336 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

Stygian1 wrote...

 First off, if you haven't read this: http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/   I'd recommend that you do.

So when I first saw that BioWare had officially responded to its fans, I thought "wow maybe you guys really are listening, maybe you actually want to fix this for the fans. Maybe you actually see that your ending was truely ill-planned and overall inept at bringing a close to such a gripping story." 

Then.... well then I read the response. I was disapointed to say the least. 

First, I'll point out the positives that I took from this response:

   1. BioWare, you are listening enough to be AWARE that we hate the ending. Which, to be honest, I think a deaf man in a coma would be aware of by this point.

    2. BioWare, you are willing to tie yourself to an official statement, and in that statement you make it clear that not only will you address the flaws of the ending, but you are willing to work on it.

Now, here is what I found infuriating about this response: 

    1. BioWare seems to think, or at least say, that what we are all angry about is that the ending didn't provide enough closure. Heh. 

     "Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey."

  We don't just want closure! I mean to say the least, yeah most of us do want closure. But, one of our biggest complaints is that your ending is riddled with plot holes, ill-placed themes, deus ex machina cliche scenarios and above all that the ending takes away all choice from the players and turns their hero into a mindless drone and slave to the very beings he has fought so hard against. We don't want closure to an ending like this, we want closure to an ending we love, to an ending that after we finish we can put down the control and do a fist pump in the air (kinda like in ME1&2). We want a range of outcomes, good and bad, and above all we want our choices to matter--which in this current ending they are basically worth a morning constitutional... 

    2. BioWare seems to think that most people love this game. 

    "However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better."

     Yeah.... have you checked ANY player or consumer ratings? I mean really how more obvious could it be that the majority of people purchasing you game rate it one star! (Look on amazon fyi, or any other website that sells ME3 and you shall see my point). I will say this though, BioWare, you did a great, no a fantastic job on this game. You made me fall into this awesome universe even more. The gameplay was great, the story was superb. I couldn't set down the controler. But, that ending, the ending alone (5 minutes) is what is turning your game from a 5 star GOTY to a 1 star piece of poo. It literally sucks the life out of the entire franchise. 

I'm losing faith in your capability to address these issues BioWAre. I am aware I am only one person, but I am also aware that I have been a faithful customer for many years. I have poured every ounce of myself into this series--but I can't and won't follow you anymore if you don't respond to the outcry of not "some of our loyal fans" but almost ALL of your fans.

Listen BioWare, just see that we don't want to fight you. We just want you to see this from our perspective. What you created in the last five minutes of ME3 was a shiver of a brush stroke that ruined a well concieved portrait. That is not art, that is a mistake, a mistake that can be righted. We don't just want closure, we want an ending that is as beautiful and artistic as the rest of this magnificent series.

/end rant. 

(first thread ever, sorry if I got a little impassioned.) 

Please, BioWare, do not abandon us! I am sorry... But I'm so sad about ME3 current endings... You can still fix it. Please, make perfect ending DLC for ME3.

[Gill Kaiser]

Scandigeek wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

I couldn't agree more with your first point. What worried me about Dr. Muzyka and Casey Hudson's responses is that they are fixated on the closure aspect. While it's true that we do want closure, that is most certainly not the only, or even the main, concern. The endings just don't work, thematically or as part of a game series whose strength was player choice. They're Gainax Endings, pure and simple.

Your second point I disagree with. I think that overall Mass Effect 3 is a phenomenal game, and I enjoyed practically every minute of it up until Harbinger's beam hit my Shepard. That the horrible ending has soured the experience for me is an understatement, but it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of ME3 was top-notch.

And whould go far as to say I was cool even beyound that with the death of Anderson and the Illusive Man.  What I wans't cool with was the star child bs.  That's were I think it really went of the rails. 

