564 réponses à ce sujet

[CptData]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Yes, they basically confirmed with their reactions that it was not planned after all.

If they fix the ending, I hope they really jump onto the indoctrination theory.
It would solve most of the problems they had, without even writer-work involved AND it would guarantee great fan-feedback (haven't seen many protest against the theory).

Interesting. From what I got, half of ME3 points towards a broken Shepard that might suffer some effects of indoctrination. And the finale itself feels so surreal and detached from the rest of the game, especially Anderson's and TIM's odd acting, I always imagined the endings ARE hallucinations or displaying Shepard's struggle with indoctrination.

Whatever, it doesn't matter what BW had planned and what not. ME3 gives the idea Shepard got indoctrinated and they should use that opportunity to fix the endings - by adding a "real" ending afterwards. One without decisions, but heavily influenced by the choices you did before. Basically what Casey said at the beginning: multiple endings, no A-B-C decision.

[agathokakological]

Don't care if it was planned or not, so long as it is implemented.

[Tiax Rules All]

byne wrote...

Believing in IT and believing Bioware actually planned it are two totally different things.

indeed

[GBGriffin]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...


And why does IT have to be true or false?  Why can't it just be speculation and let people have their views?

Because people are vehemently arguing that it *must* be true or that it *must* be false to pass the time. It's really a stupid argument to even be having when both sides just want an eding fix, but it helps everyone stay active and pass the time.

[Ukjack44]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ukjack44 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

There is simply no way for the story to continue after the theory unless you break all the lore about indoctrination that has been laid out in the past life of the Mass Effect Universe.

Just because Benezia saw no way out and said she would never be the same again doesn't mean you can't recover from (failed) indoctrination. There's hardly any info on that matter. I just feel this is an argument pulled out hastily to disprove the IT. And the haters are saying we're grasping at straws.

If Shepard beats the latest attempt at indoctrination he should be fine and can proceed to destroy the Reapers for real. Once they are gone, the indoctrination signals are gone as well. All those only partially indoctrinated should be okay, only the ghouls, those whose minds are already gone, will probably die because they can no longer think for themselves.

You break out of Indoctrination by choosing to destroy the reapers, and if you actually played multiplayer or played single player by doing every side quest and exploration stuff and get 4000+ readiness/war assets whatever, you'll actually survive, and wake up in London.

If you choose not to buy any supposed "post ending dlc" that expands on the ending, that is what you get as an ending.

You don't know what happens to anyone because all the cut scenes after choosing destroy are in shepard's head.  The reapers are still whiping everyone out.  But somehow that pesky pop-up keeps telling you you beat the game.

How does this make any sense to you people?

That's exactly what makes sense about IT. Because it dosen't make sense.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth?
-Sherlock Holmes

That is so ****ing awesome. I LOVE it.

Quoting a fictional character to prove a fictional theory.

PERFECT!

Lol stupid is stupid. It's actually the principle of Ocamm's Razor.
Just because he is fictional doesn't remove any truth from the statement afterall it was written by a real person, as you may be shocked to find out.

And the ending(s)((haha) of ME3 were written by real people so they must also be fact! SHOCKING I know. 

Did your mother drop you as a child ? 

[Jaze55]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

So you choose to blindly and zealously accept what is placed before? Why not go read a blank book or listen intently to every word the president says? No. Instead you are here because you want to believe!

Oh I DO believe! I believe you are suffering from delusions!

Look. I know you want to believe the game can't end like that. I also believe this cult like dedication to the theory is extremely unhealthy which is why I am vehemently against it.

I firmly believe that once you are shown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are wrong some of you people are going to jump in front of a bus. That is how strongly you guys defend and believe in the theroy. 

I am dead serious. It is seriously starting to remind me of that cult that commited mass suicide thinking space ships were going to come down and rescue them. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(religious_group) 

You people really remind me of this. I am in no way saying this to be funny, I honestly believe you are becoming like them. It scares me and worries me that a GAME can effect people this much.

If ANYTHING this should tell BW and ALL video game companies they need to seriously understand the impact media and video games can have on people. This is some pretty serious **** now. 

The way you defend and believe in the theory reminds me of a cult mentality. That is extremely un healthy and maybe something you should think about. 

[Jaze55]

Ukjack44 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ukjack44 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

There is simply no way for the story to continue after the theory unless you break all the lore about indoctrination that has been laid out in the past life of the Mass Effect Universe.

Just because Benezia saw no way out and said she would never be the same again doesn't mean you can't recover from (failed) indoctrination. There's hardly any info on that matter. I just feel this is an argument pulled out hastily to disprove the IT. And the haters are saying we're grasping at straws.

