24 réponses à ce sujet

[cynicalsaint1]

I've been thinking about this a lot in the week since I finished the game, and have decided that the whole destroying the Mass Relays thing could work.

Granted the way it was handled in the ending as is - it doesn't. At all.

You see if they played up the angle that the Mass Relays are essentially Reaper Tech - then it could be said that to escape the Cycle the galaxy has to give up its reliance on Reaper Tech (the Citadel and the Mass Relays).

I'm sure you all remember Sovereign's big speech about how all of the galaxy's major technical advances are based around the Mass Relays and the other tech they left behind. So by destroying the Relays you're essentially giving the galactic community to evolve on its own without being guided by the invisible hand of the Reapers.

This actually makes a lot of sense if you think about some of the main themes of the Mass Effect series (self-determination in particular). 

Now for this to actually work they'd have to play up this angle - instead of just arbitrarily blow up the Relays, and give some sort of explanation on how the galactic community moves forward without the Relays or at least indicate that there is hope for doing so.

As it is we're just left hanging.
Don't get me wrong I still think Starchild needs to GTFO, but I think there are aspects of the ending that could be salvaged if they were handled properly.

[demin8891]

Since the Reapers are no longer a threat, I fail to see the problem with keeping the mass relays. A hand without a body is useless.

Modifié par demin8891, 21 mars 2012 - 05:07 .

[cynicalsaint1]

demin8891 wrote...

Since the Reapers are no longer a threat, I fail to see the problem with keeping the mass relays. A hand without a body is useless.

It's still Reaper tech though.
Isn't harnessing Reaper Tech for advancement TIM's goal?

[demin8891]

TIM's goal is advancement of humanity, and humanity only, through any means necessary, be it through Reaper tech or not. Using the relays as a mode of transportation is, in itself, harmless with the Reapers no longer a threat. At least that's how I view it.

[Taleroth]

There's no telling what TIM's goal is, anymore. He wasn't indoctrinating civilians as soldiers simply for advancement.

It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If Reapers also gave us fire and steel, does that mean we should move back into caves?

The Reapers aren't the ones who gave Tuchanka a future. The Reapers aren't the ones who took back Rannoch. The Reapers aren't the ones who unified the galaxy. Why should all of that suffer just to get rid of a piece of technology the Reapers built?

Modifié par Taleroth, 21 mars 2012 - 05:15 .

[Leafs43]

It cannot work.


Flying between stars that are in close proximity take tremendous amounts of eezo. No ship could carry enough eezo to other star clusters.

[EsterCloat]

cynicalsaint1 wrote...

demin8891 wrote...

Since the Reapers are no longer a threat, I fail to see the problem with keeping the mass relays. A hand without a body is useless.

It's still Reaper tech though.
Isn't harnessing Reaper Tech for advancement TIM's goal?

Tim wanted to control the Reapers themselves to make Humanity overlords of the galaxy. But that's not the point.

The Relays are necessary for a galactic community. Without the Relays, there is no galactic community and everyone would just stick to their little corner of the galaxy. So some argue that without Relays the species of the galaxy would be "free" to figure out their own way to get around.

Except the "damage" has already been done. They've seen the way to have a galactic community already: Mass Relays. So any work towards getting around will center around remaking the Relays, since making an entire new way to travel is crazy and they know more about the basic principles of how a Relay works than making an entirely new movement system from scratch, which makes destroying the Relays pointless. The end point is having Relays to get around anyway, just when you destroy them that end point will be several centuries down the line instead of now.

Relays are roads. They only limit as far as they themselves are able to reach. If civilization eventually reaches the point where the Relays are no longer useful, they will build upon the Relays and make better technology. By destroying the Relays, you throw everyone back to the technological transportation dark ages.

Modifié par EsterCloat, 21 mars 2012 - 05:25 .

[DranakShadow]

If the Protheans could make the conduit, I don't think it's too far off to say that the current races could one day make something similar.

