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[I Soya I]

Capeo wrote...

I Soya I wrote...

Ok so uh, I just went on youtube to watch the synthesis ending of ME3 and Sarens final words in ME1 and they pretty much say "Final stage of evolution" in regards to combining organics and synthetics, and Saren is literally implanted with cybernetics from Sovereign -.- so how would the synthesis ending and letting the reapers live not be helping the reapers? I'm not trying to rekindle the flame war, I just want clarification.

The Reapers are in a sense trying to help us.  By merging synths and organics their is no need to Reap anymore.  

Right, but my point is that that's what Saren thought when he was indoctrinated, and MassEffected555 was saying that there was no link to this and picking synthesis didn't have anything to do with indoctrination and disproved the theory. So although you may be right, I am failing to see how it disproves the theory.  Because according to the theory, the thought process you are useing is what the Catalist wants you to think. I'm obviously missing the point of his argument in that regard.

[byne]

MassEffected555 wrote...

I am THE biggest jerk you will ever meet if you are trying to destroy something I love.

You theory destroys all the lore that has been established for the past games and books.

Also - Benezia is described as "exceptionally strong willed" and look what happened to her. The spiritual leader, the 800+ year old Asari that has been NOTHIGN but a force of good her entire life, did.

So there ya go. More proof your ASSUMPTIONS on what happens are false.

Also, what happens if you DON"T para/rena Saren? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????

How am I destroying something you love by trying to find a way to explain the endings in a way that doesnt contradict everything we know about the ME universe?

Benezia spent significant amounts of time aboard Sovereign. No matter how strong willed you are, being inside a freakin Reaper is going to get you indoctrinated damned quick.

I dont see how it matters if you dont para/rena Saren, other than it proves Shepard sucks at persuasion. Doesnt prove anything about indoctrination.

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Saren couldn't cure the Genophage and ally the Krogan with the Turians, he couldn't end a 300 year old war with the Quarians and the Geth, and he couldn't unite the entire galaxy against a common foe... Neither could TIM... But Shepard did exactly that. Do you still believe that he couldn't resist indoctrination? Shepard built his career on making the impossible look easy.

[Caedryn Stonelaw]

Stakis wrote...

i hope you guys realize that the indocrination theory ( wich i also support after restarting the game and carefully looking at the kid scenes ) proves that the game is unfinished ?

i mean lets think about it, Green or Blue = Shep is indocrinated , game is not over, reapers are still doing their thing, and have good old shep turned into a mindless husk running against some wall in london, this is the easy mode for bioware they only need a epilogue showing everyone getting harvested.

Red ending however means sheps is free ( at least for a while ) of the indocrination, and that means his up and running again to activate the crucible with still harbinger and even TIM to be dealt with, i dont think bioware wants to go that road since it implies alot of work to be done.

Or as I stated before bioware did it for two reasons
 1) to keep the ending from being leaked due to internal mole

and
2) To force players to make the decision whether they themselves were indoctrinated without any option to use a guide or other player feedback in forming the decision themselves.

and they already may have most of the content done as a result of continuing to work on it up until this nebulous april date. It still wouldn't be great that they gave us no inclination that this was the plan, but its better than assuming that .95% of playtime soured our epic journey.

[Golferguy758]

Itt very very angry people arguing over theory that exists solely as a mechanism to stave off the otherwise bad writing that is the current ending.

does it really matte what each person believes happens? Lots if speculation remember?

Besides we can find out what really happens in the next exciting episode of dragon ba- I mean mass effect 3!

[Tsantilas]

byne wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

[*]Bioware states the game is complete and it stands alone without DLC[*]That means the game is incomplete ->
Indoctrination Theory doesn't work.[/list]

Bioware also said that the endings wouldnt be a choice between A, B, and C.

I dont see why you'd trust anything they say.


I snipped out the part where you said there were 16 endings, simply because I dont know what game you played. I had one ending in multiple colors.

I like how Bioware's statements are always used as evidence to support the Indoctrination theory, but if I mention Bioware's statements in any counter-argument "well, they've lied before, I don't believe them".  Hypocrisy much?

As for the 16 different endings, thats how many there are supposedly in the game, +1 secret ending from NG+... supposedly.  That's what the official word is.  Apparently theres 8 different ones depending on various choices, and double those depending on if you saved the collector base or not. 

[Barhador]

I don't see how Rays post debunks indoc theory. People always assume that a DLC is needed to 'prove' the theory, but in reality people can believe what they want.

Modifié par Barhador, 21 mars 2012 - 07:55 .

[I Soya I]

Tsantilas wrote...

byne wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

[*]Bioware states the game is complete and it stands alone without DLC[*]That means the game is incomplete ->
Indoctrination Theory doesn't work.[/list]

Bioware also said that the endings wouldnt be a choice between A, B, and C.

