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Some of you people should be ashamed of yourself.


160 réponses à ce sujet

#51
HighFlyingDwarf

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MaestroX101 wrote...

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

Some of the response has been unnecessary, but the OP misses the part where Bioware haven't actually done anything to ease the issues that fans have with the game (Apart from the patronising "Don't worry! We are listening to you with our earmuffs on!"). The customer is always right, even if they are whiny scum.


Okay, let's play PR here. What would you do differently post-game release?


I wouldn't need do anything differently, because if I was making the game I would have made sure that this embarassment wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Modifié par HighFlyingDwarf, 21 mars 2012 - 06:41 .


#52
JerZey CJ

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MaestroX101 wrote...

  Even through all of the constructive and destructive criticism (props to all who kept it classy at least), Bioware never turned their backs to their fans. They never shut them down. They never pulled a Gordan Ramsey and said screw off for the lack of a better word.

Because they can't, they're a company and they rely on us and our money. If they told all their fans to "screw off", not only would that be a PR nightmare, they would lose a large chuck of their fanbase and money, which would not make $EA$ happy and they would not allow that.

#53
Gloatie

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I think they muffed the ending.

Still, I can't imagine how devastated some of the team were by some of the reactions.

The reason they are employable and successful is, in part, because they DON'T respond immediately to taunts, insults or simply disappointing criticism.

Regardless of its corporate PR nature, take a cue from Mr. Muzyka's approach. He was obviously upset by all this, but took time to gather his thoughts and emotions. And I bet we won't hear from him from a while again, because he has said his piece for now. He's a grown up.

#54
Degs29

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The fact that they're looking into improving/changing the ending garners huge respect from me.  As high a regard as I held Bioware in the past, I still wasn't expecting them to address the ending.  I can't think of any other company that would put forward the effort BW is to please their customers and fans.

Thank you.

#55
TomY90

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i am glad bioware are acknowledging us and updating us on what is going on now rather than the cryptic messages they were sending out which was not brilliant especially considering some of the posts managed to add fuel to the fire because of being so cryptic at times.

However I do believe bioware will fix it as they seem necessary with the fan reaction to the ending and try to make the ending as good as they can considering they are suggesting they will be sticking with the current ending just improve it.

But i do think some fans should be ashamed of themselves (as you very well noted) that some have acted like bioware did something like the BP oil spill which are not comparable considering one had huge environmental consequences and the other is just upset fans.

I hope bioware know that most fans are not like the ones that are threatening staff, being abusive etc. they are just passionate about the game and I hope they all calm down.

now that at least I know whats going on I can stop wasting so much my time that should be working on university assignments on looking for updates on ME3 (I know I am a sado)

#56
Kajan451

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Capt Shanderson2 wrote...

"Building on their research, Exec Producer
Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content
initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity
for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on
this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between
the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan
feedback we’ve received.  This is in addition to our existing plan to
continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest
assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will,
continue."

If that isn't them saying they're going to actually make a better ending than i don't know what is.


Saying "we are going to make a better ending"?

Basically in the stuff you quoted they offer to explain the ending to you. Maybe adding a few codex entries so you better understand whats going on.

They do want to "keep the original story" and adress the feedback.. so they might as well include a few codex entries and maybe do a little recap scene with the grandfather, explaining the child what happened.

That segment doesn't say "we give you a different ending" that segment merely says "We consider explaining the ending to you".

#57
Namevah

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HighFlyingDwarf wrote...
if I was making the game I would have made sure that this embarassment wouldn't have happened in the first place.

And I'm sure plenty of BioWare employees would be saying the same thing if they were in your shoes.

As they say, talk is cheap.

Modifié par Dry County, 21 mars 2012 - 06:46 .


#58
puppy maclove

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No, its Bioware who should be ashamed for all their lies. Then they wonder and dont understand why everyone is so pissed off.

Take the Multi-player BS we were fed for example.... "That said, SP can still be played all by itself without any kind of multiplayer or third party and you can still get the absolute best ending." Jesse Houston 


:sick:



#59
MaestroX101

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HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

MaestroX101 wrote...

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

Some of the response has been unnecessary, but the OP misses the part where Bioware haven't actually done anything to ease the issues that fans have with the game (Apart from the patronising "Don't worry! We are listening to you with our earmuffs on!"). The customer is always right, even if they are whiny scum.


Okay, let's play PR here. What would you do differently post-game release?