[Meytiuy]

The explosions of the relays period -should- be impossible, considering the amount of damage destroying a relay is shown to make in The Arrival. That start system it was sitting in? Bunch of atoms, now.

Only way that you could get rid of the relays and leave the systems intact, would be if it weren't necessarily destroying them, but either turning them off or if the Catalyst was erasing mass effect fields from the universe all together, making the relays useless.

[rfrombrazil]

No, sorry. Either they remove Arrival from the canon (which would invalidate the beginning of ME3, and thus the whole ****ing game, basically, because we wouldn't see the kid in earth in the first place, and so on and on) because it established that an explosion, no different (maybe colors) from the ones in the ending released an amount of energy comparable to a supernova's. 

That is also now in physics as "enough to obliterate everything in light years of distance".

Or they completely retcon the endings. Which is what we hold the line for. 

I'm really, really sorry. For all of us, really. 

Hold the line!

[cynicalsaint1]

DranakShadow wrote...

If the Protheans could make the conduit, I don't think it's too far off to say that the current races could one day make something similar.

Exactly - who's to say that if the galaxy didn't pool its resources it couldn't figure out its own solution?

[ZtalkerRM]

cynicalsaint1 wrote...

DranakShadow wrote...

If the Protheans could make the conduit, I don't think it's too far off to say that the current races could one day make something similar.

Exactly - who's to say that if the galaxy didn't pool its resources it couldn't figure out its own solution?

There´s a codex entry somehwere (believe in ME1) about the Asari almost figuring out how to make a Mass Relay themselves.

How to get one to earth is a whole new problem though. How to build one on the Asari homeworld could be quite difficult too, since it's quite dead. Your point is valid, but Bioware screwed up it's own lore and codex

[rfrombrazil]

Meytiuy wrote...

The explosions of the relays period -should- be impossible, considering the amount of damage destroying a relay is shown to make in The Arrival. That start system it was sitting in? Bunch of atoms, now.

Only way that you could get rid of the relays and leave the systems intact, would be if it weren't necessarily destroying them, but either turning them off or if the Catalyst was erasing mass effect fields from the universe all together, making the relays useless.

To remove the fields, they have to remove the element zero (which is what generates a positve or negative ME field when a current runs through, beautiful idea btw). Removing element zero means, among other things, no asari! Lore in ME3 establishes that Thessia is so rich in eezo that life adapted to it (so no wonder the asari are, well, everything that makes up the asari).

No, i'm not kidding. I'm just on vacations.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

DranakShadow wrote...

If the Protheans could make the conduit, I don't think it's too far off to say that the current races could one day make something similar.

This.

Plus, you can get a lot of that tech back from the destroyed Reapers and their massive eezo cores. You'd have to think other species in the galaxy are doing it too. And once a few of them get it to work, they can probably work together to make a mass-relay system work again. It's not like it'll be first contact or anything either, especially with Earth littered with many an alien.

[rfrombrazil]

ZtalkerRM wrote...

cynicalsaint1 wrote...

DranakShadow wrote...

If the Protheans could make the conduit, I don't think it's too far off to say that the current races could one day make something similar.

Exactly - who's to say that if the galaxy didn't pool its resources it couldn't figure out its own solution?

There´s a codex entry somehwere (believe in ME1) about the Asari almost figuring out how to make a Mass Relay themselves.

How to get one to earth is a whole new problem though. How to build one on the Asari homeworld could be quite difficult too, since it's quite dead. Your point is valid, but Bioware screwed up it's own lore and codex

No, there isn't. They could barely navigate the relays, as you needed to risk it with an reaper IFF in ME2, let alone build a relay from scratch.

You're thinking about the matriarch in illium from ME2, which said that they should get cracking at it, in no way implying that they had anything else but hope that someday they could understand it. Hell they didn't understand enough of prothean technology to understand all the warnings, plans and possible countermeasures about the reapers that their main working (intact, really) beacon and prothean VI had, sitting on their home planet, for thousands of years. 

