoctrination is severe and permanent. As Shepard saw, the captured salarians on Virmire had been turned into shambling husks, who either attacked on sight or just stood awaiting orders. Only people with immense mental strength are able to resist indoctrination, and even then, only for a short time. Matriarch Benezia used her abilities to keep a 'haven' in her mind free of indoctrination, hoping for a chance to use it, but this meant she was effectively trapped in her own mind, watching in horror as she committed atrocities on Saren's orders. When mortally injured on Noveria, a despairing Benezia refused Shepard's offer of help and chose to die, saying "I am not myself, I never will be again."

The only person who fully escaped indoctrination's grip was Shiala, but her case was unique; Sovereign's control was supplanted by the Thorian's when she was exchanged for the Cipher, which ended with the Thorian's demise—a scenario unlikely to be repeated.

But the indoctrination with the salarians was direct and brutal. They knew they were being indoctrinated and couldn't help to stop it. They ended up nuts and were almost useless. The indoctrination with Shepard has been slow and has found a way throught his guilt. This is the way indoctrination works the best because Shepard didn't fully notice he was being indoctrinated and neither did the players. That's why this theory is awesome. It tricks you, confuses you and your motivations to end up like Saren or the Illusive man without even noticing it. So in the end the three choices are not what they are said to do but what they represent. And destroy is the only one that saves you.

Ok and according to the theory the indoc on Shep was DIRECT AND BRUTAL. Getting blasted by a ****ing beam seems pretty ****ing direct and brutal to me.


Do you people even read what you write first? 

And how does the lazer have anything to do with what I said. The lazer was not indoctrinating you. It just made you lose conciusness because it didn't hit directly on you. I could be rude like you but frankly I'm a bit tired of being it.

[Caedryn Stonelaw]

ijobes1 wrote...

The Mordin thing is kind of endearing but nothing you said your earlier posts is in any way compelling, Shep Indoctrinated means he's done for, Benezia, Saren and the Salarians on Virmire. Indoctrination is a death sentence, the choices, the conversation with Illusive or the AI mean nothing, if they have him under their spell they either turn him or kill him, there is no way forward. Mass Effect is a SciFi action game not a philosophy or metaphysics study.

But what if their conclusion is entirely different: The reason Shepard has fought the reapers so well relative to every other cycle is the exact same reason he is the first person to ever free himself fully from the indoctrination?

[I Soya I]

MassEffected555 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

The mental damage from indoctrination is severe and permanent. As Shepard saw, the captured salarians on Virmire had been turned into shambling husks, who either attacked on sight or just stood awaiting orders. Only people with immense mental strength are able to resist indoctrination, and even then, only for a short time. Matriarch Benezia used her abilities to keep a 'haven' in her mind free of indoctrination, hoping for a chance to use it, but this meant she was effectively trapped in her own mind, watching in horror as she committed atrocities on Saren's orders. When mortally injured on Noveria, a despairing Benezia refused Shepard's offer of help and chose to die, saying "I am not myself, I never will be again."

The only person who fully escaped indoctrination's grip was Shiala, but her case was unique; Sovereign's control was supplanted by the Thorian's when she was exchanged for the Cipher, which ended with the Thorian's demise—a scenario unlikely to be repeated.

Your not understanding the theory. It's not that Shepis indoctriated...It's that he is in the process of indoctrination. What you posting is what happen once the person is full indoctrinated. Shepard is not, he's just in the early levels of it.

Hey Moron. I have to assume you are a moron because I said this already. I really don't have patience today to repeat myself so PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME.

There is NO fully or half or a quarter indoctrinated. You just ARE.

Saren at the start of ME1 was INDOCTRINATED but still had free will. It doesnt say he is only slightly a little teeny tiny iota of indoctrinated does it? INDOCTRINATED.


You people are idiots. Im tired of this. You do not know the lore. You are half ass fans. Go paly the games again. Go read the Wiki's again

EDUCATE YOURSELVES. I played the dam games OVER 40 time each. I think I played ME3 about 70 times. It is un healthy how many dam times I played the games.

YOU do NOT know the lore. 

Indoctrination is a slow process. I believe that is in the Codec, correct? So if the pocess of indoctrination has started but is not complete then the person is still indoctrinated? This makes no sense... Regardless: The codex says the point of indoctrination is to leave people susceptible to their suggestions. They arn't puppeteers. The point of IT is to deny their suggestion or be tricked into taking it. The person only losing complete control of themselves after long time manipulation. I believe YOU SIR are the one that needs to read up.

