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To BioWare, your response towards Retake, and how it is clear that you are not Listening.


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#201
Montana

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spychi wrote...

I am seeing one bad thing about Casey's reply

that they are going to answer all the questions of the endings, which I think means there won't be any kind of new ending or stuff like that, but just explanation on who why where with who


Space magic! :wizard:

On a serious note:
@OP well said.
I do however think that we should see this as a step in the right direction.
They ARE listening and trying to come up with something that will satisfy us.
Whatever it is, it can't be worse than what we've gotten already (well it could, but lets hope not ;)).

#202
Stygian1

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Unit-Alpha wrote...

Might want to read this:


"We suggest reading both Ray and Casey's statements. We will be creating additional content, not taking any away." ~ Mass Effect Twitter


will that new content happen to be a fourth option (tell star child off?), I hope so. :whistle:

#203
Silveralen

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-Skorpious- wrote...

Guys. This is a destructive thread. Ray said that Bioware will dismiss destructive actions. We need to offer criticism in a positive manner if we want to see our grievances addressed.


Quick, everyone brown nose Bioware so their feelings don't get hurt! Because the company has been very respectful of its fans, you know with the blatant lies, the condescencion, demonizing us, and in general acting like our complaints are completely illegtimate. Bioware is demanding respect while not giving any in turn. The whole situation is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

#204
Shatterhand1701

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812memphis wrote...

milkymcmilkerson wrote...

Also, we have to realize that at the end of the day, the Mass Effect story is their baby. I doubt the ending is ever going to completely change, but they will find a way to correct their mistakes while still making the story their own.


And when they did i can close that chapter of my life.

IF i buy something from BioWare again i will wait a week or two and wait what the Customers are saying. 

If a Game like RandomFPS had a Bad Ending, i don't care that much because i spend 5-6 hours to go through the campaign, this is different.
I don't know why but i take this kind of personal, as if some one took a good and beloved memory from me :(
I mean, for the most of us the End is so frustrating that we don't remember the good things within the ME Series.


EXACTLY THIS. 

Any other game with a weak and silly ending, we'd probably make fun of the game and dismiss it without much more fuss.  Mass Effect is different.  The gameplay, the rich and fascinating background of the universe the story is set in, the characters that we came to care about like real people...no everyday game can bring us what ME did.  So for BioWare to trip up on such a massive scale...it can't be excused and dismissed.  It's not so much that the fans deserve better.  Mass Effect deserves better.

#205
McAllyster

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Well said OP.

#206
LolaLei

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Amen OP!

#207
Roguekad

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Neuthung wrote...

I'm all for the Retake movement, and I was disatisfied with the endings. But DO NOT DARE use childish review bombing over the ending as an arguing point, that's the "destructive" behavior he was talking about. This game is far better than one ****ing star, and you damn well know it. Yes I want more options and closure in my ending, but that isn't a legitimate way to get it.


I can agree with you that the rewiew bombing is EXACTLY the type of behavior he was talking about, but an you really tell me that his comment about the great reviews was on the mark? Personally up to that elevator ride I would call it a 10/10, but after it was such a jarring experience that made such little sense I'd (and have on a few sites) given it a 8.5 or 9/10.

The bombers my be tainting the rewiews, but as it stands I don't know how anyone following Retake ould give it or support a 10/10.

Modifié par Roguekad, 21 mars 2012 - 07:25 .


#208
TomekN86

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+1 OP

#209
SirCroft

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Unit-Alpha wrote...

Might want to read this:


"We suggest reading both Ray and Casey's statements. We will be creating additional content, not taking any away." ~ Mass Effect Twitter

Image IPB


The Indoctrination Theory instantly comes to mind, since, considering it happened in Shepard's mind, they wouldn't need to dismiss it.

Modifié par SirCroft, 21 mars 2012 - 07:26 .


#210
Lawliet89

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There is also the part about the ending not taking into account of our decisions throughout the game. I mean ME2 was a very good example of an ending many of us wanted!