For me it gets a little more iffy there. I did enjoy the Illusive Man's conversation, and Anderson's death scene was touching, but the disjointed way the story got them all there in that room kind of makes the whole thing difficult to stomach. I definitely don't think that that part should be removed, though. It was a fitting end to TIM and Anderson's death scene was heartbreaking in a good way.

If the game had ended with Shepard activating the Crucible from that control panel, then sitting next to Anderson's dead body and watching while the Crucible deactivated the Reapers' shields and the Victory Fleet engaged them in combat, I would have been happy! Have the degree of success of the fleet depend on your EMS! If you have low EMS, the fleet loses and the Reapers destroy the Citadel with Shepard on board! If your EMS is high, the fleet wins and Shepard survives and is reunited with his friends! Was that so difficult?

[JayTheWolf]

Wholehearted agree. Well written. I hope they see this and "take some constructive criticism" from it.

[terdferguson123]

Please, BioWare, do not abandon us! I am sorry... But I'm so sad about ME3 current endings... You can still fix it. Please, make perfect ending DLC for ME3.

The fact that you think an ending can be perfect shows your lack of understanding of the situation.

[Neural73]

You, Bioware, need to look at this whole terribly embarrassing situation, through the viewpoint of historic context, it is essential to realize that the bad imprint that has already been left on the timeline of a company as important as Bioware in the gaming industry, quality wise, will not wash away with basic and not-at-all-humble face saving rhetoric. On the contrary, PR tactics of this level, are one of the worst ideas possible, because while they alienate one of the most devoted and faithful fan bases any company could wish for, the shockwaves that ressonate in the mainstream media circles out of the proxy influence of the gaming industry major players, due to those "illusive" tactics, will reinforce the already firmly established perception that there is no independent and unbiased assessment of the quality of the products you and your pairs deliver.

The fact is, the endings of Mass Effect 3, as they are right now, consist of nothing more than bad writing, probably a factor of timing/resources constraints, being those, the true threats to any genuine kind of artistic integrity. Believe me and the overwhelming majority of us, discontent and saddened fans and admirers of the effort and passion you Bioware have always put into your games: we do not demand to impose ourselves as authors, creators of anything, we are simply pledging to commit yourselves to the true artistic integrity a masterpiece the caliber of Mass Effect trilogy deserves, and you all know, in the deep of your hearts, that this is the only noble way out of this. Do not let some time constrained and rushed commercial strategy hopelessly stain the mark of creativity, ingenuity and inspiration that has made the Mass Effect Universe a reference in modern science fiction and storytelling. Don't listen to us before listening to the passion you devoted to this saga. That would hopefully suffice to save the integrity of Mass Effect.

Modifié par Neural73, 21 mars 2012 - 09:18 .

[steev02]

HOLD THE LINE

Today's blogpost is completely unsatisfying

1. They still treat us as a vocal minority
2. They still refer to the positive professional reviews as proof that the game is awesome and to imply that the above mentioned 'vocal minority' is wrong
3. The same 'vocal minority' mostly thinks this game is awesome except for the last 10 minutes
4. They want to "provide clarity" to the ending and give more "closure", implying the 'vocal minority' are a bunch of idiots who don't get the 'artistic' ending
5. The end of the blog tries to slander the retake movement in a subtle way by referring to the "destructive" part of the movement

Don't throw us a bone Bioware, we're not some stupid dog.

We're soldiers
and we're
HOLDING THE LINE

[Daedalus1773]

TheBandit554 wrote...

Daedalus1773 wrote...

TheBandit554 wrote...

Wow really? This is a MASSIVE step. They came right out and TOLD us they are changing the endings.

Reading comprehension fail.

He said they were working on content to "clarify" the endings. This word is not synonymous with "changing."

Well obviosly you did not read the statement because he clearly says "We understand your concerns and will address them in a fair and timely matter"

There is no clarification, they are going to provide DLC that will change (address) the issue of the ending. So no, fail back to you.