[byne]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...



[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">But as ] discovered during his research into indoctrination at the facility, there is a balance between control and usefulness. The more control Sovereign has over a person, the less capable they become. Saren realized that to keep his mind free of Sovereign's control, he had to make himself an invaluable resource. He believed that Sovereign would allow him a reprieve from indoctrination, because the Reaper needed Saren's mind intact to find the [/color]Conduit. 


DERPPPPPPPPPPPP Saren was still MOSTLY in control of himself and again, look at all the terrible things he did BEFORE VIRMIRE when Sovy implanted him after meeting Shep there.


YOU DO NOT KNOW THE LORE THAT IS CLEAR.

You may not know it, but you have just provided a very valid argument for why the ending was as it is. The reapers were interested in Shepard (how many times in ME2 did Harbinger tell you he was after your mind, and had bigger plans for you). They want Shepard. Just like Cerberus (hint hint) wanted no alterations to be made to him, because they wanted it to be completely him. They need to, as subtley as possible, make Shepard think he is doing everything out of his own will, because, the harder they press on him, the less "Shepard" he becomes. Just like Saren. They realized their flaw with Saren was that Saren was screwed up from the start and didn't have the respect of the people.

Remember the scene from the book when Grayson intentionally steers his shuttle away as a distraction later to find out that he actually steered it towards? The most deadly form of indoctrination is the type that is subtle enough to make you not even realize your actions are not your own, and are actually theirs.

Yeah like Saren? The same Saren that got the Geth, did all that terrible **** in ME1 who was SUBTLY INDOCTRINATED at that point?

When does Shepard EVER do ONE single thing to help reapers at ANY point in ANY game?

Tell me.

Well, there was that one part, at the end of 3, where Shepard can accomplish the Reapers' ultimate goals and turn everyone partially synthetic.

But I guess achieving the Reapers' main goal for them doesnt count as helping them, right?

[Caedryn Stonelaw]

I have another question, after what events do shepard's nightmares occur?

[Baelyn]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...



[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">But as ] discovered during his research into indoctrination at the facility, there is a balance between control and usefulness. The more control Sovereign has over a person, the less capable they become. Saren realized that to keep his mind free of Sovereign's control, he had to make himself an invaluable resource. He believed that Sovereign would allow him a reprieve from indoctrination, because the Reaper needed Saren's mind intact to find the [/color]Conduit. 


DERPPPPPPPPPPPP Saren was still MOSTLY in control of himself and again, look at all the terrible things he did BEFORE VIRMIRE when Sovy implanted him after meeting Shep there.


YOU DO NOT KNOW THE LORE THAT IS CLEAR.

You may not know it, but you have just provided a very valid argument for why the ending was as it is. The reapers were interested in Shepard (how many times in ME2 did Harbinger tell you he was after your mind, and had bigger plans for you). They want Shepard. Just like Cerberus (hint hint) wanted no alterations to be made to him, because they wanted it to be completely him. They need to, as subtley as possible, make Shepard think he is doing everything out of his own will, because, the harder they press on him, the less "Shepard" he becomes. Just like Saren. They realized their flaw with Saren was that Saren was screwed up from the start and didn't have the respect of the people.

Remember the scene from the book when Grayson intentionally steers his shuttle away as a distraction later to find out that he actually steered it towards? The most deadly form of indoctrination is the type that is subtle enough to make you not even realize your actions are not your own, and are actually theirs.

Yeah like Saren? The same Saren that got the Geth, did all that terrible **** in ME1 who was SUBTLY INDOCTRINATED at that point?

When does Shepard EVER do ONE single thing to help reapers at ANY point in ANY game?

Tell me.

Picking "Control" - like Illusive Man (INDOCTRINATED) or "Synthesis - Saren (INDOCTRINATED)."

Shepard hasn't done anything yet (until the final scene of the game). How are you not understanding that this final scene is a battle for Shepards mind, to determine whether the indoctrination will succeed or fail?

Its the last ditch effort of the Reapers to manipulate Shepard into doing what he has been against since the beginning of the series.

