564 réponses à ce sujet

[Jeb231]

Barhador wrote...

I don't see how Rays post debunks indoc theory. People always assume that a DLC is needed to 'prove' the theory, but in reality people can believe what they want.

[byne]

MassEffected555 wrote...

EVEN assuming you are all right and he is THE ONLY person to break it, and he does, how can you explain that he is going to be oK after? He just pops up and kills Reapers?

Shep is THAT strong that he can just brush off the attempt like someone hit him with a feather duster?

Well Shepard is apparently awesome enough that s/he can jump into a beam of light and somehow turn everyone into robots, so I dont see why not.

Makes about as much sense.

[Tsantilas]

GBGriffin wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

The IT was never to explain or make an excuse for DLC, only to make sense of the plotholes. It was only a different perception of the ending received.

All-in-all, we can only speculate, which isn't harming anyone or anything.

This. The IT grew out of a need to clarify and make sense of the ending plotholes and such. It's 100% fan-made speculation that, to true believers, you honestly cannot prove incorrect without proper backing from BioWare (I personally think we've received it, but clearly people don't agree).

If they clarify and explain the current endings, unpleasant as they may be, or add to the content (hopefully new endngs and choices), then the IT theory has no reason to exist.

Yes yes that's all good and dandy.  But the IT theory without any post ending DLC is pretty much this:

"You wake up in London. Reapers are still killing everyone.  Roll credits".  And then you get a pop-up stating that you've defeated the reapers and Shepard is a legend.  BUY OUR DLC!

That's even less of an ending than what the current plot hole filled mess is.

[Ghost of a Messiah]

MassEffected555 wrote...

byne wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Most of you will not see clearly while you're still blinded by your anger... So you'll just set out to crush what little hope others have. Who does that serve? Does that really do you any good?

You are breaking the games lore.

That is not a good thing. 

lol and I am not blinded by anger. You however are blinded by delusional fantasy. 

Stop breaking the lore of the game I love - and apparatnly you all love, just to make your delusion true.

Can you explain how the lore of the game is being broken in any way?

Saren had an entire lab devoted to studying indoctrination, and even he didnt fully understand it.

Assuming you fully understand it is just wishful thinking on your part.

Ok don't compate me to a fictionous character please.

According to all the games lore, once you are indoctrinated you are simply indoctrinated.

having Shepard be the ONLY PERSON EVER to fully break free of indoc, is breaking the games lore.

In the scenerio laid out by the Indoc Theory Shepard is under the effects of Rapid Indoc. 

According the the games lore the only possible outcome for Shep, once the Theory ends, is that he is a husk or he is brain dead.

EVEN assuming you are all right and he is THE ONLY person to break it, and he does, how can you explain that he is going to be oK after? He just pops up and kills Reapers?

Shep is THAT strong that he can just brush off the attempt like someone hit him with a feather duster?

If you played the game to the end then you know the choice to destroy isn't easy. But if anyone can then Shepard can.

[Silhouett3]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Most of you will not see clearly while you're still blinded by your anger... So you'll just set out to crush what little hope others have. Who does that serve? Does that really do you any good?

They can't get back at Bioware, but they can do it to those who somehow create a probility for Bioware to have more credit. Point is to be destructive and want everyone at your side for the sake of destruction ( of Bioware I suppose )

[ArkkAngel007]

MassEffected555 wrote...

byne wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

byne wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

[*]Bioware states the game is complete and it stands alone without DLC[*]That means the game is incomplete ->
Indoctrination Theory doesn't work.[/list]

Bioware also said that the endings wouldnt be a choice between A, B, and C.

I dont see why you'd trust anything they say.


I snipped out the part where you said there were 16 endings, simply because I dont know what game you played. I had one ending in multiple colors.

I like how Bioware's statements are always used as evidence to support the Indoctrination theory, but if I mention Bioware's statements in any counter-argument "well, they've lied before, I don't believe them".  Hypocrisy much?

I dont really use any of Bioware's statements to support Indoctrination Theory, as most of them are too vague to get any kind of information out of.

Others may do so, but I do not.

