564 réponses à ce sujet

[CavScout]

Capeo wrote...

CavScout wrote...
It's Indoctrination Theory 101: Anything you see in the game that doesn't directly support Indoctrination Theory is fake, a dream, a trick, not real, a mistake, a game-play mechanic, bad writing and whatever else it needs to be to not completely and utterly disprove Indoctrination Theory.

Indoctrination Theory is constructed to be non falsifiable... which is utterly convenient for the proponents of it.

As are all baseless conspiracy theories.  That's why they don't die.  The goalposts keep getting moved.  Whatever doesn't fit is intentionally there to fool people.  It's idiotic.

Yes, it's why Turthers, Birthers, UFOist and JFKist are around.

[dreman9999]

Exolyps wrote...

Okay, so the boy was real. Now the Theory is false? It's true even if the boy is real.

Nothing dispoves the theory..The boy is fake.

[CavScout]

Exolyps wrote...

Okay, so the boy was real. Now the Theory is false? It's true even if the boy is real.

It will be true to you no matter how many holes are punched into it.

[Vhalkyrie]

Ray's letter seems to say the current ending is the one they intended. It doesn't mean they can't run with the idea.

[dreman9999]

CavScout wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

OMG.  Are you dense?  That IS retconning the ending.  It invalidates the other two choices millions of people have made.  You IT people are so blind you can't see that.  It invalidates the ENTIRE ending.  TIM.  Anderson.  Everything.

No, It's not. Based on the theory, Shep is still on earth in rubble dreaming this and then wakes up when be over comes indoctrination or as a reaper sleeper agent. It retcons nothing.

It retcons the current non-Indoctrination ending.

No it dos not. If he resist, he's a free mind that can stop the reapers. If he does not, he a sleeper agent working for the reapers...It retcons nothing.

[ijobes1]

So the end of the Mass Effect story is the same ending as Dallas,

[dreman9999]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Ray's letter seems to say the current ending is the one they intended. It doesn't mean they can't run with the idea.

No, it just says that he understand people are upset with what they got.

[savionen]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Ray's letter seems to say the current ending is the one they intended. It doesn't mean they can't run with the idea.

Basically. I don't know why so many people have to come out and be like "HAHAHA ITS FALSE."

Too many assumptions are made, they weren't even clear on their plans for the ending, either. They basically said they were looking into it and doing something or another. They could be adding Starkid's dialogue back in, or they could be planning a 30 dollar expansion they're announcing in April.

[CavScout]

dreman9999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

It's Indoctrination Theory 101: Anything you see in the game that doesn't directly support Indoctrination Theory is fake, a dream, a trick, not real, a mistake, a game-play mechanic, bad writing and whatever else it needs to be to not completely and utterly disprove Indoctrination Theory.

Indoctrination Theory is constructed to be non falsifiable... which is utterly convenient for the proponents of it.

If you think that you don't understand the theaory. Dreams don't make sence....Jokerpart of the dream makes no sense. If it's a dreamthen it understandible that it makes no sense. Hech, most of everything after Shep is shot down from harbinger makes no sense.

You're right in that I don't understand why people cling to the theory but you are wrong in thinking I don't understand the theory.

What dream are you talking about?

Also, nothing anyone has said disproven the theory.

Because you'll just dismiss it as part of the indoctrination.

[CavScout]

dreman9999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

OMG.  Are you dense?  That IS retconning the ending.  It invalidates the other two choices millions of people have made.  You IT people are so blind you can't see that.  It invalidates the ENTIRE ending.  TIM.  Anderson.  Everything.

No, It's not. Based on the theory, Shep is still on earth in rubble dreaming this and then wakes up when be over comes indoctrination or as a reaper sleeper agent. It retcons nothing.

It retcons the current non-Indoctrination ending.

No it dos not. If he resist, he's a free mind that can stop the reapers. If he does not, he a sleeper agent working for the reapers...It retcons nothing.

You're locked into a circular argument fallacy.

[DESTRAUDO]

It is because Indocs have declared that those who do not believe are not true fans, and is based around the idea of telling everyone who selected the control and synth endings that they were duped, and tricked by bioware into not selecting the one true ending which sees you commit genocide and should be considered the best ending.  

savionen wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Ray's letter seems to say the current ending is the one they intended. It doesn't mean they can't run with the idea.

Basically. I don't know why so many people have to come out and be like "HAHAHA ITS FALSE."