#211
refuse81

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SirCroft wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Might want to read this:


"We suggest reading both Ray and Casey's statements. We will be creating additional content, not taking any away." ~ Mass Effect Twitter

Image IPB


The Indoctrination Theory instantly comes to mind, since, considering it happened in Shepard's mind, they wouldn't need to dismiss it.


Indoctrination theory is both a terrible idea in itself and denial in concept. That tweet confirms my suspicion that
A. Bioware don't really care what we want,
B. Cam Walters 'artistic' vision is more important and
C.We basically haven't heard anything new since we saw the "buy more dlc" splash screen at the ending.

Modifié par refuse81, 21 mars 2012 - 07:31 .


#212
eddieoctane

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Critic rating can be bought because most game-related media avoids government regulation by operating on the net. They have as much value as Confederate currency. Scratch that. Some people collect Civil War stuff, and no one wants to hear from IGN about how "great" the game was.

#213
Stygian1

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refuse81 wrote...

SirCroft wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Might want to read this:


"We suggest reading both Ray and Casey's statements. We will be creating additional content, not taking any away." ~ Mass Effect Twitter

Image IPB


The Indoctrination Theory instantly comes to mind, since, considering it happened in Shepard's mind, they wouldn't need to dismiss it.


Indoctrination theory is both a terrible idea in itself and denial in concept. That tweet confirms my suspicion that
A. Bioware don't really care what we want,
B. Cam Walters 'artistic' vision is more important and
C.We basically haven't heard anything new since we saw the "buy more dlc" splash screen at the ending.


Unfortanely I agree with A and B. But, I think they will come out with an irritating epilogue comic or something, which would destroy our movement's credibility but still not do anything.... 

#214
JPR1964

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Well put, I'm with you in the Line...

Hold it!

JPR out!

#215
Hashbeth

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TomekN86 wrote...

+1 OP



#216
eddieoctane

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Unit-Alpha wrote...

Might want to read this:


"We suggest reading both Ray and Casey's statements. We will be creating additional content, not taking any away." ~ Mass Effect Twitter

Image IPB


Well, Colin clearly doesn't know that actual writers gave up the ability more than a century ago.

#217
refuse81

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eddieoctane wrote...

Critic rating can be bought because most game-related media avoids government regulation by operating on the net. They have as much value as Confederate currency. Scratch that. Some people collect Civil War stuff, and no one wants to hear from IGN about how "great" the game was.


The funny thing is '75' amazing reviews means just 75 individuals thought it was perfect. 75. Apparently those 75 critics voice are worth more than thousands of their fans. That says a great deal. Also, as much as I love the game, I'd have to be blind to think it is 'perfect'.

#218
Stygian1

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refuse81 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Critic rating can be bought because most game-related media avoids government regulation by operating on the net. They have as much value as Confederate currency. Scratch that. Some people collect Civil War stuff, and no one wants to hear from IGN about how "great" the game was.


The funny thing is '75' amazing reviews means just 75 individuals thought it was perfect. 75. Apparently those 75 critics voice are worth more than thousands of their fans. That says a great deal. Also, as much as I love the game, I'd have to be blind to think it is 'perfect'.


haha I guess BioWare thinks 75>75,000 

*shrugs* 

#219
terdferguson123

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Stygian1 wrote...

 First off, if you haven't read this: http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/   I'd recommend that you do.

So when I first saw that BioWare had officially responded to its fans, I thought "wow maybe you guys really are listening, maybe you actually want to fix this for the fans. Maybe you actually see that your ending was truely ill-planned and overall inept at bringing a close to such a gripping story." 

Then.... well then I read the response. I was disapointed to say the least. 

First, I'll point out the positives that I took from this response:

   1. BioWare, you are listening enough to be AWARE that we hate the ending. Which, to be honest, I think a deaf man in a coma would be aware of by this point.

    2. BioWare, you are willing to tie yourself to an official statement, and in that statement you make it clear that not only will you address the flaws of the ending, but you are willing to work on it.

Now, here is what I found infuriating about this response: 

    1. BioWare seems to think, or at least say, that what we are all angry about is that the ending didn't provide enough closure. Heh. 