If Shepard beats the latest attempt at indoctrination he should be fine and can proceed to destroy the Reapers for real. Once they are gone, the indoctrination signals are gone as well. All those only partially indoctrinated should be okay, only the ghouls, those whose minds are already gone, will probably die because they can no longer think for themselves.

You break out of Indoctrination by choosing to destroy the reapers, and if you actually played multiplayer or played single player by doing every side quest and exploration stuff and get 4000+ readiness/war assets whatever, you'll actually survive, and wake up in London.

If you choose not to buy any supposed "post ending dlc" that expands on the ending, that is what you get as an ending.

You don't know what happens to anyone because all the cut scenes after choosing destroy are in shepard's head.  The reapers are still whiping everyone out.  But somehow that pesky pop-up keeps telling you you beat the game.

How does this make any sense to you people?

That's exactly what makes sense about IT. Because it dosen't make sense.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth?
-Sherlock Holmes

That is so ****ing awesome. I LOVE it.

Quoting a fictional character to prove a fictional theory.

PERFECT!

Lol stupid is stupid. It's actually the principle of Ocamm's Razor.
Just because he is fictional doesn't remove any truth from the statement afterall it was written by a real person, as you may be shocked to find out.

And the ending(s)((haha) of ME3 were written by real people so they must also be fact! SHOCKING I know. 

Did your mother drop you as a child ? 

No but I can tell neither your mother nor your father tought you any common sense.

[Lmaoboat]

byne wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

In the end, the people who are religiously attached to IT will attempt to explain it away. Personally, I think it's ridiculous to keep on believing they had this planned all along...but, again, some people clearly remain convinced that it is the future of ME3.

Believing in IT and believing Bioware actually planned it are two totally different things.

So what, you think they did it subconsciously ? 

[ArkkAngel007]

GBGriffin wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...


And why does IT have to be true or false?  Why can't it just be speculation and let people have their views?

Because people are vehemently arguing that it *must* be true or that it *must* be false to pass the time. It's really a stupid argument to even be having when both sides just want an eding fix, but it helps everyone stay active and pass the time.

I get that.  But the way it's going down...it isn't good.  Maybe it's just people acting out to get an adrenaline rush or for being too excited, or just it chalks up to internet anoniminity, but it really is laughable on both sides, and not in the funny way.

[byne]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

So you choose to blindly and zealously accept what is placed before? Why not go read a blank book or listen intently to every word the president says? No. Instead you are here because you want to believe!

Oh I DO believe! I believe you are suffering from delusions!

Look. I know you want to believe the game can't end like that. I also believe this cult like dedication to the theory is extremely unhealthy which is why I am vehemently against it.

I firmly believe that once you are shown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are wrong some of you people are going to jump in front of a bus. That is how strongly you guys defend and believe in the theroy. 

I am dead serious. It is seriously starting to remind me of that cult that commited mass suicide thinking space ships were going to come down and rescue them. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(religious_group) 

You people really remind me of this. I am in no way saying this to be funny, I honestly believe you are becoming like them. It scares me and worries me that a GAME can effect people this much.

If ANYTHING this should tell BW and ALL video game companies they need to seriously understand the impact media and video games can have on people. This is some pretty serious **** now. 

The way you defend and believe in the theory reminds me of a cult mentality. That is extremely un healthy and maybe something you should think about. 

If you honestly think we're all going to commit suicide you need to calm the hell down.

We enjoy the Mass Effect series.

We felt the endings completely destroyed the Mass Effect series.

We try to find a way to make them not suck so hard.

[Ghost of a Messiah]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

So you choose to blindly and zealously accept what is placed before? Why not go read a blank book or listen intently to every word the president says? No. Instead you are here because you want to believe!

Oh I DO believe! I believe you are suffering from delusions!

Look. I know you want to believe the game can't end like that. I also believe this cult like dedication to the theory is extremely unhealthy which is why I am vehemently against it.

I firmly believe that once you are shown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are wrong some of you people are going to jump in front of a bus. That is how strongly you guys defend and believe in the theroy. 

I am dead serious. It is seriously starting to remind me of that cult that commited mass suicide thinking space ships were going to come down and rescue them. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(religious_group) 

You people really remind me of this. I am in no way saying this to be funny, I honestly believe you are becoming like them. It scares me and worries me that a GAME can effect people this much.

If ANYTHING this should tell BW and ALL video game companies they need to seriously understand the impact media and video games can have on people. This is some pretty serious **** now. 

The way you defend and believe in the theory reminds me of a cult mentality. That is extremely un healthy and maybe something you should think about. 

