336 réponses à ce sujet

[RedShft]

I just don't understand how it can be so easy to screw up an ending when you have so many great templates in games that your company has made before. An ending to the extent of DA:O with it's epilogue, i'm specifically referring to the text that explains the long-term consequences. That would be great. Instead we get nothing.

It's so hard to even give constructive criticism on the ending without knowing what their intent was. If Bioware came out and said we were trying to do "X, Y and Z" with the ending. I could at least see purpose to parts of the ending. However since everything is so secretive, and not to mention the air of arrogance in the gaming industry where developers won't talk to their customers about specifics because "they just won't understand", it's incredibly hard to sympathize with Bioware and their ending.

[Stygian1]

Ultra Prism wrote...

Destructive behavior is happening because when you lie at someone, he/she won't come back paragon-way to say "its okay" .. Review bombing happen the hell out ... look at Amazon, they offering refunds wow, No matter how many of us played Paragon, we are upset and raging for receiving such shallow ending to such great series ....

I do think a lot of people have taken the renegade route, but really, I think a lot more of us have been civily presenting our complaints on the forums and through other outlets. We aren't trying to hurt BioWare, but they seem to think ALL of us are out to get them. 

[MeganHunter]

Thornne wrote...

I think what you're hearing is the difference between customer service and public relations.

I believe most of the statements we've been getting are PR designed to protect ME3 sales. These messages do not appear to be intended for existing customers who are already upset at the ending. They seem to be intended for people who haven't yet bought the game, to assure them that the there is no actual problem, and thus no reason not to buy it.

It probably doesn't seem like they're listening because, no matter how many times you say 'I'm listening', people won't believe it if you cannot acknowledge what they're saying. Show that you understand their position and why they hold it. And acknowledging the problem is not what they're doing at this stage, I guess.

I've basically been ignoring Bioware's social media output for this reason. I don't think it is meant for me at all. I'm just waiting for the answer to my question as a customer -- what are you guys going to do, if anything, to fix this product you sold me?

This. You win all the internets.

Unfortunately there's no way for us to know, they could be ignoring us. But it's just as likely that they can't come out and say it, or even that some of the writing staff never went for the current endings in the first place. They're Bioware afterall. And I'm sure the bigger threads and better articles, the ones really articulating the various problems we have (usually diffused with a bit of humor), I'm sure they've seen all of those. Whether they choose to address each facet, we'll have to wait and see. But we wanted to make sure they got the message, and they must have by this point.

Still, we have to keep a gentle pressure on and hold the line. If we all walk away now corporate big wigs can easily write the whole thing off as the next Occupy. But the man's asking for a little trust, and he's earned that with the first 99% of the series. I'm just a little shocked they didn't realize that last 1% is, you know, worth more than 1%.

[JulienJaden]

Neuthung wrote...

Stygian1 wrote...

 First off, if you haven't read this: http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/   I'd recommend that you do.

So when I first saw that BioWare had officially responded to its fans, I thought "wow maybe you guys really are listening, maybe you actually want to fix this for the fans. Maybe you actually see that your ending was truely ill-planned and overall inept at bringing a close to such a gripping story." 

Then.... well then I read the response. I was disapointed to say the least. 

First, I'll point out the positives that I took from this response:

   1. BioWare, you are listening enough to be AWARE that we hate the ending. Which, to be honest, I think a deaf man in a coma would be aware of by this point.

    2. BioWare, you are willing to tie yourself to an official statement, and in that statement you make it clear that not only will you address the flaws of the ending, but you are willing to work on it.

Now, here is what I found infuriating about this response: 

    1. BioWare seems to think, or at least say, that what we are all angry about is that the ending didn't provide enough closure. Heh. 

     "Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey."

  We don't just want closure! I mean to say the least, yeah most of us do want closure. But, one of our biggest complaints is that your ending is riddled with plot holes, ill-placed themes, deus ex machina cliche scenarios and above all that the ending takes away all choice from the players and turns their hero into a mindless drone and slave to the very beings he has fought so hard against. We don't want closure to an ending like this, we want closure to an ending we love, to an ending that after we finish we can put down the control and do a fist pump in the air (kinda like in ME1&2). We want a range of outcomes, good and bad, and above all we want our choices to matter--which in this current ending they are basically worth a morning constitutional... 

    2. BioWare seems to think that most people love this game. 

    "However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better."

