258 réponses à ce sujet

[goinggfstalicomando]

I would like to say one thing to bioware thank you for atleast taking a step toward our direction I love your games. Please continue to work toward our hopes thankyou.

[goinggfstalicomando]

Also still holding the line =) for the little blue children

[Thalorin1919]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

OH MY GOD.

*bangs head on desk repeatedly*

This is the first time I've actually gotten angry about this fiasco. I met the ending with silent dismay and conservative disdain, fully supporting retake.

It's strange then that it's the movement itself that has caused me the most anger.

What we HAVE won is acknowledgement from the higher ups. First Hudson, and now the co-founder. It means the issue is important enough to harm their revenue stream, both present and future, and they're concerned over the potential ramifications of alienating most of their core playerbase.

What we haven't won is an honest aplology or even admition that the finale is majorly flawed. Not subjectively flawed, there are a host of random speculative themes people like to bring up that apparently explain everything, but objectively. Plot holes, contradictions without explanation, the lack of an epilogue, inconsistencies, taboo literary conventions, these are things that require attention.

This is a whole lot more PR bs though. Citing unreliable reviews, repeatedly referring to the outraged fans with the plural 'some' , saying they're genuinely surprised by this reaction (I mean, seriously? Are you a bunch of literate morons that you couldn't see this coming?), and the insistent importance of artistic integrity and how well the team have done, are some pretty clear indicators of an attempt to limit the damage in the eyes of neutral parties.

Then there's the ambiguity over what they actually mean to do about. Nothing definite, nothing solid, just some assurance that we should wait until April. Wow, if that's not an attempt to defuse the situation I don't know what is.

This shouldn't be met with quiet respect. As our good friend Mordin on the forums said:

THIS IS THE TIME TO PRESS FORWARD.

Not with vitriol, not with insults against the team, not with flooding the twitter feeds with inane statements.

But really, we need to strike now! Drum up even MORE support for ChipIn, spread the word via twitter and facebook, linking to the google.doc or the Gamefront article, or even JeremyJahns and Angry Joe's videos, tell the press about the positive side of the movement, and for the love of all that is holy, destroy their metacritic user score and Amazon rating! If ever the pressure needed to be kept up, it is now.

Some of you need to really chill out.

For the past two weeks I've seen this movement strive for recognition and altering upon the endings, and you guys just got that from the mouth of the Co-Founder stating that they are doing just this. Change the ending? I don't think that's possible. Alter it so that it's more clear and sensical to the ME universe? Yes, that seems to be what they are doing.

To ask them for an apology is absurd. You actually want a group and/or a person to humiliate themselves by basically saying they just sucked it all up and have them forever remember that? Why don't you give them pointers on how to rectify a mistake instead of making them embarrass themselves. What is an apology going to accomplish? Besides, I've never heard of a person involved in creative entertainment apologizing for their ending. Recognizing mistakes and holes in it is different - apologizing for their work? No. It satisfied them, and they shouldn't apologize for something they saw legitimate. 

Also, I'm sorry, but the critic reviews you call "unreliable" are just as unreliable as the consumer reviews that are giving it dishonest 1/5 stars because of the ending. You can't take one aspect of the game and mitigate a score so that it effects it as a whole. All I've seen is non-constructive review bombing that doesn't help anyone, including Bioware and the motivations of yourself.

You guys need to calm down with the paranoia that Bioware is out to get you. They recognize the frustration with the ending and have said they are working on it - what more could you possibly want? And also, I like how everyone on this forum is all of the sudden either a literary grad who knows every espect of writing and also a PR strategist - coming in with these negative views won't get you nowhere.

In the end, you're just contradicting your motives by disregarding their statements when you are calling for a statement and complaining about how they aren't responding when you just got a response from the top dog. I don't get this. 

[Njald]

There is no visual difference between PR and actual information so don't blame the people tricked by PRspin before for being sceptical now.  
Also, the message is laden with self congratulatory messages. If one thought they didn't do right by their customer, then why would they claim such success? The pat on the back only further speaks to a bare minimum approach and probably not what we are hoping for. 
Not there should be much hope at this point. I think even the indoctrination train have sailed. (I'm mixing my metaphores in hope that game reviers will think this post is art)

[GargamelLeNoir]

Wow, they concede that we're a minority, aggressive to the dev and that we just didn't understand the awesome ending... They also concede that they'll male DLCs. Yeah that's a huge win for us right there.
How about HOLD THE LINE instead?

[RiouHotaru]

GuardianofSouls wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...


1) You ARE a minority.  This isn't an insult, or a belittling comment.  It is a statement of fact.  Even if the people upset with the endings is 100,000 individuals, there are MILLIONS of people who bought Mass Effect 3.  Therefore, while very outspoken, the Retake movement is a minority movement.  Again, not an insult.  The fact Ray recognizes that you're upset is a huge step.

I don't believe that for a minute. Just because "only" one hundred thousand have complained, doesn't mean those millions are in favour of the endings. There would be an easy way to prove this point but there is no way in hell any company would do it; Don't allow a login to multiplayer or even to the EA servers  (main menu) without answering a poll about the endings. You will then see those people are not a minority. And with gameplay data being sent they could even narrow to the poll to make sure only people who finished the game answered.

You are also assuming that in the two weeks from the release, all those millions have finished the game.

