258 réponses à ce sujet

[Menalaos1971]

Bioware has said they are considering making a small concession, maybe. They have DONE nothing, yet, though. Actually, the only thing they've done is delayed doing anything for up to 6 weeks, at which time they could just as easily delay again.

[Wrathra]

Its a lot of PR talk. And yes, we should be respectful and civil toward the developers.

In the end, though, their actions over the next few weeks are much more important than anything they say.

[Lianaar]

Wolven_Soul wrote...
I think that the fact that we are all here voicing our disappointment is proof enough that those scores were not earned.  I for one would not give this game a perfect score even if the endings were wonderful.

And here I do have a request. There are things you hate being done to you, which comes through from the statement, but you still easily do it to others without consideration.

You want to be respected, you don't want to be called minority, despite none having real means to know how players as a whole see the game's ending. No, polls are not representative of all players. They show that a LOTS of people are upset. But they don't prove all people or most people are upset. You want to be heard, you want to be appeased and not talked down to.

Then, what you want to be done to you, do it to others. Respect them, hear them out, don't talk down to them. This thread is about that. Let's continue with the style of the OP instead, please.

[Wolven_Soul]

RedShft wrote...

Lianaar wrote...

Tygur wrote...
It is nice to hear SOMETHING, however I seriously dislike their constant mention of review scores.

Why? They earned those scores. If those scores were not earned you wouldn't be here, you would just forget about the game as a whole. Acknowledgement should be given, where it is due. Constructive criticism shows what is done well, lists what should have been done differently and maybe list possible alternatives.

Review scores are one of the most worthless measures of success. It's sad that developers rely so much on reviews scores that their bonuses, in Obsidian's case with Fallout New Vegas, was TIED to METACRITIC SCORES. This is terrible on so many levels.

Scores are not constructive criticism. Scores are a contrived way of succinctly relaying ones feelings on a particular game. The thing that comes the closest to constructive criticism is the actual review, not the scores. It's almost as if the gaming industry has forgotten how to actually receive valid constructive criticism. It's mind bogging how closely tied this industry is to contrived scores. 

Agreed.  And I was one who relied on those scores far to much in the past.  If Game Informer gave a game a good or bad review I tended to take it as gospel.  Mass Effect 3 has opened my eyes a great deal.  I think they need to stop with review scores, take the numbers out of the equation, and just talk about the game, period.

[Koolgool]

Yes, I found that letter to be a very positive thing for the "Retake Mass Effect" movement. I DO think a lot of fans are still being WAY too insulting toward Bioware; this can be done in a much more civil manner (which a lot of fans are doing correctly, so big thanks to those individuals). Yes, we don't like the ending, and yes they get that. We don't have to bash them for making 15 minutes of bad content when they've made DAYS worth of awesome content.
Fingers crossed that they take our feedback, and change the ending from this: into this: (like Mass Effect 2's awesome ending. Remember that ending?)

The mere fact that they're listening at all should be a testament to Bioware's dedication and love for the games and their fans. It's not all about money to them, even if it might be to the producers. Even if it was so, SO many people go into creating a game that It's utter stupidity to label everyone in one company as caring only about the money. You don't make a series like Mass Effect without a lot of heart. You can't half-ass your way through something like that.

Hold the Line, people, don't shove it down their throats.

Modifié par Koolgool, 21 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[Ubergrog]

Respect only comes when action is taken to earn it. We know noting about this content, or how it will be applied. We just have "Wait until April"

I consider it a ray of hope, but remain skeptical.

[Polat995]

Bioware deserves being insulted. They could do better in 2 years but they had learnt their lesson of being greedy from EA.

[Tritium315]

Words don't mean **** until they actually do something.

[Sc2mashimaro]

I completely agree with you OP. Every little move in our direction counts. It's not "us vs. Bioware", it's about finding a place for our views to meet the Bioware team's - because, in the end, we all want the same thing: an artistic, emotionally satisfying conclusion to the story they are writing. Our goal is to bring them around to our way of thinking, not alienate them with hostility.

[Sc2mashimaro]

Ubergrog wrote...

I consider it a ray of hope, but remain skeptical.

Nothing wrong with being skeptical, but a move in our direction is always welcome news.

[TobiTobsen]

You can't polish a turd.

If they build up their explanations on the current endings I won't be satisfied. But that's just me...

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 21 mars 2012 - 06:53 .

[Reptilian Rob]

Well see, the difference here is that Ray sounded like a robot and not an actual person. Not only that, but he (again) dismissed us as a vocal minority.

Bioware sure does love its fans, eh?

[Koolgool]

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

I completely agree with you OP. Every little move in our direction counts. It's not "us vs. Bioware", it's about finding a place for our views to meet the Bioware team's - because, in the end, we all want the same thing: an artistic, emotionally satisfying conclusion to the story they are writing. Our goal is to bring them around to our way of thinking, not alienate them with hostility.