     Yeah.... have you checked ANY player or consumer ratings? I mean really how more obvious could it be that the majority of people purchasing you game rate it one star! (Look on amazon fyi, or any other website that sells ME3 and you shall see my point). I will say this though, BioWare, you did a great, no a fantastic job on this game. You made me fall into this awesome universe even more. The gameplay was great, the story was superb. I couldn't set down the controler. But, that ending, the ending alone (5 minutes) is what is turning your game from a 5 star GOTY to a 1 star piece of poo. It literally sucks the life out of the entire franchise. 

I'm losing faith in your capability to address these issues BioWAre. I am aware I am only one person, but I am also aware that I have been a faithful customer for many years. I have poured every ounce of myself into this series--but I can't and won't follow you anymore if you don't respond to the outcry of not "some of our loyal fans" but almost ALL of your fans.

Listen BioWare, just see that we don't want to fight you. We just want you to see this from our perspective. What you created in the last five minutes of ME3 was a shiver of a brush stroke that ruined a well concieved portrait. That is not art, that is a mistake, a mistake that can be righted. We don't just want closure, we want an ending that is as beautiful and artistic as the rest of this magnificent series.

/end rant. 

(first thread ever, sorry if I got a little impassioned.) 

I'm all for the Retake movement, and I was disatisfied with the endings. But DO NOT DARE use childish review bombing over the ending as an arguing point, that's the "destructive" behavior he was talking about. This game is far better than one ****ing star, and you damn well know it. Yes I want more options and closure in my ending, but that isn't a legitimate way to get it.

To be fair, do you think a 95% rating for game in which choice matters, that's advertized for making choice matter and that throws all that out of the window in the end is fair? Review bombing may be childish (personally, I'd give the game a 2 star rating / 30 out 100 because it's a great game but the ending is just an insult to me as a writer) but it is blatantly obvious that the critics Ray refers to were biased, since they never even mentioned the ending. Either they didn't play the game in its entirety, or they were picked based on the rating they would give the game, or they were offered "incentives" to rate the game higher.

I mean, come on, every critic out there who reviewed it post-release at least mentions the ending and the controversy; quite a lot of them recognize it as a major issue. On the other hand, IGN, just to name one, sticks by its review and has called us "entitled brats" along with the rest of the positive reviewers.
So, with all due respect, Ray: Don't mention those. It just shows how much you disregard our criticism, because most of us admit that it's a great game, except for those last, terrible 15 minutes. You don't need the critics to tell you that.



As far as everything else goes, OP is spot on.

[jkflipflopDAO]

Neuthung wrote...


I'm all for the Retake movement, and I was disatisfied with the endings. But DO NOT DARE use childish review bombing over the ending as an arguing point, that's the "destructive" behavior he was talking about. This game is far better than one ****ing star, and you damn well know it. Yes I want more options and closure in my ending, but that isn't a legitimate way to get it.

Not that I advocate review bombing, but I think ME3 only deserves one star. The ending not only ruins this game, but it manages to totally shred the lore of the preceding games at the same time and takes down the entire series in flames. 

[CaptainBlackGold]

About review bombing and dramatically lower user scores - while I have not personally done this, I can understand why many have done so. Regardless of how good the rest of the game may be (personally I loved it), for me the ending ruined not just ME3 but the entire franchise.

What Bioware "seems" to want is for everyone to gush on how great the rest of the game was and somehow ignore the fact that the present ending destroys their own creation for a considerable number of their fans - but that is the very core of the problem. We cannot in good conscience recommend this game to others, when we find that their current ending deplorable.

I have tried, repeatedly, to start another play-through and just give up; what's the point? So yeah, if asked about this franchise, I would have to say, "Don't bother..." As others have said, I do not need "closure" I need an ending that makes sense and is consistent with everything this series already established.

If Bioware, for whatever reason, chooses not to address this then I simply will not buy any DLC and move on to other games - while letting peers know the reason.

That is not being "whiney" or "entitled" or "butt hurt" just an informed consumer who finds their product unsatisfactory. And letting them know the reason why they lost a customer is not simply fan outrage, but hopefully, feedback they can use to avoid this problem in the future.

So yeah, because the ending ruined not just ME3 but the entire franchise for me, if asked, I would have to give this game a very low score even though I loved 98% of it.

[Stygian1]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Not that I advocate review bombing, but I think ME3 only deserves one star. The ending not only ruins this game, but it manages to totally shred the lore of the preceding games at the same time and takes down the entire series in flames. 

This is so true, I wish BioWare could see it. 

[Silveralen]

scq wrote...

One starring is an extreme measure and I don't think that accurately reflects the game either. It is certainly my opinion and theirs as well, but how many people, though upset with the ending, could really give ME3 one star and one star only? Maybe 6 or 7 out of 10, but to say it's 1 star is to say it was garbage and unplayable. If they found the game to be so, fair assessment, and while the ending is supremely important, I doubt it turns an otherwise near-perfect game into something you would pay someone to avoid.