So. You quote him directly where he uses the exact phrase, "fair and timely manner." And you put this forward (again) as proof positive that they have stated they will in fact change the ending, when it neither directly or implicitly states any such thing. And then claim I don't know how to read.  Interesting.

All you are doing is reading what you want to read, not what he said.  Perhaps they will give us a changed ending. Perhaps they won't. Based on the statement you are quoting, there is no way to know for sure either way.  All they have promised is to release more content to clarify (and, if we're lucky, add on to) the ending.

Modifié par Daedalus1773, 21 mars 2012 - 09:20 .

[terdferguson123]

steev02 wrote...

HOLD THE LINE

Today's blogpost is completely unsatisfying

1. They still treat us as a vocal minority
2. They still refer to the positive professional reviews as proof that the game is awesome and to imply that the above mentioned 'vocal minority' is wrong
3. The same 'vocal minority' mostly thinks this game is awesome except for the last 10 minutes
4. They want to "provide clarity" to the ending and give more "closure", implying the 'vocal minority' are a bunch of idiots who don't get the 'artistic' ending
5. The end of the blog tries to slander the retake movement in a subtle way by referring to the "destructive" part of the movement

Don't throw us a bone Bioware, we're not some stupid dog.

We're soldiers
and we're
HOLDING THE LINE

Really? he blatantly called you idiots? I guess I read a different blog post. Showing your colors retake movement, showing your colors.

[Reptilian Rob]

Holding that ****ing line until I die!

"If we don't make it alive, it's a hell of a good day to die!"

[Keldon Northwind]

@OP: Well said.

We don't need a DLC that "explains" stuff. We need a DLC that fixes the atrocity that is the ending.

[Daedalus1773]

terdferguson123 wrote...

steev02 wrote...

HOLD THE LINE

Today's blogpost is completely unsatisfying

1. They still treat us as a vocal minority
2. They still refer to the positive professional reviews as proof that the game is awesome and to imply that the above mentioned 'vocal minority' is wrong
3. The same 'vocal minority' mostly thinks this game is awesome except for the last 10 minutes
4. They want to "provide clarity" to the ending and give more "closure", implying the 'vocal minority' are a bunch of idiots who don't get the 'artistic' ending
5. The end of the blog tries to slander the retake movement in a subtle way by referring to the "destructive" part of the movement

Don't throw us a bone Bioware, we're not some stupid dog.

We're soldiers
and we're
HOLDING THE LINE

Really? he blatantly called you idiots? I guess I read a different blog post. Showing your colors retake movement, showing your colors.

The poster you are quoting used the word "implied", which is not "blatant" at all. I'd say you're showing your own colors here a bit.  The blog post today did little more than "imply" a lot of things.

[Stygian1]

terdferguson123 wrote...

Please, BioWare, do not abandon us! I am sorry... But I'm so sad about ME3 current endings... You can still fix it. Please, make perfect ending DLC for ME3.

The fact that you think an ending can be perfect shows your lack of understanding of the situation.

The phrase perfect doesn't need to mean it really was perfect, if he loves an ending it is "perfect" to him. You are being dogmatic, you are insulting us for no reason and provide nothing to this disscucion besides harrassment.

If you don't agree with us that's fine, but don't just resort to name calling... it isn't pretty to watch. 

[KingKhan03]

In the end its another generic statement...hold the line.

[steev02]

terdferguson123 wrote...

steev02 wrote...

HOLD THE LINE

Today's blogpost is completely unsatisfying

1. They still treat us as a vocal minority
2. They still refer to the positive professional reviews as proof that the game is awesome and to imply that the above mentioned 'vocal minority' is wrong
3. The same 'vocal minority' mostly thinks this game is awesome except for the last 10 minutes
4. They want to "provide clarity" to the ending and give more "closure", implying the 'vocal minority' are a bunch of idiots who don't get the 'artistic' ending
5. The end of the blog tries to slander the retake movement in a subtle way by referring to the "destructive" part of the movement

Don't throw us a bone Bioware, we're not some stupid dog.