Too many assumptions are made, they weren't even clear on their plans for the ending, either. They basically said they were looking into it and doing something or another. They could be adding Starkid's dialogue back in, or they could be planning a 30 dollar expansion they're announcing in April.

[Myskal1981]

dreman9999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

OMG.  Are you dense?  That IS retconning the ending.  It invalidates the other two choices millions of people have made.  You IT people are so blind you can't see that.  It invalidates the ENTIRE ending.  TIM.  Anderson.  Everything.

No, It's not. Based on the theory, Shep is still on earth in rubble dreaming this and then wakes up when be over comes indoctrination or as a reaper sleeper agent. It retcons nothing.

It retcons the current non-Indoctrination ending.

No it dos not. If he resist, he's a free mind that can stop the reapers. If he does not, he a sleeper agent working for the reapers...It retcons nothing.

Quick question: so controlling the Reapers or synthesis was never an option, they are just a ruse.
So everyone believing these endings are good (albeit they need more explanation) are basically screwed?
I mean, what happens after Shepard wakes up? Will he still be able to choose to end the Reaper threat by controlling or merging with them?

[Vromrig]

No reason to let up on Indoctrination Theory. Possible not considered by Casey Hudson, or clever ploy. Either likely possible. Clues left by writers, development, too spot on to suggest they are not intentionally placed.

Final ending reeks of Producer interference, not involvement or planning of writers. Continue to hold the line.

[Myskal1981]

Vromrig wrote...

No reason to let up on Indoctrination Theory. Possible not considered by Casey Hudson, or clever ploy. Either likely possible. Clues left by writers, development, too spot on to suggest they are not intentionally placed.

Final ending reeks of Producer interference, not involvement or planning of writers. Continue to hold the line.

nice Mordin impression

[RavenEyry]

DESTRAUDO wrote...


It is because Indocs have declared that those who do not believe are not true fans, and is based around the idea of telling everyone who selected the control and synth endings that they were duped, and tricked by bioware into not selecting the one true ending which sees you commit genocide and should be considered the best ending.  

Please don't make such generalisations. There are jerks and morons on both sides of the argument. There are also polite and intelligent people on both sides of the argument.

[Thornquist]

The way you people debate, reminds me of the 9/11-Truth people.

And yes, I enjoy watching this theory burn, and watching its supporters paint themselves an exit. The way some of them declared that we werent "true fans", was insulting. And now I get to watch them weep.

All I need is a beer.

[DESTRAUDO]

Strokes chin. 

And so the fantasy evolves from being the true ending to being the ending the team had wanted but were prevented from having. I swear, indocs is like watching the birth of a religion. 

Vromrig wrote...

No reason to let up on Indoctrination Theory. Possible not considered by Casey Hudson, or clever ploy. Either likely possible. Clues left by writers, development, too spot on to suggest they are not intentionally placed.

Final ending reeks of Producer interference, not involvement or planning of writers. Continue to hold the line.

[Shayuri]

I've never subscribed to the whole "there's only one way to survive" notion of indoctrination theory.

The cutscene of Shepard breathing is a cookie crumb, a tool to spark debate and point people towards questioning their assumptions. I very much doubt that the actual end will be so open and shut.

I also think there's a lot of confusion stemming from the way things are termed. "Indoctrination Theory" is not a theory. It's not really subject to proof or disproof short of Bioware coming out with a direct statement of intent. It is at BEST a hypothesis, but even that is shaky. I'd call it more a "speculation based on circumstantial evidence." That's not to denigrate it though. Speculations based on circumstantial evidence are all ANYONE has right now.

[Capeo]

Baelyn wrote...

Capeo wrote...

No it is not!  Wow, you folks are something else.  They are not going to retcon a game that everyone has played and has been reviewed.  Can you not read?  He is defending the endings as is over and over again.  The most we're going to get is a motion comic or maybe epilogues.

Do you have some deep insecurities rooted in other people's opiniong or something?

I have seen you post continuously for days (quite rude in most posts), attacking anyone that even hints that Indoctrination Theory might hold weight. Just drop it, or learn to discuss without being demeaning in every one of your posts.

There are a good number of people that see all the pieces line up for IT. And for good reason, because it makes ALOT of sense, fits the plot inconsistencies, and seems in line with Bioware's MO. Let people think what they want. It in no way affects you.