I wouldn't need do anything differently, because if I was making the game I would have made sure that this embarassment wouldn't have happened in the first place.


Your ability to create a better game than Bioware is in question, but not the point of this.

I said POST-game release, what would you do? That means if you made the same exact game with the same exact ending. You received the same exact backlash. At that point, what would you do? Don't avoid the question cause you obviously believe this could be handled in a better way. What is that better way, HighFlyingDwarf?

#60
Capt Shanderson2

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Kajan451 wrote...

Spectre Chris wrote...

This. It is ridiculous to ask for a product for free. A DLC takes up the time and resources of Bioware and they deserve compensation for it.  


So when you order a steak in a restaurant. (and cooking is art too, by the way)  and the waitress tells you how great the steak is with its sidedish of perfectly fried french fries and sweet, tender baby carrots and green peas... and then when you get your steak you actually realize the french fries have been fried in old fat and the carrots and green peas are still frozen on the inside...

if that happens its not your right to demand them to fix it? You have to eat this dish and be happy about it? Because after all the food critic last week was marvelous and since your no gourmet you wouldn't be able to spot the Art that this steak if it would actually come with pointers?

And then... when you finally get to speak to the manager about the issue he tells you "Well, you know our critics were excelent in the news paper and if you want, i can explain the dish to you and why your french fries have been fried in old fat and why your carrots and peas are still semi frozen. Now go and tell your friends and co workers to come here to eat."

If all that happened... it wouldn't be right to demand them to take your dish back to the kitchen and fix your dish? Edit: And you actually think we should pay again for the dish that was served in such a disgusting state? Or at least pay them to take it back to the kitchen and do it right?


Restaurants aren't obligated to take your food back and make a new dish. Most if not all do simply out of sincerity and integrity, but they don't have to.

We have the right to demand a better ending, and they have the right to refuse us if they wish. Or make a better ending but charge money for it to compensate the resources spent on it.

#61
phouria

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Capt Shanderson2 wrote...

A lot of people are now complaining about the fact that it will most likely cost money. They demand a better ending and Bioware gives in. Then they aren't happy with that and demand it be free.
I myself want a better ending and I am more than willing to pay for it, whatever the price may be.


yeah, then they say

"if you make a new ending DLC, you shoulda got it right the first time! we're not gonna play it! you should be ashamed!"

or

"The new endign DLC will suck! we're not gonna play it! you should be ashamed!"

woooooooooooow.

#62
MaestroX101

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JerZeyCJ2 wrote...

MaestroX101 wrote...

  Even through all of the constructive and destructive criticism (props to all who kept it classy at least), Bioware never turned their backs to their fans. They never shut them down. They never pulled a Gordan Ramsey and said screw off for the lack of a better word.

Because they can't, they're a company and they rely on us and our money. If they told all their fans to "screw off", not only would that be a PR nightmare, they would lose a large chuck of their fanbase and money, which would not make $EA$ happy and they would not allow that.


As far as I know, they're currently losing a large chunk of their fanbase because of this. Still seems like a PR nightmare. Compared to the game, Paragon and Renegade seems like the exact same thing. Oh. The irony.

#63
Jacen987

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I agree with the OP. I've never seen people turn into such shameless babies over an entertainment product. While you have the right to your opinions, regardless of how bad the ending is, you people have no right to demand anything out of Bioware, regarding their creative process. And i actually would have supported Bioware, if they ignored and even punished the overblown response.

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, its not how this company works. They've always listened to their fans, even to the detriment of their products. People whined about the RPG and Exploration elements from 1, being to contrived and complicated(Pthh), and "BAM" they were reduced.



Then people whined about streamlining and BW went so far to implement every checkpoint of the "What we want for ME3" thread. Anything and everything wrong with this wonderful franchise, is all YOUR fault. And honestly, i hate you guys and your disproportionate egos for it. Sometimes.

It appears, you're about to get your way again. Just goes to show, all it takes to force these guys into compliance, is a whiny bunch, bent on getting their own way.



Mind you, this is probably good for everyone. EA/Bioware gets some extra cash, a positive reputation and we get a more polished ending. Its just, your attitude makes me sick. :sick:

Modifié par Jacen987, 21 mars 2012 - 06:49 .


#64
Capt Shanderson2

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Kajan451 wrote...

Capt Shanderson2 wrote...