I simply use the fact that if you dont think it was indoctrination the endings are completely horrible and nonsensical to support Indoctrination Theory, and also whatever evidence has been compiled in the first page of my indoctrination thread.

And before you say anything, yes, I'm aware most of the evidence is circumstantial at best, but I'd prefer to believe it over believing Space Magic and Plotholes

[*]OK and its making me bullet for some reason.[*]You are NOT believing in space magic or plot holes if you accept the ending.[*]You are believing in BAD WRITING that we want changed.[*]I do not want it changed with even MORE bad writing.[*]Do you understand?[*]ANd I really don't like how I quote you and its making bullet points for everything. 

[*]Yay for bullets![*]IT being bad writing is just an opinion.  There are also different forms of IT out there, since it's speculation in the first place, so there are different opinions there as well.[*]The writing is bad in the ending mostly due to plot holes.  The Guardian is an excpetion to that, but it is still horrible writing.  Of course, that is my opinion.[*]We know why you don't like IT.  That's fine, you have a right to that.  But your execution on expressing that opinion is the problem.  Just because you are so passionate doesn't make it an excuse to how you treat people on here. 

[Jaze55]

Whatever. Actually keep believing in the theory. I don't know why I want you to stop honestly.

BW isn't going for it and never intended it so actually please keep it up or I won't have anyone to laugh at.

Yes, I laugh at you all. You are nothing more then a group of delusionists that behave like a cult. I find you all quite pathetic and amusing.

Bad writing or far fetched theory and you choose to believe in the theory. Any sane person would see the fail in that I am sorry to tell you.

Keep it up though. I have been on these forums for a week just laughing at you people while at the same time trying to educate you on the game that you profess to love.

You know nothing about the lore and all you are doing is trying to break it.

It not going to happen.

You should be focusing on getting the game fixed because of the bad writing not wasting your time trying to prove to everyone how this stupid assanine theory is a fact. Just like I should stop telling you it isn't but I pitied you guys and wanted to help.

I see there is no point or no hope for you now.

But keep it up. I will just buy more popcorn.

[GBGriffin]

Tsantilas wrote...

Yes yes that's all good and dandy.  But the IT theory without any post ending DLC is pretty much this:

"You wake up in London. Reapers are still killing everyone.  Roll credits".  And then you get a pop-up stating that you've defeated the reapers and Shepard is a legend.  BUY OUR DLC!

That's even less of an ending than what the current plot hole filled mess is.

I know. I don't support the IT, and honestly, I hope they don't implement it because:

The only way, according to what I've read, for Shep to break free of indoctrination is to pick the Destroy ending. In the other 2 endings, (s)he succumbs to it. 

That's even more limiting than what we have now. It suggests there is only one right answer that can lead to future DLC, while the other two might result in elaborate game overs. What about the people who have actually argued pretty decent defenses over these endings? How is that fair to them?

IMO, expand the current endings by giving more options and choices, a wider from range from very bad to sunshine and bunnies. Don't narrow the field down to "Pick Destroy or else Shep becomes indoctrinated"

Modifié par GBGriffin, 21 mars 2012 - 08:12 .

[Tsantilas]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

If you played the game to the end then you know the choice to destroy isn't easy. But if anyone can then Shepard can.

Really?  That's your argument?

Spacehitlerchild: You can either destroy the reapers, and maybe you'll die without medical attention when your implants stop working.

or

You can die and control the reapers

or

You can die and make everyone organic/synthetic hybrids.

How is that a hard choice?  It's a no brainer.  Especially if you already sided with the Quarians against the geth, or simply don't care if the geth die because they're just robots.

[ArkkAngel007]

Tsantilas wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

The IT was never to explain or make an excuse for DLC, only to make sense of the plotholes. It was only a different perception of the ending received.

All-in-all, we can only speculate, which isn't harming anyone or anything.

This. The IT grew out of a need to clarify and make sense of the ending plotholes and such. It's 100% fan-made speculation that, to true believers, you honestly cannot prove incorrect without proper backing from BioWare (I personally think we've received it, but clearly people don't agree).

If they clarify and explain the current endings, unpleasant as they may be, or add to the content (hopefully new endngs and choices), then the IT theory has no reason to exist.