You do think you are funny... But deep down you want to believe... So downplaying my faith in the good that exists in Bioware this is your defence mechanism so you don't get hurt again.

[Qutayba]

You know, I don't really read Ray's letter as doing anything to in the Indoc Theory one way or the other. They've always said that they had something "really cool" for April, and he simply reiterated that and bought them some time (or tried). IF they had a real ending planned, all they've done is stick to their timeline rather than moving it up.

[Valdimier]

First things frist:

As long as there is no hard evidence against it I still and always will believe that the Indoc theory was planned all along. The reason for this I will post in the main thread for this. If you disagree, don`t bother reading on, because you will disagree in the rest of this post too.

After putting a lot of thoughts in it (which I normally don`t do in much VG´s) I can only come to the conclusion that Bioware planned a really big firework and because of some miscalculation this firework exploded on the ground (and is still exploding) nearly killing the whole crowd.

I think that the Indoctrination was meant to give the players a really big WTF Moment. Think about the "Player would react when they knew what`s coming next" tweet. Just remember your first thoughts during the first time you saw the credits. Would you still think the same way if the game tells you right away that it all was fake? I don`t think so.

But why are they still hiding it you may ask? I give you my explanation but I have to ask you something first.

How would you react when you stand in the line at a cinema to watch "The Empires Strikes Back" for your first time and somebody comes out and yells "Darth Vader is Luke`s father!!" At this point I would beat the bastard to death.

And that is the reason they can not come clean right now.

It would spoil one of the best Mindf*cks in history of gaming to soon, because right now every gaming side will immediately jump on this with a sh*tty "OMG OMG OMG IT WAS ALL FAKE WTF!!" headline.

They are giving us hints over twitter that we should keep our patience because it is to soon to talk about the ending which is just right. The game is just out for 2 weeks.

So why did Ray didn`t come clean in his latest Blog? What should he say??

Spoil the ending?? No way!!
"Sorry guys and girls but we f*cked up??" You never do that as a company and as an artist.
"We thought you would get it??" UUUHHHH, bad idea. It is like calling us stupid.

So he said the only things he could said without spoil anything and giving us what we wanted. Now everybody keeps talking about that they never planned the Indoc thing because Bioware needs to do it right now. That’s right…. RIGHT NOW.

We don`t know what was planned for Singleplayer and what the timeline was. Maybe the Indoc conclusion was planned as the last BIG BANG for Comander Shepard and maybe they realised it, that this won`t work anymore and there is one mayor point why this thing couldn't work from the beginning.

We have the year 2012, where nearly every game (even the really sh*tty ones) gets DLC and mostly for earning cash.

Just my two cents.

[Ukjack44]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ukjack44 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ukjack44 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

There is simply no way for the story to continue after the theory unless you break all the lore about indoctrination that has been laid out in the past life of the Mass Effect Universe.

Just because Benezia saw no way out and said she would never be the same again doesn't mean you can't recover from (failed) indoctrination. There's hardly any info on that matter. I just feel this is an argument pulled out hastily to disprove the IT. And the haters are saying we're grasping at straws.

If Shepard beats the latest attempt at indoctrination he should be fine and can proceed to destroy the Reapers for real. Once they are gone, the indoctrination signals are gone as well. All those only partially indoctrinated should be okay, only the ghouls, those whose minds are already gone, will probably die because they can no longer think for themselves.

You break out of Indoctrination by choosing to destroy the reapers, and if you actually played multiplayer or played single player by doing every side quest and exploration stuff and get 4000+ readiness/war assets whatever, you'll actually survive, and wake up in London.

If you choose not to buy any supposed "post ending dlc" that expands on the ending, that is what you get as an ending.

You don't know what happens to anyone because all the cut scenes after choosing destroy are in shepard's head.  The reapers are still whiping everyone out.  But somehow that pesky pop-up keeps telling you you beat the game.

How does this make any sense to you people?

That's exactly what makes sense about IT. Because it dosen't make sense.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth?
-Sherlock Holmes

That is so ****ing awesome. I LOVE it.

Quoting a fictional character to prove a fictional theory.

PERFECT!

Lol stupid is stupid. It's actually the principle of Ocamm's Razor.
Just because he is fictional doesn't remove any truth from the statement afterall it was written by a real person, as you may be shocked to find out.

And the ending(s)((haha) of ME3 were written by real people so they must also be fact! SHOCKING I know. 

Did your mother drop you as a child ? 

No but I can tell neither your mother nor your father tought you any common sense.

I see. So we arent using logic in our arguments now. Glad to know, thanks.

[Jaze55]

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

So you choose to blindly and zealously accept what is placed before? Why not go read a blank book or listen intently to every word the president says? No. Instead you are here because you want to believe!