     "Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey."

  We don't just want closure! I mean to say the least, yeah most of us do want closure. But, one of our biggest complaints is that your ending is riddled with plot holes, ill-placed themes, deus ex machina cliche scenarios and above all that the ending takes away all choice from the players and turns their hero into a mindless drone and slave to the very beings he has fought so hard against. We don't want closure to an ending like this, we want closure to an ending we love, to an ending that after we finish we can put down the control and do a fist pump in the air (kinda like in ME1&2). We want a range of outcomes, good and bad, and above all we want our choices to matter--which in this current ending they are basically worth a morning constitutional... 

    2. BioWare seems to think that most people love this game. 

    "However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better."

     Yeah.... have you checked ANY player or consumer ratings? I mean really how more obvious could it be that the majority of people purchasing you game rate it one star! (Look on amazon fyi, or any other website that sells ME3 and you shall see my point). I will say this though, BioWare, you did a great, no a fantastic job on this game. You made me fall into this awesome universe even more. The gameplay was great, the story was superb. I couldn't set down the controler. But, that ending, the ending alone (5 minutes) is what is turning your game from a 5 star GOTY to a 1 star piece of poo. It literally sucks the life out of the entire franchise. 

I'm losing faith in your capability to address these issues BioWAre. I am aware I am only one person, but I am also aware that I have been a faithful customer for many years. I have poured every ounce of myself into this series--but I can't and won't follow you anymore if you don't respond to the outcry of not "some of our loyal fans" but almost ALL of your fans.

Listen BioWare, just see that we don't want to fight you. We just want you to see this from our perspective. What you created in the last five minutes of ME3 was a shiver of a brush stroke that ruined a well concieved portrait. That is not art, that is a mistake, a mistake that can be righted. We don't just want closure, we want an ending that is as beautiful and artistic as the rest of this magnificent series.

/end rant. 

(first thread ever, sorry if I got a little impassioned.) :?



1.) That IS what your angry about, closure is more of a general term for wanting things to be explained better, Dr. Muzyka isn't wrong on this, it's just your warped interpretation that is the problem.

2.) Most people DO love this game, using a bunch of 1's on metacritic and amazon as your proof otherwise is silly. Bioware, and several other good games have been getting review bombed there for a long time now just because of the name, most of them have nothing to do with the game. In fact, a large chunk of metacritic reviews were posted literally hours after the game released, there was no way people had possibly played the game at that point.

Dr. Muzyka's post directly aknowledges the retake movement's concerns and even says that Bioware is thinking of ways to address them. As I said in countless other threads, BE PATIENT, people are still playing the game for gods sakes IT JUST CAME OUT, not everyone has the time to beat a 40-50 hour game in a couple of weeks for petes sakes. In conclusion, chill out and BE PATIENT, it's a virtue in case you havn't heard.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 21 mars 2012 - 07:45 .


#220
Wildhide

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Well said. This is just more of the same PR spin they've been throwing at us for 2 weeks.

#221
RyanDMC

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This.

#222
Kumekerion

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A good point, it's still a wait and see what they really do kind of thing.

#223
refuse81

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terdferguson123 wrote...

Stygian1 wrote...

 First off, if you haven't read this: http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/   I'd recommend that you do.

So when I first saw that BioWare had officially responded to its fans, I thought "wow maybe you guys really are listening, maybe you actually want to fix this for the fans. Maybe you actually see that your ending was truely ill-planned and overall inept at bringing a close to such a gripping story." 

Then.... well then I read the response. I was disapointed to say the least. 

First, I'll point out the positives that I took from this response:

   1. BioWare, you are listening enough to be AWARE that we hate the ending. Which, to be honest, I think a deaf man in a coma would be aware of by this point.

    2. BioWare, you are willing to tie yourself to an official statement, and in that statement you make it clear that not only will you address the flaws of the ending, but you are willing to work on it.

