210 réponses à ce sujet

[Melchiah109]

noob25 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

noob25 wrote...

So you want it changed to what you want?

I want it changed to what we were promised.
The arthouse crowd can keep their grimdark endings. I want other options, again, as promised.

We were promised something other than the end of Shepard's story?

Yes.

[Clayless]

"In my opinion it's not art, therefore Bioware is wrong".

Lolwhut?

[KaMai19]

The Angry One wrote...

I'm sick and tired of BioWare hiding behind this, it seems they've taken the views of hack journalists to heart and are running around calling this ending "art".
No, Mass Effect 3 was art. The ending was like taking a beautiful painting and covering it with tar.
You're not defending art, BioWare, you're defending the tar that covers it.

I don't want to be talked down to and have it explained to me in game just why this ending is deep. It is n ot. It is mean spirited, malicious and cruel. It is thoughtless, hateful and without hope.
It violates the theme of Mass Effect and ruins the characters.

Take a lesson from Bethesda and admit when you're wrong, BioWare. The game is the artistic integrity you must preserve, not this slapdash failure of an ending.

Now, some of you may disagree. Fine, you can keep your ending and I hope you enjoy it, but I will keep fighting for mine. I will not "settle".

As you yourself indicate, art is subjective. To the people who created the ending, it's not tar. It's part of their vision, and since it came from their brain and took a lot of passion and hardwork to create, they're a hell of a lot more entitled than to decide whether or not they add onto it or change it.

That being said, unless the Indoctrination theory gets elaborated on, I'll have to agree with you that the ending is pretty tar-like. That's my opinion. But to say that the people who make a cultural product should betray their own vision to satisfy customers (and therefore publishers)...that's just like saying EA should get to calibrate every Bioware story in order to appeal to the biggest possible market, please the most people, and make the most money. If you discard artistic integrity, then Mass Effect 4 is going to be a Farmville-clone in space, and you're going to be playing it on your iPhone. 

My two credits.

Modifié par KaMai19, 21 mars 2012 - 06:58 .

[l3ol3o]

I have to agree with you. The big catch about this game is the ability to shape your story. YOU got to make the choices. YOU got to choose who lived and who died. YOU got to choose if you were good or bad.

Except for the last 10 minutes of course when all choice was taken away in the name of Artist integrity. This isn't a movie. This isn't a book. You can't compare the ME games to them. This is an interactive experience when the player is the artist.

I read in an article defending the ending that if the players don't like the story in ME, they should buy mad libs. I almost fell out of my chair. ME is what mad libs is to books. The players shape the story! The "Artists" just make the framework in which we operate.

[Tyrzun]

It doesn't matter if it is art or not.

When the artist tells you that in the box is a painting of a tree, they sell you the box, you go home and find out it's a frog. That's wrong! That's what Bioware did.

Promised 16 different endings based on all of your previous choices and that there would be no loose ends. I could point you to all the quotes and promises from the producers, but surely by now you've read them

The art excuse is indefensible because we were told we were getting a very specific thing and didn't.

[noob25]

The Angry One wrote...

noob25 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

noob25 wrote...

So you want it changed to what you want?

I want it changed to what we were promised.
The arthouse crowd can keep their grimdark endings. I want other options, again, as promised.

We were promised something other than the end of Shepard's story?

Don't be a troll. We were promised multiple endings that reflected our actions, endings that didn't end in A, B or C.
You should be well aware of this, if you aren't I suggest you take the time to learn.

I'm sorry if I sound like one.

[yoshibb]

noob25 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

noob25 wrote...

So you want it changed to what you want?

I want it changed to what we were promised.
The arthouse crowd can keep their grimdark endings. I want other options, again, as promised.

We were promised something other than the end of Shepard's story?

"Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending. BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than answers after finishing the game.." - Mike Gamble

"Obviously it's set in the future so you have to make some leaps of faith but we didn't want it to be just magic in space." - Mac Walters

"It's not even any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C." - Casey Hudson

[fish of doom]

in principle, while i heavily advocate civility and tend to dislike emotional overreactions (when i'm not having myself, that is ), i agree. i respect bioware, and i respect dr. muzyka's statement, but artistic integrity was lost the moment the current endings were approved, and artistic integrity now would mean admitting that one made a mistake, and fixing it, not clinging to one's work in the face of criticism. that is not integrity, that is egocentrism.

[JrSlackin]

TheRealMithril wrote...

It's the players story. Sure, they wrote the lines, built the settings. But in the end it is the literary equivalent of handing us a canvas, and a limited set of brushes and colors. Then telling us to "draw something about a geth getting killed" etc.. While they set the stage, we as players actually painted the picture. So not only is there  "tar" on my painting, they refuse to remove it.

Truly come to think of this it reminds me when I was in my drawing class in college the instructor put a cube with an apple on it told us to draw it.

We did, then she said she wanted us to be creative on it. I began drawing vines around it, when she came over and saw what I was doing she said I was doing it wrong. I told her that she said to be creative, but she said not in the matter.

So to me it's similiar you've given someone something to draw, outlined what it is, told them to be creative on the drawing, but in the end you turn around and take said drawing back after telling said person to draw it and finish it yourself.

[KaMai19]

Tyrzun wrote...

It doesn't matter if it is art or not.

When the artist tells you that in the box is a painting of a tree, they sell you the box, you go home and find out it's a frog. That's wrong! That's what Bioware did.

Promised 16 different endings based on all of your previous choices and that there would be no loose ends. I could point you to all the quotes and promises from the producers, but surely by now you've read them

The art excuse is indefensible because we were told we were getting a very specific thing and didn't.

You should be hating the producers and PR people for BSing us. You should get a refund if you have a physical copy and you really felt the misleading quotes about the ending betrayed the other 95% of the experience that did pay dividends. But don't say the writers who conceived this plot don't deserve any say about what happens to their creation.

[The Angry One]

Indeed, in any case if it is art then we are the patrons in any case, and we have every right to influence it.

Still, my point is that BioWare and it's so-called gaming journalist hangers on are fixated on the ending as "art" even though the ending is nonsensical and so tacked on you could literally swap it out after the TIM/Anderson scene and lose absolutely nothing.
BioWare should look at the overall "integrity" of ME3, not just the ending, and see how the ending compromises the rest.

[IST]

superwampa wrote...

The Angry One wrote...



Take a lesson from Bethesda and admit when you're wrong, BioWare. The game is the artistic integrity you must preserve, not this slapdash failure of an ending.

Can someone enlighten me on what Bethesda did? 

Continued Fallout 3's ending to include a new DLC adventure that provided clarity and closure, whilst still maintaining artisic integrity and addressed fan feedback.

[noob25]

Ok I get it, thanks for the reples.

[The Angry One]

noob25 wrote...
I'm sorry if I sound like one.

It's hard to distinguish among the self-appointed white knights and smart alecs around here, apologies.

[Mvin]

The Angry One wrote...

I'm sick and tired of BioWare hiding behind this, it seems they've taken the views of hack journalists to heart and are running around calling this ending "art".
No, Mass Effect 3 was art. The ending was like taking a beautiful painting and covering it with tar.
You're not defending art, BioWare, you're defending the tar that covers it.

I don't want to be talked down to and have it explained to me in game just why this ending is deep. It is n ot. It is mean spirited, malicious and cruel. It is thoughtless, hateful and without hope.
It violates the theme of Mass Effect and ruins the characters.

Take a lesson from Bethesda and admit when you're wrong, BioWare. The game is the artistic integrity you must preserve, not this slapdash failure of an ending.

Now, some of you may disagree. Fine, you can keep your ending and I hope you enjoy it, but I will keep fighting for mine. I will not "settle".

This.

[Vaktathi]

The Angry One wrote...