We're soldiers
and we're
HOLDING THE LINE

Really? he blatantly called you idiots? I guess I read a different blog post. Showing your colors retake movement, showing your colors.

And I guess your read another post.
I said "implying we're idiots", not "blatantly" calling us idiots.

[Stygian1]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Holding that ****ing line until I die!

"If we don't make it alive, it's a hell of a good day to die!"

Honor to be holding the line with you guys  

[Daedalus1773]

Stygian1 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Holding that ****ing line until I die!

"If we don't make it alive, it's a hell of a good day to die!"

Honor to be holding the line with you guys  

[terdferguson123]

steev02 wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

steev02 wrote...

HOLD THE LINE

Today's blogpost is completely unsatisfying

1. They still treat us as a vocal minority
2. They still refer to the positive professional reviews as proof that the game is awesome and to imply that the above mentioned 'vocal minority' is wrong
3. The same 'vocal minority' mostly thinks this game is awesome except for the last 10 minutes
4. They want to "provide clarity" to the ending and give more "closure", implying the 'vocal minority' are a bunch of idiots who don't get the 'artistic' ending
5. The end of the blog tries to slander the retake movement in a subtle way by referring to the "destructive" part of the movement

Don't throw us a bone Bioware, we're not some stupid dog.

We're soldiers
and we're
HOLDING THE LINE

Really? he blatantly called you idiots? I guess I read a different blog post. Showing your colors retake movement, showing your colors.

And I guess your read another post.
I said "implying we're idiots", not "blatantly" calling us idiots.

Ok. He implied you were idiots? I guess I read a different blog post. Please explain to me how "gamers want clarity" is implying your idiots. That's exactly what you are asking for, you want the endings to be clarified. Jesus you people will take anything the wrong way just to try and prove your point.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 21 mars 2012 - 09:32 .

[KingKhan03]

terdferguson123 wrote...

steev02 wrote...

HOLD THE LINE

Today's blogpost is completely unsatisfying

1. They still treat us as a vocal minority
2. They still refer to the positive professional reviews as proof that the game is awesome and to imply that the above mentioned 'vocal minority' is wrong
3. The same 'vocal minority' mostly thinks this game is awesome except for the last 10 minutes
4. They want to "provide clarity" to the ending and give more "closure", implying the 'vocal minority' are a bunch of idiots who don't get the 'artistic' ending
5. The end of the blog tries to slander the retake movement in a subtle way by referring to the "destructive" part of the movement

Don't throw us a bone Bioware, we're not some stupid dog.

We're soldiers
and we're
HOLDING THE LINE

Really? he blatantly called you idiots? I guess I read a different blog post. Showing your colors retake movement, showing your colors.

If you liked the ending good for you. We don't and there is nothing that will change our minds.

[Impulse and Compulse]

Amen to OP. Couldn't agree more.

But to the statement.....meh. It's a nice gesture, but still a thinly veiled attempt to get the angry fans to calm down so they can hit us with a DLC that charges us to fix an ending that they know they dropped the ball on. I still encourage anything that gets their attention; no matter what this guy says, profits are profits, and when they can make profits and please fans at the same time, you can guarantee they'll do just that.

[Qutayba]

Let's try to be fair to Ray. Any letter like that has to be filled with PR-spin corporate-speak. He has to put the best face on it that he can. Yes, when you get down to it, he's not really budging - basically sticking by their original plan to announce something "cool" in April (probably PAX). But he assures us they're working on something to do with the ending.

He can't go down and enumerate all our grievances because that would be bad PR for them. I'm sure the rest of the team sees that the problem is more than just "closure" (although, I'd agree that using the term "closure" is sort of a pop-psych put-down).

I'm going to be patient and reserve judgement until I see what they've got. If it's a piece of condescending crap, I'm out of here. But if they gave it a solid try, I'm willing to forgive, even if it's not everything I want.

