564 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaze55]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

There is simply no way for the story to continue after the theory unless you break all the lore about indoctrination that has been laid out in the past life of the Mass Effect Universe.

Just because Benezia saw no way out and said she would never be the same again doesn't mean you can't recover from (failed) indoctrination. There's hardly any info on that matter. I just feel this is an argument pulled out hastily to disprove the IT. And the haters are saying we're grasping at straws.

If Shepard beats the latest attempt at indoctrination he should be fine and can proceed to destroy the Reapers for real. Once they are gone, the indoctrination signals are gone as well. All those only partially indoctrinated should be okay, only the ghouls, those whose minds are already gone, will probably die because they can no longer think for themselves.

You break out of Indoctrination by choosing to destroy the reapers, and if you actually played multiplayer or played single player by doing every side quest and exploration stuff and get 4000+ readiness/war assets whatever, you'll actually survive, and wake up in London.

If you choose not to buy any supposed "post ending dlc" that expands on the ending, that is what you get as an ending.

You don't know what happens to anyone because all the cut scenes after choosing destroy are in shepard's head.  The reapers are still whiping everyone out.  But somehow that pesky pop-up keeps telling you you beat the game.

How does this make any sense to you people?

That's exactly what makes sense about IT. Because it dosen't make sense.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth?
-Sherlock Holmes

That is so ****ing awesome. I LOVE it.

Quoting a fictional character to prove a fictional theory.

PERFECT!

[GBGriffin]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...


That's exactly what makes sense about IT. Because it dosen't make sense.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth?
-Sherlock Holmes

The thing is, you can't eliminate the possibility that they rushed the ending and just launched it as is. You cannot eliminate that because the same proof for the IT also supports that theory, and both are just speculation.

[Stakis]

Caedryn Stonelaw wrote...

Stakis wrote...

i hope you guys realize that the indocrination theory ( wich i also support after restarting the game and carefully looking at the kid scenes ) proves that the game is unfinished ?

i mean lets think about it, Green or Blue = Shep is indocrinated , game is not over, reapers are still doing their thing, and have good old shep turned into a mindless husk running against some wall in london, this is the easy mode for bioware they only need a epilogue showing everyone getting harvested.

Red ending however means sheps is free ( at least for a while ) of the indocrination, and that means his up and running again to activate the crucible with still harbinger and even TIM to be dealt with, i dont think bioware wants to go that road since it implies alot of work to be done.

Or as I stated before bioware did it for two reasons
 1) to keep the ending from being leaked due to internal mole

and
2) To force players to make the decision whether they themselves were indoctrinated without any option to use a guide or other player feedback in forming the decision themselves.

and they already may have most of the content done as a result of continuing to work on it up until this nebulous april date. It still wouldn't be great that they gave us no inclination that this was the plan, but its better than assuming that .95% of playtime soured our epic journey.

As much as i want to believe in what your saying my friend, the truth is that we have the lead writer saying bosses are video gamey , so having shep in a final epic fight is kinda ruled out.

Then we have Dr Ray´s post, i dont think ppl read it carefully, first he starts by saying we are a minority, then goes about artistic integrity and clearly says that they are sticking with the ends we got, only thing we are going to get is closure ( prob regarding normandy and the crew ) and explanations about the ending, its basicaly a hint on how brilliant the writers are and how dumb we are , im pretty sure all we getting  is some kind of epilogue like the ones in DA.

[byne]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

There is simply no way for the story to continue after the theory unless you break all the lore about indoctrination that has been laid out in the past life of the Mass Effect Universe.

Just because Benezia saw no way out and said she would never be the same again doesn't mean you can't recover from (failed) indoctrination. There's hardly any info on that matter. I just feel this is an argument pulled out hastily to disprove the IT. And the haters are saying we're grasping at straws.

If Shepard beats the latest attempt at indoctrination he should be fine and can proceed to destroy the Reapers for real. Once they are gone, the indoctrination signals are gone as well. All those only partially indoctrinated should be okay, only the ghouls, those whose minds are already gone, will probably die because they can no longer think for themselves.

