160 réponses à ce sujet

[HighFlyingDwarf]

MaestroX101 wrote...

I understand your point. I understand that all this could've been avoided. But your one line that says Bioware isn't doing anything to ease fans means just what it means. We're talking about post-release. Not pre-release.

If it means anything, I completely agree that if the game was made to cater what EVERYONE wants pre-release, then this situation wouldn't be upon us. But since it is, Bioware has to deal with it. The game has been developed. A majority of the fans hate the ending, among other things. Bioware has responded, but you say they haven't done anything, meaning there's a better way to handle the situation. You're obviously not a PR expert, because you wouldn't avoid the simple question of what you would have post-release as far as PR is concerned. If you don't think Bioware is don't their best to handle the situation, keep thinking that. Other people feel the same way. But until you have evidence that Bioware has done absolutely nothing, then your original statement has no validity whatsoever.

Ray Muzyka

Thank you for your feedback – we are listening. 

Chris Preistly

We are listening to all of your feedback.  

Casey Hudson

Your feedback has always mattered.  Mass Effect is a collaboration between developers and players, and we continue to listen 

They're listening but not doing ANYTHING...they're like politicians!

Modifié par HighFlyingDwarf, 21 mars 2012 - 08:21 .

[WizenSlinky0]

MaestroX101 wrote...

The problem with that is people are already worked up. And it's not just the players. It's the media as well. IGN, G4TV, Forbes, etc. You can't google Mass Effect without seeing dozens of news stories about the controversial ending. I personally believe that continually building this up with no response will cause even more backlash. I could be wrong, but it's a situation of damned if you do, damned if you don't. If Bioware doesn't respond AT ALL, loyal fans will say "Casey Hudson has not said one word about this! This is unacceptable!" If Bioware responds, and gives definite answers, but turns out they have to delay for reasons unknown, then there will be responses such as "You lied to us! You promised ending DLC at THIS DATE!"

Bioware seems to be taking middle ground as a safe guard. Either way, there's gonna be backlash. But a company as large as Bioware has to play it safe to get the LEAST amount of backlash. It's not a matter of what they should do. It's a matter of what they HAVE to do.

And giving more of the same stuff helps them how? It just gives people something new to talk about. If they really want this to blow over they need to shut up and stop giving us these messages for people to analyze. If they really want to do something about it, they need to outright say so, and what their current ideas (subject to change) for how to approach it are. Ie, honesty.

I'm not asking for a hard release of any content. Only that they give fans a specific date for some sort of annoucement about their plans. Give fans something to plan for, to look forward to.

Middle grounds will not serve them well. There is nothing "safe" about this approach. It is actually further harming their public image. Which is sad.

[MaestroX101]

Salis777 wrote...

MaestroX101 wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

I love how all these threads are just one guy with huge reply chains about how it's stupid/immoral/shameful for people to be unhappy about products they dislike. It really is a shame for gaming.

You didn't read my original post. I said it was alright to be unhappy. But the some of the lengths that some people went to just to show exactly how they feel is really over the top, even after Bioware has responded, is ridiculous. Be unhappy, but don't threaten anyone. Stay classy.

Bioware hasn't responded, they put out a generic PR piece saying they're looking into it blah blah blah.  Until they do people will feel unhappy.  Call it ridiculous, but you're throwing opinions around about opinions, which is a complete waste of time.

And yes, some people go too far on either side of any argument.  Ignore them.  Thats a complete waste of time too.

That's contradictory. Whether their PR was generic or highly detailed, it's still a response.

[MCPOWill]

MaestroX101 wrote...

 Okay, I get it. Bioware gets it. Most of you were disatisfied with the ending. A lot of people went to great lengths to "hold the line", demanding a new ending. Voicing your opinion. Raising money (I still have my thoughts about that, but that's a different issue), complaining to the FTC, even making unnecessary threats and comments to the Bioware staff. Even through all of the constructive and destructive criticism (props to all who kept it classy at least), Bioware never turned their backs to their fans. They never shut them down. They never pulled a Gordan Ramsey and said screw off for the lack of a better word. They listened, they updated, and they made sure that we all knew that through the midst of everything, our opinion still mattered.

But even after today, the biggest update as far as what Bioware plans to do for the future of ME3, people still make their doubts known, saying "this DLC is probably gonna suck" or "they still won't give us closure", even though Bioware has said numerous times that they want players to have their closure. There are still people who won't even take the time to give Bioware a chance. For one, the game's only been out for two weeks. It takes a LOT longer than two weeks to make any extra content, especially when it comes to voice acting, visuals, level design, and integrating it with the many different possible variables taken from each of the different games. Like it or not, Mass Effect is a complex game, and as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day.