Oh I DO believe! I believe you are suffering from delusions!

Look. I know you want to believe the game can't end like that. I also believe this cult like dedication to the theory is extremely unhealthy which is why I am vehemently against it.

I firmly believe that once you are shown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are wrong some of you people are going to jump in front of a bus. That is how strongly you guys defend and believe in the theroy. 

I am dead serious. It is seriously starting to remind me of that cult that commited mass suicide thinking space ships were going to come down and rescue them. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(religious_group) 

You people really remind me of this. I am in no way saying this to be funny, I honestly believe you are becoming like them. It scares me and worries me that a GAME can effect people this much.

If ANYTHING this should tell BW and ALL video game companies they need to seriously understand the impact media and video games can have on people. This is some pretty serious **** now. 

The way you defend and believe in the theory reminds me of a cult mentality. That is extremely un healthy and maybe something you should think about. 

You do think you are funny... But deep down you want to believe... So downplaying my faith in the good that exists in Bioware this is your defence mechanism so you don't get hurt again.

Now I think you are pulling my leg. If you are, then you got me good.

[Rafe34]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

Funny you should say that, i was super happy with my option. Indoc on the other hand was a neat way for people who chose the renegade ending to convince themselves it was paragon. Guess that is down the tube. The fact that the ending as is was meant to be the ending, that there was to be no 'reveal' ending down the line proves that indoc was never considered by the devs. Even now, indocs cannot accept it.

darkiddd wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

Now indoc is most likely wrong that means the ending was even worse than it looked at first, because they completely accidentally slipped in a dozen clues it was fake in an otherwise well written and designed game.

And DESTRAUDO, does it make you feel like a big man to randomly insult strangers on the internet?

Who did i insult? I am just glad that the absolute joke that was indoctrination theroy is now laid to rest. Indoc fanatics would see zero reason on the subject what so ever and denied the massive vault of information that proved they were wrong, and claimed everyone else failed to connect the dots. They claimed everyone who chose control or synth was indoctrinated. They get to eat crow. 

With what you have written it's so obvious you chose synthesis or control man  scared you might have made the bad choice?

And this doesn't change anything. It doesn't support post indoctrination ending nor it dismantles it. 

Bioware might be lying and they already planned a post indoctrination ending.
Or they aren't lying and still they will go for the indoctrination theory the fans have come up with (highly unlikely because evidence proves Bioware had already thought about this and the fans just connected the dots)
Or they will go for other ending

What's important here is the confirmation that they will change the ending. How much and in what form is remained to be seen.

I, for one, don't care what the devs think. The Indoc Theory, created by the fans in a week, is a better ending that the devs gave us with two years of development. And that is frikkin sad.

Even if its not what BW intended, that has no bearing on how logical and cohesive an ending it is, compared to the crap that BW gave us.

[Phearmonger]

Umm, where in Ray's response does he even mention Indoc theory. I don't see it or anything that possibly says that sequence wasn't intended to be Shepard fighting indoctrination. Of course, I might have missed something. Maybe someone can highlight the text that says, "...our team denies that the ending sequence had anything to do with indoctrination." I looked for it as hard as I could, honest.

[CptData]

Qutayba wrote...

You know, I don't really read Ray's letter as doing anything to in the Indoc Theory one way or the other. They've always said that they had something "really cool" for April, and he simply reiterated that and bought them some time (or tried). IF they had a real ending planned, all they've done is stick to their timeline rather than moving it up.

I hope that "really cool" stuff isn't just the Omega DLC. You know ... it's going to happen. We expect this one will hit the stores this year, maybe in summer, if not earlier.

I doubt BW will release some info about "new endings planned". I doubt it.

[Ukjack44]

I just dont get why people actually don't want to believe in the indoctrination theory, if you don't believe it then good for you just stop trying to disprove it.

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Valdimier wrote...

First things frist:

As long as there is no hard evidence against it I still and always will believe that the Indoc theory was planned all along. The reason for this I will post in the main thread for this. If you disagree, don`t bother reading on, because you will disagree in the rest of this post too.

After putting a lot of thoughts in it (which I normally don`t do in much VG´s) I can only come to the conclusion that Bioware planned a really big firework and because of some miscalculation this firework exploded on the ground (and is still exploding) nearly killing the whole crowd.

I think that the Indoctrination was meant to give the players a really big WTF Moment. Think about the "Player would react when they knew what`s coming next" tweet. Just remember your first thoughts during the first time you saw the credits. Would you still think the same way if the game tells you right away that it all was fake? I don`t think so.