They've been handling this all wrong, I agree. And I think there's nothing inappropriate about us continuing to hold the line here to remind them of their commitment.

[steev02]

Daedalus1773 wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

steev02 wrote...

HOLD THE LINE

Today's blogpost is completely unsatisfying

1. They still treat us as a vocal minority
2. They still refer to the positive professional reviews as proof that the game is awesome and to imply that the above mentioned 'vocal minority' is wrong
3. The same 'vocal minority' mostly thinks this game is awesome except for the last 10 minutes
4. They want to "provide clarity" to the ending and give more "closure", implying the 'vocal minority' are a bunch of idiots who don't get the 'artistic' ending
5. The end of the blog tries to slander the retake movement in a subtle way by referring to the "destructive" part of the movement

Don't throw us a bone Bioware, we're not some stupid dog.

We're soldiers
and we're
HOLDING THE LINE

Really? he blatantly called you idiots? I guess I read a different blog post. Showing your colors retake movement, showing your colors.

The poster you are quoting used the word "implied", which is not "blatant" at all. I'd say you're showing your own colors here a bit.  The blog post today did little more than "imply" a lot of things.

Exactly, thank you.

The blogpost is another well put together PR-stunt which says a lot, but nothing concrete.
Which is exactly why we have to hold the line, until we get some real answers.

[Hexi-decimal]

Honest to god, the more you people **** about everything and anything the more my opinion on the endings shift from bad to good. This was an entirely fair response. YOU WILL NOT ALWAYS GET IT YOUR WAY. They can't, nor should they try to please all of you. I have fully read hundreds of complaints (and have witnessed thousands) and most vary in many ways when it comes to "what was wrong with the end".

Was the end good. No. Was it bad. Pretty much yeah. Am I glad you guys ****ed enough to have bioware do something about it. Sure. Can we please the keep the complaints associated to the ending and not their response to your response about the ending for Christ's sake?

[steev02]

terdferguson123 wrote...

steev02 wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

steev02 wrote...

HOLD THE LINE

Today's blogpost is completely unsatisfying

1. They still treat us as a vocal minority
2. They still refer to the positive professional reviews as proof that the game is awesome and to imply that the above mentioned 'vocal minority' is wrong
3. The same 'vocal minority' mostly thinks this game is awesome except for the last 10 minutes
4. They want to "provide clarity" to the ending and give more "closure", implying the 'vocal minority' are a bunch of idiots who don't get the 'artistic' ending
5. The end of the blog tries to slander the retake movement in a subtle way by referring to the "destructive" part of the movement

Don't throw us a bone Bioware, we're not some stupid dog.

We're soldiers
and we're
HOLDING THE LINE

Really? he blatantly called you idiots? I guess I read a different blog post. Showing your colors retake movement, showing your colors.

And I guess your read another post.
I said "implying we're idiots", not "blatantly" calling us idiots.

Ok. He implied you were idiots? I guess I read a different blog post.

We read the same blog post, but have a different interpretation.

The fact that people interpret the blog post differently, proves it contains no clear answers. And the latter is what the retake movement wants.

[weltraumhamster89]

Thornne wrote...

I think what you're hearing is the difference between customer service and public relations.

I believe most of the statements we've been getting are PR designed to protect ME3 sales. These messages do not appear to be intended for existing customers who are already upset at the ending. They seem to be intended for people who haven't yet bought the game, to assure them that the there is no actual problem, and thus no reason not to buy it.

It probably doesn't seem like they're listening because, no matter how many times you say 'I'm listening', people won't believe it if you cannot acknowledge what they're saying. Show that you understand their position and why they hold it. And acknowledging the problem is not what they're doing at this stage, I guess.

I've basically been ignoring Bioware's social media output for this reason. I don't think it is meant for me at all. I'm just waiting for the answer to my question as a customer -- what are you guys going to do, if anything, to fix this product you sold me?