Coming out and claiming its a statement of fact with no facts is ridiculous. You have no facts; You're making an assumption that all the people complaining are all the people grieved. When have you ever seen a protest where all those in attendance are all those in support of that cause? See: Egypt. (And that is something far more important than a game.)


Not everyone is going to make a post on the forums or use facebook. Some will just sigh and put the game away; Some just don't have the time or energy. That is probably what BioWare is the most worried about, the people who are on the fringe buying their games who will not after this. As if you look at people like me, I'm still buying their games; and I can't honestly say that I will not buy any more of their games after this, when I haven't even seen whats to come. Usually the big fans, still end up buying the next game.

Then by your own logic, you can't call the movement a "majority" either.  When I speak of Retake, I speak specifically of the individuals who are saying something.  If the people who disagree with the endings aren't saying anything, how can they be counted?  Same with the folks who agree with the endings.  When people won't be counted, how can we say they contribute?

My statement of "minority" is based solely on the people whom I know are speaking out.  And in that respect, I'm not being inaccurate.

[RiouHotaru]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

The movement in absolute numbers is a minority. What it represents is far less cut and dry.

What it represents is a very vocal portion of the fanbase that Bioware pays close attention to.  That's it.  I'm not discounting what you're fighting for, but at it's core, that's what it is.

Certainly not, but user scores are more based on their content rather than their source, like the professional reviews are. 

The universal aclaim is obviously sincere. I personally don't put stock in sources like IGN because they don't actually talk about the ending at all. This is the last game in the trilogy, you'd think there would be a section on it. Few, if any of them, say the ending was a negative. Strange.

 
...User scores are also notorious for being little more than excuses for people to make whatever statements they want about a game regardless of fact.  I've yet to see anyplace besides Gamefaqs (A sad thing to be sure!) where the user scores aren't just soapboxes or stand up comedy stages for trolls.  Also, just because IGN doesn't talk about the endings doesn't mean anything.  Plenty of game reviews talk about the game as a whole product, not about individual parts.  Should any review be suspect if they don't mention a particular portion?

A lot of it IS PR. Citing the number of critic reviews which loved the game and glossed over the ending in an article addressing the disent amongst the part of the playerbase that should matter the most is blatant. Repeatedly talking about the importance of an artists integrity is another. Saying that they're genuinely surprised over the reaction is disheartening if it isn't some amount of PR at least. The fact that the co-founder of Bioware made this statement in and itself is a PR move. Telling people to remain civil and wait until April, whilst still remaining ambiguous over their intent is yet more PR. 
A lot of it is done to try and defuse the situation and make it look much less serious in the eyes of neutral parties. 

The only sincere part is that an actual statement, regardless of content, has been made, it can be taken as a sign that Bioware are taking this very seriously. Whilst an attempt at diffusing the situation, the source of this being the co-founder is a strong indicator that the stakes are high.

...This sentence alone bothers me:
 in an article addressing the disent amongst the part of the playerbase that should matter the most is blatant.

That "should" matter?  So the fans who follow the game via the forum are more important than everyone else?  More important than the media, or the other consumers?  No.  You're all given equal footing, and the fact Ray gives them all equal footing isn't PR.  One group shouldn't be more important than the other.

And telling people they're surprised at the reaction is natural.  They created a work they are very proud of, and people are upset.  That would be a surprise for anyone.  As a writer, I know that feeling.  It's disheartening to write something I'm proud of, then have people say "I hated that, it sucked."  It's something I put time and effort into.

As for them being vague, that's not PR, that's standard policy.  They have no reason to be specific, as it potentially spoils anything they could be working on.  They want it to be a surprise, and it's standard policy NOT to spoil things, no matter what the fans think.  How that equates to PR when it's what you should expect from any company is a surprise.

Honestly, I think people are way hyping up this article and the reaction to it.  We knew they were working on things that they claimed would "change how we felt" well before this message.  That Ray confirms what we were suspecting (That they plan to add and explain what we already have) is just reaffirming what we knew.

[2Shepards]

What I wrote on the ME3 Facebook page

Dear Bioware,


After today's comments from Dr. Ray, I feel like writing to you
directly. I was almost willing to swallow the Indoc Theory just to
excuse the flimsy ending plot for ME3. All of us, almost all of us who
bought the game, love the game, we do very much. You should know that
by now. WE HATE THE ENDING! It was not thought out in a thorough
manner, the VERY existence of the pervading Indoc theory is to excuse
the bad writing and plot fulfillment. And it should be a compliment to
Bioware that your customers, your fans would try to pull you out of the
fire, by microscopically combing through every codex, every scene, every
line of dialogue that concerns the ending to construct the Indoc
theory. To state that I am disappointed is the understatement of a
lifetime. Bioware, its ME team, made promises. I fulfilled my part of
the deal by purchasing ME3, you  then broke your promise.


Hold the line.

Modifié par 2Shepards, 21 mars 2012 - 11:54 .

[Mx_CN3]

He said they'll have news in April. I'll wait until April to decide whether or not I will continue buying/playing Mass Effect. For all I know, they might perform brilliantly, they certainly have a long track record of doing so (with a few bumps and at least one trainwreck).

Though I can't really claim to be a part of this Retake Movement, I just happen to be someone who would like for BioWare to do something about the endings. They changed one set of endings because of leaks, surely they can change another because they are widely reviled?