You break out of Indoctrination by choosing to destroy the reapers, and if you actually played multiplayer or played single player by doing every side quest and exploration stuff and get 4000+ readiness/war assets whatever, you'll actually survive, and wake up in London.

If you choose not to buy any supposed "post ending dlc" that expands on the ending, that is what you get as an ending.

You don't know what happens to anyone because all the cut scenes after choosing destroy are in shepard's head.  The reapers are still whiping everyone out.  But somehow that pesky pop-up keeps telling you you beat the game.

How does this make any sense to you people?

That's exactly what makes sense about IT. Because it dosen't make sense.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth?
-Sherlock Holmes

That is so ****ing awesome. I LOVE it.

Quoting a fictional character to prove a fictional theory.

PERFECT!

Except you're quoting what fictional characters say about indoctrination (itself a fictional idea) to disprove our supposedly fictional idea as well...

[Jaze55]

GBGriffin wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...


That's exactly what makes sense about IT. Because it dosen't make sense.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth?
-Sherlock Holmes

The thing is, you can't eliminate the possibility that they rushed the ending and just launched it as is. You cannot eliminate that because the same proof for the IT also supports that theory, and both are just speculation.

I disagree

Casey Hudsons startment, Rays statemens and the Twitter post say otherwise.

They plainly say the game is over. 

Pretty clear. 

[Jaze55]

byne wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

There is simply no way for the story to continue after the theory unless you break all the lore about indoctrination that has been laid out in the past life of the Mass Effect Universe.

Just because Benezia saw no way out and said she would never be the same again doesn't mean you can't recover from (failed) indoctrination. There's hardly any info on that matter. I just feel this is an argument pulled out hastily to disprove the IT. And the haters are saying we're grasping at straws.

If Shepard beats the latest attempt at indoctrination he should be fine and can proceed to destroy the Reapers for real. Once they are gone, the indoctrination signals are gone as well. All those only partially indoctrinated should be okay, only the ghouls, those whose minds are already gone, will probably die because they can no longer think for themselves.

You break out of Indoctrination by choosing to destroy the reapers, and if you actually played multiplayer or played single player by doing every side quest and exploration stuff and get 4000+ readiness/war assets whatever, you'll actually survive, and wake up in London.

If you choose not to buy any supposed "post ending dlc" that expands on the ending, that is what you get as an ending.

You don't know what happens to anyone because all the cut scenes after choosing destroy are in shepard's head.  The reapers are still whiping everyone out.  But somehow that pesky pop-up keeps telling you you beat the game.

How does this make any sense to you people?

That's exactly what makes sense about IT. Because it dosen't make sense.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth?
-Sherlock Holmes

That is so ****ing awesome. I LOVE it.

Quoting a fictional character to prove a fictional theory.

PERFECT!

Except you're quoting what fictional characters say about indoctrination (itself a fictional idea) to disprove our supposedly fictional idea as well...

I KNEW you were going to say that.

Within the boundries of the discussion we are only using the "facts" according to Biowares Mass Effect Universe. Therfor anything I use as "facts" inside the fictional world are relevant. 

[ApplesauceBandit]

Tsantilas wrote...

Just when I thought the Indoctrination Theory fans would stop with this bull****...

Just stop already. The Indoctrination Theory is just as bad as the current endings. Just let them offer an explanation of the current endings and be done with this.

Nah, I'm fine believing what i want. 

[Jaze55]

I almost forgot!

/popcorn

[byne]

MassEffected555 wrote...

I KNEW you were going to say that.

Within the boundries of the discussion we are only using the "facts" according to Biowares Mass Effect Universe. Therfor anything I use as "facts" inside the fictional world are relevant. 

Fair enough. I still had to at least mention it though, I'm sure you understand.

[GBGriffin]

MassEffected555 wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...


That's exactly what makes sense about IT. Because it dosen't make sense.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth?
-Sherlock Holmes

The thing is, you can't eliminate the possibility that they rushed the ending and just launched it as is. You cannot eliminate that because the same proof for the IT also supports that theory, and both are just speculation.

I disagree

Casey Hudsons startment, Rays statemens and the Twitter post say otherwise.

They plainly say the game is over. 

