258 réponses à ce sujet

[Melchiah109]

Uh...nothing in what was said today is new. We've heard it all either through Twitter, Facebook, or BSN. It was just worded differently today. What concession is it they made exactly?

[ArkkAngel007]

Vaktathi wrote...

It's something, and it's definitely appreciated, but, and I don't mean to sound hostile here, it's still defensive/deflective and it feels like there's an element of "how could you not like it...all the big name sites gave it amazing reviews!" in there, unspoken.

It also feels like they still aren't getting what people are taking issue with. This is the *wrong* ending for the game, it doesn't fit, it feels like it's written by a totally different group for a totally different game and I can't see how "clarifications" are going to help that.


I hope the interaction continues. It's a good start.

To be fair, he starts out in his introduction that they as a company can't just play that defensive card.  Yes, he still does it, but I think his point, from what I gathered in the reading, was how the majority (though he said overall) of the product deserved the high praise, which I agree with.  However, to many fans, that ending ruined the rest of that otherwise great experience.

That is something that BioWare needs to focus more on; that a review score on where all the mechanics of the game are considered in a promotional manner is different than the actual experience one experiences, or should experience.

But this is a step in the right direction, and it's closer to confirming our suspicion that PAXE will be the first defining moment in this mess.  At this point, we know that if BioWare has something planned to rectify this issue, they will make a PR show over it at an event instead of a BioWare Pulse episode or a Twitter announcement.  

And judging about how BioWare stands firm on supporting the ending, despite conceding the need to receive criticism, this ending was probably never the real end, which opens a new can of worms that can lead to another debacle if it isn't properly executed.  Assuming this will be addressed at PAXE, this was in all likelyhood the plan all along, and explains the silence.

However, we need to continue our efforts.

[Kreid]

FemmeShep wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

We REALLY should appreciate this, there is a lot of media pieces out there ruined by an awful ending that never got a fix, no matter the fuss. BioWare respect us enough to consider compromising their artistic integrity because we ask them to.
Independently from the endin's quality, so we should respect them as well.

Yes, let's continue to appreciate BioWare, a corporation that sold us a product based on lies, who still fail to acknowledge why fans are upset.

Let's be appreciative that they would grace us with their letters to us. 

It's their product, don't like? Don't buy.

They are not "failing to acknowledge" anything, they know what we want but as rational people, they stick to their guns. It's their work and their vison, regardless of whether you like it or not, not only that but at least they have the guts to acknowledge it wasn't perfect and are working to change it.

Complaints about the ending are completely understable nad legitimate but some people here are dancing on a very thin border of consumer entitlement.

Modifié par Creid-X, 21 mars 2012 - 06:25 .

[j78]

crapmonster13 wrote...

Grasich wrote...

I have little respect for more PR talk. Admittedly, it's about all we can expect at this point, but it's no reason to respect them. Especially with how much he dismisses us.

Hold the line.

This is pretty much how I felt after reading it.  While I do respect the fact that he came out and apologized (sort of) for the ending, it does seem like he was trying to deflect a great deal.  I'm pretty much in full agreement with this Forbes write-up.
http://www.forbes.co...ending-sort-of/ 

I want to believe them but putting the doctor out there could just be good PR . Hold the line

[AlexXIV]

FemmeShep wrote...

I just find it truly bizarre, the kind of reaction fans have to this.

OMG we should be so appreciative and lucky that BioWare writes us. Even thought what they wrote us doesn't actually acknowledge why we are upset.

It's almost, cult like how people are towards BioWare. And this really bothers me, considering they as a company screwed you over as a consumer. Selling their product on promises that never came to fruition. And people are acting like this is okay. Because well..it's BioWare. And we should totally be grateful and honored for whatever they do prior to the release.

What? lol maybe they should be grateful to us, for buying their damn games and paying their salaries.

What are 'we' upset about anyway? I am upset about many things but the 'Retake ME3' movement is upset about much more. There are people who want a happy ending, some want their promised 16 choices, some want that Shepard is alive. I know I just want that the ending makes sense and is not one big joke anymore. That means the synthesis ending needs to go and the organics vs AI ideology needs to go unless they can explain us why an advanced AI would wipe out all organics, and why this reaper AI wanted to prevent it. Because this simply makes no sense. And I hate ending ME with facepalms.

[FemmeShep]

Creid-X wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

We REALLY should appreciate this, there is a lot of media pieces out there ruined by an awful ending that never got a fix, no matter the fuss. BioWare respect us enough to consider compromising their artistic integrity because we ask them to.
Independently from the endin's quality, so we should respect them as well.

Yes, let's continue to appreciate BioWare, a corporation that sold us a product based on lies, who still fail to acknowledge why fans are upset.

Let's be appreciative that they would grace us with their letters to us. 