For those that are upset at the ending but have waited patiently for Bioware to come up with a solution, continue supporting them, because everything they do is for the best interest of us.

For those who continue to think that Bioware isn't listening, who think Bioware's customer service is the worst ever, who think that Bioware doesn't love its fans, and who have downright cut ties with Bioware (well, if you're reading this and have said you're done with Bioware, you're obviously still on the forums, right?), what makes you think you deserve any of this? A lot of you sound like whiny little children, one of those Sweet 16 girls that aren't satisfied that their red Escalade isn't blue or that their elephant isn't a unicorn. Do you deserve ANYTHING that you're given with the way you act, and if you believe your words and actions are justified, explain why!

You my good sir, are the voice reason in an otherwise sea of jaded fans and trolls. Props

[AxisEvolve]

MaestroX101 wrote...

 Okay, I get it. Bioware gets it. Most of you were disatisfied with the ending. A lot of people went to great lengths to "hold the line", demanding a new ending. Voicing your opinion. Raising money (I still have my thoughts about that, but that's a different issue), complaining to the FTC, even making unnecessary threats and comments to the Bioware staff. 

It's not fair or accurate to lump these people into the same group together. It's mostly anonymous trolls that have been "bullying" Bioware employees. That is not us. 

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 21 mars 2012 - 08:27 .

[MaestroX101]

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

MaestroX101 wrote...

I understand your point. I understand that all this could've been avoided. But your one line that says Bioware isn't doing anything to ease fans means just what it means. We're talking about post-release. Not pre-release.

If it means anything, I completely agree that if the game was made to cater what EVERYONE wants pre-release, then this situation wouldn't be upon us. But since it is, Bioware has to deal with it. The game has been developed. A majority of the fans hate the ending, among other things. Bioware has responded, but you say they haven't done anything, meaning there's a better way to handle the situation. You're obviously not a PR expert, because you wouldn't avoid the simple question of what you would have post-release as far as PR is concerned. If you don't think Bioware is don't their best to handle the situation, keep thinking that. Other people feel the same way. But until you have evidence that Bioware has done absolutely nothing, then your original statement has no validity whatsoever.

Ray Muzyka

Thank you for your feedback – we are listening. 

Chris Preistly

We are listening to all of your feedback.  

Casey Hudson

Your feedback has always mattered.  Mass Effect is a collaboration between developers and players, and we continue to listen 

They're listening but not doing ANYTHING...they're like politicians!

Again, I refer you to previous posts where 2 weeks is not enough time to actually get anything done, as well as the blog posts on blog.bioware.com.

But in any case, even with the lack of substance, you clearly showed that Bioware has at least responded, which is more than doing nothing, which in turn contradicts your original statement. We can go our seperate ways now.

[MaestroX101]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

MaestroX101 wrote...

The problem with that is people are already worked up. And it's not just the players. It's the media as well. IGN, G4TV, Forbes, etc. You can't google Mass Effect without seeing dozens of news stories about the controversial ending. I personally believe that continually building this up with no response will cause even more backlash. I could be wrong, but it's a situation of damned if you do, damned if you don't. If Bioware doesn't respond AT ALL, loyal fans will say "Casey Hudson has not said one word about this! This is unacceptable!" If Bioware responds, and gives definite answers, but turns out they have to delay for reasons unknown, then there will be responses such as "You lied to us! You promised ending DLC at THIS DATE!"

Bioware seems to be taking middle ground as a safe guard. Either way, there's gonna be backlash. But a company as large as Bioware has to play it safe to get the LEAST amount of backlash. It's not a matter of what they should do. It's a matter of what they HAVE to do.

And giving more of the same stuff helps them how? It just gives people something new to talk about. If they really want this to blow over they need to shut up and stop giving us these messages for people to analyze. If they really want to do something about it, they need to outright say so, and what their current ideas (subject to change) for how to approach it are. Ie, honesty.

I'm not asking for a hard release of any content. Only that they give fans a specific date for some sort of annoucement about their plans. Give fans something to plan for, to look forward to.

Middle grounds will not serve them well. There is nothing "safe" about this approach. It is actually further harming their public image. Which is sad.