I am happier with my purchase of postal 3 than ME3. Go look up some reveiws for Postal 3 real quick.

Yeah, I think it deserves low. Really low. It is a bad game right now. A crappy story in a game mostly about the sotry make it bad.

I'm tired of being nice out this, right now? ME3 isn't worth 60 bucks, I wouldn't even buy it for 40. Maybe 20-30, tops.

[Zealuu]

Review bombing is completely understandable - it's one of the outlets for customer dissatisfaction that is actually visible from a corporate perspective, and it becomes especially pointed when it sits right next to the glowing adulation from the demonstrably dishonest gaming press.

[Stygian1]

Zealuu wrote...

Review bombing is completely understandable - it's one of the outlets for customer dissatisfaction that is actually visible from a corporate perspective, and it becomes especially pointed when it sits right next to the glowing adulation from the demonstrably dishonest gaming press.

I agree, it is so telling (especially on metacritic) to see their review next to consumer reviews. It shows how corrupt (or at least inept) most reviewers are. 

[RedShft]

Zealuu wrote...

Review bombing is completely understandable - it's one of the outlets for customer dissatisfaction that is actually visible from a corporate perspective, and it becomes especially pointed when it sits right next to the glowing adulation from the demonstrably dishonest gaming press.

Review bombing just validates the fact that reviews are worthless. No one, especially the developer should pay attention to them. 

[Blown_Apart]

Main character buying the farm? No problem there, I can live with that kind of ending.

3 'endings' that are either flawed to the core or look suspiciously like they pinched it from somewhere else? I get grumpy at that.

I like the Indoc theory to a point... Crucible isn't meant to be a cellular reconstructor, or digitization beam, it's a dark energy weapon of terrifying scope. Are we meant to be sure of what it does? No.nBut we sure as hell built it, if Indoc theory is right, we haven't fired it yet if the ending as it stands is accurate, then I'm sorry to say that the 1-star rating is justified.

I'm not saying this as a butt-hurt tween or emo, I'm saying this as a mature and reasonable customer, who having been promised a grand ending... Gets 3 variations of vanilla laced with cyanide. I'm enjoying the multiplayer, but every time I try to play the single player, I am reminded of the ending, and just how pointless the end of the game actually is, and sadly, it's tainting mass effect 1 and 2.

I hate the ending, my mass effect loving sister hates the ending, my tech sister pulled holes in the ending. To dismiss the 'destructive' critisicm in light of a few review sites giving good scores and talking about the gameplay and multiplayer (NOT the ending) is at the best, an attempt to get people to stop the review bombing, and at worst... Artistic elitism. you burn your customers with that 'artistic' bullcrap, There won't be any customers left to sell to.

ANZAC division reporting, line will hold until we are overrun. Bracing to hold off the siege, and monitoring comm chatter for updates.

[Axialbloom]

Stygian1 wrote...

 First off, if you haven't read this: http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/   I'd recommend that you do.

So when I first saw that BioWare had officially responded to its fans, I thought "wow maybe you guys really are listening, maybe you actually want to fix this for the fans. Maybe you actually see that your ending was truely ill-planned and overall inept at bringing a close to such a gripping story." 

Then.... well then I read the response. I was disapointed to say the least. 

First, I'll point out the positives that I took from this response:

   1. BioWare, you are listening enough to be AWARE that we hate the ending. Which, to be honest, I think a deaf man in a coma would be aware of by this point.

    2. BioWare, you are willing to tie yourself to an official statement, and in that statement you make it clear that not only will you address the flaws of the ending, but you are willing to work on it.

Now, here is what I found infuriating about this response: 

    1. BioWare seems to think, or at least say, that what we are all angry about is that the ending didn't provide enough closure. Heh. 

     "Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey."

  We don't just want closure! I mean to say the least, yeah most of us do want closure. But, one of our biggest complaints is that your ending is riddled with plot holes, ill-placed themes, deus ex machina cliche scenarios and above all that the ending takes away all choice from the players and turns their hero into a mindless drone and slave to the very beings he has fought so hard against. We don't want closure to an ending like this, we want closure to an ending we love, to an ending that after we finish we can put down the control and do a fist pump in the air (kinda like in ME1&2). We want a range of outcomes, good and bad, and above all we want our choices to matter--which in this current ending they are basically worth a morning constitutional... 

    2. BioWare seems to think that most people love this game. 

    "However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better."