I dont see why you'd trust anything they say.


I snipped out the part where you said there were 16 endings, simply because I dont know what game you played. I had one ending in multiple colors.

I like how Bioware's statements are always used as evidence to support the Indoctrination theory, but if I mention Bioware's statements in any counter-argument "well, they've lied before, I don't believe them".  Hypocrisy much?

As for the 16 different endings, thats how many there are supposedly in the game, +1 secret ending from NG+... supposedly.  That's what the official word is.  Apparently theres 8 different ones depending on various choices, and double those depending on if you saved the collector base or not. 

[*]I have never once seen a Bioware statement that said the game was complete. If you could show me this direct quote I will get off your back right now.

[Jaze55]

RavenEyry wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Pretty sure he has the dreams after every priority mission.

There are more than three priority missions but only three dreams.

I could be wrong. I wasn't sure which is why I said "Pretty sure"

Actaully I just started my 3rd game so I'll keep an eye out this time. 

I didn't finish Palaven yet on this play through. 

[byne]

Tsantilas wrote...

byne wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

[*]Bioware states the game is complete and it stands alone without DLC[*]That means the game is incomplete ->
Indoctrination Theory doesn't work.[/list]

Bioware also said that the endings wouldnt be a choice between A, B, and C.

I dont see why you'd trust anything they say.


I snipped out the part where you said there were 16 endings, simply because I dont know what game you played. I had one ending in multiple colors.

I like how Bioware's statements are always used as evidence to support the Indoctrination theory, but if I mention Bioware's statements in any counter-argument "well, they've lied before, I don't believe them".  Hypocrisy much?

I dont really use any of Bioware's statements to support Indoctrination Theory, as most of them are too vague to get any kind of information out of.

Others may do so, but I do not.

I simply use the fact that if you dont think it was indoctrination the endings are completely horrible and nonsensical to support Indoctrination Theory, and also whatever evidence has been compiled in the first page of my indoctrination thread.

And before you say anything, yes, I'm aware most of the evidence is circumstantial at best, but I'd prefer to believe it over believing Space Magic and Plotholes

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Most of you will not see clearly while you're still blinded by your anger... So you'll just set out to crush what little hope others have. Who does that serve? Does that really do you any good?

[Silhouett3]

Tsantilas wrote...

 Too bad, thats the Shepard we want to portray."

So you are assuming the indoctrination theory is wronged only beacause you are assuming it's outside the design Bioware did intend to. 
Renegade Shepard says That's cute.

[Jaze55]

lol I was trying to find exactly how many dreams he has and came across this explanation-

"As someone who studied Freudian psychology, I can say without a doubt, that the dream represents Shepard's desire to be a pedophile."

[I Soya I]

MassEffected555 wrote...

lol I was trying to find exactly how many dreams he has and came across this explanation-

"As someone who studied Freudian psychology, I can say without a doubt, that the dream represents Shepard's desire to be a pedophile."

I'm dropping everything I said before. This is what the game is about.

[Jaze55]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Most of you will not see clearly while you're still blinded by your anger... So you'll just set out to crush what little hope others have. Who does that serve? Does that really do you any good?

You are breaking the games lore.

That is not a good thing. 

lol and I am not blinded by anger. You however are blinded by delusional fantasy. 

Stop breaking the lore of the game I love - and apparatnly you all love, just to make your delusion true.

[Tsantilas]

I Soya I wrote...

[*]I have never once seen a Bioware statement that said the game was complete. If you could show me this direct quote I will get off your back right now.

From the official statement linked in the OP:

Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel whenthey finished playing through it.  The journey you undertake in Mass Effect provokes an intense range of highly personal emotions in the player; even so, the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us...

....Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey...

...On one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded;


Bolded the important parts.  Are you seriously going to argue that they would sell a game that depends on the player buying DLC, and those who don't do not get to finish the story?  Honestly... common sense people.  They've made it pretty clear that they didn't intend any "secret free post ending DLC that will complete the game so that people don't get spoiled by leaks"

Modifié par Tsantilas, 21 mars 2012 - 07:59 .

[Golferguy758]

Golferguy758 wrote...

Itt very very angry people arguing over theory that exists solely as a mechanism to stave off the otherwise bad writing that is the current ending.

does it really matte what each person believes happens? Lots if speculation remember?

Besides we can find out what really happens in the next exciting episode of dragon ba- I mean mass effect 3!

[Jaze55]

byne wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

byne wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

[*]Bioware states the game is complete and it stands alone without DLC[*]That means the game is incomplete ->
Indoctrination Theory doesn't work.[/list]

Bioware also said that the endings wouldnt be a choice between A, B, and C.