As far as I've seen, these same yet more detailed responses have given  a lot of dissappointed people hope at least. Of course not everyone feels that way.  It's better than nothing.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

MaestroX101 wrote...
Again, I refer you to previous posts where 2 weeks is not enough time to actually get anything done, as well as the blog posts on blog.bioware.com.

But in any case, even with the lack of substance, you clearly showed that Bioware has at least responded, which is more than doing nothing, which in turn contradicts your original statement. We can go our seperate ways now.

The blog posts on blog.bioware.com that state nothing more than that Bioware are listening! They've told us that too many times! They have yet to come up with an actual response to the retake movement and the shoddy endings that they have produced!

You're running away from a fight that was unwinnable from the beginning, if the game hadn't been so bad then we wouldn't be having this argument!

Your attitude is shoddy. Stop defending Bioware! They don't care about you...all they care about is your money!

Modifié par HighFlyingDwarf, 21 mars 2012 - 08:31 .

[Farbautisonn]

MaestroX101 wrote...
Again, I refer you to previous posts where 2 weeks is not enough time to actually get anything done, as well as the blog posts on blog.bioware.com.

But in any case, even with the lack of substance, you clearly showed that Bioware has at least responded, which is more than doing nothing, which in turn contradicts your original statement. We can go our seperate ways now.

Responding "We are listening" isnt a response. Its stalling for time at best and taking the mickey out on us at the worst. They said the same after DA2 and Deception.

[WizenSlinky0]

MaestroX101 wrote...

As far as I've seen, these same yet more detailed responses have given  a lot of dissappointed people hope at least. Of course not everyone feels that way.  It's better than nothing.

I don't find hope to be exactly helpful. In fact, it makes things worse if it turns out to be false hope. It's why this middle ground will only hurt people in the end. At least if they outright said they will not be making any substanstive changes, only adding some minor explanations, they would let the most ardent fans begin to move on and accept it. What we're getting now must be a complete emotional roller coaster for the fans that take this seriously.

Any company should already have a basic outline/road map if they plan to do anything about this. Including a cut-off date for feedback. In which case they should already know when they'll be ready to make a decision on this matter.

How hard is it to tell people "We'll be collecting feedback till this date and will make a statement about our plans on this date"?

[MaestroX101]

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

MaestroX101 wrote...
Again, I refer you to previous posts where 2 weeks is not enough time to actually get anything done, as well as the blog posts on blog.bioware.com.

But in any case, even with the lack of substance, you clearly showed that Bioware has at least responded, which is more than doing nothing, which in turn contradicts your original statement. We can go our seperate ways now.

The blog posts on blog.bioware.com that state nothing more than that Bioware are listening! They've told us that too many times! They have yet to come up with an actual response to the retake movement and the shoddy endings that they have produced!

You're running away from a fight that was unwinnable from the beginning, if the game hadn't been so bad then we wouldn't be having this argument!

Your attitude is shoddy. Stop defending Bioware! They don't care about you...all they care about is your money!

Farbautisonn wrote...

MaestroX101 wrote...
Again, I refer you to previous posts where 2 weeks is not enough time to actually get anything done, as well as the blog posts on blog.bioware.com.

But in any case, even with the lack of substance, you clearly showed that Bioware has at least responded, which is more than doing nothing, which in turn contradicts your original statement. We can go our seperate ways now.

Responding "We are listening" isnt a response. Its stalling for time at best and taking the mickey out on us at the worst. They said the same after DA2 and Deception. 

 

Would you two like Bioware to send you a new finished product on a silver platter right on your doorstep at this instant?

[HighFlyingDwarf]

MaestroX101 wrote...
Would you two like Bioware to send you a new finished product on a silver platter right on your doorstep at this instant?

You just invalidated any of the common sense that was in your argument to date with that ridiculous sentence.

Walk away son, walk away.

Modifié par HighFlyingDwarf, 21 mars 2012 - 08:39 .

[MaestroX101]

AxisEvolve wrote...

MaestroX101 wrote...

 Okay, I get it. Bioware gets it. Most of you were disatisfied with the ending. A lot of people went to great lengths to "hold the line", demanding a new ending. Voicing your opinion. Raising money (I still have my thoughts about that, but that's a different issue), complaining to the FTC, even making unnecessary threats and comments to the Bioware staff. 

It's not fair or accurate to lump these people into the same group together. It's mostly anonymous trolls that have been "bullying" Bioware employees. That is not us. 

It's not necessarily saying these groups are associate with each other.