[cynicalsaint1]

ZtalkerRM wrote...

cynicalsaint1 wrote...

DranakShadow wrote...

If the Protheans could make the conduit, I don't think it's too far off to say that the current races could one day make something similar.

Exactly - who's to say that if the galaxy didn't pool its resources it couldn't figure out its own solution?

There´s a codex entry somehwere (believe in ME1) about the Asari almost figuring out how to make a Mass Relay themselves.

How to get one to earth is a whole new problem though. How to build one on the Asari homeworld could be quite difficult too, since it's quite dead. Your point is valid, but Bioware screwed up it's own lore and codex

We still have QEC tech at least - so we ought to be able to at least communicate across galactic scaled distances. Really a lot of the whole "moving forward without the relays" hinges on what can be done immediately after the final battle with current FTL tech.

And unfortunately its going to be up to BioWare to elaborate on that.

[N7Adept]

I agree with the OP. The destruction of the realys does not have to mean the end to space travel, on a grand scale, nor does it have to be the end of galactic trade and civilization. They have left it open enough to produce any amount of ideas to remedy the destruction of the relay systems. This is just one of many things, and for me the most important thing, that they need to clear up. I personally WANT to know that the galaxy can move on from this and get back to business. I want Turians, Asari, Salarians, etc. all cooperating and interacting with eachother.

So much f***ing speculation.........from everyone.

Modifié par N7Adept, 21 mars 2012 - 05:34 .

[Taleroth]

cynicalsaint1 wrote...

DranakShadow wrote...

If the Protheans could make the conduit, I don't think it's too far off to say that the current races could one day make something similar.

Exactly - who's to say that if the galaxy didn't pool its resources it couldn't figure out its own solution?

Nobody's saying it's impossible. But that doesn't mean it fixes the problem.

It will still take generations to develop and deploy. 

cynicalsaint1 wrote...

We still have QEC tech at least - so we ought to be able to at least communicate across galactic scaled distances.

  QEC is expensive. And It only operates between pre-designated pairs. It requires a unique pair for every location you communicate with.

ME3 seems to have forgotten this, hwoever. He should not have been able to talk to the Dalatrass or Asari Councilor. Even though ME2 makes the point clearly.

Modifié par Taleroth, 21 mars 2012 - 05:38 .

[N7Adept]

Why should creating relays take soo long? In ME3 we found the blueprints for something that we had no idea previously existed, then, while at war, we were able to contruct a super weapon that arguably exceeds the current level of technology, and do it relatively quickly.

A relay was built by the protheans, they developed their own point A and B network. So it is proven it is possible.

It is not beyond the realm of believing for this story for it to be possible to both build relays and re-establish the Relay network in a relatively short amount of time (years).

[cynicalsaint1]

Some more thoughts I've had regarding the ending choices and the Mass Relays and how things could be made to make more sense:

Control - Represents deciding that the Galaxy will continue to use and harness Reaper Tech. Relays are left in tact. And with control of the Reapers Shepard is able to usher in a golden age for the galaxy. But will Shepard be able to resist using the Galactic Doom Gun forever? Has the Cycle truly been halted or only delayed?

Destroy - Rejecting the Cycle, the Reapers, and their Technology. Kills the Reapers and disables the Mass Relays/Citadel in such a way that we know that we didn't just nuke the Galaxy. Also other synthetics aren't also destroyed for no apparent reason. The galactic community will be greatly lessened by the loss of the Relays - but on the other hand given a chance to evolve naturally.

Synthesis - Still doesn't make any @#$!ing sense.

Modifié par cynicalsaint1, 21 mars 2012 - 06:01 .