Now, here is what I found infuriating about this response: 

    1. BioWare seems to think, or at least say, that what we are all angry about is that the ending didn't provide enough closure. Heh. 

     "Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey."

  We don't just want closure! I mean to say the least, yeah most of us do want closure. But, one of our biggest complaints is that your ending is riddled with plot holes, ill-placed themes, deus ex machina cliche scenarios and above all that the ending takes away all choice from the players and turns their hero into a mindless drone and slave to the very beings he has fought so hard against. We don't want closure to an ending like this, we want closure to an ending we love, to an ending that after we finish we can put down the control and do a fist pump in the air (kinda like in ME1&2). We want a range of outcomes, good and bad, and above all we want our choices to matter--which in this current ending they are basically worth a morning constitutional... 

    2. BioWare seems to think that most people love this game. 

    "However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better."

     Yeah.... have you checked ANY player or consumer ratings? I mean really how more obvious could it be that the majority of people purchasing you game rate it one star! (Look on amazon fyi, or any other website that sells ME3 and you shall see my point). I will say this though, BioWare, you did a great, no a fantastic job on this game. You made me fall into this awesome universe even more. The gameplay was great, the story was superb. I couldn't set down the controler. But, that ending, the ending alone (5 minutes) is what is turning your game from a 5 star GOTY to a 1 star piece of poo. It literally sucks the life out of the entire franchise. 

I'm losing faith in your capability to address these issues BioWAre. I am aware I am only one person, but I am also aware that I have been a faithful customer for many years. I have poured every ounce of myself into this series--but I can't and won't follow you anymore if you don't respond to the outcry of not "some of our loyal fans" but almost ALL of your fans.

Listen BioWare, just see that we don't want to fight you. We just want you to see this from our perspective. What you created in the last five minutes of ME3 was a shiver of a brush stroke that ruined a well concieved portrait. That is not art, that is a mistake, a mistake that can be righted. We don't just want closure, we want an ending that is as beautiful and artistic as the rest of this magnificent series.

/end rant. 

(first thread ever, sorry if I got a little impassioned.) :?



1.) That IS what your angry about, closure is more of a general term for wanting things to be explained better, Dr. Muzyka isn't wrong on this, it's just your warped interpretation that is the problem.

2.) Most people DO love this game, using a bunch of 1's on metacritic and amazon as your proof otherwise is silly. Bioware, and several other good games have been getting review bombed there for a long time now just because of the name, most of them have nothing to do with the game. In fact, a large chunk of metacritic reviews were posted literally hours after the game released, there was no way people had possibly played the game at that point.

Dr. Muzyka's post directly aknowledges the retake movement's concerns and even says that Bioware is thinking of ways to address them. As I said in countless other threads, BE PATIENT, people are still playing the game for gods sakes IT JUST CAME OUT, not everyone has the time to beat a 40-50 hour game in a couple of weeks for petes sakes. In conclusion, chill out and BE PATIENT, it's a virtue in case you havn't heard.


Keep your voice down man. You do not speak for everyone here. I for one don't dislike the ending because of lack of closure, it's the feeling of being thrown into a completely different game in the end where I don't have aything to say. I was bereft of choice and the whole thing felt like an insult of my intelligence. I just beat Deus Ex man.

Dr. Muzykas statement only reaffirms my belief that they are only listening to what they want to hear, stuff they can easily say without owning their mistake.

#224
MadMatt910

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Need moar threads like this. Bioware have stated they will make soncessions. We need to make it obvious what needs to be done. It will allow them to use their resources most efficiently and make the majority of people happy.

In seriousness, they can hold onto critic scores and things but critics dont pay the bills. Bioware have lost a lot of trst anyway. A good ending that satisfies a majority shows a real commitment to fans.

The current clarification answer seems like a token gesture so bioware can say, well were trying, you fans are just being difficult.

#225
Grumpy-Mcfart

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v0rt3x22 wrote...

 

1. BioWare, you are listening enough to be AWARE that we hate the ending. Which, to be honest, I think a deaf man in a coma would be aware of by this point

 

:lol:


couldn't put it better myself.