I'm sick and tired of BioWare hiding behind this, it seems they've taken the views of hack journalists to heart and are running around calling this ending "art".
No, Mass Effect 3 was art. The ending was like taking a beautiful painting and covering it with tar.
You're not defending art, BioWare, you're defending the tar that covers it.

I don't want to be talked down to and have it explained to me in game just why this ending is deep. It is n ot. It is mean spirited, malicious and cruel. It is thoughtless, hateful and without hope.
It violates the theme of Mass Effect and ruins the characters.

Take a lesson from Bethesda and admit when you're wrong, BioWare. The game is the artistic integrity you must preserve, not this slapdash failure of an ending.

Now, some of you may disagree. Fine, you can keep your ending and I hope you enjoy it, but I will keep fighting for mine. I will not "settle".

Indeed, even when one considers a game art, it is art as a product, it is art to satisfy an audience.

At that point, it's form becomes subject to approval and change by
the consuming audience. Standing on "artistic integrity" at that point
has no meaning, because it is no longer art simply for its own sake, it
is art for consumption, to fulfill a desire on the part of consumers. 

When it fails to satisfy the desire, then it fails in its role and purpose as art, and should be changed.

[pjotroos]

Agree OP, everything from that Final Hours app to near identical cutscenes shows it was last minute addition to the game. You can't cry "antistic integrity" if there's no integrity in what we see.

[Lankist]

I can't believe anyone has the audacity to use the "integrity" card when you've got dozens of product tie-ins (such as the EXCITING Razer product line of shamelessly recolored and repainted garbage with an N7 logo on them and an exclusive DLC code, for the low price $40+ each!)

[YeGodz]

Artistic integrity = stuff we like.

Good to know.

[Lugaidster]

The Angry One wrote...

Indeed, in any case if it is art then we are the patrons in any case, and we have every right to influence it.

Still, my point is that BioWare and it's so-called gaming journalist hangers on are fixated on the ending as "art" even though the ending is nonsensical and so tacked on you could literally swap it out after the TIM/Anderson scene and lose absolutely nothing.
BioWare should look at the overall "integrity" of ME3, not just the ending, and see how the ending compromises the rest.

It wouldn't be the first time art is nonsensical. Criticizing the game by saying that the end is not art is a bit over the top. 

[Blackmind1]

The Angry One wrote...

I'm sick and tired of BioWare hiding behind this, it seems they've taken the views of hack journalists to heart and are running around calling this ending "art".
No, Mass Effect 3 was art. The ending was like taking a beautiful painting and covering it with tar.
You're not defending art, BioWare, you're defending the tar that covers it.

I don't want to be talked down to and have it explained to me in game just why this ending is deep. It is n ot. It is mean spirited, malicious and cruel. It is thoughtless, hateful and without hope.
It violates the theme of Mass Effect and ruins the characters.

Take a lesson from Bethesda and admit when you're wrong, BioWare. The game is the artistic integrity you must preserve, not this slapdash failure of an ending.

Now, some of you may disagree. Fine, you can keep your ending and I hope you enjoy it, but I will keep fighting for mine. I will not "settle".

You comment on these forums every second of every day. You are literally in nearly every major post. We get it, you hate the endings, you want them changed. Jesus.

Anybody who hates artistic integrity isn't an artist, nor creative one little bit, or they would understand. 

"Don't allow the crows to tell the eagles how to fly".

[Lugaidster]

pjotroos wrote...

Agree OP, everything from that Final Hours app to near identical cutscenes shows it was last minute addition to the game. You can't cry "antistic integrity" if there's no integrity in what we see.

You can't cry "integrity" if you don't know what it means.

[Clayless]

This entire thread is just nonsense.

[Lugaidster]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

This entire thread is just nonsense.

[dointime85]

Oh artistic integrity is something that I value highly. I just wish they would gain a few more theoretical perspectives on art (most post-wwII-theories say it's not all about the creator) and they wouldn't forget their integrity (i.e. not make false promises).