"Building on their research, Exec Producer
Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content
initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity
for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on
this in April.  We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between
the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan
feedback we’ve received.  This is in addition to our existing plan to
continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest
assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will,
continue."

If that isn't them saying they're going to actually make a better ending than i don't know what is.


Saying "we are going to make a better ending"?

Basically in the stuff you quoted they offer to explain the ending to you. Maybe adding a few codex entries so you better understand whats going on.

They do want to "keep the original story" and adress the feedback.. so they might as well include a few codex entries and maybe do a little recap scene with the grandfather, explaining the child what happened.

That segment doesn't say "we give you a different ending" that segment merely says "We consider explaining the ending to you".



I'm 100% sure they aren't referring to a few codex entries. They know what we are asking for, and will give it to us. They always have. That's one of the reasons why I like Bioware so much, they listen to their players and make changes to their games based on what people say.

#65
Siegdrifa

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Sorry OP but there is no promise of optional ending added, nor added contant post game.

Ginving more closure with your LI for exemple before the last mission won't fix anything (at least for me).
I'm looking for closure and answers AFTER the ending, not BEFORE with the same end waiting for me with an evil smile telling me : "you know you are wasting your time right ? hehehe, enjoy the journey, i'll catch you soon enough butterfly".

I do belive that Bioware care, and i still think personnaly they are legit to no change the endings.
But i won't trust that they will "fix" (not anybody think the game need a fix and i wish i could be one of them) it without clear statement as it will be before or after the ending.
Until then, i wont go into silence mode, i intend to keep looking at the forum and comment what i want to comment in civil way.
It's the first from all the Bioware game i own (since BG1) that i can't let it go for reasons i won't post here, it is not a pleasure, and i'm sure Bioware know lot of fan don't get pleasure from that.

#66
Vilegrim

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MaestroX101 wrote...

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

MaestroX101 wrote...

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

Some of the response has been unnecessary, but the OP misses the part where Bioware haven't actually done anything to ease the issues that fans have with the game (Apart from the patronising "Don't worry! We are listening to you with our earmuffs on!"). The customer is always right, even if they are whiny scum.


Okay, let's play PR here. What would you do differently post-game release?


I wouldn't need do anything differently, because if I was making the game I would have made sure that this embarassment wouldn't have happened in the first place.


Your ability to create a better game than Bioware is in question, but not the point of this.

I said POST-game release, what would you do? That means if you made the same exact game with the same exact ending. You received the same exact backlash. At that point, what would you do? Don't avoid the question cause you obviously believe this could be handled in a better way. What is that better way, HighFlyingDwarf?


Release a list of the core complaints recieved, ask if that is correct, then acknowledge that list.    Then give a clear we ARE changing things/ We ARE NOT changing things answer.

#67
admcmei

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jlmaclachlan wrote...

No, its Bioware who should be ashamed for all their lies. Then they wonder and dont understand why everyone is so pissed off.

Take the Multi-player BS we were fed for example.... "That said, SP can still be played all by itself without any kind of multiplayer or third party and you can still get the absolute best ending." Jesse Houston 


:sick:


Yeah, if there wasn't the awful ending I'd say that would be the big thing for me. Can't believe how they still refuse to acknoledge and fix this. If they made an honest mistake (really? really?) now they know and not doing anything (oropenly LYING about it like I'm sorry to say they did) doesn't really give me good reason to trust them right now.

#68
Texhnolyze101

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Im ashamed of you OP very ashamed.

#69
abaris

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I wouldn't attack anyone of them personally. But I'm not personalising a company, and a large one for that matter, either. They are a business, we are customers - that's about all.

And as for the ending, there's still nothing concrete. Everything I have read here and on other sites are the same PR inspired messages that only differ slightly. So if anyone has anything concrete, please link it, because all that it's boiling down to right now is pure speculation.

#70
HighFlyingDwarf

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Objectivity wrote...

Bioware isn't required to make a game that you like. They're under no obligation to give you the ending that you want. It's their job to make the best game they possibly can given the limitation they face. They can't please everyone and shouldn't try; if they did that, their games would look like almost everyone else's.

It's in their best interest to keep customers happy, but giving everyone exactly what they want (if that's even possible) would be boring. Then, all the complaints would be that the game was too predictable.