     Yeah.... have you checked ANY player or consumer ratings? I mean really how more obvious could it be that the majority of people purchasing you game rate it one star! (Look on amazon fyi, or any other website that sells ME3 and you shall see my point). I will say this though, BioWare, you did a great, no a fantastic job on this game. You made me fall into this awesome universe even more. The gameplay was great, the story was superb. I couldn't set down the controler. But, that ending, the ending alone (5 minutes) is what is turning your game from a 5 star GOTY to a 1 star piece of poo. It literally sucks the life out of the entire franchise. 

I'm losing faith in your capability to address these issues BioWAre. I am aware I am only one person, but I am also aware that I have been a faithful customer for many years. I have poured every ounce of myself into this series--but I can't and won't follow you anymore if you don't respond to the outcry of not "some of our loyal fans" but almost ALL of your fans.

Listen BioWare, just see that we don't want to fight you. We just want you to see this from our perspective. What you created in the last five minutes of ME3 was a shiver of a brush stroke that ruined a well concieved portrait. That is not art, that is a mistake, a mistake that can be righted. We don't just want closure, we want an ending that is as beautiful and artistic as the rest of this magnificent series.

/end rant. 

(first thread ever, sorry if I got a little impassioned.) 

Well said.

[MeganHunter]

I haven't actually given any reviews, myself. Normally I'd give it high marks, perhaps a notch lower than 1 and 2 because I just plum liked those better. But still, no worse than 8 of 10. So I'll never go on and give a horrible star review for it.

That said, I've already been telling my brother not to buy the game in the first place. I told him the ending pulled a "Wild Arms 3" and he instantly took my word for it. I felt bad and let up since it is a great game, but highly urged him to just turn the console off "between Anderson and Hackett."

[Dezerte]

Well written post, it reflects my reaction when I read the blog post.

[Fiannawolf]

Thing is I do love most of this series until after Harby hits you with the beam. Indoc theory helps to make some sense of it but its too abstract for my tastes as far as Videogames go. I go to paintings or some types of novels for that stuff.

If bioware is reading any of this:

Add in content after Shep wakes up. Bioware can keep thier abstract ending complete with kid and all while.....


What I want in my possible real endings: aka ENDGAME PART 2 or Why wasnt this in ME3 in the beginning.

Extreamly OMG your Fracked ending:

Like ME2's suicide mission, if you go in without enough resources, it will end badly. Show the results after attempted Indoc process on Shep. In the worst ending the Commander will most likely die ala ME2 to complete the mission. But show what happens to the universe and the races because you went in unprepared.

Show real varied endings. What happens if shep did get indoctrinated from Harbringer. Will s/he kill friends after they wake up? Destroy the only weapon/s against the Reapers, doom everyone ect. For those who want to see the trainwreak capablities of a doom and gloom outcome, they can have it. Hell you can even have "And I must Scream" Trope moment with shep as they realize they are slaughtering everyone while under Harbs control.

Middle-line ending:

Went in prepard but not enough to prevent Shepard from utimately dying in the end but before s/he goes out you see how they defeated the Reapers and a final conversation with Friends and LI before Shep goes to the "Bar". In this ending the last scenes can be of how each planet and major decisions of Shep helped shape the Galaxy. Even Fallout 1 did this with the Vault Dweller main PC and allowed for a good amount of closure.

"Earn your Happy/Bittersweet Ending"

Must be uber prepard to take back Earth and resist Reaper Indoc at Citidel Beam Sequence.

Shep survives, reunited with Team/LI, Anderson and everyone else. This version shows the results of decisions, not all would be alive but Shepard will say farewells for those they lost in a state/galatic funeral ceremony. BIGGEST THING: SHOW RESULTS OF PREVIOUS DECISIONS AND HOW IT ULTIMATELY PLAYS OUT!

In this endgame we could have flashback/memory sequences to other important events in Shep's life, Wedding? Premotions, other missions post Reaper if TIM Situation isnt resolved, or even during reaper war for extra stories so Devs can get any side missions in without keeping with this Half Ending we have atm. Hell the memory shard Javik gives you in London would be the perfect vehicle to relive different moments in your Sheps life that are important. For LI enthusiasts this could be replay of thier weddings? Kids? Fun moments with ME crewmates.

Just some of my thoughts. Heck my Warden and Alistar had a more memorable ending/wedding then my poor Sheps will at this point in time.

[Berserku]

Bioware need to address the bunch of holes the endings have, the false advertisement and the lack of closure.
Game was awesome, no doubt about that, but the ending really affect the overall opinion of the game, at least for us fans.

Holding the line.