Pretty clear. 

I agree with you, but the sad fact of the matter is that people are still in denial over it and talking themselves out of accepting those statements as fact. This exact same thing happened with the Prima guide ("PROOF that there are multiple endings!" threads come to mind...despite evidence to the contrary).

In the end, the people who are religiously attached to IT will attempt to explain it away. Personally, I think it's ridiculous to keep on believing they had this planned all along...but, again, some people clearly remain convinced that it is the future of ME3.

[Baelyn]

GBGriffin wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Yes yes that's all good and dandy.  But the IT theory without any post ending DLC is pretty much this:

"You wake up in London. Reapers are still killing everyone.  Roll credits".  And then you get a pop-up stating that you've defeated the reapers and Shepard is a legend.  BUY OUR DLC!

That's even less of an ending than what the current plot hole filled mess is.

I know. I don't support the IT, and honestly, I hope they don't implement it because:

The only way, according to what I've read, for Shep to break free of indoctrination is to pick the Destroy ending. In the other 2 endings, (s)he succumbs to it. 

That's even more limiting than what we have now. It suggests there is only one right answer that can lead to future DLC, while the other two might result in elaborate game overs. What about the people who have actually argued pretty decent defenses over these endings? How is that fair to them?

IMO, expand the current endings by giving more options and choices, a wider from range from very bad to sunshine and bunnies. Don't narrow the field down to "Pick Destroy or else Shep becomes indoctrinated"

They clearly stated before the game was released that there was a way in the game that there is an ending where the Reapers "win." In the current state, if you take the endings at face value, I do not see this option. How is this different than that? You got tricked. You fell to Harbinger's deceit. So now go back and pick destroy and then in the actual ending,  you will be presented in an actual choice that is more than A,B,C like they promised or continue to pick control/synthesis and let the Reapers win. 

Modifié par Baelyn, 21 mars 2012 - 08:35 .

[Silhouett3]

Tsantilas wrote...


This is a better ending than the Indoctrination Theory.

Why? Reasoning, where is it?

[Jaze55]

GBGriffin wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...


That's exactly what makes sense about IT. Because it dosen't make sense.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth?
-Sherlock Holmes

The thing is, you can't eliminate the possibility that they rushed the ending and just launched it as is. You cannot eliminate that because the same proof for the IT also supports that theory, and both are just speculation.

I disagree

Casey Hudsons startment, Rays statemens and the Twitter post say otherwise.

They plainly say the game is over. 

Pretty clear. 

I agree with you, but the sad fact of the matter is that people are still in denial over it and talking themselves out of accepting those statements as fact. This exact same thing happened with the Prima guide ("PROOF that there are multiple endings!" threads come to mind...despite evidence to the contrary).

In the end, the people who are religiously attached to IT will attempt to explain it away. Personally, I think it's ridiculous to keep on believing they had this planned all along...but, again, some people clearly remain convinced that it is the future of ME3.

And you are 100% correct. No point in arguing with them about it. (i keep saying that but then I am drawn back like a moth to a flame)

[GBGriffin]

MassEffected555 wrote...

I KNEW you were going to say that.

Within the boundries of the discussion we are only using the "facts" according to Biowares Mass Effect Universe. Therfor anything I use as "facts" inside the fictional world are relevant. 

The thing is, your facts literally don't prove IT is a better theory than a rushed product that launched as is.


While they may exist and be noticeable, the interpretation of their meaning is hardly conclusive "proof" for IT.

[Ukjack44]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

There is simply no way for the story to continue after the theory unless you break all the lore about indoctrination that has been laid out in the past life of the Mass Effect Universe.

Just because Benezia saw no way out and said she would never be the same again doesn't mean you can't recover from (failed) indoctrination. There's hardly any info on that matter. I just feel this is an argument pulled out hastily to disprove the IT. And the haters are saying we're grasping at straws.

If Shepard beats the latest attempt at indoctrination he should be fine and can proceed to destroy the Reapers for real. Once they are gone, the indoctrination signals are gone as well. All those only partially indoctrinated should be okay, only the ghouls, those whose minds are already gone, will probably die because they can no longer think for themselves.