Yes yes that's all good and dandy.  But the IT theory without any post ending DLC is pretty much this:

"You wake up in London. Reapers are still killing everyone.  Roll credits".  And then you get a pop-up stating that you've defeated the reapers and Shepard is a legend.  BUY OUR DLC!

That's even less of an ending than what the current plot hole filled mess is.

True, which is why many of us are a part of ReTakeME3.  In either case, we were mislead, and probably worse-so with IT.

And again, it's only a theory based on speculation.  There's a very high possibility it isn't applicable, demonstrated by that very in-game text for example.  Those who say there is no way for IT to be wrong are the delusionals (no offense intended, just my view).

[Robhuzz]

MassEffected555 wrote...

There is simply no way for the story to continue after the theory unless you break all the lore about indoctrination that has been laid out in the past life of the Mass Effect Universe.

Just because Benezia saw no way out and said she would never be the same again doesn't mean you can't recover from (failed) indoctrination. There's hardly any info on that matter. I just feel this is an argument pulled out hastily to disprove the IT. And the haters are saying we're grasping at straws.

If Shepard beats the latest attempt at indoctrination he should be fine and can proceed to destroy the Reapers for real. Once they are gone, the indoctrination signals are gone as well. All those only partially indoctrinated should be okay, only the ghouls, those whose minds are already gone, will probably die because they can no longer think for themselves.

[byne]

MassEffected555 wrote...

I see there is no point or no hope for you now.

We have hope.

More than you know.

[Silhouett3]

Why do you guys assume Shepard's tale must end as a happy one? All the goodbyes to every current and former crew member in London were just said to make the scene somewhat a bit more emotional?

Modifié par Silhouett3, 21 mars 2012 - 08:19 .

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Silhouett3 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Most of you will not see clearly while you're still blinded by your anger... So you'll just set out to crush what little hope others have. Who does that serve? Does that really do you any good?

They can't get back at Bioware, but they can do it to those who somehow create a probility for Bioware to have more credit. Point is to be destructive and want everyone at your side for the sake of destruction ( of Bioware I suppose )

They are hurt and they want blood... I understand... Now I think they're just trying to justify their continued vindictiveness even beyond getting what they want... That dosen't just hurt Bioware, that hurts everyone, and that is not right.

[Golferguy758]

So much mad all up in this topic

[Tsantilas]

Robhuzz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

There is simply no way for the story to continue after the theory unless you break all the lore about indoctrination that has been laid out in the past life of the Mass Effect Universe.

Just because Benezia saw no way out and said she would never be the same again doesn't mean you can't recover from (failed) indoctrination. There's hardly any info on that matter. I just feel this is an argument pulled out hastily to disprove the IT. And the haters are saying we're grasping at straws.

If Shepard beats the latest attempt at indoctrination he should be fine and can proceed to destroy the Reapers for real. Once they are gone, the indoctrination signals are gone as well. All those only partially indoctrinated should be okay, only the ghouls, those whose minds are already gone, will probably die because they can no longer think for themselves.

You break out of Indoctrination by choosing to destroy the reapers, and if you actually played multiplayer or played single player by doing every side quest and exploration stuff and get 4000+ readiness/war assets whatever, you'll actually survive, and wake up in London.

If you choose not to buy any supposed "post ending dlc" that expands on the ending, that is what you get as an ending.

You don't know what happens to anyone because all the cut scenes after choosing destroy are in shepard's head.  The reapers are still whiping everyone out.  But somehow that pesky pop-up keeps telling you you beat the game.

How does this make any sense to you people?

[byne]

Silhouett3 wrote...

Why do you guys assume Shepard's tale must end as a happy one? All the goodbyes to every current and former crew member in London were just said to make the scene somewhat a bit more emotional?

I dont assume it has to be happy, but theres a big difference between a bittersweet ending and a Gainax Ending

[Scitenik]

I was leaning towards actually believing the indoctrination theory last night after watching all the videos and reading all the evidence that people have compiled, but after the blog post today, I now firmly believe that it was never the intentional of the ending to be taken as indoctrination. If anything, I think maybe they considered it at some point, and those elements are still in the game and that it was too late to change them up that much.