The biggest problem is that Bioware promised a game that couldn't be delivered on this generation of consoles. They promised branching storylines where the game itself would take different paths thanks to decisions in the last two, instead we got short branches that always fold back to the main trunk. They promised meaningful relationships and realized it's impossible to make that much of a commitment to content only a fraction of the audience will see.

They aimed high, which is great, but they told us where they were aiming and we don't like the compromises that had to be made.

And, not for nothin', following up a property that wasn't just game of the year but quite possibly game of the generation isn't easy.


This

Bioware isn't required to make a game that you like. They're under no obligation to give you the ending that you want. It's their job to make the best game they possibly can given the limitation they face. They can't please everyone and shouldn't try; if they did that, their games would look like almost everyone else's. 


I'm afraid to tell you that Bioware ARE obliged to make a game that I like because I am the person who ultimately will purchase the game. Not IGN, not RPS or any other "paid" critic, I am the most important person in the cycle, me and every other consumer.

Bioware have made many games which I have very much enjoyed, Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2, KOTOR, Dragon Age and of course Mass Effect. Mass Effect 2 was the last game which I bought new from Bioware and for very good reason. Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 were simply not good enough for me to justify buying them new (in fact Dragon Age 2 was so bad that I dismissed it completely out of hand.). You see, I often consult with my friends and play the game myself instead of being led by "pro" reviewers who rely on advertising the very products they review.

The biggest problem is that Bioware promised a game that couldn't be delivered on this generation of consoles. They promised branching storylines where the game itself would take different paths thanks to decisions in the last two, instead we got short branches that always fold back to the main trunk. They promised meaningful relationships and realized it's impossible to make that much of a commitment to content only a fraction of the audience will see. 


How was this unacheivable? The original Mass Effect was a pioneer in next (current) gen role playing games. Bioware pushed the boundary by delivering incredible in game engine cutscenes and immersive dialogue and discussion choices, all helping to make us appreciate our small but capable team of diverse and interesting alien cultures.

Mass Effect 3...well ME3 gives us crappy CGI cutscenes, limited choices and a cutdown roster which resorts to typical sci fi stereotypes. :P

Taken as an action game, Mass Effect 3 is great, the combat is fluid, although I still prefer ME2 because it felt more realistic IMHO. I don't play ME for a action game though, I play it for an RPG, and sadly this seems to have been forgotten by the developer.

#71
MaestroX101

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Siegdrifa wrote...

Sorry OP but there is no promise of optional ending added, nor added contant post game.

Ginving more closure with your LI for exemple before the last mission won't fix anything (at least for me).
I'm looking for closure and answers AFTER the ending, not BEFORE with the same end waiting for me with an evil smile telling me : "you know you are wasting your time right ? hehehe, enjoy the journey, i'll catch you soon enough butterfly".

I do belive that Bioware care, and i still think personnaly they are legit to no change the endings.
But i won't trust that they will "fix" (not anybody think the game need a fix and i wish i could be one of them) it without clear statement as it will be before or after the ending.
Until then, i wont go into silence mode, i intend to keep looking at the forum and comment what i want to comment in civil way.
It's the first from all the Bioware game i own (since BG1) that i can't let it go for reasons i won't post here, it is not a pleasure, and i'm sure Bioware know lot of fan don't get pleasure from that.


Never said an optional ending was promised, but it's been said that Shepard's story will continue, or you'll be able to explore beyond the ending.

#72
Farbautisonn

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You dont get it OP.

We have been told "We are listening" since DA2. Its the boy that cried "wolf". What did you expect? That after being actively ignored we would all of a suddent start believing Bioware? First they tried to get Chris to starve us of. Then they went for Casey. Now Ray has put his rep on the line and really... he is the only one around here that I feel still has some credibility. So Ill cut them some slack. A little. But they have to deliver, and they have to deliver good.

#73
Kajan451

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Capt Shanderson2 wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...

Spectre Chris wrote...

This. It is ridiculous to ask for a product for free. A DLC takes up the time and resources of Bioware and they deserve compensation for it.  


So when you order a steak in a restaurant. (and cooking is art too, by the way)  and the waitress tells you how great the steak is with its sidedish of perfectly fried french fries and sweet, tender baby carrots and green peas... and then when you get your steak you actually realize the french fries have been fried in old fat and the carrots and green peas are still frozen on the inside...

if that happens its not your right to demand them to fix it? You have to eat this dish and be happy about it? Because after all the food critic last week was marvelous and since your no gourmet you wouldn't be able to spot the Art that this steak if it would actually come with pointers?