You break out of Indoctrination by choosing to destroy the reapers, and if you actually played multiplayer or played single player by doing every side quest and exploration stuff and get 4000+ readiness/war assets whatever, you'll actually survive, and wake up in London.

If you choose not to buy any supposed "post ending dlc" that expands on the ending, that is what you get as an ending.

You don't know what happens to anyone because all the cut scenes after choosing destroy are in shepard's head.  The reapers are still whiping everyone out.  But somehow that pesky pop-up keeps telling you you beat the game.

How does this make any sense to you people?

That's exactly what makes sense about IT. Because it dosen't make sense.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth?
-Sherlock Holmes

That is so ****ing awesome. I LOVE it.

Quoting a fictional character to prove a fictional theory.

PERFECT!

Lol stupid is stupid. It's actually the principle of Ocamm's Razor.
Just because he is fictional doesn't remove any truth from the statement afterall it was written by a real person, as you may be shocked to find out.

[Jaze55]

Baelyn wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Yes yes that's all good and dandy.  But the IT theory without any post ending DLC is pretty much this:

"You wake up in London. Reapers are still killing everyone.  Roll credits".  And then you get a pop-up stating that you've defeated the reapers and Shepard is a legend.  BUY OUR DLC!

That's even less of an ending than what the current plot hole filled mess is.

I know. I don't support the IT, and honestly, I hope they don't implement it because:

The only way, according to what I've read, for Shep to break free of indoctrination is to pick the Destroy ending. In the other 2 endings, (s)he succumbs to it. 

That's even more limiting than what we have now. It suggests there is only one right answer that can lead to future DLC, while the other two might result in elaborate game overs. What about the people who have actually argued pretty decent defenses over these endings? How is that fair to them?

IMO, expand the current endings by giving more options and choices, a wider from range from very bad to sunshine and bunnies. Don't narrow the field down to "Pick Destroy or else Shep becomes indoctrinated"

They clearly stated before the game was released that there was a way in the game that there is an ending where the Reapers "win." In the current state, if you take the endings at face value, I do not see this option. How is this different than that? You got tricked. You fell to Harbinger's deceit. So now go back and pick destroy and then in the actual ending,  you will be presented in an actual choice that is more than A,B,C like they promised or continue to pick control/synthesis and let the Reapers win. 

lol I am kidding and I really hope that's not what BW meant but -

Get to the end. Don't pick anything just stand there for a few minutes. Reapers won. 

[byne]

GBGriffin wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I KNEW you were going to say that.

Within the boundries of the discussion we are only using the "facts" according to Biowares Mass Effect Universe. Therfor anything I use as "facts" inside the fictional world are relevant. 

The thing is, your facts literally don't prove IT is a better theory than a rushed product that launched as is.


While they may exist and be noticeable, the interpretation of their meaning is hardly conclusive "proof" for IT.

I believe you got confused.

He doesnt support IT, he was simply talking about things characters in-game say that he believes refutes IT.

[Ghost of a Messiah]

So you choose to blindly and zealously accept what is placed before? Why not go read a blank book or listen intently to every word the president says? No. Instead you are here because you want to believe!

[Jaze55]

Ukjack44 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

There is simply no way for the story to continue after the theory unless you break all the lore about indoctrination that has been laid out in the past life of the Mass Effect Universe.

Just because Benezia saw no way out and said she would never be the same again doesn't mean you can't recover from (failed) indoctrination. There's hardly any info on that matter. I just feel this is an argument pulled out hastily to disprove the IT. And the haters are saying we're grasping at straws.

If Shepard beats the latest attempt at indoctrination he should be fine and can proceed to destroy the Reapers for real. Once they are gone, the indoctrination signals are gone as well. All those only partially indoctrinated should be okay, only the ghouls, those whose minds are already gone, will probably die because they can no longer think for themselves.

You break out of Indoctrination by choosing to destroy the reapers, and if you actually played multiplayer or played single player by doing every side quest and exploration stuff and get 4000+ readiness/war assets whatever, you'll actually survive, and wake up in London.

If you choose not to buy any supposed "post ending dlc" that expands on the ending, that is what you get as an ending.