This. It feels more like advertisement in a way (especially the last part where he tells people to buy the game), but I'll hold on to any straw right now. What I do not like is the "closure" and "clarification" - part... Sounds more like they will stick to their ending and maybe add some videos showing Joker and Garrus repopulating the Eden-planet..

[Almostfaceman]

Stygian1 wrote...

 First off, if you haven't read this: http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/   I'd recommend that you do.

So when I first saw that BioWare had officially responded to its fans, I thought "wow maybe you guys really are listening, maybe you actually want to fix this for the fans. Maybe you actually see that your ending was truely ill-planned and overall inept at bringing a close to such a gripping story." 

Then.... well then I read the response. I was disapointed to say the least. 

First, I'll point out the positives that I took from this response:

   1. BioWare, you are listening enough to be AWARE that we hate the ending. Which, to be honest, I think a deaf man in a coma would be aware of by this point.

    2. BioWare, you are willing to tie yourself to an official statement, and in that statement you make it clear that not only will you address the flaws of the ending, but you are willing to work on it.

Now, here is what I found infuriating about this response: 

    1. BioWare seems to think, or at least say, that what we are all angry about is that the ending didn't provide enough closure. Heh. 

     "Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey."

  We don't just want closure! I mean to say the least, yeah most of us do want closure. But, one of our biggest complaints is that your ending is riddled with plot holes, ill-placed themes, deus ex machina cliche scenarios and above all that the ending takes away all choice from the players and turns their hero into a mindless drone and slave to the very beings he has fought so hard against. We don't want closure to an ending like this, we want closure to an ending we love, to an ending that after we finish we can put down the control and do a fist pump in the air (kinda like in ME1&2). We want a range of outcomes, good and bad, and above all we want our choices to matter--which in this current ending they are basically worth a morning constitutional...

To be fair to Bioware, providing "closure" can be addressing the points you bring up. The fact that they are researching our feedback means they will obviously see these concerns you mention brought up thousands of times. I think this is a good step forward.

    2. BioWare seems to think that most people love this game. 

    "However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better."

     Yeah.... have you checked ANY player or consumer ratings? I mean really how more obvious could it be that the majority of people purchasing you game rate it one star! (Look on amazon fyi, or any other website that sells ME3 and you shall see my point). I will say this though, BioWare, you did a great, no a fantastic job on this game. You made me fall into this awesome universe even more. The gameplay was great, the story was superb. I couldn't set down the controler. But, that ending, the ending alone (5 minutes) is what is turning your game from a 5 star GOTY to a 1 star piece of poo. It literally sucks the life out of the entire franchise.

To be fair, most of us have been saying we love the game up and until the ending. So, he does have a point and that is a clue that they are reading our feeback. We DO love the game for the most part. So the ending does need to be addressed. Yes, the ending does ruin the experience, but they did do a whole lot of things right.

I'm losing faith in your capability to address these issues BioWAre. I am aware I am only one person, but I am also aware that I have been a faithful customer for many years. I have poured every ounce of myself into this series--but I can't and won't follow you anymore if you don't respond to the outcry of not "some of our loyal fans" but almost ALL of your fans.

Listen BioWare, just see that we don't want to fight you. We just want you to see this from our perspective. What you created in the last five minutes of ME3 was a shiver of a brush stroke that ruined a well concieved portrait. That is not art, that is a mistake, a mistake that can be righted. We don't just want closure, we want an ending that is as beautiful and artistic as the rest of this magnificent series.

/end rant. 

(first thread ever, sorry if I got a little impassioned.) 

"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received."

I've highlighted what I think is important in this statement. It's just my opinion of course, but it's undeniable that they are listening to us, they say their listening to us, and we can have an impact on the ending of ME3. WE are their research. I say we have given them and we should continue to give them a lot of research in the manner of constructive criticism.