[FemmeShep]

I think the problem here is, some view BioWare as a friend. As someone they owe their trust to. And I get that, brand loyalty etc. But you need to realize that BioWare is a company. And their goal is to make money as well. Conversely, you are apart of the business cycle. You are a consumer. You buy their products if you like it. And if you feel they have failed you, you have a right to no longer support them, or continue to trust them in regards to being able to produce quality products.

In regards to ME3, if people feel they were promised certain features, then they have a right to call them out on that.

So I understand why some feel the need to defend BioWare. To say others are being shameful for being angry and being negative. But as I said, you need to understand that BioWare gets their pay from you. They in a sense, work for you. If no one bought their games, they wouldn't be able to make games. So it's a relationship/collaboration.

This doesn't mean you can demand and command them around. But the same goes for them.

[abaris]

Salis777 wrote...


Bioware hasn't responded, they put out a generic PR piece saying they're looking into it blah blah blah.  Until they do people will feel unhappy.  Call it ridiculous, but you're throwing opinions around about opinions, which is a complete waste of time.

Exactly - and it's good to remind people off and on that there hasn't been anything said that didn't come from PR 101. Too many folks tend to treat these kind of messages like the second coming.

That said, there are also quite many expecting some kind of open statement. That won't happen. None of the executives will show their heads and speak their minds until they have cleared things inside their business. only when they know which road they are taking, there will be something beyond PR statements.

[WaterWar]

Capt Shanderson2 wrote...

A lot of people are now complaining about the fact that it will most likely cost money. They demand a better ending and Bioware gives in. Then they aren't happy with that and demand it be free.
I myself want a better ending and I am more than willing to pay for it, whatever the price may be.

Exactly my thoughts. I will not mind paying for DLC. It hopefully encourages BioWare to release it as they can cover the expenses they get from making the DLC.

[Zanath]

MaestroX101 wrote...

Even through all of the constructive and destructive criticism (props to all who kept it classy at least), Bioware never turned their backs to their fans. They never shut them down. They never pulled a Gordan Ramsey and said screw off for the lack of a better word. They listened, they updated, and they made sure that we all knew that through the midst of everything, our opinion still mattered.

But even after today, the biggest update as far as what Bioware plans to do for the future of ME3, people still make their doubts known, saying "this DLC is probably gonna suck" or "they still won't give us closure", even though Bioware has said numerous times that they want players to have their closure. There are still people who won't even take the time to give Bioware a chance.

As I said in another thread, Bioware is in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't".
And you know what ? They TOTALLY DESERVES IT.

- They outright lied about the content, doing the exact opposite of what they promised (it's just baffling). This is just plain unethical behaviour.
- They actually released some completely nonsensical garbage and considered it was fit to be an ending.

There is NO WAY you can do that and actually get away with it, regardless of your actions thereafter. It's just not possible, because both are totally inexcusable. At best you can lessen a bit the impact, but yeah, everyone will be displeased anyway, because well... YOU BROUGHT IT UPON YOURSELF ?

The only thing that could have made the ending great was if the I. theory was right. It seems that Bioware is starting working on some additionnal content, which means that the I. theory wasn't right. From then on, yeah, nothing can spare Bioware from the negative feedback. And it's WHAT SHOULD BE.

Take a hammer and smash your head. Maybe you can bandage it later, but regardless of what you do, you'll hurt. If you didn't wanted to be hurt, you shouldn't have smashed yourself with a hammer. No way to make the hurt disappear if you were stupid enough to do it before. That's exactly the situation Bioware is in, so there is no point crying about injustice about it.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

FemmeShep wrote...

I think the problem here is, some view BioWare as a friend. As someone they owe their trust to. And I get that, brand loyalty etc. But you need to realize that BioWare is a company. And their goal is to make money as well. Conversely, you are apart of the business cycle. You are a consumer. You buy their products if you like it. And if you feel they have failed you, you have a right to no longer support them, or continue to trust them in regards to being able to produce quality products.

In regards to ME3, if people feel they were promised certain features, then they have a right to call them out on that.

So I understand why some feel the need to defend BioWare. To say others are being shameful for being angry and being negative. But as I said, you need to understand that BioWare gets their pay from you. They in a sense, work for you. If no one bought their games, they wouldn't be able to make games. So it's a relationship/collaboration.

This doesn't mean you can demand and command them around. But the same goes for them.

And suddenly common sense has re-entered my world, thank you for your fantastic post.