You don't know what happens to anyone because all the cut scenes after choosing destroy are in shepard's head.  The reapers are still whiping everyone out.  But somehow that pesky pop-up keeps telling you you beat the game.

How does this make any sense to you people?

That's exactly what makes sense about IT. Because it dosen't make sense.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth?
-Sherlock Holmes

That is so ****ing awesome. I LOVE it.

Quoting a fictional character to prove a fictional theory.

PERFECT!

Lol stupid is stupid. It's actually the principle of Ocamm's Razor.
Just because he is fictional doesn't remove any truth from the statement afterall it was written by a real person, as you may be shocked to find out.

And the ending(s)((haha) of ME3 were written by real people so they must also be fact! SHOCKING I know. 

[GBGriffin]

Baelyn wrote...

They clearly stated before the game was released that there was a way in the game that there is an ending where the Reapers "win." In the current state, if you take the endings at face value, I do not see this option. How is this different than that? You got tricked. You fell to Harbinger's deceit. So now go back and pick destroy and then in the actual ending,  you will be presented in an actual choice that is more than A,B,C like they promised or continue to pick control/synthesis and let the Reapers win. 

To be fair, they clearly stated a lot of things we didn't get

What the IT theory suggests is that there is a clearly a wrong choice, and if you pick it, you have to reload and make the right one. How is that not railroading players into an ending, even if that ending has multiple outcomes?

It forces a player to make a "correct" choice to advance the plot. That, to me, goes against "choices mattering" even more. Only one choice here would matter, and that's not what I'm fighting for.

[Tiax Rules All]

pro5 wrote...

 Again, it does not disprove the indoc theory any more than Hudson's earlier response did (i.e. it doesn't). If their plan was to announce it in April on PAX (one month from the first release date, makes sense), they're simply sticking to it and doing their best to keep the player base calm (relatively speaking).

"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April.

Trust that we are doing our damndest, as always, to address your feedback."

- those are the key words in the whole message. 

So if you WANT to believe in the theory, there is no less reason for you to continue than before.

this
nothing is over yet, we just got DLC confirmation, one step at a time, we will find out what is actually IN the DLC soon enouhg

[byne]

GBGriffin wrote...

In the end, the people who are religiously attached to IT will attempt to explain it away. Personally, I think it's ridiculous to keep on believing they had this planned all along...but, again, some people clearly remain convinced that it is the future of ME3.

Believing in IT and believing Bioware actually planned it are two totally different things.

[ArkkAngel007]

GBGriffin wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I KNEW you were going to say that.

Within the boundries of the discussion we are only using the "facts" according to Biowares Mass Effect Universe. Therfor anything I use as "facts" inside the fictional world are relevant. 

The thing is, your facts literally don't prove IT is a better theory than a rushed product that launched as is.


While they may exist and be noticeable, the interpretation of their meaning is hardly conclusive "proof" for IT.

And why does IT have to be true or false?  Why can't it just be speculation and let people have their views?

[Tsantilas]

Silhouett3 wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...


This is a better ending than the Indoctrination Theory.

Why? Reasoning, where is it?

Because with the Indoctrination Theory, your ending is pretty much this:

As Shepard and the few surviving alliance soldiers charge to the conduit, Harbinger shows up and kills everyone and knocks Shepard out.  Shepard proceeds to have a weird lifelike hallucination, and hopefully if you didn't skip any content and played some multiplayer, he wakes up in london.  The end.  Congratulations you have defeated the reapers and Shepard is a legend.  Make sure to purchase all our DLC.

This is what you guys are all hoping for.  I laugh at you.

Modifié par Tsantilas, 21 mars 2012 - 08:40 .

[GBGriffin]

byne wrote...

I believe you got confused.

He doesnt support IT, he was simply talking about things characters in-game say that he believes refutes IT.

I can see that and, honestly, I'm exhausted...partially from staying up late last night refuting the IT

MassEffected555 wrote...



And you are 100% correct. No point in arguing with them about it. (i keep saying that but then I am drawn back like a moth to a flame)

I know the feeling. It's just...sad, but, addicting