[RavenEyry]

People who don't believe the ending could be Shep visualising a fight with indoctrination need to check out all the examples here: http://tvtropes.org/...CenterOfTheMind

[Jaze55]

byne wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...



[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">But as ] discovered during his research into indoctrination at the facility, there is a balance between control and usefulness. The more control Sovereign has over a person, the less capable they become. Saren realized that to keep his mind free of Sovereign's control, he had to make himself an invaluable resource. He believed that Sovereign would allow him a reprieve from indoctrination, because the Reaper needed Saren's mind intact to find the [/color]Conduit. 


DERPPPPPPPPPPPP Saren was still MOSTLY in control of himself and again, look at all the terrible things he did BEFORE VIRMIRE when Sovy implanted him after meeting Shep there.


YOU DO NOT KNOW THE LORE THAT IS CLEAR.

You may not know it, but you have just provided a very valid argument for why the ending was as it is. The reapers were interested in Shepard (how many times in ME2 did Harbinger tell you he was after your mind, and had bigger plans for you). They want Shepard. Just like Cerberus (hint hint) wanted no alterations to be made to him, because they wanted it to be completely him. They need to, as subtley as possible, make Shepard think he is doing everything out of his own will, because, the harder they press on him, the less "Shepard" he becomes. Just like Saren. They realized their flaw with Saren was that Saren was screwed up from the start and didn't have the respect of the people.

Remember the scene from the book when Grayson intentionally steers his shuttle away as a distraction later to find out that he actually steered it towards? The most deadly form of indoctrination is the type that is subtle enough to make you not even realize your actions are not your own, and are actually theirs.

Yeah like Saren? The same Saren that got the Geth, did all that terrible **** in ME1 who was SUBTLY INDOCTRINATED at that point?

When does Shepard EVER do ONE single thing to help reapers at ANY point in ANY game?

Tell me.

Well, there was that one part, at the end of 3, where Shepard can accomplish the Reapers' ultimate goals and turn everyone partially synthetic.

But I guess achieving the Reapers' main goal for them doesnt count as helping them, right?

LOL WTF are you talking about?

The reapers goal is NOT to turn everyone synthetic you twit. Where the hell did you come up with that nonsense.

The reapers goal is to harvest organic life. Not turn everyone into a cyborg. 

******. Also, if according to your Theory none of that happened. SOOOOOOO no matter what, even if you DO choose Synthesis OR control ..........


IT DIDN'T HAPPEN DID IT. So again, Shep wakes up as a husk or brain dead.


lolol this is hilarious how you people don't see how flawed this stupid insane theory is.

EDIT- let me be clear. The reapers goal is to stop organics making that dumb "tech singularity" or whatever we are calling it BY harvesting organinc life and then...

STORING THEM IN REAPER FORM.

Not ****ing turning everyone into Data from Star Trek.
 If that was the case the Reapers would have an army of cyborgs not husks..


ps - DERPPPP

Modifié par MassEffected555, 21 mars 2012 - 07:04 .

[I Soya I]

Caedryn Stonelaw wrote...

I have another question, after what events do shepard's nightmares occur?

Arrival.

[ArkkAngel007]

dreman9999 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...



[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">But as ] discovered during his research into indoctrination at the facility, there is a balance between control and usefulness. The more control Sovereign has over a person, the less capable they become. Saren realized that to keep his mind free of Sovereign's control, he had to make himself an invaluable resource. He believed that Sovereign would allow him a reprieve from indoctrination, because the Reaper needed Saren's mind intact to find the [/color]Conduit. 


DERPPPPPPPPPPPP Saren was still MOSTLY in control of himself and again, look at all the terrible things he did BEFORE VIRMIRE when Sovy implanted him after meeting Shep there.


YOU DO NOT KNOW THE LORE THAT IS CLEAR.

You may not know it, but you have just provided a very valid argument for why the ending was as it is. The reapers were interested in Shepard (how many times in ME2 did Harbinger tell you he was after your mind, and had bigger plans for you). They want Shepard. Just like Cerberus (hint hint) wanted no alterations to be made to him, because they wanted it to be completely him. They need to, as subtley as possible, make Shepard think he is doing everything out of his own will, because, the harder they press on him, the less "Shepard" he becomes. Just like Saren. They realized their flaw with Saren was that Saren was screwed up from the start and didn't have the respect of the people.