[shepskisaac]

Stygian1 wrote...

We aren't trying to hurt BioWare, but they seem to think ALL of us are out to get them.

Threads like this give them more reasons to think so. They release a statement and say they WILL expand on the ending and that they're gathering feedback, already working on it and will release more details next month yet here you are, opening your "they still don't listen rage!!! I won't be happy unless they use the right ideas, MINE ideas, how to fix the ending" thread

Modifié par IsaacShep, 21 mars 2012 - 06:15 .

[Cucobr]

HOLD THE LINE

[Edje Edgar]

Unless they fix shephards character murder I will never ever be pleased. Ive come to the point where I can accept everything, the depressing ending, the plotholes even starchilds last minute appearance as long as shephard has the chance to give that lil **** the finger.

Modifié par Edje Edgar, 21 mars 2012 - 06:16 .

[Lugaidster]

@OP you seem to be suffering from a mild case of unrealistic expectations, and you seem to talk by putting words in other people's mouths. I don't like the ending, I chip'd in for the charity and I liked the page in Facebook, but I don't mind the star-child and I don't expect them to do a massive ret-con on the ending. It'd be stupid and I'd be really disappointed, even more so than now. Moreover, it really is pretty early in the fight to say we've come to a consensus on what we didn't like in the ending. I've seen many posts saying vastly different ideas.

The damage is already done, you (nor I) didn't get what you wanted the first time around, addressing everything everyone wants addressed is unrealistic at best right now. I say just hold the line and wait for them to actually present any solution at all. Too many are getting ahead of themselves when BW has barely committed to anything beyond addressing the complains. Spread ourselves too thin, and we'll lose before accomplishing anything. And what I mean by that is that expecting each individual complaint addressed this early in the process, only gives a sense of division rather than cohesion.

BTW. Hell yeah I'm going to be vocal about it, just as you want specific stuff addressed that I couldn't care less about, I want specific stuff addressed that you couldn't care less about. A middle-ground will be achieved, and a compromise will be made and some will still be angry. But for that to happen we must first stick together and hold the line!

Modifié par Lugaidster, 21 mars 2012 - 06:20 .

[Stygian1]

Edje Edgar wrote...

Unless they fix shephards character murder I will never ever be pleased. Ive come to the point where I can accept everything, the depressing ending, the plotholes even starchilds last minute appearance as long as shephard has the chance to give that lil **** the finger.

I know, that's all I really want (a retcon would be ideal but let's be realistic), a fourth option. An option where we can tell him to screw off and let the battle play out between reapers and the united galazy. Then assets mean something and there can be plenty of outcomes (including a genuinely happy one and a total failure). 

My sheppard would do that, he'd never surrender to the reaper's will. 


@Lugaidster, I see your point, notice this ^^^^^ 

Modifié par Stygian1, 21 mars 2012 - 06:22 .

[Silveralen]

IsaacShep wrote...

Stygian1 wrote...

We aren't trying to hurt BioWare, but they seem to think ALL of us are out to get them.

Threads like this give them more reasons to think so. They release a statement and say they WILL expand on the ending and that they're gathering feedback, already working on it and will release more details next month yet here you are, opening your "they still don't listen rage!!! I won't be happy unless they use the right ideas, MINE ideas, how to fix the ending" thread

1. People are unhappy for a variety of reasons.

2. People express discontent.

3. Bioware ignores all issues except one, and only acknowledges that one after being forced into it.

I'll be honest, not impressed. If they took the time to actually respond to all of our issues, even if they jsut say "we aren't doing this this or this and here i why" that'd be great. I'd be ok, atleast I'd know what they are willing to change.

[Draco2fox]

It's not just that the ending sours the rest of the game it actually makes it difficult to go back and replay it. I've been trying but then I flash back to the ending and have to walk away for a while. Still getting closure can be a step 1. Don't falter now and remember to be calm, polite and rational.

Hold the line

[kaidanluv]

Fail_Inc wrote...

I think they're missing the point we don't want to burn down Bioware or anything, we want them to make the game even better and people know they can DO it.
Do you remember Duke Nukem Forever? or it's ending? Did anybody even care? NO because that game is terrible. Mass Effect 3 is an amazing game and deserves better/more endings. We refuse to say goodbye to Shepard like this that's all.

Exactly. I love Bioware. Look at all the fantastic games they make (ME3 included, except the last few minutes of it). The ending for ME3 just fell short of their usual caliber of storytelling is all, and I'm hoping they'll be able to fix that with one that is more satisfying/logical.

Modifié par kaidanluv, 21 mars 2012 - 06:27 .