But why are they still hiding it you may ask? I give you my explanation but I have to ask you something first.

How would you react when you stand in the line at a cinema to watch "The Empires Strikes Back" for your first time and somebody comes out and yells "Darth Vader is Luke`s father!!" At this point I would beat the bastard to death.

And that is the reason they can not come clean right now.

It would spoil one of the best Mindf*cks in history of gaming to soon, because right now every gaming side will immediately jump on this with a sh*tty "OMG OMG OMG IT WAS ALL FAKE WTF!!" headline.

They are giving us hints over twitter that we should keep our patience because it is to soon to talk about the ending which is just right. The game is just out for 2 weeks.

So why did Ray didn`t come clean in his latest Blog? What should he say??

Spoil the ending?? No way!!
"Sorry guys and girls but we f*cked up??" You never do that as a company and as an artist.
"We thought you would get it??" UUUHHHH, bad idea. It is like calling us stupid.

So he said the only things he could said without spoil anything and giving us what we wanted. Now everybody keeps talking about that they never planned the Indoc thing because Bioware needs to do it right now. That’s right…. RIGHT NOW.

We don`t know what was planned for Singleplayer and what the timeline was. Maybe the Indoc conclusion was planned as the last BIG BANG for Comander Shepard and maybe they realised it, that this won`t work anymore and there is one mayor point why this thing couldn't work from the beginning.

We have the year 2012, where nearly every game (even the really sh*tty ones) gets DLC and mostly for earning cash.

Just my two cents.

This. Without a doubt. But there will always be trolls trying only to weakin our resolve. I for one will not allow my faith to shake for their amusement.

[Rafe34]

byne wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Ghost of a Messiah wrote...

So you choose to blindly and zealously accept what is placed before? Why not go read a blank book or listen intently to every word the president says? No. Instead you are here because you want to believe!

Oh I DO believe! I believe you are suffering from delusions!

Look. I know you want to believe the game can't end like that. I also believe this cult like dedication to the theory is extremely unhealthy which is why I am vehemently against it.

I firmly believe that once you are shown, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are wrong some of you people are going to jump in front of a bus. That is how strongly you guys defend and believe in the theroy. 

I am dead serious. It is seriously starting to remind me of that cult that commited mass suicide thinking space ships were going to come down and rescue them. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(religious_group) 

You people really remind me of this. I am in no way saying this to be funny, I honestly believe you are becoming like them. It scares me and worries me that a GAME can effect people this much.

If ANYTHING this should tell BW and ALL video game companies they need to seriously understand the impact media and video games can have on people. This is some pretty serious **** now. 

The way you defend and believe in the theory reminds me of a cult mentality. That is extremely un healthy and maybe something you should think about. 

If you honestly think we're all going to commit suicide you need to calm the hell down.

We enjoy the Mass Effect series.

We felt the endings completely destroyed the Mass Effect series.

We try to find a way to make them not suck so hard.

This. That's all it is.

MassEffected and others like them are just indulging in a bit of schaudenfreude. (Delighting in the suffering of others.) They have no arguments against the actual theory because there are no coherent arguments against it. So what if its not what the devs intended? It makes BW just that much worse, that the fans came up with a better ending in one week than they did in two years.

[Lmaoboat]

If Indoctrination Theory turns out to be true, them the Illuminati needs to start taking tips from Bioware, because they ain't got **** on them when it comes to pulling off massive conspiracies involving hundreds of people without anyone slipping.

[Tiax Rules All]

I see MassEffected is still at it, making a fool of himself in threads, getting called names by fellow BSN'ers that think you are a few eggs short of a dozen.

Doesn't some of it sink in? when 10 threads tell you "what you say doesn't make sense" or "were you dropped as a child" maybe you should re-evealuate your thoughts.

Its a little more then just simple dissagreeing with you.

[Ghost of a Messiah]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

I see MassEffected is still at it, making a fool of himself in threads, getting called names by fellow BSN'ers that think you are a few eggs short of a dozen.

Doesn't some of it sink in? when 10 threads tell you "what you say doesn't make sense" or "were you dropped as a child" maybe you should re-evealuate your thoughts.

Its a little more then just simple dissagreeing with you.

I think masseffected really just wants an argument... You know... Flex his internet muscles...

[Tiax Rules All]

Ukjack44 wrote...

I just dont get why people actually don't want to believe in the indoctrination theory, if you don't believe it then good for you just stop trying to disprove it.

Pride mostly.

"Indoc theory means I was fooled, if i was fooled, I am wrong. I can't be wrong so i must fight it. Can't win by proving myself so yell loudly and discredit the other side, only way"

pretty much something like this.