Remember the scene from the book when Grayson intentionally steers his shuttle away as a distraction later to find out that he actually steered it towards? The most deadly form of indoctrination is the type that is subtle enough to make you not even realize your actions are not your own, and are actually theirs.

Yeah like Saren? The same Saren that got the Geth, did all that terrible **** in ME1 who was SUBTLY INDOCTRINATED at that point?

When does Shepard EVER do ONE single thing to help reapers at ANY point in ANY game?

Tell me.

Your not understand the concept of being in the process of indoctrination and being fully indoctrinated.

Considering this is the first time, if IT is valid in any case, that we've seen someone like Shepard undergo indoctrination in their own mind, no one can understand that whole concept.  It's an unprecendented situation.  Pretending we understand it all, on either side of the argument, is just fooling ourselves into thinking we know this better than BioWare.

Again, that doesn't mean IT is true or not, only that us trying to get in a **** measuring contest over lore on something that's never happened in the franchise before is ridiculous.

And despite his horrible nature, MassEffected is correct that you can only be indoctrinated and not indoctrinated.  The only middle ground is the process and, in lore, that is a very, very short process.

[Adagimp]

Here's my take on the the IT.

Recent posts by the top dogs at Bioware really do make it seem like indoctrination was not intended, but even if it was not the company's intention they are still poised to use it and be perceived as having pulled off one of the greatest deceits in history. The IT could be easily implemented via the DLC in April and as long as no one at Bioware says anything, then how would we know that they didn't intend to use it all along? Bioware has every reason to take the IT theory and run with it.

[ArkkAngel007]

I Soya I wrote...

Caedryn Stonelaw wrote...

I have another question, after what events do shepard's nightmares occur?

Arrival.

Earth actually.  Unless you've seen anything I haven't.

[dreman9999]

MassEffected555 wrote...

byne wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Baelyn wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...



[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">But as ] discovered during his research into indoctrination at the facility, there is a balance between control and usefulness. The more control Sovereign has over a person, the less capable they become. Saren realized that to keep his mind free of Sovereign's control, he had to make himself an invaluable resource. He believed that Sovereign would allow him a reprieve from indoctrination, because the Reaper needed Saren's mind intact to find the [/color]Conduit. 


DERPPPPPPPPPPPP Saren was still MOSTLY in control of himself and again, look at all the terrible things he did BEFORE VIRMIRE when Sovy implanted him after meeting Shep there.


YOU DO NOT KNOW THE LORE THAT IS CLEAR.

You may not know it, but you have just provided a very valid argument for why the ending was as it is. The reapers were interested in Shepard (how many times in ME2 did Harbinger tell you he was after your mind, and had bigger plans for you). They want Shepard. Just like Cerberus (hint hint) wanted no alterations to be made to him, because they wanted it to be completely him. They need to, as subtley as possible, make Shepard think he is doing everything out of his own will, because, the harder they press on him, the less "Shepard" he becomes. Just like Saren. They realized their flaw with Saren was that Saren was screwed up from the start and didn't have the respect of the people.

Remember the scene from the book when Grayson intentionally steers his shuttle away as a distraction later to find out that he actually steered it towards? The most deadly form of indoctrination is the type that is subtle enough to make you not even realize your actions are not your own, and are actually theirs.

Yeah like Saren? The same Saren that got the Geth, did all that terrible **** in ME1 who was SUBTLY INDOCTRINATED at that point?

When does Shepard EVER do ONE single thing to help reapers at ANY point in ANY game?

Tell me.

Well, there was that one part, at the end of 3, where Shepard can accomplish the Reapers' ultimate goals and turn everyone partially synthetic.

But I guess achieving the Reapers' main goal for them doesnt count as helping them, right?

LOL WTF are you talking about?

The reapers goal is NOT to turn everyone synthetic you twit. Where the hell did you come up with that nonsense.

The reapers goal is to harvest organic life. Not turn everyone into a cyborg. 

******. Also, if according to your Theory none of that happened. SOOOOOOO no matter what, even if you DO choose Synthesis OR control ..........


IT DIDN'T HAPPEN DID IT. So again, Shep wakes up as a husk or brain dead.


lolol this is hilarious how you people don't see how flawed this stupid insane theory is.

The reapers goal is forced synthssis of machines and organics...Remeber the human reaper in ME2. That's what the sythesis choice is.