No.  It makes no sense and is not consistent with the game or BW's MO because BW's MO is about guilt.  That's what the whole game is about as is made clear by the script and the endless conversations in the game.

And I'll drop nothing, thanks.  People can believe what they want but when they claim it fits the "evidence" and it's clearly BW meant when that flies in the face of all objective evidence such the script, the app an the comments from BW then I'm going to call people on it.  Not to mention the whole IT crowd thinks the entire end of the game should be invalidated because of their "theory" which is utterly narcisistic.

[Capeo]

Thornquist wrote...

The way you people debate, reminds me of the 9/11-Truth people.

And yes, I enjoy watching this theory burn, and watching its supporters paint themselves an exit. The way some of them declared that we werent "true fans", was insulting. And now I get to watch them weep.

All I need is a beer.

Here, here.  

[Vromrig]

Strokes chin.

And so the fantasy evolves from being the true ending to being the ending the team had wanted but were prevented from having. I swear, indocs is like watching the birth of a religion.

Incorrect. Theory revolves around experience, knowledge, variables that can be confirmed, observed, repeated. Nothing concluded without corroborative data

[dreman9999]

Myskal1981 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

OMG.  Are you dense?  That IS retconning the ending.  It invalidates the other two choices millions of people have made.  You IT people are so blind you can't see that.  It invalidates the ENTIRE ending.  TIM.  Anderson.  Everything.

No, It's not. Based on the theory, Shep is still on earth in rubble dreaming this and then wakes up when be over comes indoctrination or as a reaper sleeper agent. It retcons nothing.

It retcons the current non-Indoctrination ending.

No it dos not. If he resist, he's a free mind that can stop the reapers. If he does not, he a sleeper agent working for the reapers...It retcons nothing.

Quick question: so controlling the Reapers or synthesis was never an option, they are just a ruse.
So everyone believing these endings are good (albeit they need more explanation) are basically screwed?
I mean, what happens after Shepard wakes up? Will he still be able to choose to end the Reaper threat by controlling or merging with them?

That's a story for another time.

Think of it this way...The ending part is a battle of wills. The reaper, with you having high ems, want to change you mind.
What happens after is story for only BW to tell.
Also, takea notice of the meaning of crucible.....

1. A vessel made of a refractory substance such as graphite or porcelain, used for melting and calcining materials at high temperatures.2. A severe test, as of patience or belief; a trial. See Synonyms at trial.3. A place, time, or situation characterized by the confluence of powerful intellectual, social, economic, or political forces

[Jaze55]

Vromrig wrote...

Strokes chin.

And so the fantasy evolves from being the true ending to being the ending the team had wanted but were prevented from having. I swear, indocs is like watching the birth of a religion.

Incorrect. Theory revolves around experience, knowledge, variables that can be confirmed, observed, repeated. Nothing concluded without corroborative data

\\
Hey FAKE FAN

If you were a real fan of the game you would know the indoc theory is impossible because simply put you can not beat indoc. Once it happens you are screwed

Especially if it happens that fast, like you say it did to Shep.

Indoctrination that would happen that fast to bring on a full blown hallucination would have turned Shep's brain to oatmeal.

Good job, we pick up with Shep the husk. There is NO other possibility the games and books state what I wrote as fact. 

Fans? You are not fans if you don't know anything about the game which you obviously don't if you support this stupid theory.

Also - BW shot it down. Again. So really, stop already. 

[Capeo]

dreman9999 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

OMG.  Are you dense?  That IS retconning the ending.  It invalidates the other two choices millions of people have made.  You IT people are so blind you can't see that.  It invalidates the ENTIRE ending.  TIM.  Anderson.  Everything.

No, It's not. Based on the theory, Shep is still on earth in rubble dreaming this and then wakes up when be over comes indoctrination or as a reaper sleeper agent. It retcons nothing.

It retcons the current non-Indoctrination ending.

No it dos not. If he resist, he's a free mind that can stop the reapers. If he does not, he a sleeper agent working for the reapers...It retcons nothing.

Okay, you've answered my dense question.  Let me try again.  It retcons the ending because the only way to "finish" the game would be to choose destroy which invalidates the other two options.  How can you be stumbling over this.  It's quite simple. 

[Ukjack44]

uninhibitedandunrepentant.tumblr.com/post/19344938387/mind-holy-**** 

I maintain that this is still the only way they can dig themselves out of a hole if it wasnt planned.