Still, I think that if Bioware decided to go with the theory after the fact and make it canon, that would be very impressive and would seemingly please most of the protestors. It wouldn't even take that much work.

[Tsantilas]

byne wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

Why do you guys assume Shepard's tale must end as a happy one? All the goodbyes to every current and former crew member in London were just said to make the scene somewhat a bit more emotional?

I dont assume it has to be happy, but theres a big difference between a bittersweet ending and a Gainax Ending

This is a better ending than the Indoctrination Theory.

[darkiddd]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Whatever. Actually keep believing in the theory. I don't know why I want you to stop honestly.

BW isn't going for it and never intended it so actually please keep it up or I won't have anyone to laugh at.

Yes, I laugh at you all. You are nothing more then a group of delusionists that behave like a cult. I find you all quite pathetic and amusing.

Bad writing or far fetched theory and you choose to believe in the theory. Any sane person would see the fail in that I am sorry to tell you.

Keep it up though. I have been on these forums for a week just laughing at you people while at the same time trying to educate you on the game that you profess to love.

You know nothing about the lore and all you are doing is trying to break it.

It not going to happen.

You should be focusing on getting the game fixed because of the bad writing not wasting your time trying to prove to everyone how this stupid assanine theory is a fact. Just like I should stop telling you it isn't but I pitied you guys and wanted to help.

I see there is no point or no hope for you now.

But keep it up. I will just buy more popcorn.

All your post are so chilidish. They scream everywhere "I fear they might be right but I don't want them to be right" "why do you insist on this? you know nothing about the lore, you are stupid" "whatever, I havent succeeded in dismantle your theory but I'm still right and Bioware will never do that" (as If you knew )

You are annoying man. And you aren't annoying because of what you defend but because of the form you express your thoughts and your poor manners. Grow up.   

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Tsantilas wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

There is simply no way for the story to continue after the theory unless you break all the lore about indoctrination that has been laid out in the past life of the Mass Effect Universe.

Just because Benezia saw no way out and said she would never be the same again doesn't mean you can't recover from (failed) indoctrination. There's hardly any info on that matter. I just feel this is an argument pulled out hastily to disprove the IT. And the haters are saying we're grasping at straws.

If Shepard beats the latest attempt at indoctrination he should be fine and can proceed to destroy the Reapers for real. Once they are gone, the indoctrination signals are gone as well. All those only partially indoctrinated should be okay, only the ghouls, those whose minds are already gone, will probably die because they can no longer think for themselves.

You break out of Indoctrination by choosing to destroy the reapers, and if you actually played multiplayer or played single player by doing every side quest and exploration stuff and get 4000+ readiness/war assets whatever, you'll actually survive, and wake up in London.

If you choose not to buy any supposed "post ending dlc" that expands on the ending, that is what you get as an ending.

You don't know what happens to anyone because all the cut scenes after choosing destroy are in shepard's head.  The reapers are still whiping everyone out.  But somehow that pesky pop-up keeps telling you you beat the game.

How does this make any sense to you people?

That's exactly what makes sense about IT. Because it dosen't make sense.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth?
-Sherlock Holmes

[Jaze55]

darkiddd wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Whatever. Actually keep believing in the theory. I don't know why I want you to stop honestly.

BW isn't going for it and never intended it so actually please keep it up or I won't have anyone to laugh at.

Yes, I laugh at you all. You are nothing more then a group of delusionists that behave like a cult. I find you all quite pathetic and amusing.

Bad writing or far fetched theory and you choose to believe in the theory. Any sane person would see the fail in that I am sorry to tell you.

Keep it up though. I have been on these forums for a week just laughing at you people while at the same time trying to educate you on the game that you profess to love.

You know nothing about the lore and all you are doing is trying to break it.

It not going to happen.

You should be focusing on getting the game fixed because of the bad writing not wasting your time trying to prove to everyone how this stupid assanine theory is a fact. Just like I should stop telling you it isn't but I pitied you guys and wanted to help.

I see there is no point or no hope for you now.

But keep it up. I will just buy more popcorn.