I dont see why you'd trust anything they say.


I snipped out the part where you said there were 16 endings, simply because I dont know what game you played. I had one ending in multiple colors.

I like how Bioware's statements are always used as evidence to support the Indoctrination theory, but if I mention Bioware's statements in any counter-argument "well, they've lied before, I don't believe them".  Hypocrisy much?

I dont really use any of Bioware's statements to support Indoctrination Theory, as most of them are too vague to get any kind of information out of.

Others may do so, but I do not.

I simply use the fact that if you dont think it was indoctrination the endings are completely horrible and nonsensical to support Indoctrination Theory, and also whatever evidence has been compiled in the first page of my indoctrination thread.

And before you say anything, yes, I'm aware most of the evidence is circumstantial at best, but I'd prefer to believe it over believing Space Magic and Plotholes

[*]OK and its making me bullet for some reason.[*]You are NOT believing in space magic or plot holes if you accept the ending.[*]You are believing in BAD WRITING that we want changed.[*]I do not want it changed with even MORE bad writing.[*]Do you understand?[*]ANd I really don't like how I quote you and its making bullet points for everything. 

[byne]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Most of you will not see clearly while you're still blinded by your anger... So you'll just set out to crush what little hope others have. Who does that serve? Does that really do you any good?

You are breaking the games lore.

That is not a good thing. 

lol and I am not blinded by anger. You however are blinded by delusional fantasy. 

Stop breaking the lore of the game I love - and apparatnly you all love, just to make your delusion true.

Can you explain how the lore of the game is being broken in any way?

Saren had an entire lab devoted to studying indoctrination, and even he didnt fully understand it.

Assuming you fully understand it is just wishful thinking on your part.

[ArkkAngel007]

The IT was never to explain or make an excuse for DLC, only to make sense of the plotholes. It was only a different perception of the ending received.

All-in-all, we can only speculate, which isn't harming anyone or anything.

[byne]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

The IT was never to explain or make an excuse for DLC, only to make sense of the plotholes. It was only a different perception of the ending received.

All-in-all, we can only speculate, which isn't harming anyone or anything.

Lots of speculation!

From everyone!

[GBGriffin]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

The IT was never to explain or make an excuse for DLC, only to make sense of the plotholes. It was only a different perception of the ending received.

All-in-all, we can only speculate, which isn't harming anyone or anything.

This. The IT grew out of a need to clarify and make sense of the ending plotholes and such. It's 100% fan-made speculation that, to true believers, you honestly cannot prove incorrect without proper backing from BioWare (I personally think we've received it, but clearly people don't agree).

If they clarify and explain the current endings, unpleasant as they may be, or add to the content (hopefully new endngs and choices), then the IT theory has no reason to exist.

[Jaze55]

byne wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Most of you will not see clearly while you're still blinded by your anger... So you'll just set out to crush what little hope others have. Who does that serve? Does that really do you any good?

You are breaking the games lore.

That is not a good thing. 

lol and I am not blinded by anger. You however are blinded by delusional fantasy. 

Stop breaking the lore of the game I love - and apparatnly you all love, just to make your delusion true.

Can you explain how the lore of the game is being broken in any way?

Saren had an entire lab devoted to studying indoctrination, and even he didnt fully understand it.

Assuming you fully understand it is just wishful thinking on your part.

Ok don't compate me to a fictionous character please.

According to all the games lore, once you are indoctrinated you are simply indoctrinated.

having Shepard be the ONLY PERSON EVER to fully break free of indoc, is breaking the games lore.

In the scenerio laid out by the Indoc Theory Shepard is under the effects of Rapid Indoc. 

According the the games lore the only possible outcome for Shep, once the Theory ends, is that he is a husk or he is brain dead.

EVEN assuming you are all right and he is THE ONLY person to break it, and he does, how can you explain that he is going to be oK after? He just pops up and kills Reapers?

Shep is THAT strong that he can just brush off the attempt like someone hit him with a feather duster?

[Robhuzz]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

The IT was never to explain or make an excuse for DLC, only to make sense of the plotholes. It was only a different perception of the ending received.

All-in-all, we can only speculate, which isn't harming anyone or anything.

Well actually yes it is an excuse for DLC (though I'd prefer to call it a patch since then I'd be free for sure). Just explaining that Shepard indeed did suffer from indoctrination, getting Harby out of his head by choosing Red, still leaves Shepard KO on the floor with the Reapers still alive. That's still not the ending we're looking for. But at least the things we've seen so far could be explained properly by the theory.

[Jaze55]

There is simply no way for the story to continue after the theory unless you break all the lore about indoctrination that has been laid out in the past life of the Mass Effect Universe.