This. A bazillion times this.

[Funker Shepard]

recentio wrote...

Source: www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/21/bioware-co-founder-apologizes-to-fans-for-the-mass-effect-3-ending-sort-of/

In short, BW have stated they are going to add some content to the ending. What exactly that conent will entail is unknown to me at this time. However, I firmly believe this is NOT something that should be met with hostility, as some Retakers appear to have done.

My interpretation of "constructive criticism" is I think somewhat different from the author of the linked article. I see it to mean "criticism that is not insulting and can be used constructively." I think the fact that BW's public statements have changed over time and moved towards the idea of revising the ending is proof that BioWare is listening and responding to what they hear from many fans.

Is it everything I personally had hoped for? No. But it is something. For me, that means it is not time to sit back and relax but also that it is not time to greet a concession with negativity. Speculation, sure. But not outright negativity. They have reached a hand out, and I'd prefer not to bit it, personally. That will get us nowhere fast.

Frankly, I consider the statement to be a _massive_ concession in the current industry climate. But I'm a lot less interested in different levels of public humiliation, I just want the game to end in a way that stands up to the quality of the rest of ME3 and the trilogy.

[Chank-bw]

I disagree with the OP. I believe the "apology" is nothing but maneuvering. I'll give concession when I get a solid answer, not more deflection. Appearing weak with hope never got anyone anywhere.

I believe that BioWare must make the first actual concession. Not the players. Hold the line.

[clarkusdarkus]

you do realise that the team that gave us the 3 endings and were happy with there creation will be the team that give us the other option, so my question is if they thought originally that the endings would be suffice how the hell they gonna create something that appeases us now? personally i didnt think the game itself was a patch on the other 2 but the endings get most of the brunt. i thought the retake was about the fact our choices didnt matter and not that we want a 4th option.

[Yalision]

I'm proud of Bioware for stepping up to bat with this. I imagine it's very painful for them to have all of the fans who care most about the franchise so upset. I intend to keep holding the line in the mean time until we hear more in April. Thank you very much Bioware.

[The Angry One]

I will not. They are essentially tossing us a bone while refusing to admit they have any fault in this.
I can't and won't respect or thank them for this.

[Sc2mashimaro]

Menalaos1971 wrote...

Bioware has said they are considering making a small concession, maybe. They have DONE nothing, yet, though. Actually, the only thing they've done is delayed doing anything for up to 6 weeks, at which time they could just as easily delay again.

To what end? Nobody will be less mad if we get strung along and Bioware has savvy enough people to know that. Right now, they're trying to find a middle ground, which is a lot of movement from where they were only a few days ago. They have, essentially, comitted to doing something at this point, but that something is non-specific at this point. They've also given themselves a deadline in order to give us an update. These are important steps and very positive for us! Soon it will be our turn to listen and see what we think about their proposed solution. Keep on holding the line!

[Pelle6666]

They might still **** this up so keep giving them your opinions and hold the line!

[Menalaos1971]

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

Menalaos1971 wrote...

Bioware has said they are considering making a small concession, maybe. They have DONE nothing, yet, though. Actually, the only thing they've done is delayed doing anything for up to 6 weeks, at which time they could just as easily delay again.

To what end? Nobody will be less mad if we get strung along and Bioware has savvy enough people to know that. Right now, they're trying to find a middle ground, which is a lot of movement from where they were only a few days ago. They have, essentially, comitted to doing something at this point, but that something is non-specific at this point. They've also given themselves a deadline in order to give us an update. These are important steps and very positive for us! Soon it will be our turn to listen and see what we think about their proposed solution. Keep on holding the line!

I'm sure their PR team is working under the assumption that like most "movements" if you string it out most of the supporters will give up.  Yes, the ultra-passionate core will never give in, but if they convince most that something will happen eventually and they move in, then Bioware wins.

[Sc2mashimaro]

Funker Shepard wrote...

I just want the game to end in a way that stands up to the quality of the rest of ME3 and the trilogy.

Exactly!

[goose2989]

You're right, and I think most of the Retakers are onboard with you. But we are still far from solving this problem, and we have to keep polite but firm pressure on Bioware if we want to be acknowledged

[Panicomatic]

This statement is a wash meant to highlight that critics love the game and to humanize the hard working developers, and at the same time demonize fans.

"Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary."

So who ultimately decides what constructive vs. destructive feedback is, and by what criteria? Instead of PR smear tactics, why don't you just stick to facts.

"Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. " This is all that needed to be said. In April we can re-evaluate if we feel your products continue to stand up to our quality expectations or not. Of course, I have to take this entire statement with a grain of salt, since I have been lied to before.

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2


Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”


Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”


“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”

[DeaconX]

This is the sort of thing that makes me a BioWare fan. Even when I don't enjoy certain design decisions or a story element, what have you... at the end of the day they're not some faceless, pompous game company. They care and it shows. For that, much respect.