[MaestroX101]

HighFlyingDwarf wrote...

MaestroX101 wrote...
Would you two like Bioware to send you a new finished product on a silver platter right on your doorstep at this instant?

You just invalidated any of the common sense that was in your argument to date with that ridiculous sentence.

Walk away son, walk away.

See there, even a quick solution isn't enough for you. You're just a stubborn guy that can't find a decent way to justify your accusations. I've said my arguments, gave valid supporting evidence, and even requested that you challenge me to say that I'm wrong or you're right. You've done neither. All you've done was complain about the product you received and accuse Bioware of not doing anything to fix the "problem" that really isn't anything broken in the game, just something the majority of players find unacceptable. You act like they are laughing in their offices ignoring every single comment said about the ending. If they are, that's a huge slap in the face to me, but why waste time responding and saying you have plans for future content if they have no plans for future content?

What can you do in two weeks time that can satisfy you and everyone else angry at the ending?

[Legbiter]

If the fans had only offered careful and elegantly worded objections to the ending EA would not have done anything.

[Salis777]

Legbiter wrote...

If the fans had only offered careful and elegantly worded objections to the ending EA would not have done anything.

lol quite true

[Farbautisonn]

Salis777 wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

If the fans had only offered careful and elegantly worded objections to the ending EA would not have done anything.

lol quite true

Yep.

[Archer]

MaestroX101 wrote...

 Okay, I get it. Bioware gets it. Most of you were disatisfied with the ending. A lot of people went to great lengths to "hold the line", demanding a new ending. Voicing your opinion. Raising money (I still have my thoughts about that, but that's a different issue), complaining to the FTC, even making unnecessary threats and comments to the Bioware staff. Even through all of the constructive and destructive criticism (props to all who kept it classy at least), Bioware never turned their backs to their fans. They never shut them down. They never pulled a Gordan Ramsey and said screw off for the lack of a better word. They listened, they updated, and they made sure that we all knew that through the midst of everything, our opinion still mattered.

But even after today, the biggest update as far as what Bioware plans to do for the future of ME3, people still make their doubts known, saying "this DLC is probably gonna suck" or "they still won't give us closure", even though Bioware has said numerous times that they want players to have their closure. There are still people who won't even take the time to give Bioware a chance. For one, the game's only been out for two weeks. It takes a LOT longer than two weeks to make any extra content, especially when it comes to voice acting, visuals, level design, and integrating it with the many different possible variables taken from each of the different games. Like it or not, Mass Effect is a complex game, and as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day.

For those that are upset at the ending but have waited patiently for Bioware to come up with a solution, continue supporting them, because everything they do is for the best interest of us.

For those who continue to think that Bioware isn't listening, who think Bioware's customer service is the worst ever, who think that Bioware doesn't love its fans, and who have downright cut ties with Bioware (well, if you're reading this and have said you're done with Bioware, you're obviously still on the forums, right?), what makes you think you deserve any of this? A lot of you sound like whiny little children, one of those Sweet 16 girls that aren't satisfied that their red Escalade isn't blue or that their elephant isn't a unicorn. Do you deserve ANYTHING that you're given with the way you act, and if you believe your words and actions are justified, explain why!

Always been polite and constructive myself and i'll take up your last challenge and justify why some people are still upset.

While more posts from Bioware regarding trying to act on fan feedback and strike a balance are welcome, fans are still doubtful because of two key reasons.

Reason One- their responses are still to vague and open to interpretation. To be fair i can understand why given the backlash. Whats needed is a clear statement that says exactly what their plan is.

Reason Two- Bioware lied to their fanbase to sell this game. Regardless of wether people like the ending or not, several key statements made by the development team of this game regarding the games ending were lies. Thats not an opinion its a fact.

Playing the artistic card, praising the team, telling us about 75 perfect reviews doesnt change the fact that THEY LIED to us.

All that said im still giving them the benefit of the doubt myself. I do take a lot of positivity from Dr Ray's post today I posted a rather lengthy response in that thread, but April will be crunch time for me.

Modifié par eveynameiwantisfekintaken, 21 mars 2012 - 08:52 .

[MaestroX101]

Legbiter wrote...

If the fans had only offered careful and elegantly worded objections to the ending EA would not have done anything.

lol while I agree with your post, my argument is that careful and elegantly worded objections are in fact okay. Wreckless and destructive worded critisims are not. In a nutshell, that's what I'm trying to say.