[Alpha revan]

Regardless, the Mass Relays are a core component of the Mass Effect Universe... Can you imagine ME without them? Or the fact that the species will be stranded for many many generations? Unless you could coordinate some galactic effort to rebuild mass relays in every system without having to travel to construct them, it would take ages.

Modifié par Alpha revan, 21 mars 2012 - 06:05 .

[rfrombrazil]

cynicalsaint1 wrote...

Some more thoughts I've had regarding the ending choices and the Mass Relays and how things could be made to make more sense:

Control - Represents deciding that the Galaxy will continue to use and harness Reaper Tech. Relays are left in tact. But will Shepard be able to resist using the Galactic Doom Gun forever? Has the Cycle truly been halted or only delayed?

"You will die. You will control them, but you will lose everything you have." Casper Catalyst. Which is one of the most mind blowing statements ever made, unless they call in Neo. 

Destroy - Rejecting the Cycle, the Reapers, and their Technology. Kills the Reapers and disables the Mass Relays/Citadel in such a way that we know that we didn't just nuke the Galaxy. Also other synthetics aren't also destroyed for no apparent reason. The galactic community will be greatly lessened by the loss of the Relays - but on the other hand given a chance to evolve naturally.

Synthesis - Still doesn't make any @#$!ing sense.

No, sorry. I don't buy the destroy. That's wishful thinking more than competent narrative. Its as much space magic as the current endings - what in hell would you think would happen to the fleet hovering earth? And the other places in need of reconstruction, supplies, people, communication, tech? That's nuking, just in another sense of the word. 

Modifié par rfrombrazil, 21 mars 2012 - 06:08 .

[cynicalsaint1]

rfrombrazil wrote...
No, sorry. I don't buy the destroy. That's wishful thinking more than competent narrative. Its as much space magic as the current endings - what in hell would you think would happen to the fleet hovering earth? And the other places in need of reconstruction, supplies, people, communication, tech? That's nuking, just in another sense of the word.

I honestly don't know what happens to the allied fleet - but that doesn't mean the question must necessarily have no valid answer. I mean just saying "Nope. Can't work." is a little silly in my opinion. 

And the fact that reconstruction is going to be hard, and take a long @#$!ing time is part of the point.
I mean really - please - go ahead and point out any time in history where a major war didn't leave its mark on society for decades if not centuries afterwards. Just look at the US Civil War or WWII. You think rebuilding after a war against a Galactic Extinction is going to be easy to rebuild after?

Modifié par cynicalsaint1, 21 mars 2012 - 06:30 .

[Menalaos1971]

As to The Conduit, it was SMALL. The smaller Relays were about the size of the Crucible, and that took the combined efforts of all the races in the galaxy to figure out and gather the resources to build.

As to the Alpha Relay DLC, this made a Relay Explosion being BAD a part of the established lore. When they all exploded basically at one, Earth, Thessia, Palavan, Sur Kesh, Rannoch, Iruna, Dekunna, and every other major world and most major colonies were wiped out, along with the Fleet at Earth.

So, all that is left are remote colonies with no way to coordinate or communicate, since the Relays also were the communications backbone of the galaxy, too. Plus, so you build a Relay in the Sol System. It takes two to work, and the other one has to be at the destination. If you build the second one in the Sol system then you have to fly it under FTL power to its destination, then you need a few thousand more built and put in place.

So, no, the small percentage of people left will not be able to rebuild the Relay network.

[cynicalsaint1]

Menalaos1971 wrote...
As to the Alpha Relay DLC, this made a Relay Explosion being BAD a part of the established lore. When they all exploded basically at one, Earth, Thessia, Palavan, Sur Kesh, Rannoch, Iruna, Dekunna, and every other major world and most major colonies were wiped out, along with the Fleet at Earth.

I agree that this is a problem, and obviously something that needs to be fixed - but that honestly isn't hard.
It just needs to be made clear that whatever happened to them it wasn't the same as whatever happened in Arrival.

Ton of ways this could be done.