It's their product, don't like? Don't buy.
They are not "failing to acknowledge" anything, they know what we want but as rational people, they stick to their guns. It's their work`/b] and [b]their vison, regardlessof whether you like it or not, not only that but at least they have the guts to acknowledge it wasn't perfect and are working to change it.

Complains about the ending are completely understable but some people here are dancing on a very thin border of consumer entitlement.

This guy obviously doesn't understand why people are upset about the ending....

[ArkkAngel007]

Melchiah109 wrote...

Uh...nothing in what was said today is new. We've heard it all either through Twitter, Facebook, or BSN. It was just worded differently today. What concession is it they made exactly?

That we will get more information on this matter in April and that work is being done to rectify the situation, and that it was addressed that they need to take in the criticism of fans and not just play the review score card in their defense.

[Fail_Inc]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

As long as its not a new ending. They should fix/further explain/bring closure to the endings already available. A new ending won't fix those problems.

Yeah instead of changing the 3 endings they should come up with more endings and explain the 3 endings more. There are people enjoyed their endings it's not fair if they just remove them.

[angelaideen]

I like what Ray Muzyka wrote. It's what I wanted: more answers and some closure.
We need to stay polite and we must understand Bioware's point of view as they now understand ours.

[Amanthor]

They really are as clueless about the fan base as I thought, let's just mention the reviews the game got from critics over and over until they love our ending.

[MattFini]

Melchiah109 wrote...

Uh...nothing in what was said today is new. We've heard it all either through Twitter, Facebook, or BSN. It was just worded differently today. What concession is it they made exactly?

The fact that this came from the very top, and directly acknowedges the fact that people are unhappy with the ending is pretty damn big. 

[WildcardCharlie]

Personally, I'm done. If they release a "closure" DLC that just attempts to explain away all the plot holes and Retake members buy it in droves, then you're all gullible.

[FemmeShep]

AlexXIV wrote...

FemmeShep wrote...

I just find it truly bizarre, the kind of reaction fans have to this.

OMG we should be so appreciative and lucky that BioWare writes us. Even thought what they wrote us doesn't actually acknowledge why we are upset.

It's almost, cult like how people are towards BioWare. And this really bothers me, considering they as a company screwed you over as a consumer. Selling their product on promises that never came to fruition. And people are acting like this is okay. Because well..it's BioWare. And we should totally be grateful and honored for whatever they do prior to the release.

What? lol maybe they should be grateful to us, for buying their damn games and paying their salaries.

What are 'we' upset about anyway? I am upset about many things but the 'Retake ME3' movement is upset about much more. There are people who want a happy ending, some want their promised 16 choices, some want that Shepard is alive. I know I just want that the ending makes sense and is not one big joke anymore. That means the synthesis ending needs to go and the organics vs AI ideology needs to go unless they can explain us why an advanced AI would wipe out all organics, and why this reaper AI wanted to prevent it. Because this simply makes no sense. And I hate ending ME with facepalms.

IMO no one has the right to be upset and demand something unless it falls under the Consumer argument of: they promised us this and broke that promise.

If you didn't like the ending, because it wasn't happy - then you have no right to complain and demand it as something owed. The Re-take Mass Effect ending mostly consists of those that believe as consumers, they were wronged by BioWare for promising and advertising a product that did not live up to those promises.

No one seriously (at least), should be demanding something from them because they didn't like the ending from a story point of view. They should be demanding something because the ending didn't reflect what was promised. 

Modifié par FemmeShep, 21 mars 2012 - 06:28 .

[mghjr6]

Vromrig wrote...

Respect earned, not commodity for trade, not part of bargain. Respect independent of negotiations.

Bioware must take next step to earn respect. Concede improper ending, rectify, not simply try to re-explain why we're wrong about ending.

Glad to see you chiming in. And I agree.

But there's still a part of me, albeit a small part, that thinks there's a chance this was all planned...

I agree with the Forbes article. It's something many here have said already: That even if it wasn't planned, Bioware needs to run with it.

Again I'll point out that there was originally an indoctrination sequence planned for the end, then Hudson said it was scrapped. So the indoctrination theory fits the way it does for a reason; it was designed to from the beginning.

[Montana]

Most definately a step in the right direction.

Keep Holding the Line.
Respectfully and politely.

[Melchiah109]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

Uh...nothing in what was said today is new. We've heard it all either through Twitter, Facebook, or BSN. It was just worded differently today. What concession is it they made exactly?

That we will get more information on this matter in April and that work is being done to rectify the situation, and that it was addressed that they need to take in the criticism of fans and not just play the review score card in their defense.

Mike Gamble already said that first part on his twitter almost as soon as Retake started up. I guess the last part is new, but not really what I'd call progress. If they actually start doing it, I'll be impressed.