All your post are so chilidish. They scream everywhere "I fear they might be right but I don't want them to be right" "why do you insist on this? you know nothing about the lore, you are stupid" "whatever, I havent succeeded in dismantle your theory but I'm still right and Bioware will never do that" (as If you knew )

You are annoying man. And you aren't annoying because of what you defend but because of the form you express your thoughts and your poor manners. Grow up.   

No moron. You and your cult are annoying. 30 posts a day with EVIDENCE and PROOF of the theory.

You guys are a cult. That is not a good thing. 

You are a nothing mroe then someone suffering from delusions because you refuse to accept the fact the Bioware simply wrote a terrible ending. 

[Vromrig]

Go away for lunch. Return. Thread has become like Krogan mating war.

Unpleasant.

[byne]

MassEffected555 wrote...

darkiddd wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Whatever. Actually keep believing in the theory. I don't know why I want you to stop honestly.

BW isn't going for it and never intended it so actually please keep it up or I won't have anyone to laugh at.

Yes, I laugh at you all. You are nothing more then a group of delusionists that behave like a cult. I find you all quite pathetic and amusing.

Bad writing or far fetched theory and you choose to believe in the theory. Any sane person would see the fail in that I am sorry to tell you.

Keep it up though. I have been on these forums for a week just laughing at you people while at the same time trying to educate you on the game that you profess to love.

You know nothing about the lore and all you are doing is trying to break it.

It not going to happen.

You should be focusing on getting the game fixed because of the bad writing not wasting your time trying to prove to everyone how this stupid assanine theory is a fact. Just like I should stop telling you it isn't but I pitied you guys and wanted to help.

I see there is no point or no hope for you now.

But keep it up. I will just buy more popcorn.

All your post are so chilidish. They scream everywhere "I fear they might be right but I don't want them to be right" "why do you insist on this? you know nothing about the lore, you are stupid" "whatever, I havent succeeded in dismantle your theory but I'm still right and Bioware will never do that" (as If you knew )

You are annoying man. And you aren't annoying because of what you defend but because of the form you express your thoughts and your poor manners. Grow up.   

No moron. You and your cult are annoying. 30 posts a day with EVIDENCE and PROOF of the theory.

You guys are a cult. That is not a good thing. 

You are a nothing mroe then someone suffering from delusions because you refuse to accept the fact the Bioware simply wrote a terrible ending. 

Does that make me the leader of a cult?

Thats pretty badass.

[Robhuzz]

Tsantilas wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

There is simply no way for the story to continue after the theory unless you break all the lore about indoctrination that has been laid out in the past life of the Mass Effect Universe.

Just because Benezia saw no way out and said she would never be the same again doesn't mean you can't recover from (failed) indoctrination. There's hardly any info on that matter. I just feel this is an argument pulled out hastily to disprove the IT. And the haters are saying we're grasping at straws.

If Shepard beats the latest attempt at indoctrination he should be fine and can proceed to destroy the Reapers for real. Once they are gone, the indoctrination signals are gone as well. All those only partially indoctrinated should be okay, only the ghouls, those whose minds are already gone, will probably die because they can no longer think for themselves.

You break out of Indoctrination by choosing to destroy the reapers, and if you actually played multiplayer or played single player by doing every side quest and exploration stuff and get 4000+ readiness/war assets whatever, you'll actually survive, and wake up in London.

If you choose not to buy any supposed "post ending dlc" that expands on the ending, that is what you get as an ending.

You don't know what happens to anyone because all the cut scenes after choosing destroy are in shepard's head.  The reapers are still whiping everyone out.  But somehow that pesky pop-up keeps telling you you beat the game.

How does this make any sense to you people?

It's called 'nothing after being hit by Harbinger was real' and is a heck of a lot better than actually assuming the plot hole infested crap we got fed was real and was supposed to be THE ending to the trilogy. This way they can add the real endings in a patch (Yes I said patch since it would be auto installed on EVERY copy and would be free) later that (hopefully) will make sense.

At least that's what I hope they were planning all along. The alternative is that BioWare's writing now sucks beans, which is a lot harder to swallow.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 21 mars 2012 - 08:29 .