And then... when you finally get to speak to the manager about the issue he tells you "Well, you know our critics were excelent in the news paper and if you want, i can explain the dish to you and why your french fries have been fried in old fat and why your carrots and peas are still semi frozen. Now go and tell your friends and co workers to come here to eat."

If all that happened... it wouldn't be right to demand them to take your dish back to the kitchen and fix your dish? Edit: And you actually think we should pay again for the dish that was served in such a disgusting state? Or at least pay them to take it back to the kitchen and do it right?


Restaurants aren't obligated to take your food back and make a new dish. Most if not all do simply out of sincerity and integrity, but they don't have to.

We have the right to demand a better ending, and they have the right to refuse us if they wish. Or make a better ending but charge money for it to compensate the resources spent on it.


If said fictional restaurant refuses it, it looses customers. Bioware does also have this option of course, but the thing is... right now they lost customers already.

Offering a free redo is actually in their interest, not in us customers. We already tasted that horrible food. Some might chalk it off as "can happen", some don't... some demand a refund.. some want it redone.

Offering a free dinner is a simple way to ask for a 2nd chance at it. Of course if you just had a food poisoning and get offered to get the next meal for free, well in that case you might be inclined to refuse it. Yet, still... the point remains..

Its valid from us to demand a free redo, just like it was valid to demand a redo at all. Its valid for them to charge money for it.. but that doesn't make it invalid for us to demand it to be free in order to keep us as customers.

Because as it is... i can get my steak in a different restaurant. It might taste different, but at least i won't risk having to taste that horrible old fat and the half forzen sidedishes anymore.


Still if we talk about the validity of demanding a free redo, it remains the same. Its valid. If we are granted such thats an entirely different story and responding that you won't be eating in that restaurant anymore, is just as valid.

It has nothing todo with being ashamed. It has something todo with getting a product you paid for and your inherent right to complain about it if its below the standards you expected it to be.

Its not being entitled, its not unreasonable and its certainly nothing to be ashamed of or wrong. Its your right as a customer and it has to be excersied in order to ensure the people at restaurants don't start selling you C-roach infested food and spoiled meat.

They will eventually if you never complain.

#74
MaestroX101

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Vilegrim wrote...

MaestroX101 wrote...

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

MaestroX101 wrote...

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

Some of the response has been unnecessary, but the OP misses the part where Bioware haven't actually done anything to ease the issues that fans have with the game (Apart from the patronising "Don't worry! We are listening to you with our earmuffs on!"). The customer is always right, even if they are whiny scum.


Okay, let's play PR here. What would you do differently post-game release?


I wouldn't need do anything differently, because if I was making the game I would have made sure that this embarassment wouldn't have happened in the first place.


Your ability to create a better game than Bioware is in question, but not the point of this.

I said POST-game release, what would you do? That means if you made the same exact game with the same exact ending. You received the same exact backlash. At that point, what would you do? Don't avoid the question cause you obviously believe this could be handled in a better way. What is that better way, HighFlyingDwarf?


Release a list of the core complaints recieved, ask if that is correct, then acknowledge that list.    Then give a clear we ARE changing things/ We ARE NOT changing things answer.


What are the core complaints? I've seen A LOT of complaints. 

Again, it's only been two weeks. Not everybody has had a chance to play the game or finish it. Hudson made it clear that the issue would be discussed in greater detail when more people have finished the game. That was about a week ago, a week after the game was released. News travels fast, but resolutions are impossible in that amount of time.

#75
WizenSlinky0

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People are disillusioned. Why should they buy into double-talk and vague promises? That's what many people feel got them to this point in the first place. A lot of people would just like Bioware to be open and honest with what's going on right now. Where the team is leaning. What their "data collection" has brought forth so far.

Honesty is really the only thing most gamers want at this point. If they aren't going to get what they want, they want to know, so they can move on and find a new developers or just play multiplayer or what have you.

Personally, I want something to fix this. I'll remain civil about it and only talk about it in threads dedicated to it. But I can't say I fault people for not taking Bioware at their "word", which if you'll read carefully, isn't really a "word" to fix anything. It's just to do "something". That doesn't calm people down. It's the ones who get excited again that crash the hardest when their expectations aren't met, again.

This isn't to say it *will* or *won't* be satisfying. That remains to be seen. Only that many fans have legitimate reasoning's for being doubtful