[Vromrig]

IMO no one has the right to be upset and demand something unless it falls under the Consumer argument of: they promised is this and broke that promise.

Entire post disingenuous, filled with miscategorization. Demands not laid. Instead, dialogue engaged. Players making clear: uninterested in participating in further purchases if this is standard of quality.

Expect high quality, got opposite. Like buying car, finding out made by Playskool.

[RedShft]

Lianaar wrote...

Tygur wrote...
It is nice to hear SOMETHING, however I seriously dislike their constant mention of review scores.

Why? They earned those scores. If those scores were not earned you wouldn't be here, you would just forget about the game as a whole. Acknowledgement should be given, where it is due. Constructive criticism shows what is done well, lists what should have been done differently and maybe list possible alternatives.

Review scores are one of the most worthless measures of success. It's sad that developers rely so much on reviews scores that their bonuses, in Obsidian's case with Fallout New Vegas, was TIED to METACRITIC SCORES. This is terrible on so many levels.

Scores are not constructive criticism. Scores are a contrived way of succinctly relaying ones feelings on a particular game. The thing that comes the closest to constructive criticism is the actual review, not the scores. It's almost as if the gaming industry has forgotten how to actually receive valid constructive criticism. It's mind bogging how closely tied this industry is to contrived scores. 

[cardboardarmor]

FemmeShep wrote...

While there may be some truth to this, I still find the reaction fans have to this to be really bizarre. They act like BioWare is sacrificng so much and going out on a limb to write us.

Battered Gamer Syndrome.

But no, seriously, this isn't a 'small concession'.  This is a big ticket voice attached to a statement that could have been written out on a lunch break on Monday, looked over Tuesday afternoon, and primed for public distribution in time for the midweek news cycle - late enough that people aren't ruminating over it all week (not Monday), early enough that it gets seen (not Friday).

I guess what I'm saying is: Talk is cheap.  Mass-distributed press releases are even cheaper.  When something tangible, like say game content, comes across the wire then it'll be a 'concession'.

Maybe then I'll respect that.

[Domoto]

 I can respect that they actually came out and said something, but it really does come down to what was said.

"it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations"

Once again it's as if it's just a group of people having an issue, rather than a vast majority..which is simply not true

"Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they finished playing through it."

So much player control? if by that you mean the 3 choices we got that made everything else invalid then sure. I can understand not being able to predict what fans would feel, but to an extent you can. I respect Bioware way too much to beleive that no one there brought up that this is probably a bad idea.

Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey.[/b] 

To me, and this is of course my personal take on this, it seems as if this is one of (Not the mind you) worst things we could have been given.  To "flesh" out the ending that we were given, is "nice" but the fact still remains that it was an awful ending they went with.  So say they come out and expalin Joker actually picked the team up when you said X, and was getting shot at so he flew away, and the Mass relays didn't kill everything like in "Arrival" because the energy they shot out was not the same. TIM was already on the Citadel because he figured it out first, and Anderson was in a shorter hallway, so he got there faster. All of your crew lived a life on the jungle planet  always trying to escape and getting into some crazy situations, just like Gilligans Island! There is more, and obviously those are the most basic of things, but  I mean is that really what you would want? 

I'm not trying to start a heated argument for who wants what here, but a "fleshed" out ending seems like the laziest and worst thing we could be given.

Modifié par Domoto, 21 mars 2012 - 07:54 .

[Spectre-00N7]

From what I understand, they are keeping their ending and adding in some closure scenes to explain things for us. Will this make me happy? Not at all, but it is far better than the ending we currently have. Too bad we can't get an option to persuade the star kid to give us a chance to prove the cycle wrong.  Sorry for the speculation.

Modifié par Spectre-00N7, 21 mars 2012 - 06:29 .

[DrDark101]

In a nutshell the statement says... "We heard you and we're going to do something about it. We don't know what that is yet, but we'll let you know when we do"

Granted this is clearly designed to appease the fans but that doesn't make it less a good thing. The process of "fixing" the end is only in the brainstorm phase, so we can't expect a detailed outline of what’s being done yet. Wait till Pax to vent if something less than spectacular comes of this.

I too think the Forbes writer mistook the part where the doc was talking about destructive criticism. He's talking about the vitriol and hate speech not the constructive criticisms.

[King_Gabs]

yeah. they should make a new ending and fill up the plot holes... and also don't forget to ask for a free DLC on the ending.

[mghjr6]

angelaideen wrote...

I like what Ray Muzyka wrote. It's what I wanted: more answers and some closure.
We need to stay polite and we must understand Bioware's point of view as they now understand ours.

I've been advocating staying polite for a while now, but I will acknowledge that the more aggressive people have their place in this, too. Sometimes they make us look bad, and folks will judge all of us based on their statements. Sometimes, however, they make us heard when otherwise we wouldn't be taken seriously.